Coronavirus

[Liberty]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/18/havens-dr-atul-gawande-coronavirus-spread-can-be-slowed-if-60percent-of-people-wear-masks.html

 

Dr. Atul Gawande told CNBC on Monday that people must take seriously the responsibility of wearing a face mask to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

“If we can get over 60% of us wearing masks that are 60% effective ... we can shut down the virus,” Gawande said on “Squawk Box.”

[Gregmal]

It is the liberals fault Trump is elected.

 

So the liberals gut large parts of America and play identity politics. Now you have, as greg said, a real monster at the helm. There is also a decent likelihood that he'll be re-elected.

 

The liberals made their bed. Now it's time to sleep in it.

 

No doubt - and to think these clowns had 4 years to put up a reasonable candidate out of millions of democrats.

They come up with a string of losers while dividing the country.

 

Nothing like handing the election to Trump again - only this time - they will have to blame themselves, not the god awful, despicable Hillary Clinton or the Russians.

 

This is by and large why you saw so many(not coincidentally) liberals get so excited about the coronavirus. It was their next and probably last big chance to blame everything on Trump and try to bring him down. Heck, you even had headlines claiming Trump was responsible for crashing the economy... it was all pretty amusing but also sad they sought to take tragedy and hardship and use it to make yet another attempt at bringing him down.

[stahleyp]

Bush is a hack too. His tax cuts were ridiculous.

 

Reagan also wanted to return to the gold standard. I do think that would have improved things from the "free spending" that we have now. I also think that would've made recessions deeper but not sure how bad that is long term. It's good for people to have pain every once in a while.

 

The deficits do help the red states for entitlements. However, I would argue that the entitlements are there because people don't have jobs. I would much rather the government build a factory and give people jobs rather than just hand out money. Would the factory be super efficient? No. But it would gives people a purpose. If the deficits weren't happening, the economy would suffer. Thereby causing stock prices to fall (all else being equal at least). Most of the folks receiving entitlements are spending almost all of their income.

 

Low interest rates help big tech because it increases their valuations (which helps them with acquisitions). The same areas of expensive real estate also benefit disproportionately. How many $1 million (or $5 million) homes would exist if interest rates were at 8%? How many $200,000 houses? The $1 million homes benefit more than the $200,000 homes.

 

I agree that low interest would help capital intensive industries more. I don't think it would help as much as paying employees far less. With all of these "trade deals" companies can higher cheaper which overpowers the ability for low interest rates. However, the low interest rates and cheaper labor power the stock market. 

 

CA and NY attract a lot of smart, capable and hardworking people. The forces of low interest rates and deficits simply force that in a harder way.

 

I agree that regulators are to blame. I also blame Wall St. There was a story I heard that the original partners felt so bad during the Great Depression (or some other melt down) that they actually reimbursed their clients. I believe that was from the book Quiet but could be mistaken. That certainly doesn't happen anymore.

[ERICOPOLY]

It is the liberals fault Trump is elected.

 

So the liberals gut large parts of America and play identity politics. Now you have, as greg said, a real monster at the helm. There is also a decent likelihood that he'll be re-elected.

 

The liberals made their bed. Now it's time to sleep in it.

 

No doubt - and to think these clowns had 4 years to put up a reasonable candidate out of millions of democrats.

They come up with a string of losers while dividing the country.

 

Nothing like handing the election to Trump again - only this time - they will have to blame themselves, not the god awful, despicable Hillary Clinton or the Russians.

 

This is by and large why you saw so many(not coincidentally) liberals get so excited about the coronavirus. It was their next and probably last big chance to blame everything on Trump and try to bring him down. Heck, you even had headlines claiming Trump was responsible for crashing the economy... it was all pretty amusing but also sad they sought to take tragedy and hardship and use it to make yet another attempt at bringing him down.

 

As the Liberals respond to the virus in the manner that most other Western nations have done, the Trumpers falsely claim it's a plot to politicize the response;  in this manner the Trumpers are politicizing the crisis by playing the victim to yet another politically motivated conspiracy theory.

 

[Liberty]

I see some people have learned their lessons from the sociopath in chief. Gaslight to the very end, take no responsibility for anything, take all credit for whatever works, blame others for whatever doesn't work. Change the (fictional) narrative as events unfold so you always rewrite history with your side on the right side. Now Trump is the democrats' fault!!

 

Trump is 100% the responsibility of the Republican party and will be until the end of time. He's their nominee, their president, and all those in positions of power within the party that initially opposed him either switched to enable him or remained silent while he trampled everything the party claimed it stood for. Even Romney could barely muster a little courage and only briefly.

 

It's abundantly clear that any bad normal politician that I would normally complain about would still be 1000x better than Trump just by having normal human cognition and a modicum of competence and shame. The normal bad politicians may be 50,000th down my list of leaders I'd pick, but when you compare against someone who's 300,000,000th down the list, they look downright great. That's quite the feat!

[Investor20]

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25410/20200421/austria-90-drop-coronavirus-cases-requiring-people-wear-face-masks.htm

 

"Austria Has 90% Drop in Coronavirus Cases After Requiring People to Wear Face Masks"

 

If only the US could do the same rapidly and effectively and masks hadn't been politicized by imbeciles... Sad!

 

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

"If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.

Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing." -WHO still has this on their website.

 

Not my opinion to be clear.

 

Yeah, that was a lie (likely with the good intention of stopping a run on scarce PPE in the early days). Now do Trump’s lies instead of cherry picking. He’s in charge in the US, not the WHO. No other competent countries have been stopped by this.. because they’re trying to defeat the virus rather than look for others to blame.

 

Did you forget the Surgeon Generals tweet "Seriously people - STOP BUYING MASKS!'.  That is actually surgeon general of USA, not WHO.

 

Even as recent as April 2nd Dr. Fauci was struggling to support using masks. (Dr. Fauci also works for US govt, not WHO)

 

https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/213806963020721/

 

But Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese...etc started using masks from January.

 

I can understand if many people who were told for several months to not wear a mask and put in lockdown and suddenly told all you had to do is wear a mask might be little bit not convinced.

 

Yeah, you're making my point. The US response has been incompetent, in good part because of the war on experts from the Trump admin and putting cronies in charge based on loyalty rather than competence, and not listening to the competent people or allowing them to run things (Fauci, etc) because the honcho can't share the spotlight or be contradicted or stay focused on anything long enough to understand it and follow through with a plan.

 

And everybody made early mistakes, the point is to correct them fast and copy from those that are doing well and have a plan that makes sense based on the best science and data, to use all tools at your disposal, to communicate clearly to the population with a unified message and not to politicize a health issue, etc. It's worth throwing the kitchen sink at it because the cost of he pandemic is so high that anything that shortens it or reduces intensity pays for itself a million times over, as Taiwan and South Kore and New Zealand and Honk Kong are finding out.

 

The US has been doing the opposite of all this, which is why 4% of world population had 30%+ of deaths and the curve hasn't been crushed, but rather is just slowly melting (and could restart after a few weeks of re-opening).

 

Both Dr. Fauci and Dr. Brix are not Trump appointments.  Dr. Fauci says he advised all presidents since Reagan.  Dr. Brix had also served under Obama administration and had many prior appointments.

[stahleyp]

Do you think Trump would be president if people who voted for Trump were better off? I know a lot of Trump voters. Only very few of them actually like him. People voted for him because they are desperate and/or angry.

 

Obama's poor policies led to Trump. If Obama would have been less of a Wall Street and China puppet, we wouldn't have Trump. I'll also place blame on Clinton and Bush (but considering we had Democrats for 16 years and Republicans for 8, they get most of the blame).

 

Keep in mind that I voted more times for Obama than I did Trump (1 vote to 0).

 

[ERICOPOLY]

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25410/20200421/austria-90-drop-coronavirus-cases-requiring-people-wear-face-masks.htm

 

"Austria Has 90% Drop in Coronavirus Cases After Requiring People to Wear Face Masks"

 

If only the US could do the same rapidly and effectively and masks hadn't been politicized by imbeciles... Sad!

 

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

"If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.

Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing." -WHO still has this on their website.

 

Not my opinion to be clear.

 

Yeah, that was a lie (likely with the good intention of stopping a run on scarce PPE in the early days). Now do Trump’s lies instead of cherry picking. He’s in charge in the US, not the WHO. No other competent countries have been stopped by this.. because they’re trying to defeat the virus rather than look for others to blame.

 

Did you forget the Surgeon Generals tweet "Seriously people - STOP BUYING MASKS!'.  That is actually surgeon general of USA, not WHO.

 

Even as recent as April 2nd Dr. Fauci was struggling to support using masks. (Dr. Fauci also works for US govt, not WHO)

 

https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/213806963020721/

 

But Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese...etc started using masks from January.

 

I can understand if many people who were told for several months to not wear a mask and put in lockdown and suddenly told all you had to do is wear a mask might be little bit not convinced.

 

Yeah, you're making my point. The US response has been incompetent, in good part because of the war on experts from the Trump admin and putting cronies in charge based on loyalty rather than competence, and not listening to the competent people or allowing them to run things (Fauci, etc) because the honcho can't share the spotlight or be contradicted or stay focused on anything long enough to understand it and follow through with a plan.

 

And everybody made early mistakes, the point is to correct them fast and copy from those that are doing well and have a plan that makes sense based on the best science and data, to use all tools at your disposal, to communicate clearly to the population with a unified message and not to politicize a health issue, etc. It's worth throwing the kitchen sink at it because the cost of he pandemic is so high that anything that shortens it or reduces intensity pays for itself a million times over, as Taiwan and South Kore and New Zealand and Honk Kong are finding out.

 

The US has been doing the opposite of all this, which is why 4% of world population had 30%+ of deaths and the curve hasn't been crushed, but rather is just slowly melting (and could restart after a few weeks of re-opening).

 

Both Dr. Fauci and Dr. Brix are not Trump appointments.  Dr. Fauci says he advised all presidents since Reagan.  Dr. Brix had also served under Obama administration and had many prior appointments.

 

More likely he meant:

1. Removing the head of vaccine development

2. Soon afterwards appointed Kushner in charge of fast-tracking vaccine development.

[cubsfan]

Do you think Trump would be president if people who voted for Trump were better off? I know a lot of Trump voters. Only very few of them actually like him. People voted for him because they are desperate and/or angry.

 

Obama's poor policies led to Trump.

 

No doubt. People voted for Trump cause they could not trust Hillary, and they knew it would be a continuation of Obama's ridiculous progressive

policies that emphasized his "global outreach" (translation: America Sucks and is in Decline).

 

Americans are proud of their country and do not wish to lay down. Obama could give a rat's ass about the average American and their loss of jobs, factories, etc.

 

Unfortunately for Hillary - she had none of the charisma that the charlatan Obama possessed (yes, I voted for him).

And neither does Biden or Sanders...

 

Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

Between the Fake News and the Democratic Party that can't shoot straight - looks like it will be total destruction of Obama/Clinton Progressive Legacy

in about another 5 years. Like Greg said, CV is the Democrats only hope.

 

Americans vote with their feet.

[Liberty]

Do you think Trump would be president if people who voted for Trump were better off? I know a lot of Trump voters. Only very few of them actually like him. People voted for him because they are desperate and/or angry.

 

Obama's poor policies led to Trump. If Obama would have been less of a Wall Street and China puppet, we wouldn't have Trump. I'll also place blame on Clinton and Bush (but considering we had Democrats for 16 years and Republicans for 8, they get most of the blame).

 

Keep in mind that I voted more times for Obama than I did Trump (1 vote to 0).

 

Trump had like 3 million fewer votes than Clinton, who as a woman and a non-charistmatic politician after 8 years of one party in power had a tremendous headwind. Trump had billions in free media exposure because the media loved his antics so much (he's a TV personality after all), and then Comey came a week before election... And back then to most people who didn't pay attention, Trump was a successful businessman and manager and competent guy -- they didn't know this was just a character he plays on TV and not the real him, hopefully now they know -- and they thought he'd become presidential and stop the craziness once in office (the Pivot). So Trump won by a few tens of thousands of votes in a few swing states. He definitely wouldn't have won without Comey or Russia and his social media advantage (a lot easier to attract lots of attention when you have no shame and don't care about facts, so you can say whatever you want), and whatever else aligned to make him squeak through. He got super lucky. If you read the Woodward book, Trump himself didn't think he'd win, he didn't even prepare a transition team and didn't want to spend any money on that.

 

Contrary to what he says, he didn't win in a landslide or whatever, and his inauguration crowd wasn't bigger than Obama's (how petty is he?), there's a natural pendulum swing after 8 years of a party in power, when the incumbent can't run again, etc.

 

So yeah, people voted for him as a protest vote or because they were angry, or because they thought he was entertaining. Sure. Now he blew everything up, Washington is more corrupt than ever, with nepotism rampant, lobbyists running the show, a scandal or crisis every week, the debt and deficit ballooned more than ever, almost all his entourage now in prison or fired... and those people aren't better off, so joke's on them.

[Gregmal]

Dont people get tired of this? You can say "oh Trump supporters ignore that he does "this""...OK, lol, and the other side was that Obama supporters completely ignored his abhorrent and divisive rhetoric and corruption as well. Guess what? There s nothing any of us can do about it. Accept that, find a part of the country that best supports your lifestyle and values, and just shut the fuck up and live your life. I assure you its entirely possible and nobody's freedoms are impacted nearly to the degree you'd think given all the bitching and moaning. Even now with lockdowns...guess what? Theres lots of states that are open...

[ERICOPOLY]

Obama supporters completely ignored his abhorrent and divisive rhetoric and corruption as well.

 

Ignored?  More like couldn't find any.  Nobody from Obama's inner circle went to prison.  None were even indicted.

[Gregmal]

Obama supporters completely ignored his abhorrent and divisive rhetoric and corruption as well.

 

Ignored?  More like couldn't find any.  Nobody from Obama's inner circle went to prison.  None were even indicted.

 

You couldn't find examples of divisiveness? The constant identity politics and race baiting? The stuff now coming to light about abuses of power? Constantly throwing public servants under the bus while refusing to denounce hate groups like ANTIFA?

 

Theres a huge difference between people who say "I see this stuff but it is what it is and both sides do it" and the folks that genuinely believe its only the "other side" that does it.

[Liberty]

You couldn't find examples of divisiveness? The constant identity politics and race baiting? The stuff now coming to light about abuses of power? Constantly throwing public servants under the bus while refusing to denounce hate groups like ANTIFA?

 

Theres a huge difference between people who say "I see this stuff but it is what it is and both sides do it" and the folks that genuinely believe its only the "other side" that does it.

 

If Obama's rhetoric got this much under your skin but you're fine with Trump, you're a weird one-way snowflake. I notice you never give concrete examples of what you're talking about, because hey, fact-checking may ruin the illusion or show that it's peccadillos compared to Trump.

 

As for you making stuff up, yeah, Obama's admin wasn't particularly corrupt. Probably less than average, while Trump is off the charts bonkers.

[Jurgis]

Now Trump is the democrats' fault!!

 

Hold on, so that means Trumpers should thank Democrats for their great achievement of electing Trump.

 

And if Trumpers are unhappy about Trump being elected and blame it on Democrats, hey, there's two great ways to fix it: Trumpers have the Senate. They also have an election in November.

 

But hey just vote Trump! Give idiocracy a second chance! Electrolytes against Covid!

[Liberty]

Now Trump is the democrats' fault!!

 

Hold on, so that means Trumpers should thank Democrats for their great achievement of electing Trump.

 

And if Trumpers are unhappy about Trump being elected and blame it on Democrats, hey, there's two great ways to fix it: Trumpers have the Senate. They also have an election in November.

 

But hey just vote Trump! Give idiocracy a second chance! Electrolytes against Covid!

 

Take the argument to its logical conclusion, and German jews are to blame for Hitler's rise to power, because they weren't able to stop him. Trumper logic, QED.

[Jurgis]

Now Trump is the democrats' fault!!

 

Hold on, so that means Trumpers should thank Democrats for their great achievement of electing Trump.

 

And if Trumpers are unhappy about Trump being elected and blame it on Democrats, hey, there's two great ways to fix it: Trumpers have the Senate. They also have an election in November.

 

But hey just vote Trump! Give idiocracy a second chance! Electrolytes against Covid!

 

Take the argument to its logical conclusion, and German jews are to blame for Hitler's rise to power, because they weren't able to stop him. Trumper logic, QED.

 

You are not wrong: German jews were actually blamed for Hitler's rise to power.

[ERICOPOLY]

 

You couldn't find examples of divisiveness? The constant identity politics and race baiting? The stuff now coming to light about abuses of power? Constantly throwing public servants under the bus while refusing to denounce hate groups like ANTIFA?

 

Theres a huge difference between people who say "I see this stuff but it is what it is and both sides do it" and the folks that genuinely believe its only the "other side" that does it.

 

You couldn't find examples of divisiveness? The constant identity politics and race baiting?

 

In what manner was Obama divisive?  What identity politics?  Race baiting?  Come on, you don't believe that.  Was he speaking out against immigration?  Travel bans on muslims?  Come on.  He went out of his way to be politically correct (he's a Liberal).  Trump is like the complete opposite and runs his mouth against the other half of the country that identifies as Liberal on an almost daily basis.

 

There is nothing coming to light about abuses of power under Obama;  Trump was impeached because of his abuse of power and this rubbish about Obama is his political response

[Liberty]

Now Trump is the democrats' fault!!

 

Hold on, so that means Trumpers should thank Democrats for their great achievement of electing Trump.

 

And if Trumpers are unhappy about Trump being elected and blame it on Democrats, hey, there's two great ways to fix it: Trumpers have the Senate. They also have an election in November.

 

But hey just vote Trump! Give idiocracy a second chance! Electrolytes against Covid!

 

Take the argument to its logical conclusion, and German jews are to blame for Hitler's rise to power, because they weren't able to stop him. Trumper logic, QED.

 

You are not wrong: German jews were actually blamed for Hitler's rise to power.

 

[Gregmal]

You couldn't find examples of divisiveness? The constant identity politics and race baiting? The stuff now coming to light about abuses of power? Constantly throwing public servants under the bus while refusing to denounce hate groups like ANTIFA?

 

Theres a huge difference between people who say "I see this stuff but it is what it is and both sides do it" and the folks that genuinely believe its only the "other side" that does it.

 

If Obama's rhetoric got this much under your skin but you're fine with Trump, you're a weird one-way snowflake. I notice you never give concrete examples of what you're talking about, because hey, fact-checking may ruin the illusion or show that it's peccadillos compared to Trump.

 

As for you making stuff up, yeah, Obama's admin wasn't particularly corrupt. Probably less than average, while Trump is off the charts bonkers.

 

So in summary:

 

I didn't give examples of Trump either, so what? I said it doesnt matter whether I am fine with it or not, there's nothing I can do about either.

 

And yea, great that you are resorting to the "scale" of corruption to measures the "degrees" to which Obama was (subjectively and non fact based) "less corrupt" than "average"... got it.

[cubsfan]

Obama legacy:

 

- The great American spying on his political opponents - only a corrupt politician like Obama would do this, KNOWING he would not

get caught because Hillary was destined to be President. OOPS Barack - Trump won - and now you are fucked unless you can impeach him!

 

- IRS used to silence conservative political action groups by use of widespread extensive audits. OOPS Lois Lerner - you take the fall for Barack!

 

- Disaster at Benghazi, killing 4 heroes. Barrack/Hillary leave the guys to die. NO PROBLEM. Blame it on a "fake video". OOPS Susan Rice, you take the fall this time.

 

- How about those "red lines" in Crimea and Syria.  Boy, oh boy - you really deterred Putin and ISIS.  Sorry Ukraine - no help from gutless Obama,

while ISIS praises Obama for a place to HQ their Caliphate until Trump OBLITERATES ISIS.

 

- Nice deal with Iran - given them billions and nuclear material at the same time!  What a pussy!  Thanks for keeping the world "safe" with

unlimited funding for the world's leading sponsor of terrorist.

 

- Piss off Israel, while kissing Iran's ass. Hey dumbshit - now Israel, Saudi Arabia and Egypt are all ALLIED AGAINST Iran because of Trump!

  Even the Saudis and Egyptians know Iran can not be trusted with Nukes. Nice Work Barrack!

 

That is QUITE a LEGACY Barrack - but don't worry - you did get a Noble Prize.

 

You guys are a joke - not only was Obama a EMPTY SUIT, but he was a Criminal too!

 

 

[Gregmal]

What are the odds that a liberal finds his guy to be less corrupt than the opposing party's guy? You guys sound like 8 year olds arguing about their favorite sports team..."My team is the best because they are my team"....Yea, real shocking Liberty, that you find the Democrat to be less corrupt than the Republican..... please. Who'd have thunk it? Shocking, ERICOPOLY doesnt think Obama did anything wrong...Shocking #metoo was a revolution until it hit Biden....then we bring back the presumption of innocence and stop believing all women...

[ERICOPOLY]

Obama legacy:

 

- The great American spying on his political opponents - only a corrupt politician like Obama would do this, KNOWING he would not

get caught because Hillary was destined to be President. OOPS Barack - Trump won - and now you are fucked unless you can impeach him!

 

- IRS used to silence conservative political action groups by use of widespread extensive audits. OOPS Lois Lerner - you take the fall for Barack!

 

- Disaster at Benghazi, killing 4 heroes. Barrack/Hillary leave the guys to die. NO PROBLEM. Blame it on a "fake video". OOPS Susan Rice, you take the fall this time.

 

- How about those "red lines" in Crimea and Syria.  Boy, oh boy - you really deterred Putin and ISIS.  Sorry Ukraine - no help from gutless Obama,

while ISIS praises Obama for a place to HQ their Caliphate until Trump OBLITERATES ISIS.

 

- Nice deal with Iran - given them billions and nuclear material at the same time!  What a pussy!  Thanks for keeping the world "safe" with

unlimited funding for the world's leading sponsor of terrorist.

 

- Piss off Israel, while kissing Iran's ass. Hey dumbshit - now Israel, Saudi Arabia and Egypt are all ALLIED AGAINST Iran because of Trump!

  Even the Saudis and Egyptians know Iran can not be trusted with Nukes. Nice Work Barrack!

 

That is QUITE a LEGACY Barrack - but don't worry - you did get a Noble Prize.

 

You guys are a joke - not only was Obama a EMPTY SUIT, but he was a Criminal too!

 

If there was corruption, there would be indictments and people going to jail.  Trump's IRS admitted that there had been wrongdoing (shocking).

 

Ryan Chittum of the Columbia Journalism Review reported in 2011 that a number of non-profit news organizations saw their applications delayed for years after being flagged for additional review.[48] In 2013, Chittum linked that scrutiny to the investigation, reporting that non-profit news organizations and Tea Party groups were placed in the same "Emerging Issues" category by IRS reviewers, which was a category flagged for additional questioning. He stated that "Rather than the Nixonian conspiracy that George Will and The Wall Street Journal editorial page so darkly warned about—with zero evidence—you have a routine bureaucratic procedure meant to bundle potentially problematic applicants together for further review."[39]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy

 

Obama asked for more IRS funding, but instead the IRS budget was cut.

[ERICOPOLY]

Shocking, ERICOPOLY doesnt think Obama did anything wrong...

 

Name it, what did he do wrong?  Tell us.

[vikx01]

Can you folks please move the politics-y comments to a thread in the politics section?