dwy000 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 so i was getting ready write a long ranty e-mail about things i/we're potentially missing and about this narrative of a re-rating once leverage goes down below 4x and wondering out loud if there were really prospective shareholders out there who are like "can't own it at 4.1x but love it at 3.9x" and as if on cue there's a VIC writeup today on BERY which features the below gem: Of note, a conversation with a sell-side analyst indicated that when his firm hosted an NDR for BERY in August 2020, not a single long-only fund met with the Company, despite a full effort on the broker’s part. Universally, the response the broker received from the long-only community was, “Reach out to me when BERY’s leverage is below 4.0x. I continue to wonder if there are really that many funds that are so arbitrary and idiotic, or if that's just an excuse for people who don't want to say "I have no interest in a plastics company at any price" This is the exact arbitrage that Private Equity uses to make outsized returns. Irrational public investor restrictions. Very frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 so i was getting ready write a long ranty e-mail about things i/we're potentially missing and about this narrative of a re-rating once leverage goes down below 4x and wondering out loud if there were really prospective shareholders out there who are like "can't own it at 4.1x but love it at 3.9x" and as if on cue there's a VIC writeup today on BERY which features the below gem: Of note, a conversation with a sell-side analyst indicated that when his firm hosted an NDR for BERY in August 2020, not a single long-only fund met with the Company, despite a full effort on the broker’s part. Universally, the response the broker received from the long-only community was, “Reach out to me when BERY’s leverage is below 4.0x. I continue to wonder if there are really that many funds that are so arbitrary and idiotic, or if that's just an excuse for people who don't want to say "I have no interest in a plastics company at any price" This is the exact arbitrage that Private Equity uses to make outsized returns. Irrational public investor restrictions. Very frustrating. Makes you wonder whether companies like these just make more sense being private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kab60 Posted December 1, 2020 Author Share Posted December 1, 2020 Renewable developers are starting to plan to produce green methanol from hydrogen (from electrolycis) and CO2, which can be used to make plastics, so perhaps this will become an ESG play eventually. :D While we wait, the Company announced a new compensation scheme. 50/50 TSR and ROCE based, so perhaps we should expect a dividend and buyback announcement sometime next year, when debt is below 4xebitda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepupil Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Berry raised $750mm 5 year bonds at 1.57% today. Pretty cheap money! Proceeds go toward the 2022 1L loan which is also very cheap money, but still nice to see them terming out the debt at such low cost Berry Global Group, Inc. Announces Pricing of Private Placement Notes Offering Business Wire EVANSVILLE, Ind. -- December 16, 2020 Berry Global Group, Inc. (NYSE:BERY) (“Berry”) announced today the pricing of the private placement launched December 15, 2020, by its wholly owned subsidiary, Berry Global, Inc. (the “Issuer”). The Issuer will issue $750,000,000 of first priority senior secured notes due 2026 (the “Notes”). The closing of the private placement offering is expected to occur on or about December 22, 2020. The Notes will bear interest at a rate of 1.57%, payable semiannually, in cash in arrears, on January 15 and July 15 of each year, commencing on July 15, 2021. The Notes will mature on January 15, 2026. The Notes will be guaranteed by Berry and each of the Issuer’s existing and future direct or indirect domestic subsidiaries that guarantees the Issuer’s senior secured credit facilities, existing first priority secured notes and existing second priority senior secured notes, subject to certain exceptions. The Notes and the guarantees thereof will be unsubordinated obligations of the Issuer and will rank equally in right of payment with all of the Issuer’s, and, in the case of the guarantees, to all of the guarantors’, existing and future unsubordinated debt. The guarantee by Berry will be unsecured. The Notes will be secured on a second priority basis by liens (subject to certain exceptions and permitted liens) on accounts receivable, inventory and certain related assets that secure the Issuer’s revolving credit facility, and on a first priority basis by liens on the property and assets of the Issuer and the subsidiary guarantors that secure the Issuer’s senior secured term loan credit facility, subject to certain exceptions. As previously announced, the net proceeds from the offering are intended to prepay a portion of certain existing term loans of the Issuer and to pay certain fees and expenses related to the offering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuelbean Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Hi guys, I was reading a write-up on VIC about Aptar and I came across this: "traditional packaging (B&H + F&B) should see FY20 EBITDA down ~20-25% whereas Pharma EBITDA is likely to be up 5-10%" I believe that F&B means Food and Beverage, but what does B&H mean? If these are segments of the plastic industry, why aren't we seeing Berry being affected as the quote implies? I should be asking the author instead, but I have yet to submit a write-up of my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwy000 Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Hi guys, I was reading a write-up on VIC about Aptar and I came across this: "traditional packaging (B&H + F&B) should see FY20 EBITDA down ~20-25% whereas Pharma EBITDA is likely to be up 5-10%" I believe that F&B means Food and Beverage, but what does B&H mean? If these are segments of the plastic industry, why aren't we seeing Berry being affected as the quote implies? I should be asking the author instead, but I have yet to submit a write-up of my own. F&B down 20-25% at the EBITDA level seems really, really pessimistic. F&B is about the most stable end market out there unless they are leveraged to in service dining or something else pandemic related. I really don't understand that. I could see if it included price declines due to pass thru of lower input pricing but that shouldn't impact EBITDA. Let us know if you get any additional info. Thanks for highlighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfp Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Hi guys, I was reading a write-up on VIC about Aptar and I came across this: "traditional packaging (B&H + F&B) should see FY20 EBITDA down ~20-25% whereas Pharma EBITDA is likely to be up 5-10%" I believe that F&B means Food and Beverage, but what does B&H mean? I would assume B&H is something like Beauty & Health or Beauty & Hygiene or Beauty & Home. Actually at Aptar they call it "Beauty + Home" and "Food + Beverage" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepupil Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 this junk company just raised $800mm of 3 year money at 0.95%. I'm seeing that their whole debt stack is at ~2.7% right now, pro-forma for this. I presume the use of proceeds is the remainder of the 2022 term loan, so this does represent an increase in average maturity and decrease in rate, though I'd like to see them eventually term out the debt more. they have this big wall in 2026 when $6.7/$9.9B of debt is due, namely their $4.2B 1L<---maybe they reprice this soon, get that L+200 to something even stingier. BERY's capital structure is slowly transforming, was $11B of debt and 2/3 leveraged loans at YE 2019, now $10B of debt and 46% loans, 54% bonds. A year from now, if no divvy or repurchase will be <$9B and probably even more bonds than loans. Hopefully we can stop all this deleveraging crap then and start hoovering in stock/paying divvy/ and trading at Amcor's multiple then. $800m 3Y Fixed at +77 IPT +105-110 Reoffer price 99.873 to yield 0.992% Coupon: 0.95 Issuer: Berry Global Inc (BERY) Exp. Ratings: BBB-/BBB- (S&P/Fitch) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG2008 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 I can see a situation where Berry could potentially go from 8x P/FCF to 15x if they deleverage to 2.0x EBITDA. If they can show 4-6 quarters of 2% organic volume growth, this could get interesting. Maybe this is my 3 year bias/fatigue setting in. But I do think that plastics as it exist today do have real terminal value concerns. Nonetheless, it is a phenomenal business! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwy000 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 I can see a situation where Berry could potentially go from 8x P/FCF to 15x if they deleverage to 2.0x EBITDA. If they can show 4-6 quarters of 2% organic volume growth, this could get interesting. Maybe this is my 3 year bias/fatigue setting in. But I do think that plastics as it exist today do have real terminal value concerns. Nonetheless, it is a phenomenal business! That's probably true. To be honest though I'd rather they remained 4 levered and just use the excess cash flow to buy back shares. Revaluing is a one time benefit but I don't want them repaying 1% debt to buy back shares yielding 12% on a FCF basis. Especially for a GDP rate grower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG2008 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 I can see a situation where Berry could potentially go from 8x P/FCF to 15x if they deleverage to 2.0x EBITDA. If they can show 4-6 quarters of 2% organic volume growth, this could get interesting. Maybe this is my 3 year bias/fatigue setting in. But I do think that plastics as it exist today do have real terminal value concerns. Nonetheless, it is a phenomenal business! That's probably true. To be honest though I'd rather they remained 4 levered and just use the excess cash flow to buy back shares. Revaluing is a one time benefit but I don't want them repaying 1% debt to buy back shares yielding 12% on a FCF basis. Especially for a GDP rate grower. If Berry had better organic growth, I would love for them to just buy back shares. But if they were growing 3-4% a year, I'll bet there is no way in hell you can buy a business like this at these multiples. Public markets are weird. Just plain weird. They have different "bosses" now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepupil Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 this junk company just raised $800mm of 3 year money at 0.95%. I'm seeing that their whole debt stack is at ~2.7% right now, pro-forma for this. I presume the use of proceeds is the remainder of the 2022 term loan, so this does represent an increase in average maturity and decrease in rate, though I'd like to see them eventually term out the debt more. they have this big wall in 2026 when $6.7/$9.9B of debt is due, namely their $4.2B 1L<---maybe they reprice this soon, get that L+200 to something even stingier. BERY's capital structure is slowly transforming, was $11B of debt and 2/3 leveraged loans at YE 2019, now $10B of debt and 46% loans, 54% bonds. A year from now, if no divvy or repurchase will be <$9B and probably even more bonds than loans. Hopefully we can stop all this deleveraging crap then and start hoovering in stock/paying divvy/ and trading at Amcor's multiple then. $800m 3Y Fixed at +77 IPT +105-110 Reoffer price 99.873 to yield 0.992% Coupon: 0.95 Issuer: Berry Global Inc (BERY) Exp. Ratings: BBB-/BBB- (S&P/Fitch) Just a note here that the run rate interest expense quoted above does NOT include the impact of ~$3.2 billion of interest rate swaps which are way upside down and increase run rate interest expense in exchange for more stability / rate risk reduction . I estimate these would require between $230mm (10-K figure) - $280mm (the figure I estimated before realizing this was probably in the 10-K) to fully unwind and cost about $55mm / year on a run-rate basis (the cost of paying their fixed rates on the swaps minus the floating rate they receive). Until the various debts mature, these guys are quite insulated from increases in libor (though that has obviously had a cost). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kab60 Posted January 20, 2021 Author Share Posted January 20, 2021 Don't think it was mentioned here, but A.P. Møller - Holding - a large wealth fund in Denmark - recently bought Faerch Group for 14b DKK. Faerch did around 660m DKK ebitda in 2019, but they've since done some acquisitions, there's organic growth etc., so multiple is much way lower than the implied 21x2019 ebitda. Faerch is a much better business than Berry - higher growth, higher margins and better outlook - but it's also a lot further in its ESG efforts, targetting 100 pct. recycled post-consumer PET in its products in 2025, which was important for APMH buying it. Which brings me back to Berry and their role in the public markets. With something like Altria - which will never be kosher amongst ESG investors - one can not give a fuck about the share price, since they return 80 pct. of income to shareholders and a lower share price increases the effects of buybacks. I think my point is that Berry is probably as bad from an ESG-investor perspective as Altria - at least it must be close - so unless they start doing things way differently on the ESG front (I doubt it's really feasible with their shattered operations all over the globe etc.), I'd prefer if they begun to return cash to shareholders when net debt gets below that arbitrary numbers of 4xebitda. They haven't gotten any credit for the acquisition of RPC, I doubt another large deal will change that, so their multiple will probably stay in the dog house. That's not necessarily a bad thing though, they produce prodigious amounts of cash, but if they don't take advantage of that it's a bummer. I doubt getting to 4xnet debt/ebitda will suddenly make this thing loved by the public market, and I really would prefer them not wasting cash on retiring debt when they can borrow at 1 pct and the equity yields around 13 pct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG2008 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Don't think it was mentioned here, but A.P. Møller - Holding - a large wealth fund in Denmark - recently bought Faerch Group for 14b DKK. Faerch did around 660m DKK ebitda in 2019, but they've since done some acquisitions, there's organic growth etc., so multiple is much way lower than the implied 21x2019 ebitda. Faerch is a much better business than Berry - higher growth, higher margins and better outlook - but it's also a lot further in its ESG efforts, targetting 100 pct. recycled post-consumer PET in its products in 2025, which was important for APMH buying it. Which brings me back to Berry and their role in the public markets. With something like Altria - which will never be kosher amongst ESG investors - one can not give a fuck about the share price, since they return 80 pct. of income to shareholders and a lower share price increases the effects of buybacks. I think my point is that Berry is probably as bad from an ESG-investor perspective as Altria - at least it must be close - so unless they start doing things way differently on the ESG front (I doubt it's really feasible with their shattered operations all over the globe etc.), I'd prefer if they begun to return cash to shareholders when net debt gets below that arbitrary numbers of 4xebitda. They haven't gotten any credit for the acquisition of RPC, I doubt another large deal will change that, so their multiple will probably stay in the dog house. That's not necessarily a bad thing though, they produce prodigious amounts of cash, but if they don't take advantage of that it's a bummer. I doubt getting to 4xnet debt/ebitda will suddenly make this thing loved by the public market, and I really would prefer them not wasting cash on retiring debt when they can borrow at 1 pct and the equity yields around 13 pct. Why do you have to ruin my morning after a glorious night of sleep, an awesome bodyweight routine, and an amazing Peloton ride while listening to MOI? Why? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG2008 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Don't think it was mentioned here, but A.P. Møller - Holding - a large wealth fund in Denmark - recently bought Faerch Group for 14b DKK. Faerch did around 660m DKK ebitda in 2019, but they've since done some acquisitions, there's organic growth etc., so multiple is much way lower than the implied 21x2019 ebitda. Faerch is a much better business than Berry - higher growth, higher margins and better outlook - but it's also a lot further in its ESG efforts, targetting 100 pct. recycled post-consumer PET in its products in 2025, which was important for APMH buying it. Which brings me back to Berry and their role in the public markets. With something like Altria - which will never be kosher amongst ESG investors - one can not give a fuck about the share price, since they return 80 pct. of income to shareholders and a lower share price increases the effects of buybacks. I think my point is that Berry is probably as bad from an ESG-investor perspective as Altria - at least it must be close - so unless they start doing things way differently on the ESG front (I doubt it's really feasible with their shattered operations all over the globe etc.), I'd prefer if they begun to return cash to shareholders when net debt gets below that arbitrary numbers of 4xebitda. They haven't gotten any credit for the acquisition of RPC, I doubt another large deal will change that, so their multiple will probably stay in the dog house. That's not necessarily a bad thing though, they produce prodigious amounts of cash, but if they don't take advantage of that it's a bummer. I doubt getting to 4xnet debt/ebitda will suddenly make this thing loved by the public market, and I really would prefer them not wasting cash on retiring debt when they can borrow at 1 pct and the equity yields around 13 pct. Why do you have to ruin my morning after a glorious night of sleep, an awesome bodyweight routine, and an amazing Peloton ride while listening to MOI? Why? Why? I am going to take a shower, by the time I come back, this thread better say that Berry is going to use chemical recycling to get rid of all the plastic in the ocean. Actually, if you look at some of the press release, there is a lot of talk of sustainability and Berry is quite vocal about it. But I doubt that it changes public perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooDiligence Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Don't think it was mentioned here, but A.P. Møller - Holding - a large wealth fund in Denmark - recently bought Faerch Group for 14b DKK. Faerch did around 660m DKK ebitda in 2019, but they've since done some acquisitions, there's organic growth etc., so multiple is much way lower than the implied 21x2019 ebitda. Faerch is a much better business than Berry - higher growth, higher margins and better outlook - but it's also a lot further in its ESG efforts, targetting 100 pct. recycled post-consumer PET in its products in 2025, which was important for APMH buying it. Which brings me back to Berry and their role in the public markets. With something like Altria - which will never be kosher amongst ESG investors - one can not give a fuck about the share price, since they return 80 pct. of income to shareholders and a lower share price increases the effects of buybacks. I think my point is that Berry is probably as bad from an ESG-investor perspective as Altria - at least it must be close - so unless they start doing things way differently on the ESG front (I doubt it's really feasible with their shattered operations all over the globe etc.), I'd prefer if they begun to return cash to shareholders when net debt gets below that arbitrary numbers of 4xebitda. They haven't gotten any credit for the acquisition of RPC, I doubt another large deal will change that, so their multiple will probably stay in the dog house. That's not necessarily a bad thing though, they produce prodigious amounts of cash, but if they don't take advantage of that it's a bummer. I doubt getting to 4xnet debt/ebitda will suddenly make this thing loved by the public market, and I really would prefer them not wasting cash on retiring debt when they can borrow at 1 pct and the equity yields around 13 pct. Why do you have to ruin my morning after a glorious night of sleep, an awesome bodyweight routine, and an amazing Peloton ride while listening to MOI? Why? Why? I am going to take a shower, by the time I come back, this thread better say that Berry is going to use chemical recycling to get rid of all the plastic in the ocean. Actually, if you look at some of the press release, there is a lot of talk of sustainability and Berry is quite vocal about it. But I doubt that it changes public perception. This genuinely made me feel good about the future of humanity. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG2008 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Don't think it was mentioned here, but A.P. Møller - Holding - a large wealth fund in Denmark - recently bought Faerch Group for 14b DKK. Faerch did around 660m DKK ebitda in 2019, but they've since done some acquisitions, there's organic growth etc., so multiple is much way lower than the implied 21x2019 ebitda. Faerch is a much better business than Berry - higher growth, higher margins and better outlook - but it's also a lot further in its ESG efforts, targetting 100 pct. recycled post-consumer PET in its products in 2025, which was important for APMH buying it. Which brings me back to Berry and their role in the public markets. With something like Altria - which will never be kosher amongst ESG investors - one can not give a fuck about the share price, since they return 80 pct. of income to shareholders and a lower share price increases the effects of buybacks. I think my point is that Berry is probably as bad from an ESG-investor perspective as Altria - at least it must be close - so unless they start doing things way differently on the ESG front (I doubt it's really feasible with their shattered operations all over the globe etc.), I'd prefer if they begun to return cash to shareholders when net debt gets below that arbitrary numbers of 4xebitda. They haven't gotten any credit for the acquisition of RPC, I doubt another large deal will change that, so their multiple will probably stay in the dog house. That's not necessarily a bad thing though, they produce prodigious amounts of cash, but if they don't take advantage of that it's a bummer. I doubt getting to 4xnet debt/ebitda will suddenly make this thing loved by the public market, and I really would prefer them not wasting cash on retiring debt when they can borrow at 1 pct and the equity yields around 13 pct. Why do you have to ruin my morning after a glorious night of sleep, an awesome bodyweight routine, and an amazing Peloton ride while listening to MOI? Why? Why? I am going to take a shower, by the time I come back, this thread better say that Berry is going to use chemical recycling to get rid of all the plastic in the ocean. Actually, if you look at some of the press release, there is a lot of talk of sustainability and Berry is quite vocal about it. But I doubt that it changes public perception. This genuinely made me feel good about the future of humanity. ;D Haha, totally joking about that little tantrum btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castanza Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Don't think it was mentioned here, but A.P. Møller - Holding - a large wealth fund in Denmark - recently bought Faerch Group for 14b DKK. Faerch did around 660m DKK ebitda in 2019, but they've since done some acquisitions, there's organic growth etc., so multiple is much way lower than the implied 21x2019 ebitda. Faerch is a much better business than Berry - higher growth, higher margins and better outlook - but it's also a lot further in its ESG efforts, targetting 100 pct. recycled post-consumer PET in its products in 2025, which was important for APMH buying it. Which brings me back to Berry and their role in the public markets. With something like Altria - which will never be kosher amongst ESG investors - one can not give a fuck about the share price, since they return 80 pct. of income to shareholders and a lower share price increases the effects of buybacks. I think my point is that Berry is probably as bad from an ESG-investor perspective as Altria - at least it must be close - so unless they start doing things way differently on the ESG front (I doubt it's really feasible with their shattered operations all over the globe etc.), I'd prefer if they begun to return cash to shareholders when net debt gets below that arbitrary numbers of 4xebitda. They haven't gotten any credit for the acquisition of RPC, I doubt another large deal will change that, so their multiple will probably stay in the dog house. That's not necessarily a bad thing though, they produce prodigious amounts of cash, but if they don't take advantage of that it's a bummer. I doubt getting to 4xnet debt/ebitda will suddenly make this thing loved by the public market, and I really would prefer them not wasting cash on retiring debt when they can borrow at 1 pct and the equity yields around 13 pct. Why do you have to ruin my morning after a glorious night of sleep, an awesome bodyweight routine, and an amazing Peloton ride while listening to MOI? Why? Why? ;D Kab60 tl;dr "Are you suuure you want to eat that second donut?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG2008 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Don't think it was mentioned here, but A.P. Møller - Holding - a large wealth fund in Denmark - recently bought Faerch Group for 14b DKK. Faerch did around 660m DKK ebitda in 2019, but they've since done some acquisitions, there's organic growth etc., so multiple is much way lower than the implied 21x2019 ebitda. Faerch is a much better business than Berry - higher growth, higher margins and better outlook - but it's also a lot further in its ESG efforts, targetting 100 pct. recycled post-consumer PET in its products in 2025, which was important for APMH buying it. Which brings me back to Berry and their role in the public markets. With something like Altria - which will never be kosher amongst ESG investors - one can not give a fuck about the share price, since they return 80 pct. of income to shareholders and a lower share price increases the effects of buybacks. I think my point is that Berry is probably as bad from an ESG-investor perspective as Altria - at least it must be close - so unless they start doing things way differently on the ESG front (I doubt it's really feasible with their shattered operations all over the globe etc.), I'd prefer if they begun to return cash to shareholders when net debt gets below that arbitrary numbers of 4xebitda. They haven't gotten any credit for the acquisition of RPC, I doubt another large deal will change that, so their multiple will probably stay in the dog house. That's not necessarily a bad thing though, they produce prodigious amounts of cash, but if they don't take advantage of that it's a bummer. I doubt getting to 4xnet debt/ebitda will suddenly make this thing loved by the public market, and I really would prefer them not wasting cash on retiring debt when they can borrow at 1 pct and the equity yields around 13 pct. Why do you have to ruin my morning after a glorious night of sleep, an awesome bodyweight routine, and an amazing Peloton ride while listening to MOI? Why? Why? ;D Kab60 tl;dr "Are you suuure you want to eat that second donut?" Castanza, Come ruck with me on the beach by my house! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castanza Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Don't think it was mentioned here, but A.P. Møller - Holding - a large wealth fund in Denmark - recently bought Faerch Group for 14b DKK. Faerch did around 660m DKK ebitda in 2019, but they've since done some acquisitions, there's organic growth etc., so multiple is much way lower than the implied 21x2019 ebitda. Faerch is a much better business than Berry - higher growth, higher margins and better outlook - but it's also a lot further in its ESG efforts, targetting 100 pct. recycled post-consumer PET in its products in 2025, which was important for APMH buying it. Which brings me back to Berry and their role in the public markets. With something like Altria - which will never be kosher amongst ESG investors - one can not give a fuck about the share price, since they return 80 pct. of income to shareholders and a lower share price increases the effects of buybacks. I think my point is that Berry is probably as bad from an ESG-investor perspective as Altria - at least it must be close - so unless they start doing things way differently on the ESG front (I doubt it's really feasible with their shattered operations all over the globe etc.), I'd prefer if they begun to return cash to shareholders when net debt gets below that arbitrary numbers of 4xebitda. They haven't gotten any credit for the acquisition of RPC, I doubt another large deal will change that, so their multiple will probably stay in the dog house. That's not necessarily a bad thing though, they produce prodigious amounts of cash, but if they don't take advantage of that it's a bummer. I doubt getting to 4xnet debt/ebitda will suddenly make this thing loved by the public market, and I really would prefer them not wasting cash on retiring debt when they can borrow at 1 pct and the equity yields around 13 pct. Why do you have to ruin my morning after a glorious night of sleep, an awesome bodyweight routine, and an amazing Peloton ride while listening to MOI? Why? Why? ;D Kab60 tl;dr "Are you suuure you want to eat that second donut?" Castanza, Come ruck with me on the beach by my house! Only if you supply the matching Rocky Balboa grey sweatsuits ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG2008 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 I was thinking more like the Rocky and Apollo short shorts like the GIF below. Sky's out thighs out! https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftenor.com%2Fsearch%2Frocky-apollo-gifs&psig=AOvVaw1z4hqAFhucdl2NGTLNusD7&ust=1611250131665000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCMD76dCEq-4CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregmal Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Lame, no banana hammocks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kab60 Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share Posted February 5, 2021 Great Q, raises guidance a bit (with room for further raise down the line). 7 pct org volume growth, expect 4 pct for FY. Sight towards buybacks EOY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Looks like a great result with strong organic growth. I own just a little unfortunately (recently bought some shares). One thing that caught my eye is increasing intangibles QoQ from $8.323B to $8.459B - where do those come from? They are writing off intangibles with amortization to the tune of $75M every quarter. is this a currency effect from the rising GBP or EUR? I guess that must be a reason because I don't think they purchased anything. It's not really material but more of a curiosity question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwy000 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Looks like a great result with strong organic growth. I own just a little unfortunately (recently bought some shares). One thing that caught my eye is increasing intangibles QoQ from $8.323B to $8.459B - where do those come from? They are writing off intangibles with amortization to the tune of $75M every quarter. is this a currency effect from the rising GBP or EUR? I guess that must be a reason because I dont they purchased anything. It's not really material but more of a curiosity question. Good question. I'm guessing currency as well given size of change and the UK acquisition. What a quarter! 11% organic growth for a company that normally targets GDP level growth. I haven't dug in but I'm assuming some of that was pass thru of material inputs as opposed to volume. Still, running at over $1bn of FCF on a sub $8bn market cap is a winner in my books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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