The Joy of Less, A Minimalist Living Guide - Francine Jay

[TorontoRaptorsFan]

[amazonsearch]The Joy of Less, A Minimalist Living Guide:  How to Declutter, Organize, & Simplify[/amazonsearch]

 

I highly recommended this book in the General Comments suggestion.

 

Like investing it makes you ponder your decisions when purchasing products and the long term effects it can have on your mentally and financially.

 

 

 

 

[ScottHall]

Thanks for this. I may check it out. I personally own no furniture and sleep in a sleeping bag on the floor of my apartment, so this is not a concept that is new to me. A lot of people think I'm crazy, but I look at my bank account and think they're just projecting.

[keerthiprasad]

Thanks for this. I may check it out. I personally own no furniture and sleep in a sleeping bag on the floor of my apartment, so this is not a concept that is new to me. A lot of people think I'm crazy, but I look at my bank account and think they're just projecting.

 

Could you elaborate more on how you got into this style of living and what impacts it has had on your life?  What are the downsides?

[watsa_is_a_randian_hero]

Thanks for this. I may check it out. I personally own no furniture and sleep in a sleeping bag on the floor of my apartment, so this is not a concept that is new to me. A lot of people think I'm crazy, but I look at my bank account and think they're just projecting.

 

How does that help your sex life?

[yadayada]

Thanks for this. I may check it out. I personally own no furniture and sleep in a sleeping bag on the floor of my apartment, so this is not a concept that is new to me. A lot of people think I'm crazy, but I look at my bank account and think they're just projecting.

haha are you serious?

[tombgrt]

Thanks for this. I may check it out. I personally own no furniture and sleep in a sleeping bag on the floor of my apartment, so this is not a concept that is new to me. A lot of people think I'm crazy, but I look at my bank account and think they're just projecting.

 

How does that help your sex life?

 

Not to mention health, general social life, ...

[Liberty]

Thanks for this. I may check it out. I personally own no furniture and sleep in a sleeping bag on the floor of my apartment, so this is not a concept that is new to me. A lot of people think I'm crazy, but I look at my bank account and think they're just projecting.

 

Peter Quinn, is that you?  ;)

 

[MrB]

Thanks for this. I may check it out. I personally own no furniture and sleep in a sleeping bag on the floor of my apartment, so this is not a concept that is new to me. A lot of people think I'm crazy, but I look at my bank account and think they're just projecting.

I've been there. Although in fact it was the floor of someone else's apartment and there were four of us sharing the floor.

Its not as glamorous as it sounds  :D....It's more fun sleeping in a bed.

[ScottHall]

Thanks for this. I may check it out. I personally own no furniture and sleep in a sleeping bag on the floor of my apartment, so this is not a concept that is new to me. A lot of people think I'm crazy, but I look at my bank account and think they're just projecting.

 

Could you elaborate more on how you got into this style of living and what impacts it has had on your life?  What are the downsides?

 

I moved out of my mom's house when I got a job on the other side of the country and was too lazy/cheap to buy anything. Also, I'd never had a job before, so I didn't know if my employer would want to keep me or not, so I didn't want to sink anything more than necessary in just in case they didn't like me. I decided I liked the lifestyle better after I settled in on the job, so I just kept it.

 

What impacts? I can quit my job anytime I want and be out of the state within two hours, so that's cool. I have a lot of discretionary money to invest (I don't have pay television either), buy books with and get snacks with. One thing I don't deny myself is good food, so I eat a lot of Skittles and pizza.

 

As far as downsides... I haven't seen any, personally. My back feels a lot better now that I've been sleeping on the floor than it did when I slept on a bed, which is nice.

 

 

How does that help your sex life?

 

I have no interest in men or women, so I don't care.

 

haha are you serious?

 

Yeah, I've posted a picture or two on here before. It was in a thread about desks or some dumb thing.

 

Not to mention health, general social life, ...

 

Most of my friends are on the internet, and those that aren't are from work. I'll go out with my friends from work for drinks on Fridays - they have beer, and I have Diet Coke. I'm not a fan of alcohol after seeing alcoholism cause major problems in my family. As for my internet friends, I'm in England visiting a few of them right now. I'm sleeping in a sleeping bag on their floor.

 

Peter Quinn, is that you?  ;)

 

 

I have no idea who that is.

 

I've been there. Although in fact it was the floor of someone else's apartment and there were four of us sharing the floor.

Its not as glamorous as it sounds  :D....It's more fun sleeping in a bed.

 

I can't speak for you, but glamor plays no part in it for me.

[Liberty]

Peter Quinn, is that you?  ;)

 

 

I have no idea who that is.

 

Explaining the joke probably ruins it, but there's a recent Showtime series called Homeland. In it, there's this CIA guy named Peter Quinn who is a pretty mysterious character when we first meet him. When we finally learn more about him and see his apartment, it's basically empty except for a sleeping bag and we learn he's some type of black ops operative.

[ScottHall]

Oh and someone give this scott guy a hug.

 

I really don't need your or anyone else's sympathy. I'm better off in life than most.

[stahleyp]

I didn't know who the guy in the picture was either haha. I've heard of the show "Homeland" but I don't have cable. I have a very (relative to most anyway) inexpensive life style. I spend roughly $8,000 a year or so. I really have all I need. I have plenty to buy other things with but I don't really want much else. I eat super healthy, go to the gym a lot and spend a good amount of times with friends/family.

 

Though I do have a house and a bed though but kudos to those that can live even on less!

[matjone]

$8k, damn.  I thought I was cheap.  I would like to see your budget to see how you are pulling this off.  Maybe it would give me some ideas.  What are you doing for phone, transportation, housing, etc?

 

I think ScottHall revealed the secret in not being with a woman.  It's  a rare woman that is going to be willing to sleep on the floor and not have furniture.

[no_free_lunch]

I agree, $8k is a hardcore budget.  What country do you live in?

[stahleyp]

I live in the US. No car payment or mortgage. I bought a foreclosure a few years back and payed cash. I'm on a family plan for phone but I don't have a smart phone. It's $25 a month.My car is a 2003. Gas is roughly $100 a month. I have a penfed credit card that gives me 5% back on that, too. ;)

 

The $8,000 is basically all in but not including federal or state income taxes. It does includes property tax, insurance, etc however. Basically cash that comes out of my pocket after it comes out of my paycheck. 

 

I don't really have a budget though. I buy more or less what I want. For instance, I have a Kindle and a tablet.

I spend about $100 a month or so on food. I use some coupons but not a ton. There are a few coupon sites that tell you about the deals so it doesn't require much time. I try to eat mostly organic or natural foods. Now, a couple reasons my food costs are fairly low is that a) I buy stuff on manager special (haha) and 2) once or twice a week I'll go to my parents' place and much on some things.

 

I never really buy movies and rarely buy books. I'll get them from the library. My gym membership is about $13 a month ($10 a month and a $30 annual fee). I rarely go out to restaurants  - the food is terrible for your mind, body and wallet. The local theater has $5 movies specials on Tuesdays too haha.

[Morgan]

Oh and someone give this scott guy a hug.

 

I really don't need your or anyone else's sympathy. I'm better off in life than most.

yeah but not even willing to buy furniture on the cheap for like 1500$ seems indications of some mental illness. Are you a robot or something? It just seems that even if you have some sort of emotions, sitting in a empty apartment would just be depressing as hell. You can make your place look nice for pretty cheap, so it doesnt seem that money is really an excuse here.

 

I dunno yadayada. I have built most of my furniture (3 bookshelves, desk, shoe stand, tv stand, bedframe) for under $100 or have gotten things for free (sofa). I don't think I'll be spending $1500 on furniture for a long time. There are many ways to live life. Doing it on the cheap to invest saved cash is generally the theme here. He's just saving more. 

 

If ScottHall is happy and content with his setup let him be. There is no need to knock his style.

 

[Liberty]

yeah but not even willing to buy furniture on the cheap for like 1500$ seems indications of some mental illness. Are you a robot or something? It just seems that even if you have some sort of emotions, sitting in a empty apartment would just be depressing as hell. You can make your place look nice for pretty cheap, so it doesnt seem that money is really an excuse here.

 

Why should he do things he doesn't want to do? To please you? If it made him unhappy, he'd make a change. People are different and have different needs. You might want to open your mind to that fact.

[watsa_is_a_randian_hero]

I think that most people find the idea of a person who doesn't have any sexual interests (in men or women) and lives in an empty apartment unsettling because most people cannot relate to a person like that, and people are afraid of what they don't understand.

 

BTW, my annual budget for my wife and I is about $122k.  It would be difficult for me to change my lifestyle to bring that under 100k.  I have a wife (no kids) and live in a city, so my costs are higher than others.

 

stahleyp - don't take this the wrong way, but I think it is calculative "cheating" to not count the true cost of things like housing or car payment.  Just because you don't have a payment doesn't mean there is zero cost to owning.  Depreciation and opportunity costs are real costs.  I don't have a car payment but I include the depreciation cost in my annual budget. 

[Liberty]

I think that most people find the idea of a person who doesn't have any sexual interests (in men or women) and lives in an empty apartment unsettling because most people cannot relate to a person like that, and people are afraid of what they don't understand.

 

Most people, sure. But I thought this was a forum of intelligent free-thinkers who "don't follow the crowd". Surely it can't be that big a surprise that there are asexuals and people not much interested in material things out there?

 

Live and let live, I say.

[watsa_is_a_randian_hero]

I think that most people find the idea of a person who doesn't have any sexual interests (in men or women) and lives in an empty apartment unsettling because most people cannot relate to a person like that, and people are afraid of what they don't understand.

 

Most people, sure. But I thought this was a forum of intelligent free-thinkers who "don't follow the crowd". Surely it can't be that big a surprise that there are asexuals and people not much interested in material things out there?

 

Live and let live, I say.

 

Definitely, to each his or her own, and I'm not passing judgment. 

 

This is a forum that has a lot of free-thinkers and contrarians...but also a lot of people who strive to maximize their personal net worth and professional success.  I would argue that for most people, networking will add to this success, and that for most people, networking would be more easily achieved by not creating an unsettling impression.  I would argue that to a degree, conforming to societal standards and expectations would be beneficial if one's goals involve maximizing net worth and professional success. 

 

However, like I said, I'm not passing judgment and to each his or her own (Can you tell I'm a libertarian?)

[Liberty]

This is a forum that has a lot of free-thinkers and contrarians...but also a lot of people who strive to maximize their personal net worth and professional success.  I would argue that for most people, networking will add to this success, and that for most people, networking would be more easily achieved by not creating an unsettling impression.  I would argue that to a degree, conforming to societal standards and expectations would be beneficial if one's goals involve maximizing net worth and professional success.

 

That's a different topic, but an interesting one.

 

I think it depends. Was Buffett advantaged or disadvantaged by having such a different lifestyle from most other money managers? By staying in Omaha rather than going to Wall Street, etc, some could say he wasn't networking properly and wasn't plugged in the "deal flow" or whatever, but others could say he was avoiding the echo chamber and groupthink and reducing pressure of activity for activity's sake.

 

Later in life he got pretty social thanks mostly to Kay Graham, but in his early decades he was a lot more awkward and isolated, and definitely had a very frugal lifestyle for a billionaire (buying hail-damaged used cars, never moving to a bigger house, not eating anything fancy, etc).

 

I think Michael Burry is also a pretty unusual person, and that seemed to have helped him see things differently and do things that others couldn't be bothered to do.

 

In the end, if you're good at what you do, have integrity and other virtues, people will overlook almost anything. And those who don't, you probably don't care about them anyway...

 

I almost envy Scott, I know that my investing would probably improve if I didn't spend so much time thinking about sex...

[ukvalueinvestment]

There is certainly a class of Value Investor who desires money for the "achievement", rather than material possessions.

 

Chris Hohn, of Children's Investment Fund is another one.  He has donated billions of his fund's profits to charity, to keep him motivated.  He drives a Prius, wears a digital watch, and rents his house.

 

I think I'm right in saying David Einhorn has an average car and lifestyle.

 

Networking is only really necessary if you're not an investing genius.  Someone like Buffett got by fine at first, in small cap land, because there was/is so much opportunity out there if you're good.  Now he has a network of people who bring him stuff.

 

Buffett once phoned up Pabrai (after Pabrai had bought that lunch with him at auction) and asked him for his best idea.  Pabrai gave him Potash Corp.  Months later, Buffett told him he looked into it, but decided against it.  I can't remember why - something to do with not liking its monopolistic nature (I know that doesn't make sense).

[yadayada]

yeah but not even willing to buy furniture on the cheap for like 1500$ seems indications of some mental illness. Are you a robot or something? It just seems that even if you have some sort of emotions, sitting in a empty apartment would just be depressing as hell. You can make your place look nice for pretty cheap, so it doesnt seem that money is really an excuse here.

 

Why should he do things he doesn't want to do? To please you? If it made him unhappy, he'd make a change. People are different and have different needs. You might want to open your mind to that fact.

well i dont really give a shit either way, i am just curious. But you could make the same argument you are making for a crackwhore. Or for someone who is depressed. Or for anyone with mental issues really. People dont work perfectly rational like you say. they can put themselves in shitty situations and lie to themselves that they are perfectly happy. Or that it is the 'best' option if they are trapped in it by their mental issues or circumstances.

 

I met a few people who claimed they werent interested in sex, and I was pretty sure they were all lying to themselves. Because if you really arent interested in women, then their beauty shouldn't phase you much right? And usually it did, and they were awkward as hell around good looking women. And they also appeared sort of frustrated usually with a bit of a short fuse.

 

I also knew someone who was in debt and after a while he started claiming that money wasn't important at all in life. But he was clearly pretty jealous of my situation.  It is more sort of an ego defense system that kicks in after a while after you start to think you will never attain it anyway. You will just make yourself believe that you dont need it.

 

Then there is the person who went through a bad break up, and now claims relationships wont make him or her happy anymore. Can go on about this.

 

There is a large gap between knowing what makes you happy, and what actually makes you happy in the end. And unless you gave it all a serious try, you dont really know what your missing I think.

 

People lie to themselves for lots of reasons. That was my reason for posting that.

[ukvalueinvestment]

Perhaps could have done it without using phrases like "mental illness".

[oddballstocks]

yeah but not even willing to buy furniture on the cheap for like 1500$ seems indications of some mental illness. Are you a robot or something? It just seems that even if you have some sort of emotions, sitting in a empty apartment would just be depressing as hell. You can make your place look nice for pretty cheap, so it doesnt seem that money is really an excuse here.

 

Why should he do things he doesn't want to do? To please you? If it made him unhappy, he'd make a change. People are different and have different needs. You might want to open your mind to that fact.

well i dont really give a shit either way, i am just curious. But you could make the same argument you are making for a crackwhore. Or for someone who is depressed. Or for anyone with mental issues really. People dont work perfectly rational like you say. they can put themselves in shitty situations and lie to themselves that they are perfectly happy. Or that it is the 'best' option if they are trapped in it by their mental issues or circumstances.

 

I met a few people who claimed they werent interested in sex, and I was pretty sure they were all lying to themselves. Because if you really arent interested in women, then their beauty shouldn't phase you much right? And usually it did, and they were awkward as hell around good looking women. And they also appeared sort of frustrated usually with a bit of a short fuse.

 

I also knew someone who was in debt and after a while he started claiming that money wasn't important at all in life. But he was clearly pretty jealous of my situation.  It is more sort of an ego defense system that kicks in after a while after you start to think you will never attain it anyway. You will just make yourself believe that you dont need it.

 

Then there is the person who went through a bad break up, and now claims relationships wont make him or her happy anymore. Can go on about this.

 

There is a large gap between knowing what makes you happy, and what actually makes you happy in the end. And unless you gave it all a serious try, you dont really know what your missing I think.

 

People lie to themselves for lots of reasons. That was my reason for posting that.

 

Ahhh, the Internet....where everyone is rich and good looking...