SYTE - Enterprise Diversified

[Tim Eriksen]

I beg to differ that he is getting paid twice to manage the same money.  They are two separate issues it is just that the same person is doing both.  He is getting paid as a fund manager to allocate capital.  He is also getting paid as the CEO which entails a whole lot more than managing the company's capital.  Being in that situation as a part time CEO I can attest to the different use of time.  It is not an overlap.  I suspect you would have no problem if a hired CEO got paid that amount.  To expect him to work for nothing when you would happily pay someone else shows the rationale of your argument is flawed. 

 

     

The company has one operating business- the ISP. The employee in charge of the ISP makes around $35,000, if I recall correctly. The vast majority of the firm's capital is now tied up in various investment partnerships- HVAC, Alluvial, and now Huckleberry. For all practical purposes, this is a Fund of Funds. His salary as CEO is primarily tied to his capital allocation.

 

I think it would also be relevant to disclose that you were one of the select few who was allowed to participate in the second below market private placement, purchasing 10,000,000 shares at $.05 when trades on the open market were crossing well above $.08

 

1. Yes I participated.  That is public record.  I called them, asked about it, met management and then decided to participate.  It wasn't an insider deal.  The offering was under subscribed despite the discount.  I have not heard of anyone not being allowed to participate.  I recognize that it is harder for non-accredited investors. 

2. They do still have real estate.

3. How many 10Q's and 8-K's have you been responsible for?  They don't happen automatically.  You would be surprised at the amount of time that takes.    Let alone employment issues, contracts, day to day management, strategy, board meeting preparation, budgeting, etc.   

4. The market price for common stock was $0.08 when I participated and the market knew they were doing an offering of restricted stock.  Restricted stock is different.  It is not worth the same as long as the restrictions are in place.  If you have ever talked to someone who needs to sell restricted stock you would know they are in quite a difficult situation. 

 

I wish you the best if you still hold or have moved on to something else.  I have been on your side where I am convinced I and shareholders were wronged.  It is frustrating.

[InelegantInvestor]

I beg to differ that he is getting paid twice to manage the same money.  They are two separate issues it is just that the same person is doing both.  He is getting paid as a fund manager to allocate capital.  He is also getting paid as the CEO which entails a whole lot more than managing the company's capital.  Being in that situation as a part time CEO I can attest to the different use of time.  It is not an overlap.  I suspect you would have no problem if a hired CEO got paid that amount.  To expect him to work for nothing when you would happily pay someone else shows the rationale of your argument is flawed. 

 

     

The company has one operating business- the ISP. The employee in charge of the ISP makes around $35,000, if I recall correctly. The vast majority of the firm's capital is now tied up in various investment partnerships- HVAC, Alluvial, and now Huckleberry. For all practical purposes, this is a Fund of Funds. His salary as CEO is primarily tied to his capital allocation.

 

I think it would also be relevant to disclose that you were one of the select few who was allowed to participate in the second below market private placement, purchasing 10,000,000 shares at $.05 when trades on the open market were crossing well above $.08

 

Yes, it has one business now, but he's getting paid to grow and add businesses, correct? 

 

When I took over PDH, it only had one operating business (China) and the Burnaby clinic was shut down.  Now China (I will discuss in the letter, but obvious) is the more troubled business, the Burnaby clinic is operating great and growing, and we have two other businesses...Sequant Re, GOeVisit.com, an investment portfolio (Russell Breweries and other holdings) and real estate development (Kingswood).  And there were probably discussions with four other businesses we didn't close, but were in negotiations with.  So all of that takes a considerable amount of work.

 

If all Kiel is going to do is manage the one existing ISP, then you might be able to make a case.  If he is being paid to grow and add businesses, then he has to receive some sort of compensation.

 

I do think you have a real case with the share discount though.  Doesn't matter if intrinsic value was lower.  If there were bids at around $0.08, you can't issue a nearly 40% discount...it's just not right...even if volume is thin.  Cheers!

So far, he has added 3 investments. All of them are partnerships managed by others where Sitestar seems to be merely a provider of capital.

I don't disagree that he ought to get some compensation. But the structure ought to be approved by independent Directors, and there really are not any.

[maybe4less]

1. Yes I participated.  That is public record.  I called them, asked about it, met management and then decided to participate.  It wasn't an insider deal.  The offering was under subscribed despite the discount.  I have not heard of anyone not being allowed to participate.  I recognize that it is harder for non-accredited investors. 

 

My understanding is that anyone who met the legal requirement (i.e., was an accredited investor) was allowed to invest, not just management's "buddies." It's a bummer that non-accredited investors could not participate, but you can blame congress for that. A rights offering would have been too expensive for a raise of this size.

 

2. They do still have real estate.

 

The HVAC business is structured as a "fund," but is very much an operating business too.

 

 

 

 

[InelegantInvestor]

1. Yes I participated.  That is public record.  I called them, asked about it, met management and then decided to participate.  It wasn't an insider deal.  The offering was under subscribed despite the discount.  I have not heard of anyone not being allowed to participate.  I recognize that it is harder for non-accredited investors. 

2. They do still have real estate.

3. How many 10Q's and 8-K's have you been responsible for?  They don't happen automatically.  You would be surprised at the amount of time that takes.    Let alone employment issues, contracts, day to day management, strategy, board meeting preparation, budgeting, etc.   

4. The market price for common stock was $0.08 when I participated and the market knew they were doing an offering of restricted stock.  Restricted stock is different.  It is not worth the same as long as the restrictions are in place.  If you have ever talked to someone who needs to sell restricted stock you would know they are in quite a difficult situation. 

 

I wish you the best if you still hold or have moved on to something else.  I have been on your side where I am convinced I and shareholders were wronged.  It is frustrating.

 

Tim-

  Thank you for your thoughtful response.

1. I think there is a distinction between the first and second offering. The first granted Mr. Kiel complete control and was entirely unexpected, at least by me. It included no outsiders, to my knowledge. The second was a bit different. Mr. Kiel already controlled over 50% of shares, and had committed more capital than the company had to various funds. That said, I had various discussions with Mr. Kiel and Mr. Moore prior to the second offering and it was never even suggested to me that I might have the opportunity to participate.

2. True, they do still have some real estate, though the vast majority has been sold.

3. I have not, but I understand thy take work. If that's a concern, buy out outside shareholders and go private.

4. I have had and continue to have restricted stock in various concerns. In an illiquid stock like this, the distinction between restricted and unrestricted stock is lessened. I am not technically restricted from selling my shares, but I cannot do so in a short amount of time w/o moving the price drastically. Again, I would also make a distinction between the first and second offering. The first gave Mr. Kiel control, and that should come with a premium.

 

I still have a bit more than half of my initial position, and I will continue to sell opportunistically. I will not hold a fire sale(and I am not the 500K shares that have been sitting on the ask for weeks). I appreciate your well-wishes. I truly hope that the stock goes up here. I don't disagree with most of the investment decisions Mr. Kiel has made. I just don't think that the ends justify the means.

 

[InelegantInvestor]

1. Yes I participated.  That is public record.  I called them, asked about it, met management and then decided to participate.  It wasn't an insider deal.  The offering was under subscribed despite the discount.  I have not heard of anyone not being allowed to participate.  I recognize that it is harder for non-accredited investors. 

 

My understanding is that anyone who met the legal requirement (i.e., was an accredited investor) was allowed to invest, not just management's "buddies." It's a bummer that non-accredited investors could not participate, but you can blame congress for that. A rights offering would have been too expensive for a raise of this size.

 

 

I do not believe this was true of the first offering. In any case, they could have reached out to larger shareholders and gauged interest. I can't say they didn't reach out to anyone, but the never reached out to me, and I was over 2% of outstanding shares pre-offering(which they knew).

 

[Parsad]

One thing I will say.  It's fair to comment on issues when they don't look quite right, but it's also not particularly fair on this type of forum to become accusatory.  The reason being is we are dealing with a public company, and the CEO is somewhat restricted from what he can say, so we may not have all of the facts and circumstances.  He can't just go on Twitter and say whatever the hell he wants...only the President gets to do that!  :P

 

Cheers!

[Sunrider]

Tim he is being paid twice. Whether that's good/bad is a different question. Problem with your argument is that he's being paid to allocate investors' capital as a full time job by his investors and he's getting paid by shareholders to be a full time CEO --- in a business where the capital is now being disbursed and actual 'operations' are in run-down. I don't like that because there's no way he works 2x 100% that he's getting paid for. Looking at it another way, both roles could be seen as capital allocation roles that can be done in 1x100% but then I think it would be fairer to pay him no base for Syte and only a carry on the increase in BV, sustained over, say 3 years (i.e. 3 - 5 year average increase in BV).

 

On the fligpside, the .048 offer was open to all qualified investors if I recall correctly.

C.

 

 

I beg to differ that he is getting paid twice to manage the same money.  They are two separate issues it is just that the same person is doing both.  He is getting paid as a fund manager to allocate capital.  He is also getting paid as the CEO which entails a whole lot more than managing the company's capital.  Being in that situation as a part time CEO I can attest to the different use of time.  It is not an overlap.  I suspect you would have no problem if a hired CEO got paid that amount.  To expect him to work for nothing when you would happily pay someone else shows the rationale of your argument is flawed. 

 

   

[ScottHall]

 

I don't feel comfortable saying more, except that the reason I found it interesting had nothing to do with location necessarily.

 

Cryptic.

 

Sorry, don't want to dish on other people's deals with potentially outdated info. Just thought people would benefit from some knowledge from someone who has met & briefly worked with Sean Sun, etc.

 

Sean Sun is a really bright guy. He's a good growth investor but also has a great value skill set. He doesn't (or didn't) shy away from esoteric things; he found the Walker's Manual quite fascinating, for instance. There are smart people on both sides of this deal and if I had to guess, it'll work out very well for all involved.

Understood.

 

Reading the full filing, this doesn't seem like the deal I heard of previously. So no clue on economics.

 

Everything I said about Sean Sun stands, though.

[Parsad]

Tim he is being paid twice. Whether that's good/bad is a different question. Problem with your argument is that he's being paid to allocate investors' capital as a full time job by his investors and he's getting paid by shareholders to be a full time CEO --- in a business where the capital is now being disbursed and actual 'operations' are in run-down. I don't like that because there's no way he works 2x 100% that he's getting paid for. Looking at it another way, both roles could be seen as capital allocation roles that can be done in 1x100% but then I think it would be fairer to pay him no base for Syte and only a carry on the increase in BV, sustained over, say 3 years (i.e. 3 - 5 year average increase in BV).

 

On the fligpside, the .048 offer was open to all qualified investors if I recall correctly.

C.

 

 

I beg to differ that he is getting paid twice to manage the same money.  They are two separate issues it is just that the same person is doing both.  He is getting paid as a fund manager to allocate capital.  He is also getting paid as the CEO which entails a whole lot more than managing the company's capital.  Being in that situation as a part time CEO I can attest to the different use of time.  It is not an overlap.  I suspect you would have no problem if a hired CEO got paid that amount.  To expect him to work for nothing when you would happily pay someone else shows the rationale of your argument is flawed. 

 

   

 

Not necessarily true.  I can't speak for what is happening at Sitestar, as I don't know the facts fully, and I'm not there watching operations daily.  But speaking for myself:

 

- I'm in the office from 10am to 7-8pm most days, unless I have meetings downtown...about 70% of that time is PDH and 30% is CMC. 

- I'm also up around 8am to check emails and quick calls before I head to the office. 

- When I get home usually around 7:30-8:30pm, I have dinner, put on hockey while I read 10-Q's & 10-K's, run screens, look for ideas, etc for CMC, answer emails till 1-2am. 

- Then I'm also usually in the office one day on the weekend for at least 6-8 hours (usually Saturdays) and then I'm working for 3-4 hours on Sunday from my home office on CMC stuff while football is on. 

- I go into the office on holiday Mondays, even when the building is closed to staff.

- I don't really take vacations...usually I add one day here or there on business trips.

- I generally eat a late breakfast at 11am and a late lunch at around 3pm...all on my desk, unless someone wants a lunch meeting...but I prefer coffee meetings so I don't waste much time.

 

Now that I actually think about what I do, I work pretty f**king hard!  And at times it feels like it.  But most of the time, I feel very fortunate doing what I'm doing and I love it.  That being said, if anyone begrudges me taking a fixed $99,000 salary because I'm CEO, even though I control a lot of the stock, they can bugger off. 

 

I get some 60-70 emails a day...sit on 4 corporate boards...2 charitable boards...usually 4-8 calls a day...7 full-time staff and another 14 staff through associate investments we are involved with...4 public earnings filings a year, a public company audit, two fund audits, numerous press releases, filings, statements...payroll and payable twice a month...8 corporate tax returns, two fund tax returns, two general partner tax returns, CMC's tax return...contracts, agreements, settlements, other legal documents...audit committee meetings, corporate governance meetings...networking events, annual PDH FFH dinner, company events, Pabrai Funds meeting...meetings with potential investments, business consultants bringing a potential acquisition, meetings with young managers, business people, CoBF readers, etc...the list can go on and on.  Wow!

 

Cheers!

[InelegantInvestor]

One thing I will say.  It's fair to comment on issues when they don't look quite right, but it's also not particularly fair on this type of forum to become accusatory.  The reason being is we are dealing with a public company, and the CEO is somewhat restricted from what he can say, so we may not have all of the facts and circumstances.  He can't just go on Twitter and say whatever the hell he wants...only the President gets to do that!  :P

 

Cheers!

I hope I have not crossed the line here. I purposely did not share my thoughts here in the first place, and only responded after others began to discuss what I had said elsewhere. I understand that Steven is somewhat restricted(though he has commented on some of these issues on this thread in the past). Of course, the other side of being a public CEO and having shareholders is that ones actions are open to public discussion and scrutiny. Hiding behind the idea that shareholders do not know all the facts is paternalistic and unfair. We may not know all the facts, but ultimately, we are the owners.

[InelegantInvestor]

On the fligpside, the .048 offer was open to all qualified investors if I recall correctly.

C.

 

I do not believe this to be the case. Please show me that it is, so that I can correct my public statements, if necessary.

 

[rkbabang]

On the fligpside, the .048 offer was open to all qualified investors if I recall correctly.

C.

 

I do not believe this to be the case. Please show me that it is, so that I can correct my public statements, if necessary.

 

 

I don't have the time to read through the filings to find it, but IIRC, there was an SEC filing which basically said that the offer was underfunded and that they were not going to advertise or promote it which was at least implying that accredited investors could contact them for info.  I haven't because I have the same misgivings as you do about the first offering where he took control and I already own almost a million shares.  I'm not sure I want to invest another $25K in this company. If the minimum investment was lower I might have.  I'm holding for now, because I like a lot of what they are doing, and, of course, I can't sell too much without effecting the price.

 

[InelegantInvestor]

On the fligpside, the .048 offer was open to all qualified investors if I recall correctly.

C.

 

I do not believe this to be the case. Please show me that it is, so that I can correct my public statements, if necessary.

 

 

I don't have the time to read through the filings to find it, but IIRC, there was an SEC filing which basically said that the offer was underfunded and that they were not going to advertise or promote it which was at least implying that accredited investors could contact them for info.  I haven't because I have the same misgivings as you do about the first offering where he took control and I already own almost a million shares.  I'm not sure I want to invest another $25K in this company. If the minimum investment was lower I might have.  I'm holding for now, because I like a lot of what they are doing, and, of course, I can't sell too much without effecting the price.

 

Thought you meant the first offering. The second was at $.05.

[oddballstocks]

On the fligpside, the .048 offer was open to all qualified investors if I recall correctly.

C.

 

I do not believe this to be the case. Please show me that it is, so that I can correct my public statements, if necessary.

 

It's true, I contacted them and was sent subscription information.  There are rules about companies soliciting for rights offerings.

 

I'm watching something similar in Aztec Land and Cattle.  They held a rights offering last year, and one this year.  To an outside observer it's just happening.  There are 'special' stockholders who are backstopping it.  But I also know that anyone accredited can subscribe, but you need to call the company and let them know you're interested.  The backstock shareholders were just a few individuals who were in contact with the company and in a position to move on this.

 

I'll say this on the situation.  I think optics matter, Inelegant from your vantage point you have a lot of well founded points and I understand your perspective.  I've also seen how the sausage is made so to speak and see the other side.

 

If this was a vanilla company where I didn't know the people involved personally I'd be very worried about perceived red flags.  But after seeing behind the curtain I understand what's going on and I don't have the same view.

 

I don't want to speak for Steve, but I think they're doing their own filings.  My guess is they're overly conservative in what they're releasing because they don't want to find themselves in a legal nightmare regarding disclosure.

 

In the end everyone needs to make their own decisions.  I agree with Sanjeev that most outside investors underestimate the amount of work anyone running a company has to do.  It's easy to pick apart what a company is doing from afar, but when actually in the weeds it's difficult to keep all the balls in motion.

[rkbabang]

On the fligpside, the .048 offer was open to all qualified investors if I recall correctly.

C.

 

I do not believe this to be the case. Please show me that it is, so that I can correct my public statements, if necessary.

 

 

I don't have the time to read through the filings to find it, but IIRC, there was an SEC filing which basically said that the offer was underfunded and that they were not going to advertise or promote it which was at least implying that accredited investors could contact them for info.  I haven't because I have the same misgivings as you do about the first offering where he took control and I already own almost a million shares.  I'm not sure I want to invest another $25K in this company. If the minimum investment was lower I might have.  I'm holding for now, because I like a lot of what they are doing, and, of course, I can't sell too much without effecting the price.

 

Thought you meant the first offering. The second was at $.05.

 

Yes, you are correct I didn't think the first offering was open to anyone, just the second. And it was at $0.05, still way under market.

 

[InelegantInvestor]

On the fligpside, the .048 offer was open to all qualified investors if I recall correctly.

C.

 

I do not believe this to be the case. Please show me that it is, so that I can correct my public statements, if necessary.

 

It's true, I contacted them and was sent subscription information.  There are rules about companies soliciting for rights offerings.

 

I'm watching something similar in Aztec Land and Cattle.  They held a rights offering last year, and one this year.  To an outside observer it's just happening.  There are 'special' stockholders who are backstopping it.  But I also know that anyone accredited can subscribe, but you need to call the company and let them know you're interested.  The backstock shareholders were just a few individuals who were in contact with the company and in a position to move on this.

 

I'll say this on the situation.  I think optics matter, Inelegant from your vantage point you have a lot of well founded points and I understand your perspective.  I've also seen how the sausage is made so to speak and see the other side.

 

If this was a vanilla company where I didn't know the people involved personally I'd be very worried about perceived red flags.  But after seeing behind the curtain I understand what's going on and I don't have the same view.

 

I don't want to speak for Steve, but I think they're doing their own filings.  My guess is they're overly conservative in what they're releasing because they don't want to find themselves in a legal nightmare regarding disclosure.

 

In the end everyone needs to make their own decisions.  I agree with Sanjeev that most outside investors underestimate the amount of work anyone running a company has to do.  It's easy to pick apart what a company is doing from afar, but when actually in the weeds it's difficult to keep all the balls in motion.

Just to clarify, are you saying you received subscription information for the first offering or the second?

In the Aztec situation, they proactively reached out to shareholders to see who might be interested in participating. Even shareholders with very small stakes. I appreciate your understanding. The real tragedy is how unnecessary this was. They could have accomplished exactly the same things while being respectful of all shareholders. That they chose not to is, in my mind, quite telling.

[DooDiligence]

Tim he is being paid twice. Whether that's good/bad is a different question. Problem with your argument is that he's being paid to allocate investors' capital as a full time job by his investors and he's getting paid by shareholders to be a full time CEO --- in a business where the capital is now being disbursed and actual 'operations' are in run-down. I don't like that because there's no way he works 2x 100% that he's getting paid for. Looking at it another way, both roles could be seen as capital allocation roles that can be done in 1x100% but then I think it would be fairer to pay him no base for Syte and only a carry on the increase in BV, sustained over, say 3 years (i.e. 3 - 5 year average increase in BV).

 

On the fligpside, the .048 offer was open to all qualified investors if I recall correctly.

C.

 

 

I beg to differ that he is getting paid twice to manage the same money.  They are two separate issues it is just that the same person is doing both.  He is getting paid as a fund manager to allocate capital.  He is also getting paid as the CEO which entails a whole lot more than managing the company's capital.  Being in that situation as a part time CEO I can attest to the different use of time.  It is not an overlap.  I suspect you would have no problem if a hired CEO got paid that amount.  To expect him to work for nothing when you would happily pay someone else shows the rationale of your argument is flawed. 

 

   

 

Not necessarily true.  I can't speak for what is happening at Sitestar, as I don't know the facts fully, and I'm not there watching operations daily.  But speaking for myself:

 

- I'm in the office from 10am to 7-8pm most days, unless I have meetings downtown...about 70% of that time is PDH and 30% is CMC. 

- I'm also up around 8am to check emails and quick calls before I head to the office. 

- When I get home usually around 7:30-8:30pm, I have dinner, put on hockey while I read 10-Q's & 10-K's, run screens, look for ideas, etc for CMC, answer emails till 1-2am. 

- Then I'm also usually in the office one day on the weekend for at least 6-8 hours (usually Saturdays) and then I'm working for 3-4 hours on Sunday from my home office on CMC stuff while football is on. 

- I go into the office on holiday Mondays, even when the building is closed to staff.

- I don't really take vacations...usually I add one day here or there on business trips.

- I generally eat a late breakfast at 11am and a late lunch at around 3pm...all on my desk, unless someone wants a lunch meeting...but I prefer coffee meetings so I don't waste much time.

 

Now that I actually think about what I do, I work pretty f**king hard!  And at times it feels like it.  But most of the time, I feel very fortunate doing what I'm doing and I love it.  That being said, if anyone begrudges me taking a fixed $99,000 salary because I'm CEO, even though I control a lot of the stock, they can bugger off. 

 

I get some 60-70 emails a day...sit on 4 corporate boards...2 charitable boards...usually 4-8 calls a day...7 full-time staff and another 14 staff through associate investments we are involved with...4 public earnings filings a year, a public company audit, two fund audits, numerous press releases, filings, statements...payroll and payable twice a month...8 corporate tax returns, two fund tax returns, two general partner tax returns, CMC's tax return...contracts, agreements, settlements, other legal documents...audit committee meetings, corporate governance meetings...networking events, annual PDH FFH dinner, company events, Pabrai Funds meeting...meetings with potential investments, business consultants bringing a potential acquisition, meetings with young managers, business people, CoBF readers, etc...the list can go on and on.  Wow!

 

Cheers!

 

You have an AWESOME job!

[oddballstocks]

On the fligpside, the .048 offer was open to all qualified investors if I recall correctly.

C.

 

I do not believe this to be the case. Please show me that it is, so that I can correct my public statements, if necessary.

 

It's true, I contacted them and was sent subscription information.  There are rules about companies soliciting for rights offerings.

 

I'm watching something similar in Aztec Land and Cattle.  They held a rights offering last year, and one this year.  To an outside observer it's just happening.  There are 'special' stockholders who are backstopping it.  But I also know that anyone accredited can subscribe, but you need to call the company and let them know you're interested.  The backstock shareholders were just a few individuals who were in contact with the company and in a position to move on this.

 

I'll say this on the situation.  I think optics matter, Inelegant from your vantage point you have a lot of well founded points and I understand your perspective.  I've also seen how the sausage is made so to speak and see the other side.

 

If this was a vanilla company where I didn't know the people involved personally I'd be very worried about perceived red flags.  But after seeing behind the curtain I understand what's going on and I don't have the same view.

 

I don't want to speak for Steve, but I think they're doing their own filings.  My guess is they're overly conservative in what they're releasing because they don't want to find themselves in a legal nightmare regarding disclosure.

 

In the end everyone needs to make their own decisions.  I agree with Sanjeev that most outside investors underestimate the amount of work anyone running a company has to do.  It's easy to pick apart what a company is doing from afar, but when actually in the weeds it's difficult to keep all the balls in motion.

Just to clarify, are you saying you received subscription information for the first offering or the second?

In the Aztec situation, they proactively reached out to shareholders to see who might be interested in participating. Even shareholders with very small stakes. I appreciate your understanding. The real tragedy is how unnecessary this was. They could have accomplished exactly the same things while being respectful of all shareholders. That they chose not to is, in my mind, quite telling.

 

I don't remember which, probably the second offering.

[DooDiligence]

Between reading "Dear Chairman" & this & Sitestar's threads I now have way more understanding of the inner workings of publicly traded companies (gotta apply this understanding to scaled up models now...)

 

Thank you all!!!

[premfan]

Synopsis from reading thread:

 

- Some investors in the micro cap network had more access to deal flow than Joe the plumber. The micro cap network is a growing phenomena since 2010.

 

- It seems that getting a salary to manage funds is a rigged game. results brother results! Pay to play.  You get free monies so you can play if you exexcuate. Stop hiding in the veil of buffet illusion

 

- CEO of  a startup should get minimal to no salary until traction.  Results!

 

Peter thiel doesn't  allow a salary above 150k for any of his young startups. I don't in what context young means. Probably at least series b or so 50 million or less.

[premfan]

On the fligpside, the .048 offer was open to all qualified investors if I recall correctly.

C.

 

I do not believe this to be the case. Please show me that it is, so that I can correct my public statements, if necessary.

 

It's true, I contacted them and was sent subscription information.  There are rules about companies soliciting for rights offerings.

 

I'm watching something similar in Aztec Land and Cattle.  They held a rights offering last year, and one this year.  To an outside observer it's just happening.  There are 'special' stockholders who are backstopping it.  But I also know that anyone accredited can subscribe, but you need to call the company and let them know you're interested.  The backstock shareholders were just a few individuals who were in contact with the company and in a position to move on this.

 

I'll say this on the situation.  I think optics matter, Inelegant from your vantage point you have a lot of well founded points and I understand your perspective.  I've also seen how the sausage is made so to speak and see the other side.

 

If this was a vanilla company where I didn't know the people involved personally I'd be very worried about perceived red flags.  But after seeing behind the curtain I understand what's going on and I don't have the same view.

 

I don't want to speak for Steve, but I think they're doing their own filings.  My guess is they're overly conservative in what they're releasing because they don't want to find themselves in a legal nightmare regarding disclosure.

 

In the end everyone needs to make their own decisions.  I agree with Sanjeev that most outside investors underestimate the amount of work anyone running a company has to do.  It's easy to pick apart what a company is doing from afar, but when actually in the weeds it's difficult to keep all the balls in motion.

Just to clarify, are you saying you received subscription information for the first offering or the second?

In the Aztec situation, they proactively reached out to shareholders to see who might be interested in participating. Even shareholders with very small stakes. I appreciate your understanding. The real tragedy is how unnecessary this was. They could have accomplished exactly the same things while being respectful of all shareholders. That they chose not to is, in my mind, quite telling.

 

I don't remember which, probably the second offering.

 

Friends of friends seed investing. well played sir

[ScottHall]

On the fligpside, the .048 offer was open to all qualified investors if I recall correctly.

C.

 

I do not believe this to be the case. Please show me that it is, so that I can correct my public statements, if necessary.

 

It's true, I contacted them and was sent subscription information.  There are rules about companies soliciting for rights offerings.

 

I'm watching something similar in Aztec Land and Cattle.  They held a rights offering last year, and one this year.  To an outside observer it's just happening.  There are 'special' stockholders who are backstopping it.  But I also know that anyone accredited can subscribe, but you need to call the company and let them know you're interested.  The backstock shareholders were just a few individuals who were in contact with the company and in a position to move on this.

 

I'll say this on the situation.  I think optics matter, Inelegant from your vantage point you have a lot of well founded points and I understand your perspective.  I've also seen how the sausage is made so to speak and see the other side.

 

If this was a vanilla company where I didn't know the people involved personally I'd be very worried about perceived red flags.  But after seeing behind the curtain I understand what's going on and I don't have the same view.

 

I don't want to speak for Steve, but I think they're doing their own filings.  My guess is they're overly conservative in what they're releasing because they don't want to find themselves in a legal nightmare regarding disclosure.

 

In the end everyone needs to make their own decisions.  I agree with Sanjeev that most outside investors underestimate the amount of work anyone running a company has to do.  It's easy to pick apart what a company is doing from afar, but when actually in the weeds it's difficult to keep all the balls in motion.

Just to clarify, are you saying you received subscription information for the first offering or the second?

In the Aztec situation, they proactively reached out to shareholders to see who might be interested in participating. Even shareholders with very small stakes. I appreciate your understanding. The real tragedy is how unnecessary this was. They could have accomplished exactly the same things while being respectful of all shareholders. That they chose not to is, in my mind, quite telling.

 

I don't remember which, probably the second offering.

 

Friends of friends seed investing. well played sir

 

Nate and Jeff at the very least are very honorable men from all of my interactions with them. I don't think the implication that there are special favors going on is fair to them, or to Kiel himself.

[premfan]

On the fligpside, the .048 offer was open to all qualified investors if I recall correctly.

C.

 

I do not believe this to be the case. Please show me that it is, so that I can correct my public statements, if necessary.

 

It's true, I contacted them and was sent subscription information.  There are rules about companies soliciting for rights offerings.

 

I'm watching something similar in Aztec Land and Cattle.  They held a rights offering last year, and one this year.  To an outside observer it's just happening.  There are 'special' stockholders who are backstopping it.  But I also know that anyone accredited can subscribe, but you need to call the company and let them know you're interested.  The backstock shareholders were just a few individuals who were in contact with the company and in a position to move on this.

 

I'll say this on the situation.  I think optics matter, Inelegant from your vantage point you have a lot of well founded points and I understand your perspective.  I've also seen how the sausage is made so to speak and see the other side.

 

If this was a vanilla company where I didn't know the people involved personally I'd be very worried about perceived red flags.  But after seeing behind the curtain I understand what's going on and I don't have the same view.

 

I don't want to speak for Steve, but I think they're doing their own filings.  My guess is they're overly conservative in what they're releasing because they don't want to find themselves in a legal nightmare regarding disclosure.

 

In the end everyone needs to make their own decisions.  I agree with Sanjeev that most outside investors underestimate the amount of work anyone running a company has to do.  It's easy to pick apart what a company is doing from afar, but when actually in the weeds it's difficult to keep all the balls in motion.

Just to clarify, are you saying you received subscription information for the first offering or the second?

In the Aztec situation, they proactively reached out to shareholders to see who might be interested in participating. Even shareholders with very small stakes. I appreciate your understanding. The real tragedy is how unnecessary this was. They could have accomplished exactly the same things while being respectful of all shareholders. That they chose not to is, in my mind, quite telling.

 

I don't remember which, probably the second offering.

 

Friends of friends seed investing. well played sir

 

Nate and Jeff at the very least are very honorable men from all of my interactions with them. I don't think the implication that there are special favors going on is fair to them, or to Kiel himself.

 

Subjective

[oddballstocks]

On the fligpside, the .048 offer was open to all qualified investors if I recall correctly.

C.

 

I do not believe this to be the case. Please show me that it is, so that I can correct my public statements, if necessary.

 

It's true, I contacted them and was sent subscription information.  There are rules about companies soliciting for rights offerings.

 

I'm watching something similar in Aztec Land and Cattle.  They held a rights offering last year, and one this year.  To an outside observer it's just happening.  There are 'special' stockholders who are backstopping it.  But I also know that anyone accredited can subscribe, but you need to call the company and let them know you're interested.  The backstock shareholders were just a few individuals who were in contact with the company and in a position to move on this.

 

I'll say this on the situation.  I think optics matter, Inelegant from your vantage point you have a lot of well founded points and I understand your perspective.  I've also seen how the sausage is made so to speak and see the other side.

 

If this was a vanilla company where I didn't know the people involved personally I'd be very worried about perceived red flags.  But after seeing behind the curtain I understand what's going on and I don't have the same view.

 

I don't want to speak for Steve, but I think they're doing their own filings.  My guess is they're overly conservative in what they're releasing because they don't want to find themselves in a legal nightmare regarding disclosure.

 

In the end everyone needs to make their own decisions.  I agree with Sanjeev that most outside investors underestimate the amount of work anyone running a company has to do.  It's easy to pick apart what a company is doing from afar, but when actually in the weeds it's difficult to keep all the balls in motion.

Just to clarify, are you saying you received subscription information for the first offering or the second?

In the Aztec situation, they proactively reached out to shareholders to see who might be interested in participating. Even shareholders with very small stakes. I appreciate your understanding. The real tragedy is how unnecessary this was. They could have accomplished exactly the same things while being respectful of all shareholders. That they chose not to is, in my mind, quite telling.

 

I don't remember which, probably the second offering.

 

Friends of friends seed investing. well played sir

 

Nate and Jeff at the very least are very honorable men from all of my interactions with them. I don't think the implication that there are special favors going on is fair to them, or to Kiel himself.

 

Subjective

 

I never purchased any shares, I just inquired and was sent material.

 

Scott, appreciate the kind words. 

 

Premfan, sorry to see you have such a poor opinion of me based on your own alternative facts.

[premfan]

On the fligpside, the .048 offer was open to all qualified investors if I recall correctly.

C.

 

I do not believe this to be the case. Please show me that it is, so that I can correct my public statements, if necessary.

 

It's true, I contacted them and was sent subscription information.  There are rules about companies soliciting for rights offerings.

 

I'm watching something similar in Aztec Land and Cattle.  They held a rights offering last year, and one this year.  To an outside observer it's just happening.  There are 'special' stockholders who are backstopping it.  But I also know that anyone accredited can subscribe, but you need to call the company and let them know you're interested.  The backstock shareholders were just a few individuals who were in contact with the company and in a position to move on this.

 

I'll say this on the situation.  I think optics matter, Inelegant from your vantage point you have a lot of well founded points and I understand your perspective.  I've also seen how the sausage is made so to speak and see the other side.

 

If this was a vanilla company where I didn't know the people involved personally I'd be very worried about perceived red flags.  But after seeing behind the curtain I understand what's going on and I don't have the same view.

 

I don't want to speak for Steve, but I think they're doing their own filings.  My guess is they're overly conservative in what they're releasing because they don't want to find themselves in a legal nightmare regarding disclosure.

 

In the end everyone needs to make their own decisions.  I agree with Sanjeev that most outside investors underestimate the amount of work anyone running a company has to do.  It's easy to pick apart what a company is doing from afar, but when actually in the weeds it's difficult to keep all the balls in motion.

Just to clarify, are you saying you received subscription information for the first offering or the second?

In the Aztec situation, they proactively reached out to shareholders to see who might be interested in participating. Even shareholders with very small stakes. I appreciate your understanding. The real tragedy is how unnecessary this was. They could have accomplished exactly the same things while being respectful of all shareholders. That they chose not to is, in my mind, quite telling.

 

I don't remember which, probably the second offering.

 

Friends of friends seed investing. well played sir

 

Nate and Jeff at the very least are very honorable men from all of my interactions with them. I don't think the implication that there are special favors going on is fair to them, or to Kiel himself.

 

Subjective

 

I never purchased any shares, I just inquired and was sent material.

 

Scott, appreciate the kind words. 

 

Premfan, sorry to see you have such a poor opinion of me based on your own alternative facts.

 

Oh no judgement on you. I followed you since the beginning of the micro cap network phenomena. You are a great story teller and marketer.