EBAY - Ebay

[DCG]

To me Amazon doesn't seem to be a competitor for Ebay as their core businesses are different.

 

Amazon sells its own products using mostly prime. Ebay business is third party online business along with bidding.

 

 

Around 50% of Amazon's sales are from 3rd party sellers.

 

 

-3rd parties can be part of Amazon Prime if they're using Fullfilled by Amazon (another huge service eBay does not offer).

 

 

If you are a seller, you generally want to be on Amazon, because that's where everyone is shopping.

 

 

[Investor20]

 

Around 50% of Amazon's sales are from 3rd party sellers.

 

-3rd parties can be part of Amazon Prime if they're using Fullfilled by Amazon (another huge service eBay does not offer).

 

If you are a seller, you generally want to be on Amazon, because that's where everyone is shopping.

 

Thanks DCG for the information and comments. Upon checking the 50% sales are number of items and not by $. One advantage to be on Amazon as you pointed out is it has much higher traffic.  However, Amazon does have many disadvantages too for a 3 Party

 

1) The shipment is made twice - once from 3P to Amazon warehouse & then Amazon warehouse to customer. Amazon has to re-pack them it appears.  Please correct me if I am wrong on these facts.

2) Amazon can do data analytics on 3P sellers and find out which products are selling well with good margin and easily undercut the 3P with better negotiation with manufacturers. If I am a 3P seller this would be my primary concern with Amazon.  Namely I spend a lot of time to identify a product that would sell well with high margin and Amazon can take it away.

3) For Amazon to grow they need high capex compared to Ebay with low capex. Represented by much better ROIC for Ebay.

 

Any comments and corrections very much appreciated.

 

 

[nodnub]

 

Around 50% of Amazon's sales are from 3rd party sellers.

 

-3rd parties can be part of Amazon Prime if they're using Fullfilled by Amazon (another huge service eBay does not offer).

 

If you are a seller, you generally want to be on Amazon, because that's where everyone is shopping.

 

 

Thanks DCG for the information and comments. Upon checking the 50% sales are number of items and not by $. One advantage to be on Amazon as you pointed out is it has much higher traffic.  However, Amazon does have many disadvantages too for a 3 Party

 

1) The shipment is made twice - once from 3P to Amazon warehouse & then Amazon warehouse to customer. Amazon has to re-pack them it appears.  Please correct me if I am wrong on these facts.

2) Amazon can do data analytics on 3P sellers and find out which products are selling well with good margin and easily undercut the 3P with better negotiation with manufacturers. If I am a 3P seller this would be my primary concern with Amazon.  Namely I spend a lot of time to identify a product that would sell well with high margin and Amazon can take it away.

3) For Amazon to grow they need high capex compared to Ebay with low capex. Represented by much better ROIC for Ebay.

 

Any comments and corrections very much appreciated.

 

1)  3rd party Sellers can choose Fulfilled by Amazon (i.e. Product is sent to customer from Amazon warehouse).  Or They can choose to make their own warehouse arrangements and ship directly to customer.  https://services.amazon.com/fulfillment-by-amazon/benefits.htm

 

2) True, and you can see that Amazon has been doing this with low value products using their Amazon Basics line.  I think if you create a brand name you can still beat Amazon Basics. But you are correct, there is nothing stopping Amazon from creating a mid-market brand with better marketing and eat the lunch of a lot of sellers.

 

[DTEJD1997]

Hey all:

 

The braniac dum-dums are up to their old tricks again at Ebay!

 

A). I've got HUNDREDS of listings...most are for 30 days.  As they expire (or sell out), I will adjust the price and relist.  NOPE!  NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!  Today, Ebay forced all of their sellers to move to their new selling interface...as such, I can't relist a lot of my auctions. 

 

What does tech support say?  Simply create a new auction from scratch!  WTF!!!!!  One of my strategies is to create very nice auctions with detailed photos & descriptions.  Sometimes this can easily take an hour.

 

They know and admit there is a problem with simply relisting old auctions...but they can't do nothing about it....

 

I have problems listing, I have problems selling.  Then Ebay has problems getting paid...

 

B). Ebay now allows people to have "guest" accounts without going through a fuller vetting.  Of course, this makes it easy for the fraudsters, ESPECIALLY FOREIGN FRAUDSTERS.  So of course they come flocking to my 16GB RAM kits...half of the darn sales are fraudulent OR turn out fraudulent a week, month later....I get my money from PayPal, but I don't want to see fraud be successful.  I also don't want to have my account shut down if there are too many problem transactions.  What is Ebay doing about it?  How are they protecting the auction ecosystem?  They ain't got no idea...  THANKS GUYS!

 

Ebay is going to chase their greed right off a cliff...

[Investor20]

 

Around 50% of Amazon's sales are from 3rd party sellers.

 

-3rd parties can be part of Amazon Prime if they're using Fullfilled by Amazon (another huge service eBay does not offer).

 

If you are a seller, you generally want to be on Amazon, because that's where everyone is shopping.

 

 

Thanks DCG for the information and comments. Upon checking the 50% sales are number of items and not by $. One advantage to be on Amazon as you pointed out is it has much higher traffic.  However, Amazon does have many disadvantages too for a 3 Party

 

1) The shipment is made twice - once from 3P to Amazon warehouse & then Amazon warehouse to customer. Amazon has to re-pack them it appears.  Please correct me if I am wrong on these facts.

2) Amazon can do data analytics on 3P sellers and find out which products are selling well with good margin and easily undercut the 3P with better negotiation with manufacturers. If I am a 3P seller this would be my primary concern with Amazon.  Namely I spend a lot of time to identify a product that would sell well with high margin and Amazon can take it away.

3) For Amazon to grow they need high capex compared to Ebay with low capex. Represented by much better ROIC for Ebay.

 

Any comments and corrections very much appreciated.

 

1)  3rd party Sellers can choose Fulfilled by Amazon (i.e. Product is sent to customer from Amazon warehouse).  Or They can choose to make their own warehouse arrangements and ship directly to customer.  https://services.amazon.com/fulfillment-by-amazon/benefits.htm

 

2) True, and you can see that Amazon has been doing this with low value products using their Amazon Basics line.  I think if you create a brand name you can still beat Amazon Basics. But you are correct, there is nothing stopping Amazon from creating a mid-market brand with better marketing and eat the lunch of a lot of sellers.

 

Just realized this yesterday while I was making a purchase for a cable.  I was getting much lower prices (including shipping) on Ebay compared to Amazon and it turned out that is because Amazon is giving the search results assuming prime subscription.  So, any 3Rd party seller is severely disadvantaged if not using fulfilled by Amazon.  I would suppose the fulfilled by Amazon for a cable turns out much more expensive because of the double shipping and re-packaging for a low end item such as a cable.

 

There are in fact many articles on web about this, below are couple of examples.

 

I started buying ebay.  Looks like there is a real differentiation between Amazon and Ebay for 3rd party suppliers.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2016/09/20/amazon-prime-propublica-cheapest-prices-algorithm-pricing/90756880/

"The study found that about 75% of the time, Amazon products or those sold by companies that paid Amazon to store and fulfill their orders were in that top slot, even if cheaper options were available from other sellers."

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1844183/amazon-searches-hide-low-prices-to-prioritise-company-and-partners-own-products/

[DavidVY]

ebay has its on problems like kicking out good sellers for 1-2 negative incidents out of 1000s.

 

ebay is buyer-centric but the crux of the issue is that sellers are also needed for a marketplace.

 

I am bearish on ebay.

 

Its become a place to buy cheap Chinese goods and used items. Amazon is a much higher quality platform

[Investor20]

ebay has its on problems like kicking out good sellers for 1-2 negative incidents out of 1000s.

 

ebay is buyer-centric but the crux of the issue is that sellers are also needed for a marketplace.

 

I am bearish on ebay.

 

Its become a place to buy cheap Chinese goods and used items. Amazon is a much higher quality platform

 

I was looking for average order value of Ebay vs Amazon.  There are some data points that are few years old mentioned on twitter and some articles (not very reliable) that both Ebay and Amazon have AOV of about 50$. I would very much appreciate if any one knows the current AOV and can share it.

 

 

 

 

[bizaro86]

Does anyone have any thoughts on what some of the other vusinesses inside eBay are worth? The two that spring to mind as being awesome are Kijiji (basically Craigslist in Canada) and Stubhub. Both have significant network effects and are unlikely targets for Amazon to disrupt, imo.

[DTEJD1997]

hey all:

 

I'm on the phone right now with Ebay/PayPal trying to get a fraudulent transaction worked out.  Ebay claims that now I can't undo the transaction because I didn't refund the buyer.

 

Well, I didn't refund the buyer because Ebay wouldn't let me.  Ebay wouldn't let me undo the transaction, so they said to contact PayPal.  PayPal said they can't do anything about it either....

 

Ebay also knows that they have problems with sellers relisting auctions.  The server won't let a lot of buyers hit the "relist" button properly.  So I can't list hundreds of items.  The only way to list them is to redo the auction (and photos) from scratch.

 

WTF is going on?  The servers don't work anymore?  Nobody knows what to do?

 

They can't undo a fraudulent transaction?

 

I have now wasted over an hour for something that should have taken 2 minutes.  I can't get items relisted.

 

The customer service reps are befuddled & confused.

 

This does not bode well for Ebay. I am sure I am not the only seller that has this problem...

[mbreject]

Their whole resolution process took a big dive after their Paypal spinoff.

[DTEJD1997]

Hey all:

 

Ebay has some very serious problems:

 

I have a certain type of Intel processor that simply can not be sold on Ebay.

 

Why?

 

Every single *&%&^#$ transaction is a "fraudulent" transaction.  In a 10 day period I sold 8 of these $500 processors.  Every single transaction turned out to be fraudulent.  Not a single transaction has turned out to be legitimate!

 

What a mess!

 

I would really, really like to sell some of these things.  I've also got a problem with inventory control....how many do I know to keep in stock?

 

I've had to spend HOURS emailing/talking with Ebay & Paypal. 

 

PayPal is also a mess.  They are having EXTREME difficulty dealing/handling with these transactions.  Their internal accounting/record keeping is a mess.

 

There must be a YUGE amount of compromised Ebay/PayPal accounts.  I very much doubt that all the scamsters have suddenly decided to pick on me.

 

I've been selling on Ebay for 20+ years and have done millions in sales.  I've never seen anything like this.

[DTEJD1997]

Hey all:

 

Time has progressed and passed by.  With that, Ebay is significantly raising fees and generally making things more difficult for sellers.

 

Top rated seller discount is decreasing from 20% to 10%.  Further, you now have to make 95% of your shipments within 1 business day, instead of 90%.  This is a SIGNIFICANT raising of fees.

 

Fees for low rated seller are increasing SIGNIFICANTLY!  If I read it correctly, they are going up 40%?

 

Ebay is also making changes to the auction format which might make it slightly more difficult to list?

 

On the plus side, they are getting rid of 3rd party ads/links which they would put on your listings.  They are also giving small credits for targeted advertising.

 

So two steps forward, and FIVE steps back.

 

Good thing I've got counter measures for most of their horsesh!t.

 

My guess is that sellers are not going to take the new changes very well.

 

 

[DTEJD1997]

Hey all:

 

More retarded idiocy from Ebay this AM.

 

In order to be "Top Rated Seller", you need to have 95% of your shipments within 1 business day of being paid.

 

OK, no problem....I've got MORE than 98% of them within 1 day...

 

BUT WAIT, they now have a "late delivery penalty".  If your delivery agent does not deliver the package within the expected delivery time, you as a seller are penalized.

 

So if the post office does not deliver as quickly as they think they will, you will lose your "top rate seller" and 10% discount (reduced from 20%), and other benefits.

 

Whoops!  That also is not 95% tracking information within 1 day, it is 97%+ DELIVERY on time.

 

Ebay also had a 1 month grace period to get your "ship in order"...but they recently did away with that.

 

So this is just one of Ebay's random ways to kick sellers out of getting the top ranked benefits.

 

If I as a seller do everything I am supposed to, how can I have control over how the post office delivers packages on time?  It is not like I am using "two dudes & jalopy" delivery service.  I have no control over the 3rd parties actions.

 

Incentivize behavior for people over things that they can directly control.

 

Ebay is excellent at generating MONUMENTAL ill will amongst their sellers.  I will step up my efforts to bypass them!

[rkbabang]

Hey all:

 

More retarded idiocy from Ebay this AM.

 

In order to be "Top Rated Seller", you need to have 95% of your shipments within 1 business day of being paid.

 

OK, no problem....I've got MORE than 98% of them within 1 day...

 

BUT WAIT, they now have a "late delivery penalty".  If your delivery agent does not deliver the package within the expected delivery time, you as a seller are penalized.

 

So if the post office does not deliver as quickly as they think they will, you will lose your "top rate seller" and 10% discount (reduced from 20%), and other benefits.

 

Whoops!  That also is not 95% tracking information within 1 day, it is 97%+ DELIVERY on time.

 

Ebay also had a 1 month grace period to get your "ship in order"...but they recently did away with that.

 

So this is just one of Ebay's random ways to kick sellers out of getting the top ranked benefits.

 

If I as a seller do everything I am supposed to, how can I have control over how the post office delivers packages on time?  It is not like I am using "two dudes & jalopy" delivery service.  I have no control over the 3rd parties actions.

 

Incentivize behavior for people over things that they can directly control.

 

Ebay is excellent at generating MONUMENTAL ill will amongst their sellers.  I will step up my efforts to bypass them!

 

It sounds like they are trying to force you to use UPS or FedEx or at the very least Priority Mail, where the delivery times are more predictable.  I can't imagine why though.  That sounds pretty stupid to penalise sellers for the actions of shipping companies this will force sellers to use more expensive shipping options.

 

[DTEJD1997]

Hey all:

 

More retarded idiocy from Ebay this AM.

 

In order to be "Top Rated Seller", you need to have 95% of your shipments within 1 business day of being paid.

 

OK, no problem....I've got MORE than 98% of them within 1 day...

 

BUT WAIT, they now have a "late delivery penalty".  If your delivery agent does not deliver the package within the expected delivery time, you as a seller are penalized.

 

So if the post office does not deliver as quickly as they think they will, you will lose your "top rate seller" and 10% discount (reduced from 20%), and other benefits.

 

Whoops!  That also is not 95% tracking information within 1 day, it is 97%+ DELIVERY on time.

 

Ebay also had a 1 month grace period to get your "ship in order"...but they recently did away with that.

 

So this is just one of Ebay's random ways to kick sellers out of getting the top ranked benefits.

 

If I as a seller do everything I am supposed to, how can I have control over how the post office delivers packages on time?  It is not like I am using "two dudes & jalopy" delivery service.  I have no control over the 3rd parties actions.

 

Incentivize behavior for people over things that they can directly control.

 

Ebay is excellent at generating MONUMENTAL ill will amongst their sellers.  I will step up my efforts to bypass them!

 

It sounds like they are trying to force you to use UPS or FedEx or at the very least Priority Mail, where the delivery times are more predictable.  I can't imagine why though.  That sounds pretty stupid to penalise sellers for the actions of shipping companies this will force sellers to use more expensive shipping options.

 

Forcing sellers to use Fed-Ex or priority mail is simply not a viable alternative for a lot of products sold.  For example, you can't spend $6 shipping a $25 item. 

 

Another problem, is that some of the items that were "late" were priority mail shipments!

 

I think the problem is that Ebay is trying to do business by "trick".  It is obvious that Ebay wants to get rid of discounts for top rated sellers.  If they simply got rid of the discounts outright, there would be a revolt of sellers.  Instead, they simply raise the bar higher & higher & higher.  No problem with that, just be honest & forthright about it.  Don't penalize sellers for things that they can't control.

[DTEJD1997]

Hey all:

 

More goofiness going on at the Ebay!

 

This time, I don't see how they are going to escape legal action...

 

I sold an SSD drive...PayPal flags the transaction as being fraudulent within the hour...The Ebay account of the buyer is brand new, ZERO feedback, and is one of those weird foreign "guest" accounts.

 

PayPal takes the money back almost immediately and informs me.  I am the seller.

 

I then contact Ebay and report the transaction and the buyer as being fraudulent.

 

HERE IS WHERE IT GETS GOOFY.

 

Ebay investigates and shuts down the buyer account and kicks them out.  They admit it is a fraudulent transaction.  THEY ARE STILL GOING TO CHARGE ME A FEE FOR THE COMPLETION OF THE SALE.  There was no sale.  I did not receive any money, the buyer did not receive any product.  The buyer was not legitimate.

 

Ebay is profiting off a fraudulent action.

 

I somehow doubt that I am the only one who this is happening to.  Ebay is vulnerable to a MASSIVE class action lawsuit from sellers being charged for transactions that are not legitimate....

 

 

[Okonomen]

I would like to hear if ebay has upped its game since the last discussion in 2014-2017 about their platform. Has it improved? Their results have indeed improved

[Foreign Tuffett]

This can't be good for eBay's business:

 

https://esellercafe.com/ebay-updates-list-of-states-for-which-it-will-collect-sales-tax/

 

I came across this link on a collector/hobbyist type website. People are definitely paying attention.

[Gregmal]

This can't be good for eBay's business:

 

https://esellercafe.com/ebay-updates-list-of-states-for-which-it-will-collect-sales-tax/

 

I came across this link on a collector/hobbyist type website. People are definitely paying attention.

 

Interesting you mentioned collector/hobbyist stuff as I always thought this is an area where Ebay was Amazon proof. One of the big ones was sports cards and memorabilia. Especially when it comes to high end vintage cards, Ebay has no match. That said I know many times the high dollar exchanges are initiated on Ebay and then finished outside of Ebay.

[DooDiligence]

This can't be good for eBay's business:

 

https://esellercafe.com/ebay-updates-list-of-states-for-which-it-will-collect-sales-tax/

 

I came across this link on a collector/hobbyist type website. People are definitely paying attention.

 

Interesting you mentioned collector/hobbyist stuff as I always thought this is an area where Ebay was Amazon proof. One of the big ones was sports cards and memorabilia. Especially when it comes to high end vintage cards, Ebay has no match. That said I know many times the high dollar exchanges are initiated on Ebay and then finished outside of Ebay.

 

1st edition hardbacks have been a weakness of mine over the years.

I've mostly found them on eBay but occasionally on AbeBooks.

 

I think they've been courting more high volume fixed price listings for a few years now.

[bizaro86]

This can't be good for eBay's business:

 

https://esellercafe.com/ebay-updates-list-of-states-for-which-it-will-collect-sales-tax/

 

I came across this link on a collector/hobbyist type website. People are definitely paying attention.

 

Interesting you mentioned collector/hobbyist stuff as I always thought this is an area where Ebay was Amazon proof. One of the big ones was sports cards and memorabilia. Especially when it comes to high end vintage cards, Ebay has no match. That said I know many times the high dollar exchanges are initiated on Ebay and then finished outside of Ebay.

 

1st edition hardbacks have been a weakness of mine over the years.

I've mostly found them on eBay but occasionally on AbeBooks.

 

I think they've been courting more high volume fixed price listings for a few years now.

 

I sold those once upon a time. I would check biblio.com.

 

Lower seller fees mean you typically get lower prices there, and most booksellers cross-list venues.

 

Also, you can sign up for a free seller account and set a reciprocal discount setting. Then you will get discounts from many/most other sellers.

[JayGatsby]

Interesting thesis from Elliott: https://enhancingebay.com/letter-to-the-board-of-ebay/

[DooDiligence]

Interesting thesis from Elliott: https://enhancingebay.com/letter-to-the-board-of-ebay/

 

Dead link, deserves a bump?

 

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190122005513/en/Elliott-Management-Sends-Letter-Board-Directors-eBay

 

---

 

edit/addition:

 

PayPal checkout has always surprised me with how jarring it's been in the sales process.

 

Will this be better & more compelling for add-ons / bounce backs?

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/01/why-ebay-abandoned-paypal-for-a-smaller-european-competitor.html

 

---

 

is there anything here?

 

Singer is like the anti-halo effect & Klarman came onboard (which I'm not saying is a ringing endorsement.)

 

Still looks decent even with the runup since Jan 2019.

 

Seems like a business that will still be viable in a decade.

 

---

 

Someone keep me from making another stupid decision?

[Castanza]

Interesting thesis from Elliott: https://enhancingebay.com/letter-to-the-board-of-ebay/

 

Dead link, deserves a bump?

 

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190122005513/en/Elliott-Management-Sends-Letter-Board-Directors-eBay

 

75-100% upside is a rather bold claim. Are you buying it? It's not going to be a small feat to restructure management and re-adjust their algorithms to make sellers happy.

[DooDiligence]

Interesting thesis from Elliott: https://enhancingebay.com/letter-to-the-board-of-ebay/

 

Dead link, deserves a bump?

 

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190122005513/en/Elliott-Management-Sends-Letter-Board-Directors-eBay

 

75-100% upside is a rather bold claim. Are you buying it? It's not going to be a small feat to restructure management and re-adjust their algorithms to make sellers happy.

 

Thanks, I get excited about things but have a mandatory 7 day cooling off period.

 

---

 

Food for downside thought from Zacks:

 

Reasons To Sell:

 

Mounting competition from Amazon and Alibaba, increasing investments and a weak global economy are major overhangs.

 

  E-commerce, with a large user base worldwide, has turned out to be a sweet spot with more and more companies jumping into the area and further intensifying the competitive scenario. eBay’s core business faces tough competition from Amazon, Alibaba, Etsy and Facebook. Recently, Facebook rolled out Facebook Marketplace that allows users to buy and sell items within their local communities. Lack of appropriate counter strategies could be a matter of worry in the long run.

 

  eBay dependence on Google for driving traffic is a cause for worry in more ways than one. First, Google makes changes to its algorithms that at times affect traffic to its site (for example the Panda 4.0 update). Second, Google is becoming more of a marketplace itself through its product listing ads and Buy buttons. And while eBay can compete for those, it could have the effect of increasing its costs, since the slots are limited and competition high. Moreover, Facebook is opening store fronts within its app, making it easier for consumers to purchase rather than through a separate eBay app, thus making deeper penetration much more difficult. eBay could have its own store there too, but this could ultimately raise costs again and impact its brand value.

 

  There remains a concern about eBay’s increased investment in overall platform technology and slower growth rate compared to its peers. Furthermore, eBay’s growth continues to suffer due to a weak world economy. The company is heavily dependent on countries outside the U.S for its transaction and Internet sales. Although the U.S. is flourishing, emerging economies are slowing down. So a weak global economy remains a major headwind.