Do you know: Orbis, Marathon Asset Management, Oldfield Partners, Phoenix AM?

[tol1]

Am compiling names with a value-based strategy in equities, that have a strong track record and are based in London. Have you guys come across following names and know more about culture, comp levels, discretion and the usual stuff that cannot be googled in seconds? Please PM me, if you do not want to share your thoughts openly on the shops.

 

Oldfield Partners

Marathon Asset Management (not the credit shop)

Orbis

Phoenix Asset Management

Southeastern Asset Management

Chilton Investment

 

Thanks

 

[roark1211]

Orbis is a great place to learn how to do investing. They are all Buffett fans at the core but also pragmatic enough to understand the attraction of growth stocks, that's why they have been outperforming while many other "value shops" struggled in the past few years.

 

The culture is super meritocratic, you either make 10% alpha or you're out.

 

They publish their holdings on a monthly basis so you can pretty much see everything they do. They are definitely not a "me-too" shop.

 

Southeastern Asset Management - the performance has been pretty poor to say the least. For the past 10 years, you'd be much better off buying the S&P.

[Jurgis]

Orbis ...

They publish their holdings on a monthly basis so you can pretty much see everything they do.

 

Can you post a link? I can't find this. Or do you have to be a client?

[roark1211]

 

Can you post a link? I can't find this. Or do you have to be a client?

 

They post their top holdings here: https://www.orbis.com/uk/institutional/strategies/global-equity

 

I am a client so I receive a monthly report with the details, but I know for a fact that they used to publish a monthly factsheet showing all the holdings, or at least the top 10. They have just completely revamped their website, logo, presentation etc. so frankly I also feel a bit lost navigating their website now.

[Paarslaars]

Orbis is a great place to learn how to do investing. They are all Buffett fans at the core but also pragmatic enough to understand the attraction of growth stocks, that's why they have been outperforming while many other "value shops" struggled in the past few years.

 

The culture is super meritocratic, you either make 10% alpha or you're out.

 

They publish their holdings on a monthly basis so you can pretty much see everything they do. They are definitely not a "me-too" shop.

 

 

Interesting to see a performance based fee only, with refunds when they underperform the benchmark.

[tol1]

Orbis is a great place to learn how to do investing. They are all Buffett fans at the core but also pragmatic enough to understand the attraction of growth stocks, that's why they have been outperforming while many other "value shops" struggled in the past few years.

 

The culture is super meritocratic, you either make 10% alpha or you're out.

 

They publish their holdings on a monthly basis so you can pretty much see everything they do. They are definitely not a "me-too" shop.

 

Southeastern Asset Management - the performance has been pretty poor to say the least. For the past 10 years, you'd be much better off buying the S&P.

 

Thank you for this. I was told the turnover at Orbis is very high and hardly anyone becomes PM. High turnover is a major red flag IMO.

[Jurgis]

 

Can you post a link? I can't find this. Or do you have to be a client?

 

They post their top holdings here: https://www.orbis.com/uk/institutional/strategies/global-equity

 

I am a client so I receive a monthly report with the details, but I know for a fact that they used to publish a monthly factsheet showing all the holdings, or at least the top 10. They have just completely revamped their website, logo, presentation etc. so frankly I also feel a bit lost navigating their website now.

 

Thanks.

[mwtorock]

probably about 10 yrs ago before the financial crisis, i interviewed at orbis for a risk management job. i got through the first couple of rounds so i was getting serious and spent a couple of days studying their holdings. Then when they asked me what do i think about risks next, i told them that they have permanent loss risks on a couple Natural Gas names and Chinese Gaming names ( i should have mentioned Lehman but i was not there yet  ;) ). Obviously i did not get that job. But those managers are long gone now I heard.

 

i think they are really beating the benchmark type of strategies, like Ken Fisher style i mean, not necessarily value. But it is just my personal view, and they may have changed a lot.

[MrB]

Am compiling names with a value-based strategy in equities, that have a strong track record and are based in London. Have you guys come across following names and know more about culture, comp levels, discretion and the usual stuff that cannot be googled in seconds? Please PM me, if you do not want to share your thoughts openly on the shops.

 

Oldfield Partners

Marathon Asset Management (not the credit shop)

Orbis

Phoenix Asset Management

Southeastern Asset Management

Chilton Investment

 

Thanks

Yes, except for Chilton, I know all those firms reasonably to very well. Some of them I’ve known for years. Marathon is probably not Marathon anymore after Nomad and then later Jeremy left, but the rest still have their original culture intact. All certainly firms worth emulating.

[topofeaturellc]

You have to look at turnover in context.  Some places run a model where you hire young and have lots of churn years 3-5 but almost none post year five.

 

Same with being a "PM". A place where lots of people make PM probably doesn't much value the title.  If you have four "PMs" on a product chances are 1-2 of them do the thinking and the rest will be marketing/admin heavy.

 

But at a place with one real PM (like Harris International for example) the non PMs can do a lot. Now the big issue is portability as an analyst vs as a PM, but from the firms perspective who cares.

[roark1211]

Thank you for this. I was told the turnover at Orbis is very high and hardly anyone becomes PM. High turnover is a major red flag IMO.

 

You have to look at turnover in context.  Some places run a model where you hire young and have lots of churn years 3-5 but almost none post year five.

 

Same with being a "PM". A place where lots of people make PM probably doesn't much value the title.  If you have four "PMs" on a product chances are 1-2 of them do the thinking and the rest will be marketing/admin heavy.

 

But at a place with one real PM (like Harris International for example) the non PMs can do a lot. Now the big issue is portability as an analyst vs as a PM, but from the firms perspective who cares.

 

You're absolutely spot on about the model at Orbis. They have one PM for each of the fund they run (Global, Japan, EM, International) and a "General PM" - William Gray who is also the son of the founder of Orbis (Allan Gray). Some might not like this, but it is what it is, and it has worked for them. Those PMs are all lifers at Orbis, so almost no one else made it to "PM" in the traditional definition for the last decade or so.

 

The turnover in the analyst population (<5 years) is very high indeed, that's because of their cut-throat culture: you either make 10% alpha or you're out.

 

 

[tol1]

Thanks everyone - what about the other names? Are there names that should be included for a value-based, fundamental equities strategy with a rather concentrated portfolio based out of London?