drugs and prostitution

[ERICOPOLY]

So I think if you legalized the distribution of both, we'd end more than 50% of the violence in this country overnight.

 

You had drive-by shootings with tommy guns when Al Capone was minting money from alcohol prohibition. 

 

I feel like if you just take away the source of the money, the gangs are bankrupt.

 

You don't have licensed lawyers and licensed psychologists shooting at each other with AK-47s -- instead, they just advertise legitimately for increased market share.  Things just happen that way when they're legalized.

 

You don't need to ban guns to end the gang shootings.

[goldfinger]

Agreed on legalization and gangs.

However a lawyer who breaks a fuse can go out and shoot at kids in a school with an AK47. Once is once too much. So please ban them too.

 

[rkbabang]

So I think if you legalized the distribution of both, we'd end more than 50% of the violence in this country overnight.

 

You had drive-by shootings with tommy guns when Al Capone was minting money from alcohol prohibition. 

 

I feel like if you just take away the source of the money, the gangs are bankrupt.

 

You don't have licensed lawyers and licensed psychologists shooting at each other with AK-47s -- instead, they just advertise legitimately for increased market share.  Things just happen that way when they're legalized.

 

You don't need to ban guns to end the gang shootings.

 

I agree completely.  Not only that, there would be a couple of new industries to invest in.  What do you think of that new chain of brothels with the drive-through bays setup like Jiffy Lube?

 

[Parsad]

American's giving up their guns will never happen...they're just nuts...we have to accept it and move on!

 

I like Chris Rock's idea...make the bullets cost $5,000 each...then people make sure they shoot the right guy instead of bystanders or innocent people!

 

And by the way Eric, I'm sure this topic won't degenerate into flame wars!  :D  Cheers!

[ASTA]

Lee Kuan Yew that's my answer. Anyone how have seen third world corruption and USA constitution at work i think will like Lee Kuan Yew. I have not been in Singapore in a long time but what i have read about the place its the best government in the world right now.

 

 

[Mikenhe]

Agreed on legalization and gangs.

However a lawyer who breaks a fuse can go out and shoot at kids in a school with an AK47. Once is once too much. So please ban them too.

 

I totally agree. Time for a ban on Lawyers.

[Liberty]

So I think if you legalized the distribution of both, we'd end more than 50% of the violence in this country overnight.

 

You had drive-by shootings with tommy guns when Al Capone was minting money from alcohol prohibition. 

 

I feel like if you just take away the source of the money, the gangs are bankrupt.

 

You don't have licensed lawyers and licensed psychologists shooting at each other with AK-47s -- instead, they just advertise legitimately for increased market share.  Things just happen that way when they're legalized.

 

You don't need to ban guns to end the gang shootings.

 

I think you're absolutely right. Unfortunately, not everyone looks at things pragmatically/rationally and at the actual results of policies versus the alternatives. People who see the world through a moralistic lens will take the wrong decisions every time as long as they can claim good intentions and purity.

[yadayada]

American's giving up their guns will never happen...they're just nuts...we have to accept it and move on!

 

I like Chris Rock's idea...make the bullets cost $5,000 each...then people make sure they shoot the right guy instead of bystanders or innocent people!

 

And by the way Eric, I'm sure this topic won't degenerate into flame wars!  :D  Cheers!

but with bullets that expensive, they cannot target practice, so then they will miss a lot

[snow pea]

I think you're absolutely right. Unfortunately, not everyone looks at things pragmatically and at the results. People who see the world through a moralistic lens will take the wrong decisions every time as long as they can claim good intentions and purity.

 

I find your dogmatically anti-dogmatic phrasing ironic and amusing (and also am saddened a bit by it).

[stahleyp]

So I think if you legalized the distribution of both, we'd end more than 50% of the violence in this country overnight.

 

You had drive-by shootings with tommy guns when Al Capone was minting money from alcohol prohibition. 

 

I feel like if you just take away the source of the money, the gangs are bankrupt.

 

You don't have licensed lawyers and licensed psychologists shooting at each other with AK-47s -- instead, they just advertise legitimately for increased market share.  Things just happen that way when they're legalized.

 

You don't need to ban guns to end the gang shootings.

 

I think you're absolutely right. Unfortunately, not everyone looks at things pragmatically/rationally and at the actual results of policies versus the alternatives. People who see the world through a moralistic lens will take the wrong decisions every time as long as they can claim good intentions and purity.

 

I'm this guy.

 

But, I also don't disagree with you guys. People are going to do things whether or not those things are morally suspect. Now, if someone overdoses or catches an STD, we also shouldn't treat them (or at the very least, charge them much higher insurance costs to cover their actions). That's evolution at work. You take the gamble, ya pay the price. ;)

[ERICOPOLY]

Paul,

The easy way to cut down on STD costs is to make the HPV vaccine mandatory for 12 yr old girls.

 

People's morals shouldn't drive up costs!

[stahleyp]

Paul,

The easy way to cut down on STD costs is to make the HPV vaccine mandatory for 12 yr old girls.

 

People's morals shouldn't drive up costs!

 

Eric,

 

Do the parents have to pay extra for the HPV medication at least then? Someone's gotta cover it. It shouldn't be passed along to the others not playing the game.

[Liberty]

I think you're absolutely right. Unfortunately, not everyone looks at things pragmatically and at the results. People who see the world through a moralistic lens will take the wrong decisions every time as long as they can claim good intentions and purity.

 

I find your dogmatically anti-dogmatic phrasing ironic and amusing (and also am saddened a bit by it).

 

This isn't computer code. You know what I meant, no need to be pedantic.

[Gamecock-YT]

So I think if you legalized the distribution of both, we'd end more than 50% of the violence in this country overnight.

 

You had drive-by shootings with tommy guns when Al Capone was minting money from alcohol prohibition. 

 

I feel like if you just take away the source of the money, the gangs are bankrupt.

 

You don't have licensed lawyers and licensed psychologists shooting at each other with AK-47s -- instead, they just advertise legitimately for increased market share.  Things just happen that way when they're legalized.

 

You don't need to ban guns to end the gang shootings.

 

I agree with you but getting to that point is something that will never happen in our lifetime, at least in the part of the country I live in...

[ERICOPOLY]

Paul,

The easy way to cut down on STD costs is to make the HPV vaccine mandatory for 12 yr old girls.

 

People's morals shouldn't drive up costs!

 

Eric,

 

Do the parents have to pay extra for the HPV medication at least then? Someone's gotta cover it. It shouldn't be passed along to the others not playing the game.

 

The vaccines could be purchased with the enforcement savings from decriminalization of prostitution.  That cost (enforcement/incarceration) is born by all but is due to the moralists insisting on these vice laws.

 

By the way, what disease is spread by hand jobs?  There is only enforcement cost with no public health concern there.  Sex is bizarre in that it's legal only when it's free.  Look,if you are a woman and if you are rather "loose", it doesn't seem like an improvement to be so cheap as to be free at the same time.

[rkbabang]

American's giving up their guns will never happen...they're just nuts...we have to accept it and move on!

 

I like Chris Rock's idea...make the bullets cost $5,000 each...then people make sure they shoot the right guy instead of bystanders or innocent people!

 

And by the way Eric, I'm sure this topic won't degenerate into flame wars!  :D  Cheers!

 

One problem with the $5000/bullet idea.  If I pay $5000 per bullet I will be much less likely to practice, in fact I wouldn't practice at all.  So when the time comes and I have to fire my gun in an attempt to save my life, having only fired a gun once or twice in my life (at $5000/bullet how could I justify more practice than that?) will I be more or less likely to hit the person I am aiming at? And more importantly will I be more or less likely to hit someone else?  If you wan't to save innocent lives ammunition should be cheaper so that people can practice more.

[ERICOPOLY]

Just buy a reloading press if bullets are 5,000.

 

Hand loading is pretty easy.

[Liberty]

The vaccines could be purchased with the enforcement savings from decriminalization of prostitution.  That cost (enforcement/incarceration) is born by all but is due to the moralists insisting on these vice laws.

 

The Gates Foundation would probably gladly pay for them.

[stahleyp]

Paul,

The easy way to cut down on STD costs is to make the HPV vaccine mandatory for 12 yr old girls.

 

People's morals shouldn't drive up costs!

 

Eric,

 

Do the parents have to pay extra for the HPV medication at least then? Someone's gotta cover it. It shouldn't be passed along to the others not playing the game.

 

The vaccines could be purchased with the enforcement savings from decriminalization of prostitution.  That cost (enforcement/incarceration) is born by all but is due to the moralists insisting on these vice laws.

 

By the way, what disease is spread by hand jobs?  There is only enforcement cost with no public health concern there.  Sex is bizarre in that it's legal only when it's free.  Look,if you are a woman and if you are rather "loose", it doesn't seem like an improvement to be so cheap as to be free at the same time.

 

I can buy your original argument but not this one.

 

Let's say we started fresh so that the moralists didn't have say in it. Prostitution would be legal and, as a result, there are no costs of law enforcements. However, the added costs of healthcare would still be in the system (or for sleeping around, in general).

 

The added costs are there even if we remove the artificial constraint of law enforcement. Since the real cost is there, I don't see how it's fair to layer that on to the "moral" citizens.

[cwericb]

"The vaccines could be purchased with the enforcement savings from decriminalization of prostitution.  That cost (enforcement/incarceration) is born by all but is due to the moralists insisting on these vice laws."

 

But hey, here in Canada Peter MacKay, Minister of Justice, has announced that he is going to outlaw and completely stamp out prostitution. Good luck with that Peter, it isn't refered to as "the oldest profession" without good reason.

 

It drives me crazy that we spend billions tilting at windmills and think we can use legislation and the police to outlaw all guns, stop prostitution, and ban the use of drugs like marijuana. Did we not learn anything from the prohibition era? 

[ERICOPOLY]

Paul,

The easy way to cut down on STD costs is to make the HPV vaccine mandatory for 12 yr old girls.

 

People's morals shouldn't drive up costs!

 

Eric,

 

Do the parents have to pay extra for the HPV medication at least then? Someone's gotta cover it. It shouldn't be passed along to the others not playing the game.

 

The vaccines could be purchased with the enforcement savings from decriminalization of prostitution.  That cost (enforcement/incarceration) is born by all but is due to the moralists insisting on these vice laws.

 

By the way, what disease is spread by hand jobs?  There is only enforcement cost with no public health concern there.  Sex is bizarre in that it's legal only when it's free.  Look,if you are a woman and if you are rather "loose", it doesn't seem like an improvement to be so cheap as to be free at the same time.

 

I can buy your original argument but not this one.

 

Let's say we started fresh so that the moralists didn't have say in it. Prostitution would be legal and, as a result, there are no costs of law enforcements. However, the added costs of healthcare would still be in the system (or for sleeping around, in general).

 

The added costs are there even if we remove the artificial constraint of law enforcement. Since the real cost is there, I don't see how it's fair to layer that on to the "moral" citizens.

 

You can legalize professional sex with condom and outlaw free hookup sex without condoms -- that is, if this is really about health issues and not about morals.

 

The health issue is a red herring.

 

Google "escort backpage [your city]".

 

Now, are those girls licensed prostitutes that undergo a regular health checkup?  Nope.

 

Illegal prostitution means disease.  Legalized is less so.  Just like hamburger meat, a regular inspection helps but no guarantee.

 

Illegal just adds to the health costs.  But you are against the health costs it seems?  Hmmm.

 

I think it's just a moral hurdle.  The prostitutes are there either way, but you could do better from a health standpoint if they were certified by a state health inspector.

 

Plus, you could legalize protected sex only.  For example, hand jobs are illegal from prostitutes?  Why?  Don't argue it's a health issue.

[ERICOPOLY]

I'd bet that there would be more E-Coli poisoning in the US if hamburger meat were illegal.

 

USDA does not regulate the black market.

 

[stahleyp]

Oh no, the health care costs are just an added negative.

 

I look at it like this:

 

Every person is valuable (and more valuable than an animal, let's say). Our beginnings are more than stardust. Now, if your viewpoint is accurate, at the end of the day, that what we really are, right? If so, why do you care so much about what happens to the people are Walmart? Yes, we have empathy, but you're pretty good at overcoming evolutionary instincts, Eric.

 

Things, such as prostitution or drug use, undermine a person's value. It causes all kinds of emotional issues and hurts their potential. It also hurts marriages and relationships. Would you prefer that your children never try prostitution or would you be okay with it (let's say it's legal for this exercise)?

 

Do you think your wife would mind if she were out of town and you only wanted "a hand job?" After all, it's just about having fun, right?

 

It's just "stardust" rubbing on "stardust".

[ERICOPOLY]

I don't want my daughter to smoke cigarettes.

I don't want her to chew gum.

I don't want her drunk.

I don't want her to drop out of school.

I don't want her to use drugs.

I don't want her to be a prostitute.

 

That's all true.

 

Now if I make them all illegal, I'm covered right?

 

Well, how come we have drugs and prostitution if they are illegal?

 

So the question is... Since we're pretty much screwed either way on the drugs and prostitution issue, why do we have to create a lucrative industry for violent gangs/criminals?

 

My parents are Australian and prostitution there is legal.  I haven't heard of any troubles whatsoever.

 

And yes, your wife hates illegal prostitutes just as much.  It's not like making it illegal is going to save you from yourself if you have the itch.  Just ask Elliott Spitzer.  Me, I have self control and don't need laws to define my morals.

[LC]

My two cents is for legalization. But some things in this country take centuries to change. See minority rights, gun control, etc.

 

Progress is slow, and I think for the case of prostitution, probably the slowest...