Jurgis Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Anecdotally: The only Amex card I have is Fidelity Amex that gives 2% cash back on everything. If (when) they replace that with non-Amex card, I might get no-annual-fee Amex (Blue or similar), but I won't use it much if at all. I'll mostly use whatever card gives 2% cash on everything (right now I think Citi is the only other option, Cap One has 1.5% on everything). Like TwoCitiesCapital says, upper tier high-annual-fee Amex cards might be attractive to some people, but it's not clear how many Costco cardholders will get Amex card and will use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Anecdotally: The only Amex card I have is Fidelity Amex that gives 2% cash back on everything. Hate to throw a tangent out there, but what is (was) the deal with this card exactly? It runs through the AMEX network but seems otherwise owned/managed/underwritten by FIA/BofA...how do the economics of that card look to AMEX v. a typical AMEX card? Does anybody know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgis Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Anecdotally: The only Amex card I have is Fidelity Amex that gives 2% cash back on everything. Hate to throw a tangent out there, but what is (was) the deal with this card exactly? It runs through the AMEX network but seems otherwise owned/managed/underwritten by FIA/BofA...how do the economics of that card look to AMEX v. a typical AMEX card? Does anybody know? From what I've heard in the past, the cobranded cards have crappier economics for Amex than pure Amex cards. OTOH, the benefits are also provided by BofA (I think), so some of the costs are not Amex's. In short, there has been a claim that pure Amex cards have higher margins/benefits for Amex compared to non-Amex managed cobranded cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lschmidt Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Another anecdote, in case these have any value. I will be switching to the Amex Blue card this summer after the Costco card expiry, as will all of my family members. We all take great effort to put as many charges on Amex as possible because of the customer service and enhanced consumer protection. They have a culture of going to greater length to please their customers. For example, the handled a foreign rental car accident claim in a superior way to another card. They resolved a double charge on a train ticket without fuss. They've settled a dispute with a charge by a flooring company in a hassle-free way. They handled a lost baggage problem with an airline without my having to be involved. This peace of mind is highly motivating to me and to my family to avoid other cards. I think there is significant goodwill built into that culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnejad Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Another anecdote, in case these have any value. I will be switching to the Amex Blue card this summer after the Costco card expiry, as will all of my family members. We all take great effort to put as many charges on Amex as possible because of the customer service and enhanced consumer protection. They have a culture of going to greater length to please their customers. For example, the handled a foreign rental car accident claim in a superior way to another card. They resolved a double charge on a train ticket without fuss. They've settled a dispute with a charge by a flooring company in a hassle-free way. They handled a lost baggage problem with an airline without my having to be involved. This peace of mind is highly motivating to me and to my family to avoid other cards. I think there is significant goodwill built into that culture. Which sums up my way of thinking on the subject. If they only owned an AmEx through Costco, it's likely that the benefits of a travel card were lost on them (which is why they didn't have another AmEx travel card to begin with) and there's no reason for that to change just because Costco terminated the relationship and will be sending them a new card with a different logo in the corner. I fall under this category, except the AmEx card was the only credit card I was using, so I plan on now getting a new one for the above mentioned reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bargainman Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Pretty sweet new card... http://fortune.com/2016/03/30/costco-visa/ The Citi card will offer Costco members 4% cash back on up to $7,000 spent on gas, compared to 3% back up to $4,000 with Amex. Cardholders will also get 3% back on restaurants and travel, a point higher than with the Amex cards. https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/creditcards/citi.action?ID=citi-costco-credit-card-conversion also 2% back for costco purchases.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCitiesCapital Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Pretty sweet new card... http://fortune.com/2016/03/30/costco-visa/ The Citi card will offer Costco members 4% cash back on up to $7,000 spent on gas, compared to 3% back up to $4,000 with Amex. Cardholders will also get 3% back on restaurants and travel, a point higher than with the Amex cards. https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/creditcards/citi.action?ID=citi-costco-credit-card-conversion also 2% back for costco purchases.. Citi must really, really be banking on the interest they're going to charge on carried balances because they're going to be losing money every time there is a transaction for gas, travel, a meal at a restaurant, and likely for every purchase at Costco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaceliacapital Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I don't understand why CostCo doesn't work with SYF or ADS.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTEJD1997 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Pretty sweet new card... http://fortune.com/2016/03/30/costco-visa/ The Citi card will offer Costco members 4% cash back on up to $7,000 spent on gas, compared to 3% back up to $4,000 with Amex. Cardholders will also get 3% back on restaurants and travel, a point higher than with the Amex cards. https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/creditcards/citi.action?ID=citi-costco-credit-card-conversion also 2% back for costco purchases.. Citi must really, really be banking on the interest they're going to charge on carried balances because they're going to be losing money every time there is a transaction for gas, travel, a meal at a restaurant, and likely for every purchase at Costco. I don't see how that is going to happen...My guess is that a lot of Costco shoppers WON'T carry significant balances... Perhaps Citi is banking on selling them other financial services? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green King Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Pretty sweet new card... http://fortune.com/2016/03/30/costco-visa/ The Citi card will offer Costco members 4% cash back on up to $7,000 spent on gas, compared to 3% back up to $4,000 with Amex. Cardholders will also get 3% back on restaurants and travel, a point higher than with the Amex cards. https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/creditcards/citi.action?ID=citi-costco-credit-card-conversion also 2% back for costco purchases.. Citi must really, really be banking on the interest they're going to charge on carried balances because they're going to be losing money every time there is a transaction for gas, travel, a meal at a restaurant, and likely for every purchase at Costco. Can you clarify how you reach that conclusion? TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCitiesCapital Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Pretty sweet new card... http://fortune.com/2016/03/30/costco-visa/ The Citi card will offer Costco members 4% cash back on up to $7,000 spent on gas, compared to 3% back up to $4,000 with Amex. Cardholders will also get 3% back on restaurants and travel, a point higher than with the Amex cards. https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/creditcards/citi.action?ID=citi-costco-credit-card-conversion also 2% back for costco purchases.. Citi must really, really be banking on the interest they're going to charge on carried balances because they're going to be losing money every time there is a transaction for gas, travel, a meal at a restaurant, and likely for every purchase at Costco. Can you clarify how you reach that conclusion? TIA Because American Express' fees are considered to be extremely high and they charge 2 - 2.5% per transaction. With these partnerships, I'd imagine that AmEx charges even less (as would Citi). So if we know that 2 - 2.5% is the high end, and that Citi is significantly below that level, and that these partnership type deals are even lower, then my guess would be that Citi is only earning 1% or less on every transaction. When you're earning 1%, or less, on each transaction and paying out 2, 3, and 4% on each transaction, you're in the hole by 1, 2, and 3% of each transaction at minimum. That's a deep hole to climb out of on interest accruals and the fees earned on non-promotional purchases. I don't see how that is going to happen...My guess is that a lot of Costco shoppers WON'T carry significant balances... Perhaps Citi is banking on selling them other financial services? Yea...that's my thought too. I am skeptical that this is an economic deal for Citi in any way, shape, or form. I guess the question is why they'd do it otherwise though? Surely they know the types of consumers they were competing for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Hamilton Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Pretty sweet new card... http://fortune.com/2016/03/30/costco-visa/ The Citi card will offer Costco members 4% cash back on up to $7,000 spent on gas, compared to 3% back up to $4,000 with Amex. Cardholders will also get 3% back on restaurants and travel, a point higher than with the Amex cards. https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/creditcards/citi.action?ID=citi-costco-credit-card-conversion also 2% back for costco purchases.. Citi must really, really be banking on the interest they're going to charge on carried balances because they're going to be losing money every time there is a transaction for gas, travel, a meal at a restaurant, and likely for every purchase at Costco. Can you clarify how you reach that conclusion? TIA Because American Express' fees are considered to be extremely high and they charge 2 - 2.5% per transaction. With these partnerships, I'd imagine that AmEx charges even less (as would Citi). So if we know that 2 - 2.5% is the high end, and that Citi is significantly below that level, and that these partnership type deals are even lower, then my guess would be that Citi is only earning 1% or less on every transaction. When you're earning 1%, or less, on each transaction and paying out 2, 3, and 4% on each transaction, you're in the hole by 1, 2, and 3% of each transaction at minimum. That's a deep hole to climb out of on interest accruals and the fees earned on non-promotional purchases. I don't see how that is going to happen...My guess is that a lot of Costco shoppers WON'T carry significant balances... Perhaps Citi is banking on selling them other financial services? Yea...that's my thought too. I am skeptical that this is an economic deal for Citi in any way, shape, or form. I guess the question is why they'd do it otherwise though? Surely they know the types of consumers they were competing for? It's super competitive, but the 1% on everything else likely drives the blended rewards down meaningfully. We'll see though. Curious to see if this leads to a further rewards improvement from Cap One/BarclayCard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boilermaker75 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 AXP launches cards for SCHW, http://finance.yahoo.com/news/american-express-launches-two-co-130000033.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclecticvalue Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 "The American Express Platinum Card® for Schwab gives clients excellent rewards, benefits, and services with the added ability to redeem Membership Rewards® points for deposits by Schwab into a linked Schwab brokerage account(1) at the rate of 1,000 points for a $12.50 deposit." The possibilities............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 It's super competitive, but the 1% on everything else likely drives the blended rewards down meaningfully. We'll see though. Curious to see if this leads to a further rewards improvement from Cap One/BarclayCard. It'll be interesting to see (know?) how long the contract on this card locks Citi into this reward structure. They've done some major belt-tightening on other cards just as recently as this year. I think there are too many people who optimize spending across multiple cards for the "1% on everything else" to be much of a savior... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJ Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 Pretty sweet new card... http://fortune.com/2016/03/30/costco-visa/ The Citi card will offer Costco members 4% cash back on up to $7,000 spent on gas, compared to 3% back up to $4,000 with Amex. Cardholders will also get 3% back on restaurants and travel, a point higher than with the Amex cards. https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/creditcards/citi.action?ID=citi-costco-credit-card-conversion also 2% back for costco purchases.. Citi must really, really be banking on the interest they're going to charge on carried balances because they're going to be losing money every time there is a transaction for gas, travel, a meal at a restaurant, and likely for every purchase at Costco. Can you clarify how you reach that conclusion? TIA Because American Express' fees are considered to be extremely high and they charge 2 - 2.5% per transaction. With these partnerships, I'd imagine that AmEx charges even less (as would Citi). So if we know that 2 - 2.5% is the high end, and that Citi is significantly below that level, and that these partnership type deals are even lower, then my guess would be that Citi is only earning 1% or less on every transaction. When you're earning 1%, or less, on each transaction and paying out 2, 3, and 4% on each transaction, you're in the hole by 1, 2, and 3% of each transaction at minimum. That's a deep hole to climb out of on interest accruals and the fees earned on non-promotional purchases. I don't see how that is going to happen...My guess is that a lot of Costco shoppers WON'T carry significant balances... Perhaps Citi is banking on selling them other financial services? Yea...that's my thought too. I am skeptical that this is an economic deal for Citi in any way, shape, or form. I guess the question is why they'd do it otherwise though? Surely they know the types of consumers they were competing for? At the time of the switch, Amex have disclosed that it accounted for 20% of their loan portfolio, which come out to $13-14 billion. There's no reason to believe that over time the Costco portfolio at Citi wouldn't come out to be similar or greater size. At the time that the deal was announced, Bloomberg reported that Citi was going to charge Costco basically zero for in store transactions vs. around 0.60% at Amex. It also accounts for 8% of Amex's worldwide spend, which for 2014 came out to be around $80 billion, some of which is in store, some out. Costco could also be contributing to this reward structure. It is, after all, supposed to be a partnership. But if you assume most of the gas spend on this card is going to be with Costco's gas station, all they need to do on the gas portion, is to mark up their own gas price by 4%, which would still be lower than most gas station prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCitiesCapital Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-23/costco-citi-deluged-by-complaints-in-rocky-credit-card-rollout schadenfreude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpRaider Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I saw that story. Pretty interesting. Personally, I got my cards last week and activated and wife used earlier this week without incident. The cash back rewards are better. Do these people not have other Visa cards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfp Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 The process must be easier if you do it online and already have other Citi cards (not visa cards). We got ours, registered them online and they were automatically linked to our other citi card and there was certainly no phone call involved. I guess some people just want to use the phone... I saw that story. Pretty interesting. Personally, I got my cards last week and activated and wife used earlier this week without incident. The cash back rewards are better. Do these people not have other Visa cards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valueinvesting101 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 As per article, saving for Costco was around 60-150 million. Is that number reasonable? Drop in AXP since they lost the deal is significant considering it was such a small number which they let go. On the side note, does Costco accepts any other credit card? I got email from Bank of American informing, 2% cash back on Costco purchases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkhet Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 As per article, saving for Costco was around 60-150 million. Is that number reasonable? Drop in AXP since they lost the deal is significant considering it was such a small number which they let go. On the side note, does Costco accepts any other credit card? I got email from Bank of American informing, 2% cash back on Costco purchases. Costco will accept any Visa card now, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 As per article, saving for Costco was around 60-150 million. Is that number reasonable? Drop in AXP since they lost the deal is significant considering it was such a small number which they let go. On the side note, does Costco accepts any other credit card? I got email from Bank of American informing, 2% cash back on Costco purchases. Costco will accept any Visa card now, I think. Yes any Visa now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sys Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 On the side note, does Costco accepts any other credit card? I got email from Bank of American informing, 2% cash back on Costco purchases. chase freedom is giving 5% on costco for the next three months. can be changed to ur points if you have a chase ur earning card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpRaider Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 The process must be easier if you do it online and already have other Citi cards (not visa cards). We got ours, registered them online and they were automatically linked to our other citi card and there was certainly no phone call involved. I guess some people just want to use the phone... I saw that story. Pretty interesting. Personally, I got my cards last week and activated and wife used earlier this week without incident. The cash back rewards are better. Do these people not have other Visa cards? Poor boomers. No internet and no visa cards. ;D Yeah it is funny, I never had a citi card in my life and now I've got two that I will probably be using more than any others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCitiesCapital Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 The process must be easier if you do it online and already have other Citi cards (not visa cards). We got ours, registered them online and they were automatically linked to our other citi card and there was certainly no phone call involved. I guess some people just want to use the phone... I saw that story. Pretty interesting. Personally, I got my cards last week and activated and wife used earlier this week without incident. The cash back rewards are better. Do these people not have other Visa cards? Poor boomers. No internet and no visa cards. ;D Yeah it is funny, I never had a citi card in my life and now I'll probably be using the costco and the 2% cash back one they have for a lot of my spending. I think AmEx is more about the soft benefits that vary than the strict cash back analysis. Problems like people are having with Citi right now don't typically happen with AmEx. In fact, I've only owned an AmEx card for 3 years and that experience propelled them to being one of my favorite companies in the world simply because they're customer service has been unparalleled. I think part of AmEx's problem is that their benefits aren't "tangible" or easily marketed for some of their higher end cards. People may look at the Platinum card's 1% back in points and think it's not very competitive, but over the last 12 months I've: 1) Received a $450 rebate on a watch that I purchased just by using my AmEx 2) Saved ~$200 on regular purchases at vendors like Walmart, Jet.com, Amazon, Uber, etc. through offers/rebates from using my AmEx card 3) Received Global Entry/TSA Pre-check for free which has done incredible things in reducing the stress of traveling 4) Received free lounge access when I fly which includes free food/drinks and a quiet environment which has also done wonders for the stress of traveling (probably used 5 or 6 times in the last 12 months) 5) Received $200 in airline incidentals (baggage fees, gift cards used towards flights, drinks, etc.) 6) Received Gold Status at Hilton for free which resulted in me getting a free room upgrade, fee Wi-Fi, free breakfast, and one night free when I spent a week at a Hilton in Toronto. 7) Allowed me to purchase tickets to Hamilton at face value when it's sold out for the next 6-9 months and tickets range in price from $800-$3000 on re-sale 8) Rebooked one of my flights on Delta when a delay was going to cause me to miss my transfer. The Delta representative that I had spoken with prior to calling AmEx was unable to do so. 9) Free Uber rides home from the airport surrounding Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years I mean, that's all on top of the 1-2% back in points. I get it that if you don't travel, a lot of those benefits are lost on you and it may not be the best card for everyone, but it just seems it's not just about the cash rewards or points that a card has. I have so much more appreciation for the softer benefits now that I've used AmEx for 3 years. AmEx has significantly improved my quality of life, particularly within travel. I can't say that any for any other card - but it they also don't really seem to get that across in their marketing for people to consider when comparing benefits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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