The "Hopeless" Millenials

[Parsad]

I think they get the shafted in terms of their abilities and work ethic.  Millennials may be harder working and better savers than the last few generations:

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/finally-some-good-news-about-millennials-a-growing-number-save-100000-2018-01-23?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo

 

I'm a disciple of Buffett's belief that the next generation will live better than the previous generations due to the free-market system.  Cheers!

[rkbabang]

I think they get the shafted in terms of their abilities and work ethic.  Millennials may be harder working and better savers than the last few generations:

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/finally-some-good-news-about-millennials-a-growing-number-save-100000-2018-01-23?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo

 

I'm a disciple of Buffett's belief that the next generation will live better than the previous generations due to the free-market system.  Cheers!

 

I agree 100%.  I’ve always thought the millennials and especially the generation following them are much smarter then most people give them credit for. And they are certainly better people than my generation (gen X)was at their age.  While many go around focusing on the few idiots eating Tide Pods and saying “these young people today.. blah blah blah”. Compared to our generation these young people today give me hope for the future.  And the Jeff Sessions generation can’t die out fast enough.

[Parsad]

I think they get the shafted in terms of their abilities and work ethic.  Millennials may be harder working and better savers than the last few generations:

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/finally-some-good-news-about-millennials-a-growing-number-save-100000-2018-01-23?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo

 

I'm a disciple of Buffett's belief that the next generation will live better than the previous generations due to the free-market system.  Cheers!

 

I agree 100%.  I’ve always thought the millennials and especially the generation following them are much smarter then most people give them credit for. And they are certainly better people than my generation (gen X)was at their age.  While many go around focusing on the few idiots eating Tide Pods and saying “these young people today.. blah blah blah”. Compared to our generation these young people today give me hope for the future.  And the Jeff Sessions generation can’t die out fast enough.

 

Well the whole Tide Pods thing may just be natural selection at work.  ::)  So the remaining millennials and post-millennials will certainly be a more attractive bunch in terms of potential, income generation and innovation.  Cheers!

[Cigarbutt]

Based on my own anecdotal surroundings, indeed optimism is warranted.

 

Still, well done studies seem to show that millenials (compared to other age groups and compared to same age group in different periods) tend to be less committed to the importance of democracy and are less likely to be politically engaged. I wonder if civic “engagement” is compensated by social media presence. :)

 

“Interestingly, the trend toward openness to nondemocratic alternatives is especially strong among citizens who are both young and rich.” (my bold)

 

Pessimist take: The recent aversion to democratic institutions among the young and rich in the West may be no more than a return to the historical norm.

 

Optimist take: Many things are cyclical.

 

Some say many Jesus people became evangelical conservatives.

Let’s hope for the best then.

 

[DooDiligence]

I think they get the shafted in terms of their abilities and work ethic.  Millennials may be harder working and better savers than the last few generations:

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/finally-some-good-news-about-millennials-a-growing-number-save-100000-2018-01-23?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo

 

I'm a disciple of Buffett's belief that the next generation will live better than the previous generations due to the free-market system.  Cheers!

 

I agree 100%.  I’ve always thought the millennials and especially the generation following them are much smarter then most people give them credit for. And they are certainly better people than my generation (gen X)was at their age.  While many go around focusing on the few idiots eating Tide Pods and saying “these young people today.. blah blah blah”. Compared to our generation these young people today give me hope for the future.  And the Jeff Sessions generation can’t die out fast enough.

 

I'm surrounded by youngsters now & yeah, bright futures ahead...

[Cardboard]

"And the Jeff Sessions generation can’t die out fast enough."

 

Wow! You really sound like a Nazi and not a Libertarian. Shame on you!

 

Cardboard

[John Hjorth]

"And the Jeff Sessions generation can’t die out fast enough."

 

Wow! You really sound like a Nazi and not a Libertarian. Shame on you!

 

Cardboard

 

lol. Please feel free to state that I sound like a nazi, too. For the generation below us - in the family, I practice : "Arbeit macht frei." When I say it, they look at me as I'm some kind of idiot, then suddenly they recall that I have the account passwords.

 

They have developed this very weird mental model of one line consolidation in their heads - I thought it was an accounting phenomen - not! - It's not like KHC for Berkshire - It's more like ticker INIY [inheritance not inherited yet]. It happens they have forgotten who's got the votes still, as condition for doing this mental excersise.

[DTEJD1997]

Hey all:

 

Perhaps I am in the wrong location OR running with the wrong crowd, or some combination of the two...but I absolutely DO NOT think that the next generation will automatically have a better standard of living than the prior one.

 

I am a Gen-X, so I'm kind of in the middle.

 

I do know many younger people by about 10-15 years.  Many of them are in absolutely hopeless (from a Western perspective) financial situations.  They aren't starving to death, nor are they homeless....but they will never enter the "middle class".  This is despite the fact that they are highly educated, some of them incredibly so.  They simply have too much debt (student loans) in relation to their earning potential.

 

Another problem is that they aren't able to form family units and have children.

 

Finally, they will have EXTREME difficulty saving & investing for their retirement.

 

The only way out for them is to get a large chunk of money from their parents when they pass on (not impossible, but unlikely) OR to win the lottery OR to have some highly unusual situation.

 

This used to be limited to idiot attorneys...but I don't think this is the case anymore.

 

I went to a basketball game at the "University of Detroit", and learned some interesting things!  UofD lowered their undergraduate tuition from $41k a year to $28k.  When I was younger....I was told that you should not take out more than about 1x your STARTING income in student loan debt.  Thus, if you reasonably plan on making $50k a year upon graduation, you should not borrow more than about $50k.  I don't think ANY UofD undergraduate was/is going to be anywhere close to making $162k a year starting out.  Of course, some students get scholarships/aid, some have $ saved or given to them by parents, and some work while in school....but the point is that their cost of education is just "silly".  $28k a year is certainly better than $41k a year, but I would still argue that ABSENT tremendous scholarships OR highly unusual situations, it does not make financial sense to attend this school.

 

 

UofD is hardly unique...

 

So you've got the problem that education is frequently NOT worth the cost, yet many people do not know this until it is too late.

 

OR what about the stagnation of wages for most workers?

 

OR what about the cost of health insurance?

 

OR what about the cost of housing in some parts of America?

 

I hope I'm eventually proven wrong, VERY WRONG...but I don't see it as a given that the upcoming generation(s) will do better than the prior.

[Parsad]

Hey all:

 

Perhaps I am in the wrong location OR running with the wrong crowd, or some combination of the two...but I absolutely DO NOT think that the next generation will automatically have a better standard of living than the prior one.

 

I am a Gen-X, so I'm kind of in the middle.

 

I do know many younger people by about 10-15 years.  Many of them are in absolutely hopeless (from a Western perspective) financial situations.  They aren't starving to death, nor are they homeless....but they will never enter the "middle class".  This is despite the fact that they are highly educated, some of them incredibly so.  They simply have too much debt (student loans) in relation to their earning potential.

 

Another problem is that they aren't able to form family units and have children.

 

Finally, they will have EXTREME difficulty saving & investing for their retirement.

 

The only way out for them is to get a large chunk of money from their parents when they pass on (not impossible, but unlikely) OR to win the lottery OR to have some highly unusual situation.

 

This used to be limited to idiot attorneys...but I don't think this is the case anymore.

 

I went to a basketball game at the "University of Detroit", and learned some interesting things!  UofD lowered their undergraduate tuition from $41k a year to $28k.  When I was younger....I was told that you should not take out more than about 1x your STARTING income in student loan debt.  Thus, if you reasonably plan on making $50k a year upon graduation, you should not borrow more than about $50k.  I don't think ANY UofD undergraduate was/is going to be anywhere close to making $162k a year starting out.  Of course, some students get scholarships/aid, some have $ saved or given to them by parents, and some work while in school....but the point is that their cost of education is just "silly".  $28k a year is certainly better than $41k a year, but I would still argue that ABSENT tremendous scholarships OR highly unusual situations, it does not make financial sense to attend this school.

 

 

UofD is hardly unique...

 

So you've got the problem that education is frequently NOT worth the cost, yet many people do not know this until it is too late.

 

OR what about the stagnation of wages for most workers?

 

OR what about the cost of health insurance?

 

OR what about the cost of housing in some parts of America?

 

I hope I'm eventually proven wrong, VERY WRONG...but I don't see it as a given that the upcoming generation(s) will do better than the prior.

 

These were the same concerns that Archie Bunker's son-in-law, played by Rob Reiner, used to say about his generation...they were the Boomers, who had the highest standard of living in generations.

 

These were also the same concerns of my group, Generation X.  We were the dark, moody, lost generation that would never enjoy full employment like the Boomers, or the opportunities of Generation Y as the Boomers retired.  Well, many of us became entrepreneurs and are ultimately responsible for the prosperity and wealth driving the economy today.

 

These are the concerns of every generation, and so far, barring any catastrophe or large-scale war, this will continue.  Cheers!

[DooDiligence]

 

I went to a basketball game at the "University of Detroit", and learned some interesting things!  UofD lowered their undergraduate tuition from $41k a year to $28k.  When I was younger....I was told that you should not take out more than about 1x your STARTING income in student loan debt.  Thus, if you reasonably plan on making $50k a year upon graduation, you should not borrow more than about $50k.  I don't think ANY UofD undergraduate was/is going to be anywhere close to making $162k a year starting out.  Of course, some students get scholarships/aid, some have $ saved or given to them by parents, and some work while in school....but the point is that their cost of education is just "silly".  $28k a year is certainly better than $41k a year, but I would still argue that ABSENT tremendous scholarships OR highly unusual situations, it does not make financial sense to attend this school.

 

 

UofD is hardly unique...

 

So you've got the problem that education is frequently NOT worth the cost, yet many people do not know this until it is too late.

 

 

As usual, you bring up a lot of valuable points.

 

Regarding education though; community colleges are VERY affordable educational alternatives.

I'll pay around $1500 for this semester (and I hear all you stuffed shirt Ivy leaguers snickering.)

 

Maybe I just got lucky with Pensacola State College (or the fact that I'm so friggin stupid makes it seem like they provide a great education.)

 

It does; however, amaze me how many of the music students watch the clock in class (they have other majors but still...)

[rkbabang]

"And the Jeff Sessions generation can’t die out fast enough."

 

Wow! You really sound like a Nazi and not a Libertarian. Shame on you!

 

Cardboard

 

A joke in bad taste.  Many of the ideas and attitudes of that generation can't go away fast enough though.

 

[SharperDingaan]

The boomer generation owes its prosperity to the long-running peace that we have had, following the devastation of WWII. It kicked off the baby boom, kicked off massive infrastructure rebuilding, and allowed everyone to compound their gains for 70+ years. Ideally, it's not something that will be repeated anytime soon.

 

Traditionally, employment around the world has been that you made your own. The idea of always working for an employer, and very few employers over your entire working life, is largely a post WWII thing. If you have an essentially 'endless' market, and labor is in short supply, you need a cheap way of attracting & retaining large numbers of people. Those who didn't swallow the cool aid, made their fortunes as contractors - lower down the social spectrum. Rich ones!

 

All else equal, today's generation isn't going to do as well or better than those who went before; conditions have changed. Today its the guy who can think like a taxi driver who has the advantage - the anti fragility of reliance on a wide range of constant little jobs, versus the single 'golden acorn'. The traditional way of doing things - of multiple jobs, and 'side hustles' at the same time.

 

For the most part, millenials have worked it out - & the younger they are, the better they generally are at it. Saving money and independence, questioning the value of 'degree versus apprenticeship' at the individual level, questioning the why its this way, using tech to do what their elders couldn't, holistic versus the 'rape and pillage' approach to doing business. The list is endless.

 

The millenials are collectively far from dumb - they also aren't going to be reinventing the world by themselves. There will be transition issues, but there's nothing to worry about. It just isn't going to be the world that you had perhaps imagined.

 

SD

 

 

 

 

 

[JanSvenda]

I have one main issue with the topic. I believe it is not efficient to generalize through generations. My view is based on the opinion that the main growth driver of society is technology.

 

The standard of living has increased extremely mainly because of it, not because one generation is more adept than another. Education can be a growth driver, but I feel that this is really not the case due to human biases that are omnipresent in each generation and thus still tarnish the education system of the wider society. Critical thinking is a tool that is hard to attain but even harder to teach as independence, which is one of the key prerequisites, is scarce.

 

Just look at the state of the politics in the world which is really the clearest example of how people do not progress. People fall for the same lies again and again. They also tend to forget and thus I hope that the sheer volume of trade that is now out there is going to prevent another war (perhaps with Mr. Trump the trade might get weaker).

 

This is not to say that different generations live under different conditions that could to an extent define them, but I believe that the fundamentals are the same i.e. Gen X and Millenials are still ignorant in the same topics. Technology also amplifies their biases rather than to alter them.

 

Thus I believe it is more beneficial to talk about fundamentals of human behavior or individual aspects (savings, education etc.) rather than to try to generalize through generations. 

[DTEJD1997]

Hey all:

 

Perhaps I am in the wrong location OR running with the wrong crowd, or some combination of the two...but I absolutely DO NOT think that the next generation will automatically have a better standard of living than the prior one.

 

I hope I'm eventually proven wrong, VERY WRONG...but I don't see it as a given that the upcoming generation(s) will do better than the prior.

 

These were the same concerns that Archie Bunker's son-in-law, played by Rob Reiner, used to say about his generation...they were the Boomers, who had the highest standard of living in generations.

 

These were also the same concerns of my group, Generation X.  We were the dark, moody, lost generation that would never enjoy full employment like the Boomers, or the opportunities of Generation Y as the Boomers retired.  Well, many of us became entrepreneurs and are ultimately responsible for the prosperity and wealth driving the economy today.

 

These are the concerns of every generation, and so far, barring any catastrophe or large-scale war, this will continue.  Cheers!

 

I've got to vehemently disagree with you....the situation in AMERICA has radically changed regarding standard of living vs. prior generations.

 

Every generation has it's struggles & problems, of course.

 

What has changed is that this current generation is being forced to gamble their future with their education.

 

In the past, education did not cost so much.  Thus, if you got a defective education, it was not a life ruining event.  You took your lumps and moved on. 

 

How do you "move on" when you have a $200k+ student loan?  You can't discharge it in bankruptcy.  What if you can't get a job in the field for which you studied?  What if you CAN get a job in your field, but you make $20/hour with NO benefits?  You are never able to pay off the loans!

 

The government has set up "Income Based Repayment", or IBR for short.  Make 20/25 years of payments based off your income, then the debt is discharged...BUT then you've got a tax bill on the discharged debt, so then you have to go bankrupt.

 

After bankruptcy in your mid to late forties/early 50's you can then get on with life and start saving for retirement and think about getting married/starting a family.

 

I know, as I worked with numerous people like this. 

 

So that is what is different...youngsters are gambling their future away getting a college education.

 

 

[fareastwarriors]

I'm a hopeful millennial.

 

But how come we don't ever blame the parents? Why are their kids attending such expensive colleges? Why are their kids are not working/interning during the school year or summers? Why are they so unprepared for the real world? Why are they so bad at finances? 

 

 

 

 

[oddballstocks]

I barely qualify as a millennial, my wife is and my younger brothers and wives are too.

 

My mom sometimes talks about the hopeless and worthless millennials who don't work hard.  I point out that it's her kids and she says "not you guy, but others.." then I point out friends of ours who are doing well and it's always "not them either, other ones.."

 

It's just a stereotype that's hard to pin down on actual people.

 

As my dad pointed out over the holidays to my mom his parents' generation thought the exact same thing about baby boomers and now suddenly baby boomers are responsible and 'better'.

 

 

[augustabound]

I'm a hopeful millennial.

 

How come we don't ever blame the parents? Why are their kids attending such expensive colleges? Why are their kids are not working/interning during the school year or summers? Why are they so unprepared for the real world? Why are they so bad at finances?

 

I think you're right.

 

I have 2 cousins (siblings) and they both are in one way or another still dependent on my uncle for financial support. One is single and the other is married with 4 kids. Even my cousins husband is somewhat dependent on my uncle. We're talking help with rent, car payments and the 2-3 vacations they take each and every year is 100% paid for by my uncle.

 

They were in no way taught how to prepare for life after high school. (Both also have university degrees and I'm fairly certain no student loan was taken out by either of them)

[John Hjorth]

whut, Whut, WHUT? ???

 

If you are looking at getting a "yacht"....I would think that is a very easy purchase...

 

You simply write a check and that is all.

 

Financing?  WTF???  If you need financing for a "yacht", you don't need a yacht!...

 

Replace the word "yacht" with what ever you want! - Pun intended!

 

We should all do like this. It's never too late.

 

Edit:

 

and like this.

[BPCAP]

Each generation has it strengths and weaknesses, but I agree it’s unfair to generalize too much.

 

I’m at the gen X/Y border, and there’s a lot of wisdom I feel my generation has yet to grasp (and there’s a lot that irritates me about 20 and 30 somethings) But for intelligence and morals, there’s no comparison, and  current and future young people will continue to improve in these regards.

 

I also think Boomers are in no position to criticize.  They had it all (peace, prosperity, cheap prices, freedom,etc.) and squandered it.  Yes we got rock and roll but we also got a broken political system and debt that looks like a runaway train.  (Not to mention most of them will eventually need their kids’ help paying bills.)

 

Future generations will live better in many ways, but overall it may depend on society’s ability to put off the debt comeuppance. 

 

[Liberty]

I think it's hard to generalize about any group of people as large as a whole generation.

 

I think any commentary says more about how older people perceive younger people and vice versa than about the groups of people themselves.

[bizaro86]

It's interesting to me that many of the issues mentioned here are largely US problems.

 

I'm a millenial. I paid ~6k per year plus books (and I made money on my books...). That was for an engineering degree from a top tier Canadian school. Now it's more like 8k. I made enough money in the summers to graduate debt free, which would have been impossible at the 40k tuition level a similar US school would have been.

[rb]

It's interesting to me that many of the issues mentioned here are largely US problems.

 

I'm a millenial. I paid ~6k per year plus books (and I made money on my books...). That was for an engineering degree from a top tier Canadian school. Now it's more like 8k. I made enough money in the summers to graduate debt free, which would have been impossible at the 40k tuition level a similar US school would have been.

Yep, the education thing is mostly a US problem. Higher education is quite affordable around the world (though I am concerned by trends in Canada). I can empathize with the situation in the US but that's about it. They've decided to screw their younger generation out of money. They did it to themselves and don't want to change it. Then so be it. Enjoy.

[SharperDingaan]

A good part of this is also kids caving to what their PARENTS want, versus what THEY want.

Mom/dad want to boast about their son/daughter the 'lawyer/doctor/accountant'; when the kid really doesn't have a chance, or the network support - and just wants to be a tradesperson. Over-dependency, & fear of kids moving out & the resultant 'empty nest', producing gilded cages.

 

Part of education is 'growing up' - and 'cutting the apron-strings'.

Sadly, not something that is typically done well accross large segments of American society.

 

SD

 

[DTEJD1997]

A good part of this is also kids caving to what their PARENTS want, versus what THEY want.

Mom/dad want to boast about their son/daughter the 'lawyer/doctor/accountant'; when the kid really doesn't have a chance, or the network support - and just wants to be a tradesperson. Over-dependency, & fear of kids moving out & the resultant 'empty nest', producing gilded cages.

 

Part of education is 'growing up' - and 'cutting the apron-strings'.

Sadly, not something that is typically done well accross large segments of American society.

 

SD

 

SD:

 

You are right on many points, but let me add a few:

 

A).  The education industrial complex is TOTALLY out of control in America.  It is gobbling up a SHOCKING amount of resources and large parts of it are producing NOTHING worth anything.

 

B). In order to continue to gobble up society's resources, the education industrial complex has engaged in wide scale deception.  A good example of this is all the lawsuits brought against law skools for lying about the results of their graduates.  If the truth was widely known, over 1/2 of USA law skools would shut down.

 

C). Another example of the gobbling up of scarce resources is the public skool system in Detroit.  They take in a shocking amount of $$$ per student, and it is simply a failure factory.  It is a disgrace what has been going on, and what is going on.  "A National Disgrace" is the title to Dan Rather's report on the DPS. 

 

Please see:

 

 

So yeah, millenials and their parents can take some of the blame...but don't forget about the teachers, administrators and the education industrial complex...they have a lot to answer for.

[rb]

SD:

 

You are right on many points, but let me add a few:

 

A).  The education industrial complex is TOTALLY out of control in America.  It is gobbling up a SHOCKING amount of resources and large parts of it are producing NOTHING worth anything.

 

B). In order to continue to gobble up society's resources, the education industrial complex has engaged in wide scale deception.  A good example of this is all the lawsuits brought against law skools for lying about the results of their graduates.  If the truth was widely known, over 1/2 of USA law skools would shut down.

 

C). Another example of the gobbling up of scarce resources is the public skool system in Detroit.  They take in a shocking amount of $$$ per student, and it is simply a failure factory.  It is a disgrace what has been going on, and what is going on.  "A National Disgrace" is the title to Dan Rather's report on the DPS. 

 

Please see:

 

 

So yeah, millenials and their parents can take some of the blame...but don't forget about the teachers, administrators and the education industrial complex...they have a lot to answer for.

Yea, but you guys put Betsy DeVos in charge of Education right? And whatever measures Obama put in place to restrict downright fraudulent practices by for profit "universities" were quickly reversed by the Trump administration right? If you don't want to help yourselves then so be it. But then don't cry about it.