justinbaka Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Hi guys, Due to certain workload in the future, I was thinking of becoming more passive with my investments, by reallocating some of my individual stock purchases into investment holding companies or exchange listed funds (allowing people with better focus, skills and temperament to manage the funds per se). Would like to hear some recommendations from you guys for these sort of opportunities in USA, Hong Kong, Australia or anywhere else actually =) Investment holding companies such as Berkshire Hathaway, Markel (where they are investing in businesses), maybe Cheung Kong in Hong Kong. Exchange listed funds such as the Magellan Global Equities Fund or the upcoming Platinum Asia Investment in Australia ASX. I believe the upcoming Dhadho Holdings also qualifies as one. Would be grateful for some recommendations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grey512 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Two reasonable equities in re-insurance companies benefitting from the investment skill of Third Point and Greenlight Capital: Greenlight Re ThirdPoint Re Pershing Square (Bill Ackman) also has a listed vehicle which somewhat mirrors his investment performance: Pershing Square Holdings Of course, there's also a variety of larger / diversified asset managers you could invest in. I like these three: Pzena Fortress Oaktree Then there's Morningstar's MOAT product (symbol: MOAT), which uses the classic Morningstar approach to focus on companies' competitive advantages. I'll come back to this thread and post more if I think any more over the next few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliG Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/strategies/most-interesting-%27value%27-etfs/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinbaka Posted August 20, 2015 Author Share Posted August 20, 2015 Thanks Grey and Elig! It's good to have a few for choices, so that when one is overvalued, can invest in those which are undervalued! Some would say Liberty Global is a "fund" for media companies as well, though would say it would be too cumbersome to value as a passive investing strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgis Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 It's not so trivial... I'm not picking on Grey512, since he just presented choices, but Two reasonable equities in re-insurance companies benefitting from the investment skill of Third Point and Greenlight Capital: Greenlight Re ThirdPoint Re Both GLRE and TPRE have crappy reinsurance results while Loeb and Einhorn are both underperforming indexes. Plus GLRE/TPRE are paying 2-and-20 to Einhorn/Loeb. So you are hit with triple negative. Pershing Square (Bill Ackman) also has a listed vehicle which somewhat mirrors his investment performance: Pershing Square Holdings Disclosure: I hold some PSHZF. You are paying Ackman 1.5-and-15 IIRC. He holds a lot of overpriced securities. Of course, there's also a variety of larger / diversified asset managers you could invest in. I like these three: Pzena Fortress Oaktree Asset managers are not ETFs. Holding asset manager stock is not the same as holding their mutual fund or ETF. Then there's Morningstar's MOAT product (symbol: MOAT), which uses the classic Morningstar approach to focus on companies' competitive advantages. MOAT might work. QVAL from the other thread might work. Some of the smaller/funkier ETFs from other thread are IMO too dicey. But ultimately it's your choice. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_free_lunch Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I agree with pretty much everything Jurgis said. I like moat because they are using qualitative factors to rank their stocks. In my mind that is superior to a purely quantitative approach. I mean if you look at a lot of the stocks discussed on this board many of them are not cheap based on tradional quantitative factors or if they are you need to do quite a few adjustments from GAAP. I don't always agree with the morningstar rankings but overall I like their methodology and you are getting it for a fairly modest fee. The one item I differ on is QVAL. Not that I am opposed to it but the results are still theoretical. I would really need to see a longer performance history before I bought in. One that I am considering is SWHEX. While they have underperformed the index since inception they have still done allright. It looks like they are up about 130% since 2002, while the S&P is up closer to 200%. I would expect them to continue to trail going forward over a full market cycle. However, they did quite well during 2009, with a drawdown not more than 25% versus 60% for the S&P. At this point in the cycle it is tempting to have money in something such as this due to their hedging. If the market continues to climb for another 3,4,5 years I might really regret having money sitting in cash so this seems to be a decent compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgis Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I won't argue about QVAL. I think it has potential, but we'll have to see how it works out. Overall, IMO it's very hard to beat total market market-cap weighted index for US. So, value etfs or even MOAT may not outperform. IMHO, internationally, actively managed funds are still better than index funds, since international index funds have a lot of issues (i.e. what do they contain, how companies/countries in them are weighted, etc.). I don't know if international value ETFs work well, I haven't looked honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_free_lunch Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I certainly wouldn't buy MOAT expecting it to out-perform. My thinking is that it should more or less track the S&P. However, in the event of a 1999 style sector-specific bubble I am hoping it can avoid some of that carnage. Also, while I don't *expect* it out-perform, I at least like to believe that it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerscorecard Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I would buy QVAL in a second if it were just the Magic Formula. I hesitate because of the tweaks, though they appear to make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violet_contamination Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 QVAL is good.. I would also take a look at VALX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no_free_lunch Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 A few more to consider. You are probably already quite familiar with these if you have been reading the board. Y LUK ELF.TO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowci Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 QVAL is good.. I would also take a look at VALX. Another one to check out is ALFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Falcon Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Any of the RAFI fundamental index ETFs. Asia Investment holding company I like Jardine Matheson Holdings. ASX listed LICs like Magellan Flagship Fund (MFF) then the traditional large LICs, AFI.ax / ARG.ax MLT.ax when entry point is below NTA. SVW.AX. BRK/MKL/Y. Fairfax , Bidvest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcollon Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Interview with Wes Gray thanks to ValueWalk http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/11/diy-financial-advisor-2/?utm_campaign=EMAIL_DAILY&utm_medium=email&utm_source=mailchimp&utm_content=quick_link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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