Jump to content

AGN - Allergan


giofranchi

Recommended Posts

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-14/paulson-hedge-funds-said-to-plunge-in-september-as-stocks-fell

 

Paulson’s four largest disclosed U.S. stock holdings at the end of the second quarter -- the most recent date for which such data are available -- were health-care companies. Allergan Plc, Valeant Pharmaceuticals International Inc., Shire Plc and Mylan NV all fell more than 10 percent in September, a month in which the S&P 500 Health Care Sector Index dropped 5.8 percent.

 

Classic Paulson. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 70
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • 2 weeks later...

The gio thread no one cared about might be the best performing one.

 

Picasso,

I understand some people like to be sarcastic for sarcasm’s sake… But you seem to know all the “gio threads”, while I don’t know any “Picasso thread”… So, are you criticizing without getting any exposure to criticism yourself? Do you think it is fair? ???

 

So, let’s do the following if you’d agree. You are very aware of what I look for: the best compromise between quality of business + quality of management and stock price I can find. Instead of sarcastically commenting my threads, won’t you let me know some ideas of yours? If you know businesses that are of a higher quality, led by more capable and more reliable operators, and which could be bought at more attractive prices, than the businesses I own right now, I will be very glad to take them into serious consideration.

Believe me: I couldn’t care less they are your ideas, not mine. If you convince me your ideas are actually better, I’ll sell mine and buy yours without any problem.

 

Cheers,

 

Gio

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest neiljgsingh

Very interesting company and growth prospects. Enjoyed a nice bump these past few days on the Pfizer news. Ken Fisher's view I think is right---AGN isn't viewed correctly by institutional investors and has enjoyed very little support from actively managed funds (the passives are all in it, of course). What few actives own AGN still see it as an alternative to some of the better-known generics, but of course the business is shifting from there dramatically. This dislocation/misunderstanding is probably due in part to the Actavis merger that's still underway. A few more good quarters and we should see some change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Allergan Reports Exceptional Third Quarter 2015 Continuing Operations Performance with 90% Increase in Net Revenue to $4.1 Billion and 65% Growth in Non-GAAP EPS to $3.48

 

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/allergan-reports-exceptional-third-quarter-2015-continuing-operations-performance-with-90-increase-in-net-revenue-to-41-billion-and-65-growth-in-non-gaap-eps-to-348-300172007.html

 

Cheers,

 

Gio

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really hope Pfizer-Gan doesn't happen.

 

Am I right in saying that there's no way the deal makes economic sense unless they pull a tax inversion on Pfizer?  If not it would be a reverse tax inversion right?

 

I feel like tax-inverting Pfizer would create a LOT of political motivation to scurtinize the industry even more - plus it rules out the possibility of picking up AGN sometime in the future, possibly even as the result of deal fallout.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Grey512

I really hope Pfizer-Gan doesn't happen.

 

Am I right in saying that there's no way the deal makes economic sense unless they pull a tax inversion on Pfizer?  If not it would be a reverse tax inversion right?

 

I feel like tax-inverting Pfizer would create a LOT of political motivation to scurtinize the industry even more - plus it rules out the possibility of picking up AGN sometime in the future, possibly even as the result of deal fallout.

 

That's what worried me so I'm out of AGN now. Hoping to buy again when the merger dies and AGN trades down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest wellmont

Allergan is a roll-up of many companies (aka platform company). Over the last few years, they did some huge deals... How come it doesn't have the same issues as VRX? They are just better at buying companies, growing sales, RD, managing debt and etc?

 

they did not push the limits of credulity like vrx did. there are limits as vrx is finding out, to balance sheet, to opacity, to arrogance, to deals, to transparency, to slashing, to prices. And agn was smart not to push things to those limits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm surprised this isn't up:

 

According to informed sources, Pfizer (PFE -3.9%) and Allergan (AGN -2.6%) are negotiating a break-up fee of 2 - 3% of Pfizer's potential bid of $150B for the BOTOX maker. The upper range of the fee, $4.5B, sends a clear signal that Pfizer does not view the Treasury Department's upcoming anti-inversion regulations as an impediment to a deal.

 

Previously: Pfizer said to be near deal to buy Allergan for as much as $380/share (Nov. 18)

 

I know the anti-inversion proposal is pretty damning but this is trading at 25% discount to the rumored deal?  If it's so unlikely what's up with the huge breakup fee?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest wellmont

att screwed up their regulatory analysis when they tried to buy tmus. they ended up having to cough up a massive break up fee. buyers can get the regulatory analysis way wrong. comcast got it wrong about twc, but there was no break up fee involved, which was strange.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's going to be a lot of new Pfizer shares on the market if this deal gets done, and probably a lot of initial selling pressure.  I'm surprised by how little cash consideration there is.  Does Pfizer think their shares are overvalued or something?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Allergan is a roll-up of many companies (aka platform company). Over the last few years, they did some huge deals... How come it doesn't have the same issues as VRX? They are just better at buying companies, growing sales, RD, managing debt and etc?

 

they did not push the limits of credulity like vrx did. there are limits as vrx is finding out, to balance sheet, to opacity, to arrogance, to deals, to transparency, to slashing, to prices. And agn was smart not to push things to those limits.

 

There's only 1 real difference between AGN and VRX IMO - in AGN's case Saunders was clever enough to "pin" the stock price by listing the entire business as sold.  By reflexivity, AGN/ VRX used precisely the same rollup/ pricing strategy to achieve their sales growth, and both misrepresented nature of said growth to their investors (see recent email chain between Schiller/ Pearson).  Teva is set to pay a huge overvaluation for the generics business (we already know based on VRX's disclosures that their organic growth rates are primarily price based), and Pfizer to pay a lesser (in the tune of mergermania) premium for the rest.  Saunders knew the M&A market was overheated and figured PFE would collapse less than most (which is why he ignored VRX and AMGN).  This is very reminiscent of the Sprint/ Worldcom merger, which is why I'm betting against it.

 

Now, once the Teva deal closes that drives a wedge between the two in the sense that AGN really will have more cash, enough to cancel the debt and leave it with what PFE will buy, which is still valued at the incorrect growth rate (through leveraged growth/ price hikes).  That's the kicker.  And PFE or the gov't will realize this in the midst of an all-out bear market.  So it's not the kind of clean play that VRX was, but it's a good one nonetheless IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Saunders knew the M&A market was overheated and figured PFE would collapse less than most (which is why he ignored VRX and AMGN).  This is very reminiscent of the Sprint/ Worldcom merger, which is why I'm betting against it.

 

Are you betting the merger is not going through in the end? Or that PFE is going to have trouble and decline after the merger has happened?

 

Cheers,

 

Gio

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Gio!  I remember you took me to task on my VRX article, which I ended up appreciating because most people just ignored it.  Anyway, I'm basically betting the merger will either not go through or be "substantially renegotiated," and that this news will be a catalyst for reevaluation by the market at the unlevered, volume-based growth rate.  Unlike most people I think the monopoly concern will be greater than the inversion concern for regulators.  At this point it is one in a bucket of puts; I posted my portfolio on the "Value Meets Macro" strategy thread.

 

Cheers,

Graham

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...