fareastwarriors Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 More inst $ money flowing in 169-Year-Old Insurer MassMutual Invests $100 Million in Bitcoin https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-10/169-year-old-insurer-massmutual-invests-100-million-in-bitcoin?srnd=premium Investment represents 0.04% of its general investment account Insurer also makes $5 million equity investment in NYDIG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCitiesCapital Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 More inst $ money flowing in 169-Year-Old Insurer MassMutual Invests $100 Million in Bitcoin https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-10/169-year-old-insurer-massmutual-invests-100-million-in-bitcoin?srnd=premium Investment represents 0.04% of its general investment account Insurer also makes $5 million equity investment in NYDIG Might only be a small amount for the general equity - but buys like this matter. Roughly 10% of daily BTC volume here and is transferring more BTC to longer term holders with high cost basis. These coins aren't going to be available back on the market any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratiman Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 The "market cap" of bitcoin is $360 billion, roughly. Nobody would suggest that the Walmart float could be cornered, how is bitcoin different? There is unlimited supply of bitcoin because it can be shorted and there are futures. There is no shortage of bitcoin in fact there is so much bitcoin that bitcoin fanboys have to constantly pump it to keep it going. You don't see Walmart shareholders constantly pumping because they don't have to. You don't see Walmart shareholders saying "Look an insurance company bought some Walmart. This thing is unstoppable! Buy Walmart!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepupil Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 Appreciate the ripple commentary guys, the company seems like a good SPAC target! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted December 11, 2020 Author Share Posted December 11, 2020 You don't see Walmart shareholders saying "Look an insurance company bought some Walmart. This thing is unstoppable! Buy Walmart!" Had someone said that when Walmart was only 14 years old they would have been 100% correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCitiesCapital Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 You don't see Walmart shareholders saying "Look an insurance company bought some Walmart. This thing is unstoppable! Buy Walmart!" Had someone said that when Walmart was only 14 years old they would have been 100% correct. The full market cap isn't available for sale due to lost coins, satoshi's stash which might also be lost, and new institutional demand with cost basis of ~18-20k which likely won't be made available for sale until prices are significantly higher, or lower, than they are today. There is a finite amount of Bitcoin available, even considering additional "supply" from leveraged derivative products. And like any physical commodity, selling too many future claims on physical ownership leads to squeezes - BTC will be no different. The fact of the matter is that daily volume is ~$1B across all exchanges on average. If Walmart was a company with no institutional following//investors with only retail hobbyists following it that all of the sudden had billionaire hedge fund investors buying it, major corporations adopting signing on as "customers", and major institutions publicly signing on to buy ~$1B of it's stock over the course of 4-6 weeks, then I imagine you'd be hearing similar things about Walmart. It's not the intrinsic "value" driving this these - it's very difficult to come up with a value for this. But I can tell you that flows measuring billions into an asset class defined by fixed supply does tend to lead to higher prices. No guarantees, but the set-up is favorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregmal Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 I don't know why we'd be comparing Walmart, a company/business to an asset class. I dont hear anyone talking about how Berkshire Hathaway is nice and shiny and can be tucked into their pocket and turned into jewelry, but I do for gold...LOL WTF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted December 11, 2020 Author Share Posted December 11, 2020 I don't know why we'd be comparing Walmart, a company/business to an asset class. I dont hear anyone talking about how Berkshire Hathaway is nice and shiny and can be tucked into their pocket and turned into jewelry, but I do for gold...LOL WTF Some enjoy fondling the cube and others enjoy fondling their bits. I'm a bit-man myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 Bitwise Crypto Trust Jumps 72% Since Debut While Market Sags Firm says trust is first publicly traded index fund in U.S. Bitcoin accounts for about 75% of Bitwise index trust The market-cap-weighted fund is 75% Bitcoin and 13% Ethereum, with the remaining 12% allocations across XRP, Litecoin, Chainlink, Tezos and other cryptocurrencies. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-11/bitwise-crypto-trust-jumps-72-since-debut-while-market-sags?srnd=premium This manager is gonna earn some nice AUM fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregmal Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Broke $20k. Go get em, Robinhood. Unleash the Kraken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Bitcoin Whale Emerges With $1 Billion, Alan Howard’s Backing https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-16/bitcoin-whale-surfaces-with-1-billion-and-alan-howard-s-backing?srnd=premium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregmal Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 This is the stuff legends are made of! https://seekingalpha.com/news/3645062-bitcoin-worth-400k-says-guggenheims-scott-minerd-crypto-roundup Minerd says his team's fundamental work suggests Bitcoin should be worth $400K. I would imagine they are using a VERY liberal interpretation of the term "fundamental".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lessthaniv Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Bitwise Crypto Trust Jumps 72% Since Debut While Market Sags Firm says trust is first publicly traded index fund in U.S. Bitcoin accounts for about 75% of Bitwise index trust The market-cap-weighted fund is 75% Bitcoin and 13% Ethereum, with the remaining 12% allocations across XRP, Litecoin, Chainlink, Tezos and other cryptocurrencies. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-11/bitwise-crypto-trust-jumps-72-since-debut-while-market-sags?srnd=premium This manager is gonna earn some nice AUM fees. Nav today = $18.86 Close today = $139 Now that's some enthusiasm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnarkyPuppy Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Crypto, % Below all-time high... BitConnect: -100% ICON: -98% Qtum: -98% NEM: -98% Bitcoin Gold: -98% Bitcoin Cash: -97% Lisk: -97% Cardano: -97% NEO: -96% IOTA: -95% Dash: -95% zCash: -95% XRP: -92% TRON: -92% Ethereum: -92% Monero: -90% Litecoin: -89% EOS: -88% Bitcoin: -82% Long term value investor cites short term price fluctuations as indication of long term thesis success/failure I just poted numbers. I didn't make any comments. You did that. I just assumed you were letting the board know that crypto was on sale. Bitcoin +600% since this post. Doesn't produce cashflow though so cite some Munger quote and avoid independent thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregmal Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Yea there are many contrarian indicators throughout the history of this(and other) threads here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widenthemoat Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Crypto, % Below all-time high... BitConnect: -100% ICON: -98% Qtum: -98% NEM: -98% Bitcoin Gold: -98% Bitcoin Cash: -97% Lisk: -97% Cardano: -97% NEO: -96% IOTA: -95% Dash: -95% zCash: -95% XRP: -92% TRON: -92% Ethereum: -92% Monero: -90% Litecoin: -89% EOS: -88% Bitcoin: -82% Long term value investor cites short term price fluctuations as indication of long term thesis success/failure I just poted numbers. I didn't make any comments. You did that. I just assumed you were letting the board know that crypto was on sale. Bitcoin +600% since this post. Doesn't produce cashflow though so cite some Munger quote and avoid independent thinking. Correction: It doesn't produce anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnarkyPuppy Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Crypto, % Below all-time high... BitConnect: -100% ICON: -98% Qtum: -98% NEM: -98% Bitcoin Gold: -98% Bitcoin Cash: -97% Lisk: -97% Cardano: -97% NEO: -96% IOTA: -95% Dash: -95% zCash: -95% XRP: -92% TRON: -92% Ethereum: -92% Monero: -90% Litecoin: -89% EOS: -88% Bitcoin: -82% Long term value investor cites short term price fluctuations as indication of long term thesis success/failure I just poted numbers. I didn't make any comments. You did that. I just assumed you were letting the board know that crypto was on sale. Bitcoin +600% since this post. Doesn't produce cashflow though so cite some Munger quote and avoid independent thinking. Correction: It doesn't produce anything Very insightful- thanks. I was a huge Bitcoin bull until I learned that it doesn't produce anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widenthemoat Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Crypto, % Below all-time high... BitConnect: -100% ICON: -98% Qtum: -98% NEM: -98% Bitcoin Gold: -98% Bitcoin Cash: -97% Lisk: -97% Cardano: -97% NEO: -96% IOTA: -95% Dash: -95% zCash: -95% XRP: -92% TRON: -92% Ethereum: -92% Monero: -90% Litecoin: -89% EOS: -88% Bitcoin: -82% Long term value investor cites short term price fluctuations as indication of long term thesis success/failure I just poted numbers. I didn't make any comments. You did that. I just assumed you were letting the board know that crypto was on sale. Bitcoin +600% since this post. Doesn't produce cashflow though so cite some Munger quote and avoid independent thinking. Correction: It doesn't produce anything Very insightful- thanks. I was a huge Bitcoin bull until I learned that it doesn't produce anything. Problem is the bulls seem to become more bullish as the price goes up. Seems fishy to me, but it's not my money so do as you please. I wish you the best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted December 17, 2020 Author Share Posted December 17, 2020 Crypto, % Below all-time high... BitConnect: -100% ICON: -98% Qtum: -98% NEM: -98% Bitcoin Gold: -98% Bitcoin Cash: -97% Lisk: -97% Cardano: -97% NEO: -96% IOTA: -95% Dash: -95% zCash: -95% XRP: -92% TRON: -92% Ethereum: -92% Monero: -90% Litecoin: -89% EOS: -88% Bitcoin: -82% Long term value investor cites short term price fluctuations as indication of long term thesis success/failure I just poted numbers. I didn't make any comments. You did that. I just assumed you were letting the board know that crypto was on sale. Bitcoin +600% since this post. Doesn't produce cashflow though so cite some Munger quote and avoid independent thinking. Correction: It doesn't produce anything I used to think gold was valuable too until I heard that when you fondle the cube it will not respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widenthemoat Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Crypto, % Below all-time high... BitConnect: -100% ICON: -98% Qtum: -98% NEM: -98% Bitcoin Gold: -98% Bitcoin Cash: -97% Lisk: -97% Cardano: -97% NEO: -96% IOTA: -95% Dash: -95% zCash: -95% XRP: -92% TRON: -92% Ethereum: -92% Monero: -90% Litecoin: -89% EOS: -88% Bitcoin: -82% Long term value investor cites short term price fluctuations as indication of long term thesis success/failure I just poted numbers. I didn't make any comments. You did that. I just assumed you were letting the board know that crypto was on sale. Bitcoin +600% since this post. Doesn't produce cashflow though so cite some Munger quote and avoid independent thinking. Correction: It doesn't produce anything I used to think gold was valuable too until I heard that when you fondle the cube it will not respond. Gold has been a bit of a stinker of an investment in real terms over the long haul, hasn't it? If Bitcoin is the next gold, wouldn't it be fair to assume it would be a bit of a stinker over the long haul as well? If you could provide some numbers on how you calculate your intrinsic value I think that would help me a bit with understanding your position. Maybe I really am missing something, I dunno, but no one seems to be able to provide me any hard numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutch Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Crypto, % Below all-time high... BitConnect: -100% ICON: -98% Qtum: -98% NEM: -98% Bitcoin Gold: -98% Bitcoin Cash: -97% Lisk: -97% Cardano: -97% NEO: -96% IOTA: -95% Dash: -95% zCash: -95% XRP: -92% TRON: -92% Ethereum: -92% Monero: -90% Litecoin: -89% EOS: -88% Bitcoin: -82% Long term value investor cites short term price fluctuations as indication of long term thesis success/failure I just poted numbers. I didn't make any comments. You did that. I just assumed you were letting the board know that crypto was on sale. Bitcoin +600% since this post. Doesn't produce cashflow though so cite some Munger quote and avoid independent thinking. Correction: It doesn't produce anything I used to think gold was valuable too until I heard that when you fondle the cube it will not respond. Gold has been a bit of a stinker of an investment in real terms over the long haul, hasn't it? If Bitcoin is the next gold, wouldn't it be fair to assume it would be a bit of a stinker over the long haul as well? If you could provide some numbers on how you calculate your intrinsic value I think that would help me a bit with understanding your position. Maybe I really am missing something, I dunno, but no one seems to be able to provide me any hard numbers. Take X % of the current total gold valuation based on how much of the gold the bitcoin will replace as a store of value. Many people have argued for this for a while but it seems like doubters don't pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregmal Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 ^^^Yea, talk to me when BTC has half the market cap of gold. Then again, when they match. We'll see what the prices are then and how its been as an investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnarkyPuppy Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Crypto, % Below all-time high... BitConnect: -100% ICON: -98% Qtum: -98% NEM: -98% Bitcoin Gold: -98% Bitcoin Cash: -97% Lisk: -97% Cardano: -97% NEO: -96% IOTA: -95% Dash: -95% zCash: -95% XRP: -92% TRON: -92% Ethereum: -92% Monero: -90% Litecoin: -89% EOS: -88% Bitcoin: -82% Long term value investor cites short term price fluctuations as indication of long term thesis success/failure I just poted numbers. I didn't make any comments. You did that. I just assumed you were letting the board know that crypto was on sale. Bitcoin +600% since this post. Doesn't produce cashflow though so cite some Munger quote and avoid independent thinking. Correction: It doesn't produce anything I used to think gold was valuable too until I heard that when you fondle the cube it will not respond. Gold has been a bit of a stinker of an investment in real terms over the long haul, hasn't it? If Bitcoin is the next gold, wouldn't it be fair to assume it would be a bit of a stinker over the long haul as well? If you could provide some numbers on how you calculate your intrinsic value I think that would help me a bit with understanding your position. Maybe I really am missing something, I dunno, but no one seems to be able to provide me any hard numbers. If this is the depth of analysis you're willing to do - yet continue to be stunned that the scammy worthless bitcoin "dies" yet continues to rebound to higher levels - you probably do not understand the thesis at the most basic level and will continue to be stunned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widenthemoat Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Crypto, % Below all-time high... BitConnect: -100% ICON: -98% Qtum: -98% NEM: -98% Bitcoin Gold: -98% Bitcoin Cash: -97% Lisk: -97% Cardano: -97% NEO: -96% IOTA: -95% Dash: -95% zCash: -95% XRP: -92% TRON: -92% Ethereum: -92% Monero: -90% Litecoin: -89% EOS: -88% Bitcoin: -82% Long term value investor cites short term price fluctuations as indication of long term thesis success/failure I just poted numbers. I didn't make any comments. You did that. I just assumed you were letting the board know that crypto was on sale. Bitcoin +600% since this post. Doesn't produce cashflow though so cite some Munger quote and avoid independent thinking. Correction: It doesn't produce anything I used to think gold was valuable too until I heard that when you fondle the cube it will not respond. Gold has been a bit of a stinker of an investment in real terms over the long haul, hasn't it? If Bitcoin is the next gold, wouldn't it be fair to assume it would be a bit of a stinker over the long haul as well? If you could provide some numbers on how you calculate your intrinsic value I think that would help me a bit with understanding your position. Maybe I really am missing something, I dunno, but no one seems to be able to provide me any hard numbers. If this is the depth of analysis you're willing to do - yet continue to be stunned that the scammy worthless bitcoin "dies" yet continues to rebound to higher levels - you probably do not understand the thesis at the most basic level and will continue to be stunned. Stunned I shall be...I'll be patiently waiting for your intrinsic value calculation in the meantime. Clutch's gold alternative theory is at least plausible to me. I guess the next question would be why aren't gold prices going down while bitcoin prices are going up? Wouldn't an investor simply shift their 10% gold allocation to a 10% bitcoin allocation? I don't think the "market cap" of bitcoin can equal gold's current market cap unless investors become willing to allocate 20% of their portfolio to stores of value. I guess an investors 10% store of value allocation could be 100% bitcoin and golds market price goes to zero? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnarkyPuppy Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Crypto, % Below all-time high... BitConnect: -100% ICON: -98% Qtum: -98% NEM: -98% Bitcoin Gold: -98% Bitcoin Cash: -97% Lisk: -97% Cardano: -97% NEO: -96% IOTA: -95% Dash: -95% zCash: -95% XRP: -92% TRON: -92% Ethereum: -92% Monero: -90% Litecoin: -89% EOS: -88% Bitcoin: -82% Long term value investor cites short term price fluctuations as indication of long term thesis success/failure I just poted numbers. I didn't make any comments. You did that. I just assumed you were letting the board know that crypto was on sale. Bitcoin +600% since this post. Doesn't produce cashflow though so cite some Munger quote and avoid independent thinking. Correction: It doesn't produce anything I used to think gold was valuable too until I heard that when you fondle the cube it will not respond. Gold has been a bit of a stinker of an investment in real terms over the long haul, hasn't it? If Bitcoin is the next gold, wouldn't it be fair to assume it would be a bit of a stinker over the long haul as well? If you could provide some numbers on how you calculate your intrinsic value I think that would help me a bit with understanding your position. Maybe I really am missing something, I dunno, but no one seems to be able to provide me any hard numbers. If this is the depth of analysis you're willing to do - yet continue to be stunned that the scammy worthless bitcoin "dies" yet continues to rebound to higher levels - you probably do not understand the thesis at the most basic level and will continue to be stunned. Stunned I shall be...I'll be patiently waiting for your intrinsic value calculation in the meantime. Clutch's gold alternative theory is at least plausible to me. I guess the next question would be why aren't gold prices going down while bitcoin prices are going up? Wouldn't an investor simply shift their 10% gold allocation to a 10% bitcoin allocation? I don't think the "market cap" of bitcoin can equal gold's current market cap unless investors become willing to allocate 20% of their portfolio to stores of value. I guess an investors 10% store of value allocation could be 100% bitcoin and golds market price goes to zero? My thesis is BTC is a superior version of Gold. Obviously the market isn't perfectly efficient to take $1 from gold and give $1 to BTC; BTC actually expands TAM to an extent as younger generation is buying BTC - not selling gold. You're clearly looking for anecdotal ways to support your preconceived opinion - not worth spending more time on. If you're actually intellectually curious listen to Ari Paul discuss bitcoin as a starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now