POLL - Are You Female or Were You A Humanities Major?

[cobafdek]

I wonder how many do not fit the mold.  Many/most members of this board are male with an engineering background.  Sort of hum-drum.  And we've already had that poll.

 

It would be interesting to see how many here have no engineering and no formal finance/business training, especially females.  I would think such a person would have a fascinating brain.

 

Male/Engineer members need not vote, but comments welcome.

[yadayada]

Looking for a date

[Liberty]

Looking for a date

 

That's the kind of stuff I was talking about in the other thread...

[Palantir]

I find the hetero-normative social construct of "gender" to be an oppressive product of patriarchy and am uncomfortable that you are asking us this question.

[yadayada]

Looking for a date

 

That's the kind of stuff I was talking about in the other thread...

oooh the patriarchy. To be honest im getting kind of sick of all that women are equal crap. That myth has been extensively debunked by science. But for some reason your labeled a sexist if you point that out. The reason you see almost no female investors is not because of the evil patriarchy. Hint: it has to do with incentives and how our brains are wired differently.

 

I guess in 50-100 years when we still invent almost everything and build almost everything, and feminists run out of excuses because positive discrimination is out of control for women, then we can finally accept that.

[Liberty]

Looking for a date

 

That's the kind of stuff I was talking about in the other thread...

oooh the patriarchy. To be honest im getting kind of sick of all that women are equal crap. That myth has been extensively debunked by science. But for some reason your labeled a sexist if you point that out. The reason you see almost no female investors is not because of the evil patriarchy. Hint: it has to do with incentives and how our brains are wired differently.

 

I guess in 50-100 years when we still invent almost everything and build almost everything, and feminists run out of excuses because positive discrimination is out of control for women, then we can finally accept that.

 

I never wrote about any of that. All I was talking about was not being a huge jackass.

 

A lot of people are dumber than you are, regardless of their sex or skin color. Doesn't mean you have to be a gigantic douchebag to them, and I'm sure you wish the people are are smarter than you would do the same.

 

It's also pretty much always a bad idea to see people as groups rather than individuals, because within any group there's enough variation to make it meaningless. You never meet groups as a whole, only individuals.

[rkbabang]

Male/Engineer members need not vote

 

When will the discrimination against my kind end?  Geek Power!

[yadayada]

Looking for a date

 

That's the kind of stuff I was talking about in the other thread...

oooh the patriarchy. To be honest im getting kind of sick of all that women are equal crap. That myth has been extensively debunked by science. But for some reason your labeled a sexist if you point that out. The reason you see almost no female investors is not because of the evil patriarchy. Hint: it has to do with incentives and how our brains are wired differently.

 

I guess in 50-100 years when we still invent almost everything and build almost everything, and feminists run out of excuses because positive discrimination is out of control for women, then we can finally accept that.

 

I never wrote about any of that. All I was talking about was not being a huge jackass.

 

A lot of people are dumber than you are, regardless of their sex or skin color. Doesn't mean you have to be a gigantic douchebag to them, and I'm sure you wish the people are are smarter than you would do the same.

 

It's also pretty much always a bad idea to see people as groups rather than individuals, because within any group there's enough variation to make it meaningless. You never meet groups as a whole, only individuals.

no but it becomes a problem when they start crying sexism everywhere, and people start to measure with double standards. I know a lot of anecdotes where a woman is hired vs 10 male candidates because she was the only candidate without looking at her capabilities. Just because they did not want to be acused of being patriarchs. I guess that irrationally bothers me :)

 

[Liberty]

no but it becomes a problem when they start crying sexism everywhere, and people start to measure with double standards. I know a lot of anecdotes where a woman is hired vs 10 male candidates because she was the only candidate without looking at her capabilities. Just because they did not want to be acused of being patriarchs. I guess that irrationally bothers me :)

 

That is a real problem.

 

But if you want to discuss double standards, I often see this where people take a relatively small problem and blow it all out of proportion and get outraged at it, and then take a massively bigger problem and minimize it until they can brush it off. Why? Because if they kept things in perspective and stayed coherent in their views, it would be inconvenient to them.

 

Is it a problem that there are false reports of rape? Sure, absolutely. Does that make all the real rapes any less problematic? No. They are two separate problems, with one being much, much more frequent than the other.

 

Abuses mades in the name of feminism or the fight against sexism don't mean that there's not a real problem. If you get outraged at this unfairness, you should be at least as outraged at the much more frequent injustice of women being treated badly or condescended to simply because they are women (regardless of anything else, it's never right when a man doing or saying the exact same thing as a woman in the same situation gets a much better outcome, or avoids negative crap). But most people aren't outraged at things that challenge their views, because they cherry pick evidence to confirm whatever belief they started out with in the first place...

[yadayada]

You taking offence on a very harmless comment I made illustrates the problem really.

 

The courts are basicly already in favor of women. Especially divorce courts.

 

Rape is not really a problem these days. Rape %'s are at all time lows and going lower every year. And you never really hear about male rape, or prison rape. Because of course when it happens to a man it is funny. Also false rape allegations should get a harsher punishment. This happens more then you think.

 

Those nude pictures being leaked of female celebrities. You hear some people even saying that looking at them is rape. Everyone is outraged. Yet when male nude pictures were leaked without their consent it was just funny and nobody was bothered by it much.

 

Then there is the myth of the pay gap. If you know statistics 101 you know this is not true and there is no such thing as a pay gap. Even Obama claimed it was a problem. I guess the day I lost respect for him.

 

And the ray rice incident also really showed the double standards. Basicly his girlfriend was in his face and physically attacked him first, nobody talks about that. ANd if he would have punched a skinny guy in the face after being provoked, probably nobody would be talking about that. After all that is what you get for pissing off and provoking a large athlete right???? Fact that his wife supported him probably shows you how biased the reaction to this incident was.

 

Then there is the myth that encouraging girls to play with barbies causes them to be less succesful in STEM fields. This has been debunked in various ways already.

 

And the general lack of responsibility that women have to take for their actions. If you get a girl pregnant, why is the man automatically financially responsible? If abortion or adoption is an option, why does he have no say about this, even though he is suposed to take responsibility? It should be that if you get pregnant, and the guy doesn't want the kid, girl should either  not keep it, or pay for the child herself. Trapping men with a baby is a more common problem then you think. For some reason women are absolved from responsibility when getting pregnant.

 

So really you tell me where women still have less rights. If anything we overshot when it comes to this stuff. I even hear women saying that we overshot the mark here. That should tell you something.

[Liberty]

You taking offence on a very harmless comment I made illustrates the problem really.

 

The courts are basicly already in favor of women. Especially divorce courts.

 

Rape is not really a problem these days. Rape %'s are at all time lows and going lower every year. And you never really hear about male rape, or prison rape. Because of course when it happens to a man it is funny. Also false rape allegations should get a harsher punishment. This happens more then you think.

 

Those nude pictures being leaked of female celebrities. You hear some people even saying that looking at them is rape. Everyone is outraged. Yet when male nude pictures were leaked without their consent it was just funny and nobody was bothered by it much.

 

Then there is the myth of the pay gap. If you know statistics 101 you know this is not true and there is no such thing as a pay gap. Even Obama claimed it was a problem. I guess the day I lost respect for him.

 

And the ray rice incident also really showed the double standards. Basicly his girlfriend was in his face and physically attacked him first, nobody talks about that. ANd if he would have punched a skinny guy in the face after being provoked, probably nobody would be talking about that. After all that is what you get for pissing off and provoking a large athlete right???? Fact that his wife supported him probably shows you how biased the reaction to this incident was.

 

Then there is the myth that encouraging girls to play with barbies causes them to be less succesful in STEM fields. This has been debunked in various ways already.

 

And the general lack of responsibility that women have to take for their actions. If you get a girl pregnant, why is the man automatically financially responsible? If abortion or adoption is an option, why does he have no say about this, even though he is suposed to take responsibility? It should be that if you get pregnant, and the guy doesn't want the kid, girl should either  not keep it, or pay for the child herself. Trapping men with a baby is a more common problem then you think. For some reason women are absolved from responsibility when getting pregnant.

 

So really you tell me where women still have less rights. If anything we overshot when it comes to this stuff. I even hear women saying that we overshot the mark here. That should tell you something.

 

Way to miss and prove my point.

[yadayada]

So basicly I name a lot of examples about why there is no such thing as a systematic problem of sexism against women, but it is more the other way around. And I prove and miss your point at the same time?

[Picasso]

While you guys take crotch shots at each other, I am curious who is voting female just to mess with the poll?

 

I know I am  ;D

[Liberty]

So basicly I name a lot of examples about why there is no such thing as a systematic problem of sexism against women, but it is more the other way around. And I prove and miss your point at the same time?

 

Yes.

[ERICOPOLY]

It's unclear how to vote if you are female trapped in a man's body.  The labeling of restrooms is ambiguous enough.

[alwaysinvert]

 

Abuses mades in the name of feminism or the fight against sexism don't mean that there's not a real problem. If you get outraged at this unfairness, you should be at least as outraged at the much more frequent injustice of women being treated badly or condescended to simply because they are women (regardless of anything else, it's never right when a man doing or saying the exact same thing as a woman in the same situation gets a much better outcome, or avoids negative crap). But most people aren't outraged at things that challenge their views, because they cherry pick evidence to confirm whatever belief they started out with in the first place...

Why do you claim to know that's the case? It could just as well be that women are more upset by slights than men*. If gender stereotyping/injustice towards women is more common than gender stereotyping towards men is as far as I know not known. But I'd make a bold guess and say it's about the same for both sexes. After all, stereotypes exist for a reason, be they good or bad - or wrong. One thing that many people never think about is that women are seen as inherently more valuable for who they are (for natural biological reasons), while men are valued on what they do. That's also probably why you see such a huge, huge gender imbalance among the homeless. 

 

*From what I've read (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/04/men-are-harassed-more-than-women-online.html), males receive more abuse online than females, for example. You wouldn't know this from the discourse, because we, both men and women, are primed to care for females under distress. That, and the abused males "suck it up" or plain just don't care very much. 

[cobafdek]

I guess I inadvertently succeeded in striking a nerve with the thread title.

 

Maybe I should have used the wording of the actual poll question, the intent of which was to see how many of the roughly 2100 board members are atypical:  non-male and/or non-engineer.

 

Regardless, the resulting comments are revealing and entertaining.

[Otsog]

So basicly I name a lot of examples about why there is no such thing as a systematic problem of sexism against women, but it is more the other way around. And I prove and miss your point at the same time?

 

Your post was not very convincing at all.  It sounds like you just hang around /r/redpill and picked up some 'woe is me' white male entitlement talking points that lack anything substantive.

 

 

[Liberty]

 

Abuses mades in the name of feminism or the fight against sexism don't mean that there's not a real problem. If you get outraged at this unfairness, you should be at least as outraged at the much more frequent injustice of women being treated badly or condescended to simply because they are women (regardless of anything else, it's never right when a man doing or saying the exact same thing as a woman in the same situation gets a much better outcome, or avoids negative crap). But most people aren't outraged at things that challenge their views, because they cherry pick evidence to confirm whatever belief they started out with in the first place...

Why do you claim to know that's the case? It could just as well be that women are more upset by slights than men*. If gender stereotyping/injustice towards women is more common than gender stereotyping towards men is as far as I know not known. But I'd make a bold guess and say it's about the same for both sexes. After all, stereotypes exist for a reason, be they good or bad - or wrong. One thing that many people never think about is that women are seen as inherently more valuable for who they are (for natural biological reasons), while men are valued on what they do. That's also probably why you see such a huge, huge gender imbalance among the homeless. 

 

*From what I've read (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/04/men-are-harassed-more-than-women-online.html), males receive more abuse online than females, for example. You wouldn't know this from the discourse, because we, both men and women, are primed to care for females under distress. That, and the abused males "suck it up" or plain just don't care very much.

 

Next I'll be attempting to show you that people with "black" or "brown" skin are often treated differently, and mostly worse, than people with "white" skin... And that despite the fact that people with "white" skin also have problems, this doesn't make racism okay and it's possible for two separate issues to exist at the same time.  No thanks.

[yadayada]

So basicly I name a lot of examples about why there is no such thing as a systematic problem of sexism against women, but it is more the other way around. And I prove and miss your point at the same time?

 

Your post was not very convincing at all.  It sounds like you just hang around /r/redpill and picked up some 'woe is me' white male entitlement talking points that lack anything substantive.

 

well make counterpoints then. Why are they not convincing? That is what bothers me about this discussion, if you try to use logic your automatically sexist.

 

Also this all started when I said something that was clearly not sexist, and was somehow seen as sexist by Liberty. Basicly discrimination against women and women being opressed is not really a problem anymore and my point is that men are treated more unfairly then women in the western world. And the law is more biased against men. Please come with counterpoints if you disagree.

[merkhet]

I suspect that some of the differences of opinion here emanate from a similar concept as the following

 

http://qz.com/257474/what-riding-my-bike-has-taught-me-about-white-privilege/

[Otsog]

well make counterpoints then. Why are they not convincing? That is what bothers me about this discussion, if you try to use logic your automatically sexist.

 

Also this all started when I said something that was clearly not sexist, and was somehow seen as sexist by Liberty. Basicly discrimination against women and women being opressed is not really a problem anymore and my point is that men are treated more unfairly then women in the western world. And the law is more biased against men. Please come with counterpoints if you disagree.

 

Liberty's comment was benign, I don't see where anyone has called you a sexist?

 

I'm not sure where to begin, why don't you think rape is a problem?

[augustabound]

well make counterpoints then. Why are they not convincing? That is what bothers me about this discussion, if you try to use logic your automatically sexist.

 

Also this all started when I said something that was clearly not sexist, and was somehow seen as sexist by Liberty. Basicly discrimination against women and women being opressed is not really a problem anymore and my point is that men are treated more unfairly then women in the western world. And the law is more biased against men. Please come with counterpoints if you disagree.

 

Liberty's comment was benign, I don't see where anyone has called you a sexist?

 

I'm not sure where to begin, why don't you think rape is a problem?

 

Yeah, the rape and Ray Rice comments both.

One rape is a problem, less rapes this year than last year, still a problem.

Ray Rice is twice her size and could put her in the hospital. As far as her defending him, that's common of a victim.

 

The problem seems to be you (yada), make statements like "it's been debunked". By who?

"Studies have shown", which studies and by which institutions or independents?

 

Generalities rarely win people over. I know this because I used to do it (and still do at times).

 

This is all just your opinion, which you are entitled to of course but if you're trying to prove or disprove something, you need facts to back it up.

 

[alwaysinvert]

 

Abuses mades in the name of feminism or the fight against sexism don't mean that there's not a real problem. If you get outraged at this unfairness, you should be at least as outraged at the much more frequent injustice of women being treated badly or condescended to simply because they are women (regardless of anything else, it's never right when a man doing or saying the exact same thing as a woman in the same situation gets a much better outcome, or avoids negative crap). But most people aren't outraged at things that challenge their views, because they cherry pick evidence to confirm whatever belief they started out with in the first place...

Why do you claim to know that's the case? It could just as well be that women are more upset by slights than men*. If gender stereotyping/injustice towards women is more common than gender stereotyping towards men is as far as I know not known. But I'd make a bold guess and say it's about the same for both sexes. After all, stereotypes exist for a reason, be they good or bad - or wrong. One thing that many people never think about is that women are seen as inherently more valuable for who they are (for natural biological reasons), while men are valued on what they do. That's also probably why you see such a huge, huge gender imbalance among the homeless. 

 

*From what I've read (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/04/men-are-harassed-more-than-women-online.html), males receive more abuse online than females, for example. You wouldn't know this from the discourse, because we, both men and women, are primed to care for females under distress. That, and the abused males "suck it up" or plain just don't care very much.

 

Next I'll be attempting to show you that people with "black" or "brown" skin are often treated differently, and mostly worse, than people with "white" skin... And that despite the fact that people with "white" skin also have problems, this doesn't make racism okay and it's possible for two separate issues to exist at the same time.  No thanks.

It is okay for two separate issues to exist at once, yes, and they certainly do. But you claimed something which you could not back up, i.e that women are treated badly more often than men. The fact that you and others feel that this is the case doesn't make it true. It just makes you emotional.

 

I wasn't trying to tally up oppression points against each gender, but making some counterpoints to your statement. If we don't have hard data, and everyone are biased by their priors, I find the position that discrimination exists in roughly equal measures towards both genders to be a reasonable starting point.

[Mephistopheles]

Ladies, a/l??