PDH - Premier Diversified Holdings Inc.

[Jurgis]

It's 8.7% if you take him at his word that it costs 0.15+ and the shares are going for 0.138.

 

That's at 0.15.  I just said "approximately" to account for the "+" he tacked on there.

 

0.15 based on $.138 order is overstated IMO. I see approximately $.154 based on $.15 order that filled at $.148 or so. I don't have an exact CAD price at that moment, so there might or might not be currency slippage. YMMV though.

 

If Schwab charges only $8 and does not do any hanky panky with orders, they might be better for this than Fido.

[gary17]

Aside from the qualitative values of PDH - can someone explain to me what's the value investing thesis on PDH on a quantitative basis ? 

 

Thanks

[fareastwarriors]

Is anyone holding PRDGF instead of PDH?

[Jurgis]

Is anyone holding PRDGF instead of PDH?

 

http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/investment-ideas/pdh-premier-diagnostic-health-services/msg247559/#msg247559

 

;)

 

Most stockholders from USA do.

[Jurgis]

Aside from the qualitative values of PDH - can someone explain to me what's the value investing thesis on PDH on a quantitative basis ? 

 

Thanks

 

Let me say "not much right now".

 

This will certainly elicit a response. ;)

[Partner24]

No quantitative thesis for the moment. Actually, that's a qualitative stock based on the person who is on the very top of the business.

 

But we look forward for the moment that the quantitative basis will develop  ;)

 

Cheers!

[gary17]

so aside from the two directors being very nice and honest people , what are their long term investment performances that warrant the current valuation ?

[adesigar]

“Somebody once said that in looking for people to hire , you look for three qualities: integrity, intelligence, and energy . And if you don’t have the first, the other two will kill you. You think about it; it’s true. If you hire somebody without [integrity], you really want them to be dumb and lazy.” –Warren Buffett

 

so aside from the two directors being very nice and honest people , what are their long term investment performances that warrant the current valuation ?

 

Add in that he started this board and you've got the other 2 qualities.

[Jurgis]

so aside from the two directors being very nice and honest people , what are their long term investment performances that warrant the current valuation ?

 

I'll ask Sanjeev for forgiveness for the following, since this might sound like a bear case, but I'll invert. So here are the reasons not to buy PDH:

 

- Unproven money losing business

- Listed on crappy exchange

- Penny stock with huge number of shares outstanding (131M shares)

- Half of shares above issued in last year

- Part of business in China

- Medical business might not be big enough for current capitalization and may require additional cash investments (and dilution?) to grow.

- So so investments in new businesses through the year:

  - Russell Breweries is a company in quite competitive market

  - Sequant purchase - unproven business that may suffer in major cat years

  - Additional Sequant investment - paid higher share prices in still unproven business

  - Real estate investment in overheated Vancouver market

 

To find the reasons to invest, you might try to invert and decide where the reasons to not invest are weak or no longer apply.

Let's see if Sanjeev and his team knock some of these pins down in the upcoming annual report (or in next couple of years).  8)

 

Peace.

[ourkid8]

Please see my comments below. 

 

so aside from the two directors being very nice and honest people , what are their long term investment performances that warrant the current valuation ?

 

I'll ask Sanjeev for forgiveness for the following, since this might sound like a bear case, but I'll invert. So here are the reasons not to buy PDH:

 

- Unproven money losing business  - True however I think the imaging business is not losing money anymore and the only issue is the reinsurance business however it has been a 4 banger to date

- Listed on crappy exchange - True but who cares

- Penny stock with huge number of shares outstanding (131M shares) - Yes, but who cares

- Half of shares above issued in last year - Yes, it had to be done so sanjeev can perform the turnaround.  I highly doubt this is indicative of the future.

- Part of business in China - Yes, china has a shortage of MRI's as per Sanjeev and has huge growth potential

- Medical business might not be big enough for current capitalization and may require additional cash investments (and dilution?) to grow. - This is my concern which is why i prefer Sanjeev to stay away from real estate in vancouver / Russell and use the cash towards growing the imaging business

- So so investments in new businesses through the year:

  - Russell Breweries is a company in quite competitive market - agreed, the business sucks

  - Sequant purchase - unproven business that may suffer in major cat years - No issue of major cat as this is a low risk reinsurance model.  Read-up on it however this has been a 4 banger.

  - Additional Sequant investment - paid higher share prices in still unproven business -  Yes, however the results over the last year have been superb

  - Real estate investment in overheated Vancouver market - agreed

 

To find the reasons to invest, you might try to invert and decide where the reasons to not invest are weak or no longer apply.

Let's see if Sanjeev and his team knock some of these pins down in the upcoming annual report (or in next couple of years).  8)

 

Peace.

[Uccmal]

Please see my comments below. 

 

so aside from the two directors being very nice and honest people , what are their long term investment performances that warrant the current valuation ?

 

I'll ask Sanjeev for forgiveness for the following, since this might sound like a bear case, but I'll invert. So here are the reasons not to buy PDH:

 

- Unproven money losing business  - True however I think the imaging business is not losing money anymore and the only issue is the reinsurance business however it has been a 4 banger to date

- Listed on crappy exchange - True but who cares

- Penny stock with huge number of shares outstanding (131M shares) - Yes, but who cares

- Half of shares above issued in last year - Yes, it had to be done so sanjeev can perform the turnaround.  I highly doubt this is indicative of the future.

- Part of business in China - Yes, china has a shortage of MRI's as per Sanjeev and has huge growth potential

- Medical business might not be big enough for current capitalization and may require additional cash investments (and dilution?) to grow. - This is my concern which is why i prefer Sanjeev to stay away from real estate in vancouver / Russell and use the cash towards growing the imaging business

- So so investments in new businesses through the year:

  - Russell Breweries is a company in quite competitive market - agreed, the business sucks

  - Sequant purchase - unproven business that may suffer in major cat years - No issue of major cat as this is a low risk reinsurance model.  Read-up on it however this has been a 4 banger.

  - Additional Sequant investment - paid higher share prices in still unproven business -  Yes, however the results over the last year have been superb

  - Real estate investment in overheated Vancouver market - agreed

 

To find the reasons to invest, you might try to invert and decide where the reasons to not invest are weak or no longer apply.

Let's see if Sanjeev and his team knock some of these pins down in the upcoming annual report (or in next couple of years).  8)

 

Peace.

 

 

 

There is nothing wrong with asking why.

 

1) The imaging business has incredible potential.  I sent a pm to ourkid on this exact item a week or two ago.  Private imaging has great possibilities in Canada.  My Dr. wants me to stay on statins (Lipitor, Crestor) to reduce my cholesterol levels.  I tried the drug and within two weeks I was having painful muscle agony.  Now aside from enduring the effects of potentially dangerous drugs, there is one other option that could be done, but not in Ontario, unless you are a high risk patient (im not).  This is an imaging procedure known as a calcium scan.  For me to get it done, I would need to go to Buffalo and pay $300 Us - over 400 cdn plus associated time, and travel issues.  I would pay cash tomorrow to have it done in Toronto, to put the matter to rest, one way or the other.  The irony is that in the long term it would probably save the gov't money. 

 

So, I like the imaging business and would support PDH expanding here.  Since it is regulated in Canada there is a built in profit margin.

 

2) The issuance of shares was done to get the ball rolling as ourkid mentions.

 

3) I agree with ourkid that The craft brewery business is a crappy business with very low barriers to entry.  There are dozens operating in Ontario.

 

4) Sequant - time will tell.  It is not an insurer with its own capital on the line.  More of a brokerage business.

 

5) Real estate - I am agnostic on this.  Building relationships is not a bad thing, for future considerations. 

 

Concerning management abilities.  Sanjeev and Alnesh have run a fund for a few yrs. which I believe has performed well.  Well enough that some of our US board members have invested large sums.  They are also getting essentially free help from other Directors.  Sanjeev has alot of goodwill to work with.  I would certainly help him for free, and Gio has offered.  I would not have become a millionaire without the help of this message board and its predecessor.  At very least it would have taken longer and I would have been stumbling in the dark more often. 

[Crip1]

  Since it is regulated in Canada there is a built in profit margin.

 

 

Preface this with admission that I'm totally ignorant on how such things work in Canada. That said, this sentence suggests to me that, by the stroke of a pen (a political pen which is controlled by someone who is not concerned with their investment in PDH but IS concerned with appearing to combat corporate greed to his/her constituency), that profit margin can be compromised. That's a concern. Is that concern valid?

 

 

-Crip

[rkbabang]

by the stroke of a pen (a political pen which is controlled by someone who is not concerned with their investment in PDH but IS concerned with appearing to combat corporate greed to his/her constituency), that profit margin can be compromised. That's a concern. Is that concern valid?

 

That is exactly the case when doing business in any place on Earth that is under the jurisdiction of a government.  Laws/regulations/tax rates can change at any time without warning.  Entire businesses can become illegal and/or unprofitable overnight.  This risk isn't unique to PDH.

 

[Uccmal]

by the stroke of a pen (a political pen which is controlled by someone who is not concerned with their investment in PDH but IS concerned with appearing to combat corporate greed to his/her constituency), that profit margin can be compromised. That's a concern. Is that concern valid?

 

That is exactly the case when doing business in any place on Earth that is under the jurisdiction of a government.  Laws/regulations/tax rates can change at any time without warning.  Entire businesses can become illegal and/or unprofitable overnight.  This risk isn't unique to PDH.

 

 

All true.  Right now, Imaging clinics are regulated according to provincial law, private or otherwise. 

They get a fixed rate per procedure.  It has a built in profit margin, more or less.  A private clinic could charge somewhat more and operate with the same fixed costs.  From my perspective it is only a matter of time before citizens start to demand these services be privately available, especially aging bany boomers wating months for test.  Maybe I am wrong.  Do you know that I have to book a standard physical months in advance?

[rkbabang]

by the stroke of a pen (a political pen which is controlled by someone who is not concerned with their investment in PDH but IS concerned with appearing to combat corporate greed to his/her constituency), that profit margin can be compromised. That's a concern. Is that concern valid?

 

That is exactly the case when doing business in any place on Earth that is under the jurisdiction of a government.  Laws/regulations/tax rates can change at any time without warning.  Entire businesses can become illegal and/or unprofitable overnight.  This risk isn't unique to PDH.

 

 

All true.  Right now, Imaging clinics are regulated according to provincial law, private or otherwise. 

They get a fixed rate per procedure.  It has a built in profit margin, more or less.  A private clinic could charge somewhat more and operate with the same fixed costs.  From my perspective it is only a matter of time before citizens start to demand these services be privately available, especially aging bany boomers wating months for test.  Maybe I am wrong.  Do you know that I have to book a standard physical months in advance?

 

We hear so much in the US about how wonderful the Canadian healthcare system is, yet it is 12:21pm right now and I could get a physical exam complete with blood tests and just about any other test I wanted, or the doctor thought I needed, this afternoon if I decided to.

 

[wisdom]

What about those who cannot afford to pay or do not have insurance?

 

Not trying to start anything but there is more than one perspective.

[ourkid8]

Would you please open a topic in the general category to discuss this?  I prefer not to clutter the PDH thread with a back and forth discussion.  (We know how heated this can get)

 

What about those who cannot afford to pay or do not have insurance?

 

Not trying to start anything but there is more than one perspective.

[Jurgis]

We hear so much in the US about how wonderful the Canadian healthcare system is, yet it is 12:21pm right now and I could get a physical exam complete with blood tests and just about any other test I wanted, or the doctor thought I needed, this afternoon if I decided to.

 

Lolz. I have to schedule a non-emergency physical month in advance. And it will be 15 minutes max with the doc (blood tests are the same day though). So let's not start bragging about US healthcare. Your NH doctor is sitting in the office twiddling his thumbs waiting for you to show up?

[rkbabang]

We hear so much in the US about how wonderful the Canadian healthcare system is, yet it is 12:21pm right now and I could get a physical exam complete with blood tests and just about any other test I wanted, or the doctor thought I needed, this afternoon if I decided to.

 

Lolz. I have to schedule a non-emergency physical month in advance. And it will be 15 minutes max with the doc (blood tests are the same day though). So let's not start bragging about US healthcare. Your NH doctor is sitting in the office twiddling his thumbs waiting for you to show up?

 

My Doctor's pretty busy.  I didn't say with "my Doctor" I said with "a Doctor".  New Hampshire has some excellent walk in clinics without long wait times.  I go there if I just want a blood test to check up on something myself, or for minor injuries or infections, etc.  I see my Doctor once per year and I make the appointment ahead of time.  I don't think it would take a month to see him though if I wanted to.  My wife needed an MRI a few years back and she had to wait 3 days, and that was because it wasn't an emergency and we had a specific location in mind we wanted to have it done.  I'm not bragging too much about US healthcare.  Government regulations have been busy destroying it little by little while increasing the costs every year for the past 6 or 7 decades now.  The largest mistake we ever made was tying healthcare to employment and letting the government regulate what it had to cover.  Try tying car insurance to employment and making it cover everything from oil changes to putting gas in the car and you will see rates sky rocket as well.  Car insurance is a good example.  I moved from a heavily regulated state (Massachusetts) to a lightly regulated state (NH), I kept the same cars and the same insurance company with the same levels of coverage.  My costs dropped by half, almost $1000 per year.  And Massachusetts doesn't regulate auto insurance anywhere near the level the Fed-gov regulates healthcare.

 

 

 

 

[Uccmal]

Would you please open a topic in the general category to discuss this?  I prefer not to clutter the PDH thread with a back and forth discussion.  (We know how heated this can get)

 

What about those who cannot afford to pay or do not have insurance?

 

Not trying to start anything but there is more than one perspective.

 

I agree.  Its my bad.  Lets stay on topic.  Its the one topic our moderator cant really interfere with since its about his company. 

[wachtwoord]

IB has PRDGF but when I try to make an order ot says no trading permissions. What trading permissions do I need? I have OTC.

[TwoCitiesCapital]

IB has PRDGF but when I try to make an order ot says no trading permissions. What trading permissions do I need? I have OTC.

 

When I transferred from Scottrade, they told me that I would have to trade it through IB's trading desk, but then even the transfer failed and the shares went back to Scottrade so I'm assuming they don't support trading in this name for some reason.

[wachtwoord]

IB has PRDGF but when I try to make an order ot says no trading permissions. What trading permissions do I need? I have OTC.

 

When I transferred from Scottrade, they told me that I would have to trade it through IB's trading desk, but then even the transfer failed and the shares went back to Scottrade so I'm assuming they don't support trading in this name for some reason.

 

It's just weird that I can find it in the trader desk. Usually if they don't support it you can't find it (like with the OTC for Clarke CLKFF).

 

I'll drop them a support ticket when I have time.

[rmitz]

by the stroke of a pen (a political pen which is controlled by someone who is not concerned with their investment in PDH but IS concerned with appearing to combat corporate greed to his/her constituency), that profit margin can be compromised. That's a concern. Is that concern valid?

 

That is exactly the case when doing business in any place on Earth that is under the jurisdiction of a government.  Laws/regulations/tax rates can change at any time without warning.  Entire businesses can become illegal and/or unprofitable overnight.  This risk isn't unique to PDH.

 

 

All true.  Right now, Imaging clinics are regulated according to provincial law, private or otherwise. 

They get a fixed rate per procedure.  It has a built in profit margin, more or less.  A private clinic could charge somewhat more and operate with the same fixed costs.  From my perspective it is only a matter of time before citizens start to demand these services be privately available, especially aging bany boomers wating months for test.  Maybe I am wrong.  Do you know that I have to book a standard physical months in advance?

 

We hear so much in the US about how wonderful the Canadian healthcare system is, yet it is 12:21pm right now and I could get a physical exam complete with blood tests and just about any other test I wanted, or the doctor thought I needed, this afternoon if I decided to.

 

I live in Pittsburgh, with a ton of hospitals.  No *way* could I get that done.  I have never seen convenience like that outside of small towns, and then it wouldn’t cover the sophisticated stuff.  Normally I have to wait weeks to see a specialist (depends what kind).

[oddballstocks]

by the stroke of a pen (a political pen which is controlled by someone who is not concerned with their investment in PDH but IS concerned with appearing to combat corporate greed to his/her constituency), that profit margin can be compromised. That's a concern. Is that concern valid?

 

That is exactly the case when doing business in any place on Earth that is under the jurisdiction of a government.  Laws/regulations/tax rates can change at any time without warning.  Entire businesses can become illegal and/or unprofitable overnight.  This risk isn't unique to PDH.

 

 

All true.  Right now, Imaging clinics are regulated according to provincial law, private or otherwise. 

They get a fixed rate per procedure.  It has a built in profit margin, more or less.  A private clinic could charge somewhat more and operate with the same fixed costs.  From my perspective it is only a matter of time before citizens start to demand these services be privately available, especially aging bany boomers wating months for test.  Maybe I am wrong.  Do you know that I have to book a standard physical months in advance?

 

We hear so much in the US about how wonderful the Canadian healthcare system is, yet it is 12:21pm right now and I could get a physical exam complete with blood tests and just about any other test I wanted, or the doctor thought I needed, this afternoon if I decided to.

 

I live in Pittsburgh, with a ton of hospitals.  No *way* could I get that done.  I have never seen convenience like that outside of small towns, and then it wouldn’t cover the sophisticated stuff.  Normally I have to wait weeks to see a specialist (depends what kind).

 

Where you at in Pittsburgh? I'm in the North Hills.  Anyways, I agree, a physical is the lowest priority rung, scheduling is months out.  If I wanted a physical at one of those quick care clinics I could get it done right now.  There'd probably be a 20-30m wait, but that's it.  Even blood tests are slow.  I had a blood test at UPMC Passavant a few years ago where I waited with 8-10 others for 45m.  I didn't understand why it took so long to give simple blood tests.  It seemed like the lab was being run by the post office that day.