Coronavirus

[Liberty]

 

One additional point on how the US and UK are different:

 

Very successful countries do many tests per each confirmed case.

New Zealand for example did 145,589 tests and confirmed 1134 cases → 0.8% of all tests confirmed a case.

 

In the US this rate is 16.3% and in the UK 22.5%.

 

 

[Cigarbutt]

Looks like treatment for Covid is changing.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6490/455

"Among the many surprises of the new coronavirus is one that seems to defy basic biology: infected patients with extraordinarily low blood-oxygen levels, or hypoxia, scrolling on their phones, chatting with doctors, and generally describing themselves as comfortable. Clinicians call them happy hypoxics."

.....

In serious cases of COVID-19, patients struggle to breathe with damaged lungs, but early in the disease, low saturation isn't always coupled with obvious respiratory difficulties. Carbon dioxide levels can be normal, and breathing deeply is comfortable—“the lung is inflating so they feel OK,” says Elnara Marcia Negri, a pulmonologist at Hospital Sírio-Libanês in São Paulo. But oxygen saturation, measured by a device clipped to a finger and in many cases confirmed with blood tests, can be in the 70s, 60s, or 50s. Or even lower. Although mountain climbers can have similar readings, here the slide downward, some doctors believe, is potentially “ominous,” says Nicholas Caputo, an emergency physician at New York City Health + Hospitals/Lincoln.

Seems like doctors have identified blood coagulation as a potential reason and using heparin.  Here is a hospital guideline.

https://www.massgeneral.org/assets/MGH/pdf/news/coronavirus/guidance-from-mass-general-hematology.pdf

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200426/Early-Heparin-therapy-improves-hypoxia-in-COVID-19-patients.aspx

The systemic use of heparin for treating severe coronavirus disease (COVID-19) showed significant improvements in oxygen exchange and overall clinical presentation of patients, as reported by a study from Brazil available on a preprint server medRxiv.

Some articles are also recommending using oximeters as breathing would seem ok and would help to get early treatment*

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/sunday/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html

Some doctors are recommending starting with CPAP/Bipap oxygen support as the patients are breathing ok

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-overused-for-covid-19/

Even as hospitals and governors raise the alarm about a shortage of ventilators, some critical care physicians are questioning the widespread use of the breathing machines for Covid-19 patients, saying that large numbers of patients could instead be treated with less intensive respiratory support.

Would be interesting to see how these changes would effect the fatality rates.

For the coagulation part, it's been suggested that anticoagulation could be associated with a better outcome for more severe presentations but most people admitted in ICUs these days typically get anticoagulation anyways so this does not seem promising in terms of more than a possible marginal improvement in some cases.

The more promising treatment options will likely directly interfere with the viral load itself and not with the consequences of the virus.

From the Massachusetts General Hospital guidelines

"All patients admitted to MGH for COVID-19 (including non-critically ill) should receive standard prophylactic anticoagulation with LMWH"

Looks like all admissions, not just ICU.

It appears that CV patients somehow (especially the sicker cohorts) are relatively more prone to blood clots and related complications versus comparable 'populations' of sick people coming in the hospital. The specific CV mechanism of action is still unknown but it's helpful to remember that very sick patients (from any causes when basic body defense mechanisms are overwhelmed) tend to run into various forms of multi-organ failure which often includes various forms of intravascular clotting disarray.

The point i was politely trying to make is that agents that are used when the process is far advanced are unlikely to induce miracle changes in results. The typical CV patient that enters a hospital will typically carry associated risk factors (age, obesity, diabetes, hypertension etc) that (in themselves and based on guidelines that existed before CV) are sufficient to prescribe a blood thinner such as LMWH (not to be confused with LVMH) so this heparin 'breakthrough' is unlikely to be a new significant independent factors for CV patients. When poor results happen in large waves, it's probably useful to think upstream as much as possible (drug that stop and reverse rising viral load) and you may even consider how come there is such a basin of at-risks patients in the population (the host). Of course, this is not reserved to the healthcare system; it happens all the time in the financial world also (low tendency to think upstream) and people hope for miracle cures in hard times while underemphasizing what led there in the first place. It's surprising how many diseases eventually go away on their own, almost spontaneously. For some however, waiting for complications can hurt one's health.

[Liberty]

Thats not what Im saying at all. Posting an opinion from someone on Twitter isn't a fact. Thats all. Frankly, Ive always been of the opinion that the majority of people on Twitter are total losers. Specifically ones that sit around all day commenting on stupid shit like memes and raising controversies that dont really have any purpose, POTUS 45 would be the grandest example of this, but 95% of Twitter users fall into this category. Its a way for little people to feel important. Very, very self inflating being able to # and tweet @ important people like celebrities and media personalities too; a cheap lotto ticket shot at your 15 minutes of fame.

 

You're just repeating yourself, and I've already addressed this point. The medium doesn't matter. If I'm linking to a virologist or an article, does it matter if its through Twitter or elsewhere? The content matters, judge things on their merit.

 

You're just attacking the messenger because that's the cheapest vector of attack for those who don't have anything to say. It's also a reflex that people like Trump cultivate in their followers, because if you can't hide that you did something, at least you can train your followers to reflexively not believe any source that would report it (hence the fake news and attacks on the media, except the media that propagandize for him and don't report the bad stuff that he does).

 

You sound like a "get off my lawn" old man. A few years ago they used to say that anything you saw on the internet was inferior/not credible and only things in print or on TV were real. Now you're the new version of this attacking Twitter and defending.. what? You get your good info from where? Breitbart and Fox News? Meanwhile, Twitter contains the best and the worst of humanity, just like everywhere else, which is exactly why you shouldn't judge the medium.

[clutch]

This is pure gold...*shakes my head*

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-politics-52553229

 

"Coronavirus: Prof Neil Ferguson quits government role after 'undermining' lockdown"

 

Ferguson is the author of the famous Imperial College modeling paper (has not been even peer-reviewed, btw) and arguably was the biggest influencer in implementing the lock-down policies in Europe. And now he himself broke the social-distancing rule!

 

 

[Liberty]

Because Jared Kushner did such a great job so far, he's now being given new responsibilities for the vaccine development (oh, and Peter Navarro too):

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kushner-botched-the-covid-response-now-trumps-tapped-him-to-get-a-vaccine-by-the-end-of-2020

 

President Donald Trump, who has said he believes a COVID-19 vaccine will be available by the end of the year, is turning to his son-in-law to help streamline the effort, branded, “Operation Warp Speed.” Kushner is working alongside White House senior adviser Peter Navarro, who pitched the operation via memo to the president’s coronavirus task force as early as this February.

 

Can you imagine if Obama or W. Bush gave this job, during a pandemic with 70k deaths so far, to his cousin or brother-in-law or whatever?

[Dalal.Holdings]

Can you imagine if Obama or W. Bush gave this job, during a pandemic with 70k deaths so far, to his cousin or brother-in-law or whatever?

 

Yep, I can imagine it pretty easily—they’d be roasted by Trump supporters because Trump always gets a pass and he knows this (as he showed with shooting on 5th avenue example).

 

Double standards for Mr. “Always looking out for the little guy” Trump.

[Jurgis]

Because Jared Kushner did such a great job so far, he's now being given new responsibilities for the vaccine development (oh, and Peter Navarro too):

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kushner-botched-the-covid-response-now-trumps-tapped-him-to-get-a-vaccine-by-the-end-of-2020

 

President Donald Trump, who has said he believes a COVID-19 vaccine will be available by the end of the year, is turning to his son-in-law to help streamline the effort, branded, “Operation Warp Speed.” Kushner is working alongside White House senior adviser Peter Navarro, who pitched the operation via memo to the president’s coronavirus task force as early as this February.

 

Can you imagine if Obama or W. Bush gave this job, during a pandemic with 70k deaths so far, to his cousin or brother-in-law or whatever?

 

Deep state is to blame. It's a witch hunt - nobody wants to work for El Presidente. Only some true patriots like Jared-boy are sacrificing their lives and working 24 hour days covering the holes left by the evil apparatchiks who are gleefully pushing for Trump's downfall! Shame on deep state! Go Jared-o! Make vaccine great again!

[Liberty]

https://news.yahoo.com/live-let-die-blasts-president-013638094.html

 

As President Trump toured an N95 mask manufacturing plant in Phoenix on Tuesday, his visit through the facility was accompanied by a head-scratching musical soundtrack: the Paul McCartney-penned “Live and Let Die,” as performed by Guns 'N Roses.

 

 

President Trump, not wearing a mask, toured a Honeywell plant that manufactures personal protective equipment Tuesday in Phoenix.

[orthopa]

I didnt see it either.  ;) Ive been busy over redigging the holes to move the goal posts to retroactively prove what antibodies and these stories have told us.  ::)

 

Looking back in the thread I took some pretty good heat for this. Im for one glad this info keeps coming out. Good to see.

 

You've been proven wrong, and still won't acknowledge it. It's pretty clear that only data that supports your old arguments matter to you.

 

Remind me again what it was I wrong about? Feel free to search my posts quote etc. I know this is really beating a dead horse but Id like to see what you come up with.

[Spekulatius]

Because Jared Kushner did such a great job so far, he's now being given new responsibilities for the vaccine development (oh, and Peter Navarro too):

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kushner-botched-the-covid-response-now-trumps-tapped-him-to-get-a-vaccine-by-the-end-of-2020

 

President Donald Trump, who has said he believes a COVID-19 vaccine will be available by the end of the year, is turning to his son-in-law to help streamline the effort, branded, “Operation Warp Speed.” Kushner is working alongside White House senior adviser Peter Navarro, who pitched the operation via memo to the president’s coronavirus task force as early as this February.

 

Can you imagine if Obama or W. Bush gave this job, during a pandemic with 70k deaths so far, to his cousin or brother-in-law or whatever?

 

Deep state is to blame. It's a witch hunt - nobody wants to work for El Presidente. Only some true patriots like Jared-boy are sacrificing their lives and working 24 hour days covering the holes left by the evil apparatchiks who are gleefully pushing for Trump's downfall! Shame on deep state! Go Jared-o! Make vaccine great again!

 

In my opinion, Trump is just Chavez with a better starting point in terms of institutions and economy.  Chavez was roasted early on for running the country “like his hacienda“, that’s exactly what Trump does.

Chavez even had his own news show on TV where he would endlessly blabber nonsense without script just like Trump “Coronavirus show”. Both are populists . They are really two sides of the same coin.

 

Given enough time ( which he won’t have because of term limits) we would end up at the same point.

[ERICOPOLY]

Because Jared Kushner did such a great job so far, he's now being given new responsibilities for the vaccine development (oh, and Peter Navarro too):

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kushner-botched-the-covid-response-now-trumps-tapped-him-to-get-a-vaccine-by-the-end-of-2020

 

President Donald Trump, who has said he believes a COVID-19 vaccine will be available by the end of the year, is turning to his son-in-law to help streamline the effort, branded, “Operation Warp Speed.” Kushner is working alongside White House senior adviser Peter Navarro, who pitched the operation via memo to the president’s coronavirus task force as early as this February.

 

Can you imagine if Obama or W. Bush gave this job, during a pandemic with 70k deaths so far, to his cousin or brother-in-law or whatever?

 

Deep state is to blame. It's a witch hunt - nobody wants to work for El Presidente. Only some true patriots like Jared-boy are sacrificing their lives and working 24 hour days covering the holes left by the evil apparatchiks who are gleefully pushing for Trump's downfall! Shame on deep state! Go Jared-o! Make vaccine great again!

 

In my opinion, Trump is just Chavez with a better starting point in terms of institutions and economy.  Chavez was roasted early on for running the country “like his hacienda“, that’s exactly what Trump does.

Chavez even had his own news show on TV where he would endlessly blabber nonsense without script just like Trump “Coronavirus show”. Both are populists . They are really two sides of the same coin.

 

Given enough time ( which he won’t have because of term limits) we would end up at the same point.

 

Jared&Ivanka ticket is the workaround to the term limits.  Trump is putting them into visible positions.

[orthopa]

Cuomo in the press conference today says CDC believe virus hit east coast in late 2019. More goal post moving on my behalf around the it was widespread for longer then we thought theory.

[Cigarbutt]

Because Jared Kushner did such a great job so far, he's now being given new responsibilities for the vaccine development (oh, and Peter Navarro too):

https://www.thedailybeast.com/kushner-botched-the-covid-response-now-trumps-tapped-him-to-get-a-vaccine-by-the-end-of-2020

President Donald Trump, who has said he believes a COVID-19 vaccine will be available by the end of the year, is turning to his son-in-law to help streamline the effort, branded, “Operation Warp Speed.” Kushner is working alongside White House senior adviser Peter Navarro, who pitched the operation via memo to the president’s coronavirus task force as early as this February.

Can you imagine if Obama or W. Bush gave this job, during a pandemic with 70k deaths so far, to his cousin or brother-in-law or whatever?

Deep state is to blame. It's a witch hunt - nobody wants to work for El Presidente. Only some true patriots like Jared-boy are sacrificing their lives and working 24 hour days covering the holes left by the evil apparatchiks who are gleefully pushing for Trump's downfall! Shame on deep state! Go Jared-o! Make vaccine great again!

In my opinion, Trump is just Chavez with a better starting point in terms of institutions and economy.  Chavez was roasted early on for running the country “like his hacienda“, that’s exactly what Trump does.

Chavez even had his own news show on TV where he would endlessly blabber nonsense without script just like Trump “Coronavirus show”. Both are populists . They are really two sides of the same coin.

Given enough time ( which he won’t have because of term limits) we would end up at the same point.

Jared&Ivanka ticket is the workaround to the term limits.  Trump is putting them into visible positions.

Perhaps the following quote from Why Nations Fail is relevant in a time when we're hoping that viral genetic drift will go in the right direction:

"These differences are often small to start with, but they cumulate, creating a process of institutional drift. Just as two isolated populations of organisms will drift apart slowly in a process of genetic drift, because random genetic mutations cumulate, two otherwise similar societies will also slowly drift apart institutionally. Though, just like genetic drift, institutional drift has no predetermined path and does not even need to be cumulative; over centuries it can lead to perceptible, sometimes important differences. The differences created by institutional drift become especially consequential, because they influence how society reacts to changes in economic or political circumstances during critical junctures."

i don't think the US will fail because it has so much capital (human, social and otherwise) but one should be careful with institutional drift of the secret sauce recipe.

[Investor20]

Why no discussion about Japan?

 

The daily cases show steady decrease after maximum at about 600 in middle of April to now about 180-200.

 

For a crowded, cold country with subways and bullet trains (public transport), old age its pretty good

without lockdown.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/japan/

 

This anomaly was apparently what got some people to look into the BCG theory that I posted about a while ago. It has some merit (IMO) and a clinical trial is underway in Australia and a few other places. I hope it proves correct as that would greatly improve the outlook.

 

China always had BCG.

UK had till 2005

France till 2007

Spain 1981

 

Since most people dying are very old, they must be BCG vaccinated in China, UK, France and Spain. 

 

I picked Japan though most south east asian countries have low Covid incidence since Japan is cold, with older population, has subways and crowded. 

 

If Japan had low incidence because of BCG, China should have had low incidence too and not need lockdown.

 

UK, France and Spain would had low Covid too.

 

http://www.bcgatlas.org/index.php

[Liberty]

Jared&Ivanka ticket is the workaround to the term limits.  Trump is putting them into visible positions.

 

That may be part of it. The family certainly wants to keep power to protect itself with pardon power (everybody that used to be around them is already in jail or in trouble, and they know they'd be too without presidential power).

 

The main reason is the same reason why organized crime is mostly centered on family and tribal ties.

 

If you're doing shady stuff, what matters most is loyalty. Anything else, like competence, is secondary. There's very few people you can be sure won't turn on you (and anyone who does must be so severely punished that it'll dissuade others, so that explains all the talk about treason-death-penalty for whistleblowers or whatever he always blows up about when someone reveals what has been doing on, and unrelenting attacks for months for any public figure who attacks him (how many months did he attack Megyn Kelly because she asked him some tough questions?)).

 

So Trump is surrounded by family, old business associates that probably have secrets buried too, and those who have gone so deep defending him that they'd be hurt if he was hurt.

 

That's why all those that didn't defend him after the access hollywood tape and allegations were out. It turned out to be a real-world test of loyalty, and many failed it by not blindly jumping to his defense.

 

The first thing he asked Comey was for his loyalty, and you can be sure that's what he asked of everyone else at the time, they just didn't talk about it (yet), but the books on this will be interesting. If anyone wants to better understand how the White House works, the Bob Woodward book is informative.

[Liberty]

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/496241-joint-chiefs-of-staff-chairman-says-evidence-suggests-coronavirus-was-not

 

"Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman says evidence suggests coronavirus was not man-made or released from lab"

 

Hmmm. so the Director of National Intelligence, Fauci and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs say one thing, while Pompeo and Trump say another. Who to believe?

 

[RichardGibbons]

=

Remind me again what it was I wrong about? Feel free to search my posts quote etc. I know this is really beating a dead horse but Id like to see what you come up with.

 

That there were hundreds of thousands or millions of cases of COVID-19 in the USA in February or early March and that it wasn't a big deal. We now know what hundreds of thousands or millions of cases of COVID-19 looks like, and it wasn't what it looked like back then.

 

(Same answer as last time.)

[LongHaul]

Why no discussion about Japan?

 

The daily cases show steady decrease after maximum at about 600 in middle of April to now about 180-200.

 

For a crowded, cold country with subways and bullet trains (public transport), old age its pretty good

without lockdown.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/japan/

 

Japan is a fascinating case study.  Another East Asian Country that I would give an A+.  My neighbor was a high level protein researcher and we have discussed it a lot.

 

1.  They wear masks.  Before Covid they would wear masks culturally - if sick, allergies, etc.

2.  Social distancing - bows, etc.

3.  Quieter culture.  The louder a culture is perhaps the more the virus spreads.  Explains the big mouth New York theory!

4.  Clean culture of washing hands carefully, etc.

 

I think the biggest thing is the masks though.  Reduces the RO a ton.

 

I am not sure if I posted this but Island in Northern Japan had increase in virus after pressure to open up

https://time.com/5826918/hokkaido-coronavirus-lockdown/

 

In my opinion the US has handled this whole thing very badly (could have been worse though) because of Trump not being an intelligent and effective leader.

 

The reality is that in the US this has turned into the survival of the fittest - if you have a weakened immune system or put yourself at risk you are more likely to die. 

[arcube]

Why no discussion about Japan?

 

The daily cases show steady decrease after maximum at about 600 in middle of April to now about 180-200.

 

For a crowded, cold country with subways and bullet trains (public transport), old age its pretty good

without lockdown.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/japan/

 

Japan is a fascinating case study.  Another East Asian Country that I would give an A+.  My neighbor was a high level protein researcher and we have discussed it a lot.

 

1.  They wear masks.  Before Covid they would wear masks culturally - if sick, allergies, etc.

2.  Social distancing - bows, etc.

3.  Quieter culture.  The louder a culture is perhaps the more the virus spreads.  Explains the big mouth New York theory!

4.  Clean culture of washing hands carefully, etc.

 

I think the biggest thing is the masks though.  Reduces the RO a ton.

 

I am not sure if I posted this but Island in Northern Japan had increase in virus after pressure to open up

https://time.com/5826918/hokkaido-coronavirus-lockdown/

 

In my opinion the US has handled this whole thing very badly (could have been worse though) because of Trump not being an intelligent and effective leader.

 

The reality is that in the US this has turned into the survival of the fittest - if you have a weakened immune system or put yourself at risk you are more likely to die.

 

+1. I also think this guy has the best response for what should have been done.

 

 

Administration closed it's eyes given who is running the show. No one knew the chain of responsibility and when a leader is always there to take credit and shift responsibility you have a team of losers. This has been an utter shame. Almost 100K people perished and there is hardly any talk of it.

 

 

[Liberty]

Always be selling:

 

 

Trump on the Coronavirus task for:

 

"I thought we could wind it down sooner. But I had no idea how popular the task force is until actually yesterday when I started talking about winding down...It is appreciated by the public."

 

Wait, he's keeping it around because it's popular?

 

Still thinking like a TV personality, all about ratings, which he mentions all the time...

[Liberty]

There should be so much more emphasis on learning and copying what successful places have done.

 

Germany:

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-germany-kept-its-factories-open-during-the-pandemic-11588774844

 

Throughout the six-week national lockdown that now is gradually being lifted, the family-owned company kept its domestic factories running at 80% of normal capacity, said Chief Executive Officer Stefan Brandl.

 

Social distancing, ubiquitous face masks, in-house Covid-19 tests and contact-tracing when employees fell ill helped the company keep its plants open. Just 15 of its 6,700 employees in Germany have contracted the virus, the company said.

 

Also:

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-casts-deep-chill-over-u-s-china-relations-11588781420

 

Mr. Trump twice declined suggestions from his team in January to press Mr. Xi for more transparency about the virus’s causes and symptoms, in one case saying that the criticism could cause Beijing to be less helpful, said White House officials

[Viking]

We are starting to get economic data on what is going on. Looks like 2020 is going to be ugly in Europe. And falling inflation...

 

‘Recession of historic proportions’: EU predicts 7.5-per-cent contraction in 2020

- https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/international-business/european-business/article-recession-of-historic-proportions-eu-predicts-75-per-cent/

 

The European Union predicted Wednesday “a recession of historic proportions this year” due to the impact of the coronavirus as it released its first official estimates of the damage the pandemic is inflicting on the bloc’s economy.

 

The 27-nation EU economy is predicted to contract by 7.5 per cent this year, before growing by about 6 per cent in 2021. The group of 19 nations using the euro as their currency will see a record decline of 7.75 per cent this year, and grow by 6.25 per cent in 2021, the European Commission said in its Spring economic forecast.

 

“It is now quite clear that the EU has entered the deepest economic recession in its history,” EU Economy Commissioner Paolo Gentiloni told reporters in Brussels. As the virus hit, “economic activity in the EU dropped by around one third practically overnight,” he said.

 

... The pandemic has hurt consumer spending, industrial output, investment, trade, capital flows and supply chains. It has also hit jobs. The unemployment rate across the 27-nation EU is forecast to rise from 6.7 per cent in 2019 to 9 per cent in 2020 but then fall to around 8 per cent in 2021, the commission said. Beyond that, Gentiloni said, “we will have a massive drop in hours worked.”

 

Inflation is also set to be significantly weaker as consumer prices fall amid a sharp weakening of demand and drop in oil prices. Investment too is likely to contract, with firms expected to postpone or cancel their investment plans amid the uncertainty. Exporters will not be spared, with continued disruption to movements of people, goods and services likely.

[Investor20]

Why no discussion about Japan?

 

The daily cases show steady decrease after maximum at about 600 in middle of April to now about 180-200.

 

For a crowded, cold country with subways and bullet trains (public transport), old age its pretty good

without lockdown.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/japan/

 

Japan is a fascinating case study.  Another East Asian Country that I would give an A+.  My neighbor was a high level protein researcher and we have discussed it a lot.

 

1.  They wear masks.  Before Covid they would wear masks culturally - if sick, allergies, etc.

2.  Social distancing - bows, etc.

3.  Quieter culture.  The louder a culture is perhaps the more the virus spreads.  Explains the big mouth New York theory!

4.  Clean culture of washing hands carefully, etc.

 

I think the biggest thing is the masks though.  Reduces the RO a ton.

 

I am not sure if I posted this but Island in Northern Japan had increase in virus after pressure to open up

https://time.com/5826918/hokkaido-coronavirus-lockdown/

 

In my opinion the US has handled this whole thing very badly (could have been worse though) because of Trump not being an intelligent and effective leader.

 

The reality is that in the US this has turned into the survival of the fittest - if you have a weakened immune system or put yourself at risk you are more likely to die.

 

I agree most of your points than the leadership part.

 

It is not like all western leaders are bad and SE asian countries leaders are good but there is a big difference by an order of 40 to 100 fold the difference in results.

 

Their approaches have been different, culturally different too and that made the majority of difference.

 

Interestingly even though our Trump bashers here keep saying its the testing that made difference, you dont find from worldometer any correlation between testing and the deaths per million.

 

For example Germany is supposed to be best from west and has 86 deaths/million.  Japan has 4 deaths/million and Taiwan 0.3 deaths/million.

 

If you watch the Korean expert, he also says its the masks that made the difference and does not high light testing.

 

 

If you dont have time to listen to all of it, just try to listen to last one minute of his advise to western countries. Its masks he says.

 

[stahleyp]

I think Kushner is incredibly incompetent so I might vote for him in hopes that he crashes the system. He might even do a better job at that than Trump.  ;D

[Liberty]

I think Kushner is incredibly incompetent so I might vote for him in hopes that he crashes the system. He might even do a better job at that than Trump.  ;D

 

I love how some people have been convinced that "crashing the system" will be good for them, or will somehow lead to what they want to see happen, rather than just the opposite (a society with an even bigger, more corrupt, more incompetent government and fewer freedoms is the most likely outcome of a big crash, not a small, efficient, honest government and more liberty).

 

They're the people who con artists and charlatans just love.