caprivenky Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Any suggestion on creating a value investor motif. What stocks would you choose (5 to 10) and what percentage Thanks for help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter1234 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 What are you trying to do? ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caprivenky Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 hi peter this year I started investing in Berkshire, fairfax and markel. iam buying whenever I have some money saved up . then I saw this Motif concept . feel like if I create a motif with some of these value investing stocks ,it will bring the cost of buying and also it will allow me to buy fractions of shares every month and also invest small amounts monthly like a mutual fund . I was going to create a motif with BRK/B, FRFHF and MKL with 1/3 divided between the three . may be I should ask for suggestions on the board for any other stocks to add to this motif (max 30 stocks allowed )and also how to divide the money between them . thanks' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Is this what you're talking about? https://www.motifinvesting.com/ First I hear of this, I had to google it... At first glance, I don't really see the point of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caprivenky Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 lets say I want to put 500$ and buy fairfax and MKL each month .this makes it possible . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ajc Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 lets say I want to put 500$ and buy fairfax and MKL each month .this makes it possible . Thanks for posting, caprivenky. Is it really as cost-efficient as it seems? For a $9.95 charge you can rebalance the exact weightings of a 30 stock portfolio as well as add and subtract stocks (https://www.motifinvesting.com/how-it-works/cost-efficient). That sounds almost too cheap to be true. Anyway, it seems like a really sensible idea. I mean, consumers should be able to buy how much of a business they want instead of only being able to own pre-set chunks. So, this service appears to make that possible. Something user-friendly like this is probably where things are headed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahleyp Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I don't know how much you're investing per month, if you're only doing a few hundred dollars a month, you're probably better off in a low cost index fund. If you're doing it to learn more, that's a different story. At $500 per month, the $10 is equal to 2% of the total outlay. Berkshire has underperformed the S&P 500 over the past 10 years and MKL has barely outperformed during time frame. Fairfax is the only one that would have beat the S&P 500 after commission. If you look at something with more growth potential, like an extended market index, the results for the index fund is even more pronounced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharperDingaan Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 You would be far smarter to limit your number of picks, save your $500/month, & invest it in round lots alongside your dividends as/when you receive them. SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jouni1 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 does that actually work out to be cheaper than IB? at 500 bucks a month i feel like IB and doing your own trades would get better results. i personally wouldn't touch MOTIFS with a ten foot pole. sounds ridiculous. also i feel like i just walked into a guerrilla advertisement trap and replied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
writser Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 does that actually work out to be cheaper than IB? at 500 bucks a month i feel like IB and doing your own trades would get better results. i personally wouldn't touch MOTIFS with a ten foot pole. sounds ridiculous. also i feel like i just walked into a guerrilla advertisement trap and replied. Doesn't IB require at least $10k unless you are a student? Might be impossible to open an account if you want to invest a couple of hundred dollars. I agree about the latter part :) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caprivenky Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 do you think this motif investing looks like a fraud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Berkshire has underperformed the S&P 500 over the past 10 years and MKL has barely outperformed during time frame. Fairfax is the only one that would have beat the S&P 500 after commission. If you look at something with more growth potential, like an extended market index, the results for the index fund is even more pronounced. What's your starting point? Google Finance shows the SP500 up 78.9% over the past 10 years while BRK.B is up 116.60% and MKL is up 137.3%. FFH is up 132.42%, so MKL is up more. I also think that valuation for those 3 went down (price/book) in the past ten years (though that's from memory, so I could be wrong), so IV might have gone up faster than the stock price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Caprivenky, if I were you, I'd avoid the extra friction and uncertainty and find a way to invest directly. Who knows where this motif thing will be in 5 years? It might not even exist anymore. And I wouldn't worry about round lots; when I was starting out I used to buy all kinds of odd numbers of shares, especially for companies that have high stock prices, and never had any problem. If it hits your limit price and fills, who cares if you're buying 7 shares? A round lot of MKL would be close to $65,000, so waiting to get that at 500/month isn't exactly practical... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitee00 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 do you think this motif investing looks like a fraud? No it is not. It is a US based start-up and was started by seasoned entrepreneurs and have received VC funding from JP morgan chase and Goldman sachs, in addition to other VCs. I have used motif investing for the past 1.5 years to invest in a basket of for-profit education companies. I have also rebalanced my portfolio. It works exactly like they claim. I think it is a novel idea although what I don't like is that you have to buy at market quotes. Also as far as I am aware you cannot create a long/short portfolio or buy a basket of options. They also have limits on liquidity/Mkt cap stocks in your portfolio must have. I have not explored everything on that site but I think its a nice platform and will probably improve over time. Although I am not sure if it is the best broker for monthly investing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatientCheetah Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 https://www.robinhood.com/ Free mobile trading, no minimal account size, they make money through short borrowing, exchange rebates, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitee00 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 https://www.robinhood.com/ Free mobile trading, no minimal account size, they make money through short borrowing, exchange rebates, etc. Have you tried it? How was your experience? Last time I looked at it there was a long wait list. Is it still the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatientCheetah Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 https://www.robinhood.com/ Free mobile trading, no minimal account size, they make money through short borrowing, exchange rebates, etc. Have you tried it? How was your experience? Last time I looked at it there was a long wait list. Is it still the case? I think I am on the wait list, so no clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahleyp Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Berkshire has underperformed the S&P 500 over the past 10 years and MKL has barely outperformed during time frame. Fairfax is the only one that would have beat the S&P 500 after commission. If you look at something with more growth potential, like an extended market index, the results for the index fund is even more pronounced. What's your starting point? Google Finance shows the SP500 up 78.9% over the past 10 years while BRK.B is up 116.60% and MKL is up 137.3%. FFH is up 132.42%, so MKL is up more. I also think that valuation for those 3 went down (price/book) in the past ten years (though that's from memory, so I could be wrong), so IV might have gone up faster than the stock price. Is Google Finance including dividends? I'm looking of morningstar (trailing total returns). It looks like it is 10 years to the day. Now, Berkshire B is beating the S&P 500 by .02%. But yeah, you're right, liberty, they were trading at a higher multiple (except for fairfax which has had a bit of an expansion based on P/B). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caprivenky Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 Hi infintee00 Will motif allow. Fairfax which is OTcbb stocks. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombgrt Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 By coincidence from yesterday: I'd personally simply buy in larger amounts than $500USD and buy all positions over time. Then rebalance based on portfolio weighing or valuation based on BV every 12-24 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter1234 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 By coincidence from yesterday: I'd personally simply buy in larger amounts than $500USD and buy all positions over time. Then rebalance based on portfolio weighing or valuation based on BV every 12-24 months. Thanks for the reddit link. Very interesting. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Is Google Finance including dividends? I'm looking of morningstar (trailing total returns). It looks like it is 10 years to the day. Now, Berkshire B is beating the S&P 500 by .02%. But yeah, you're right, liberty, they were trading at a higher multiple (except for fairfax which has had a bit of an expansion based on P/B). That's the difference, dividends. But even without dividends, I think your point stands that these companies haven't exactly been crushing it in the market in the past 10 years. The question is, have they beat the market in IV creation and will that be recognized at some point with higher valuations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahleyp Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Yeah, I totally think they'll beat the S&P 500 over the next 20 years or so. I'm just not so sure they'll beat it after the cost of commission when investing a low dollar amount. Obviously, the commission only matters very much if the monthly investment is pretty low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitee00 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Hi infintee00 Will motif allow. Fairfax which is OTcbb stocks. Thanks I do not think it is allowed but you could verify it with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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