villainx Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 I know this is amateur question, but USA investor should buy LVMUY? Tax implications? And is it IRA friendly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooDiligence Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 I know this is amateur question, but USA investor should buy LVMUY? Tax implications? And is it IRA friendly? The Y designation means it's an ADR. https://www.adr.com/Home?cusip=502441306 The ADR's are unsponsored which means the depository will take responsibility for notifying shareholders of proxy statements (I think?) Not sure about the implications of unsponsored ADR's other than the possibility of late proxy notifications. I think businesses go unsponsored because there's no SEC filings & associated costs, as opposed to sponsored ADR's? There will, however, be the usual depository's fee's to shareholders for handling dividend payments & notifications (they're rather small.) JPM, BNY, CITI, DB are all depositary's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hjorth Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 That reads reasonable, Jeff, Yes, the ADR-fees are modest. Just a few examples of ADR-fees of some ADRs I hold: SAN : USD 0.0025/share per dividend transaction, LUKOY : USD 0.02/share per dividend transaction, & OGZPY : USD 0.02/share per dividend transaction. - - - o 0 o - - - I'll buy LVMH at it's primary marketplace [Euronext Paris] using my secondary broker - ticker MC.PA [Link]. I do not have access to buy LVMUY at my primary broker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hjorth Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 LVMH reaches an agreement with Belmond to increase its presence in the ultimate hospitality world [December 14th 2018]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregmal Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 https://seekingalpha.com/news/3417016-lvmh-buy-hotel-group-belmond-3_2b $25 a share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hjorth Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Primary source: LVMH : LVMH reaches an agreement with Belmond to increase its presence in the ultimate hospitality world [December 14th 2018]. Not a typical acquisition for Mr. Arnault, because this one goes into the business leg inside LVMH called "other activities" [The hotel chain called Cheval Blanc is already there.] Rest of the "other activities" is : "Groupe Les Echos, which comprises leading French business and cultural news publications; Royal Van Lent, the builder of high-end yachts marketed under the brand name Feadship" - the common denominator for all this stuff is "art de vivre". Yes, it's brick and mortar, but that's just a tool for selling expensive experiences! I took a quick glance at the Belmond website earlier today ... - it's just soo "LVMH"! I coulden't stay away from the Investor Relations section either ... looked a bit at the income statement and the balance sheet, remembering the agreed price.... *GULP*! -Art de vivre? ... - I'm up for shepards pie for dinner today! [ : - P ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregmal Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Primary source: LVMH : LVMH reaches an agreement with Belmond to increase its presence in the ultimate hospitality world [December 14th 2018]. Not a typical acquisition for Mr. Arnault, because this one goes into the business leg inside LVMH called "other activities" [The hotel chain called Cheval Blanc is already there.] Rest of the "other activities" is : "Groupe Les Echos, which comprises leading French business and cultural news publications; Royal Van Lent, the builder of high-end yachts marketed under the brand name Feadship" - the common denominator for all this stuff is "art de vivre". Yes, it's brick and mortar, but that's just a tool for selling expensive experiences! I took a quick glance at the Belmond website earlier today ... - it's just soo "LVMH"! I coulden't stay away from the Investor Relations section either ... looked a bit at the income statement and the balance sheet, remembering the agreed price.... *GULP*! -Art de vivre? ... - I'm up for shepards pie for dinner today! [ : - P ] I thought the same things when I heard the news. I've been an admirer of LVMH for a while, but don't own it. This is a beautiful move IMO with many potential synergies. Belmond IMO has historically been mismanaged, but LVMH here is picking up a bunch of trophy assets it can use to sell it's trophy products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hjorth Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 ... I thought the same things when I heard the news. I've been an admirer of LVMH for a while, but don't own it. This is a beautiful move IMO with many potential synergies. Belmond IMO has historically been mismanaged, but LVMH here is picking up a bunch of trophy assets it can use to sell it's trophy products. I hope your're right, Greg, Your line of thinking makes sense to me. Mr. Arnault is not exactly known for screwing up with large amounts of capital. Do you know if anybody controls BEL right now, Greg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregmal Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 The company has a very unique little history. Long story short, the board members from it's original spin off about two decades ago held all the voting rights. They've faced legal battles and proxy fights galore. They even rejected a $60 a share bid IIRC, back in 2006 or so. All things considered, I have a hard time seeing this turn out as value destructive for LVMH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hjorth Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Thanks for overall guidance, Greg, I'll try to dig it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregmal Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Found this https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/11/29/at-orient-express-the-board-holds-all-the-cards/ Gives a good background. Orient Express was old name of company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregmal Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Thanks, Greg, I suggest a merge with the LVMH topic here by contacting [reporting this topic to ] Sanjeev. Thoughts? [We could clean it up a bit afterwards.] Sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterHK Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 LVMH reaches an agreement with Belmond to increase its presence in the ultimate hospitality world [December 14th 2018]. Gotta say I don't see the rationale to spend 3.2bn euro on something with 150mn in EBITDA in an area that doesn't seem to have a lot of fit with what you do. Unless they outfit the whole thing with LV home or something I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hjorth Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 LVMH [April 12th 2019] : LVMH’s acquisition of Belmond approved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hjorth Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 LVMH [May 10th 2019] : LVMH announces the fast approaching launch of a new luxury Maison, developed by Robyn Rihanna Fenty. Website for the Maison to come. Wikipedia : Robyn Rihanna Fenty. - - - o 0 o - - - Personally, I like the idea of building up new Maisons/brands [which are supposed to have business potential] from the ground & internally. Somehow, it's a part of LVMH's entrepreneurial spirit. If it does not work out, Mr. Arnault will just kill it [ref. what Spekulatius has posted earlier in this topic], or perhaps sell the whole thing again to Rihanna. Please give me a break about "total freedom" - I think it's more like "total freedom, subject to performance". I wonder how the agreement is bolted together. I [as I understand from the board recently, "we" is not so welcome here on CoBF any longer [ : - D ]] will most likely have to wait for the 2019 Reference Document to get some perception of the details of the agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hjorth Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 LVMH Press release [October 28th 2019] : Press Release [about a potential bid for Tiffany & Co.]. Reuters [October 28th 2019] : LVMH woos Tiffany to tap fast-growing jewelery market. It seems like a bid for Tiffany's from LVMH of USD 14.5 B has been turned down by Tiffany's board. I'm not sure Kering or Richemont can keep up here with competing bids [not similar acquisition capacity to LVMH]. I just took a quick glance at TIF 2018 Financials. After that, I have the same feeling here as with LVMH's Belmond acquisition. It seems like last round of the hunt for trophy assets among the three World leaders in this space. Is there any real & material assets left to acquire for the three in this space? The only thing that I can come up with is the privately held Swiss watchmaker Patek Philippe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooDiligence Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 LVMH Press release [October 28th 2019] : Press Release [about a potential bid for Tiffany & Co.]. Reuters [October 28th 2019] : LVMH woos Tiffany to tap fast-growing jewelery market. It seems like a bid for Tiffany's from LVMH of USD 14.5 B has been turned down by Tiffany's board. I'm not sure Kering or Richemont can keep up here with competing bids [not similar acquisition capacity to LVMH]. I just took a quick glance at TIF 2018 Financials. After that, I have the same feeling here as with LVMH's Belmond acquisition. It seems like last round of the hunt for trophy assets among the three World leaders in this space. Is there any real & material assets left to acquire for the three in this space? The only thing that I can come up with is the privately held Swiss watchmaker Patek Philippe. Maybe someone will make another run at Hermes? ??? http://www.thefashionlaw.com/home/hermes-vs-lvmh-a-timeline-of-the-drama --- https://qz.com/970211/with-the-acquisition-of-christian-dior-almost-all-of-luxury-fashion-including-gucci-and-hermes-is-now-owned-by-two-french-families-the-arnaults-and-pinaults/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpRaider Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 JFC was waiting on TIF to dip into 80s again. :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hjorth Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Maybe someone will make another run at Hermes? ??? http://www.thefashionlaw.com/home/hermes-vs-lvmh-a-timeline-of-the-drama --- https://qz.com/970211/with-the-acquisition-of-christian-dior-almost-all-of-luxury-fashion-including-gucci-and-hermes-is-now-owned-by-two-french-families-the-arnaults-and-pinaults/ Great!, Jeff, thank you for sharing, The first link of yours actually deserves a partly quote : In October 2010, the fashion world was slapped with some striking news. As noted by no shortage of publications at the time, Hermès' then-CEO Patrick Thomas would only find out two hours before the rest of the world about the shocking development that would take his company by storm. In fact, he received the news while cycling through the French Alps. He received a phone call; it was Bernard Arnault, chairman of LVMH Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton. The call was reportedly quite brief - made purely to alert Mr. Thomas that LVMH would be announcing that it had acquired a 17% stake in Hermès, largely a family controlled company, in which the Puech, Dumas and Guerrands controlled a 70 per cent stake. Thomas was - according to sources - so enraged, his response to Mr. Arnault was simply this: “If you want to seduce a beautiful woman, you don’t start by raping her from behind.” ... The entertainment value is great. [ : - ) ] - - - o 0 o - - - Personally, I have ruled out Hermés as an acquisition object in this race, because the Hermés family has absolute control [north of 70 percent of the total votes, according to the latest [2018] Hermes Registration Document]. Mr. Arnault is now basically only involved in Hermes via his private [family controlled] investment vehicle Semyrhamis with a bit north of 5 percent in Hermes. [He used Semyrhamis to gain control of Dior, the immediate parent of LVMH, now many years ago. One will have to study Dior to get a detailed understanding of the superstructure of LVMH - It's not available on the LVMH website.] - - - o 0 o - - - Ohh, I forgot : Over time, there will perhaps be French top notch Wine Chateaus available ... - Most likely at ridiculous prices! ... - - - o 0 o - - - -Those French corporate raiders are actually very special ... [- Please add Mr. Bolloré here.] They fear nothing, but : a. French inheritance taxes, and b. Their kids selling controlling stock positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooDiligence Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 One of these days, I'd like to own a little bit of LVMH or Hermes. They just seem so durable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hjorth Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 One of these days, I'd like to own a little bit of LVMH or Hermes. They just seem so durable. This sort of companies are wonderful [and there are actually very few existent on the planet right now]. However it's not by any mean clear that they at recent market price levels are wonderful investments. Patience is key [and you may eventually end up getting it totally wrong anyway!] ... [ Joel Stevens, Austin Value Capital [December 31st 2015] : Price and Returns]. Absolutely not for everybody. Personally, I've concluded, that - at least for me - the best way is to average in - over a time span of several years [no guaranties even given that it will play out]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooDiligence Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 One of these days, I'd like to own a little bit of LVMH or Hermes. They just seem so durable. This sort of companies are wonderful [and there are actually very few existent on the planet right now]. However it's not by any mean clear that they at recent market price levels are wonderful investments. Patience is key [and you may eventually end up getting it totally wrong anyway!] ... [ Joel Stevens, Austin Value Capital [December 31st 2015] : Price and Returns]. Absolutely not for everybody. Personally, I've concluded, that - at least for me - the best way is to average in - over a time span of several years [no guaranties even given that it will play out]. Are we attracted to luxury businesses in the same way that their customers are attracted to their products? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hjorth Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Are we attracted to luxury businesses in the same way that their customers are attracted to their products? Jeff, No! - And that's an absolute & personal "No!" from me. - - - o 0 o - - - Honestly, the last month or so, some IRL issues have caught up with me, [not that serious, but they have had to be dealt with]. I'll elaborate later, and I also [off topic] look forward to get the communication here on CoBF on the fly again with regard to ODET.PA & BOL.PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepydragon Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 One of these days, I'd like to own a little bit of LVMH or Hermes. They just seem so durable. Richemond seems cheap. About 15 PE. Up today on TIF news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooDiligence Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 One of these days, I'd like to own a little bit of LVMH or Hermes. They just seem so durable. Richemond seems cheap. About 15 PE. Up today on TIF news ;) Thanks, I'd forgotten about them. They do own a lot of venerable old lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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