Coronavirus

[KCLarkin]

But why won't the WHO, Fauci or CDC tell people to simulate conditions of outside by having good ventilation?

 

Here are the CDC guidelines for ventilation

 

Consider improving the engineering controls using the building ventilation system. This may include some or all of the following activities:

 

Increase ventilation rates.

Ensure ventilation systems operate properly and provide acceptable indoor air quality for the current occupancy level for each space.

Increase outdoor air ventilation, using caution in highly polluted areas. With a lower occupancy level in the building, this increases the effective dilution ventilation per person.

Disable demand-controlled ventilation (DCV).

Further open minimum outdoor air dampers (as high as 100%) to reduce or eliminate recirculation. In mild weather, this will not affect thermal comfort or humidity. However, this may be difficult to do in cold or hot weather.

Improve central air filtration to the MERV-13 or the highest compatible with the filter rack, and seal edges of the filter to limit bypass.

Check filters to ensure they are within service life and appropriately installed.

Keep systems running longer hours, 24/7 if possible, to enhance air exchanges in the building space.

Note: Some of the above recommendations are based on the American Society of Heating, Refrigerating, and Air-Conditioning Engineers (ASHRAE) Guidance for Building Operations During the COVID-19 Pandemicexternal icon. Review these ASHRAE guidelines for further information on ventilation recommendations.

[Investor20]

But why won't the WHO, Fauci or CDC tell people to simulate conditions of outside by having good ventilation?

 

Here are the CDC guidelines for ventilation

 

Consider improving the engineering controls using the building ventilation system. This may include some or all of the following activities:

 

Increase ventilation rates.

Ensure ventilation systems operate properly and provide acceptable indoor air quality for the current occupancy level for each space.

Increase outdoor air ventilation, using caution in highly polluted areas. With a lower occupancy level in the building, this increases the effective dilution ventilation per person.

Disable demand-controlled ventilation (DCV).

Further open minimum outdoor air dampers (as high as 100%) to reduce or eliminate recirculation. In mild weather, this will not affect thermal comfort or humidity. However, this may be difficult to do in cold or hot weather.

Improve central air filtration to the MERV-13 or the highest compatible with the filter rack, and seal edges of the filter to limit bypass.

Check filters to ensure they are within service life and appropriately installed.

Keep systems running longer hours, 24/7 if possible, to enhance air exchanges in the building space.

Note: Some of the above recommendations are based on the American Society of Heating, Refrigerating, and Air-Conditioning Engineers (ASHRAE) Guidance for Building Operations During the COVID-19 Pandemicexternal icon. Review these ASHRAE guidelines for further information on ventilation recommendations.

 

You really try hard to support incompetent people.  "Consider", "recommendations"? No specific requirements for air flow per person.

 

Why dont you use the same language for other guidelines too, of requesting Consideration of their recommendations? Why doesn't Cuomo come on TV and request consideration of his recommendation for shelter in place orders?

 

Japanese are very clear with their 3Cs.

 

They have a law in place to require certain amount of fresh air per person in an office. That gives confidence to employees to go to office.

 

If protests are ok because they are outside, why not require employers to provide certain amount of ventilation and let people go to work?  Why not tell how much fresh air or air which has been cleaned of virus is required so that employers can open their offices?

 

Japanese had public transportation windows opened so that people can go to work.

 

And most importantly they communicated these measures to the public so that both employers and employees are clear what environmental conditions they need to follow and are safe.

 

Fauci and CDC could have told not only offices but shops how much air flow is required for shops to be opened.  May be shop owners could have brought an exhaust fan and opened the shops?

 

Where are those guidelines KCLarkin?  Please dont keep saying outside for protests are ok, but we dont want to require offices to have specific ventilation scientifically determined so that people can go to work with confidence.

 

[KCLarkin]

You guys really try hard to support incompetent people.  "Consider", "recommendations"? No specific requirements for air flow per person.

 

...

Where are those guidelines KCLarkin?  Please dont keep saying outside for protests are ok, but we dont want to require offices to have specific ventilation scientifically determined so that people can go to work with confidence.

 

I'm not defending their competence (IMO the Trump-appointed CDC director is horrific and Trump has neutered the CDC). Merely pointing out your lack of knowledge on this subject.

 

Pretty sure WHO, Fauci, and CDC don't have any jurisdiction to regulate air flow per person. Though they are convenient scapegoats for elected politicians.

 

State and Local Health Departments Retain the primary responsibility for health under the US Constitution

-- CDC

 

Anyway, I'm done posting on this thread. I've tried to convince my American friends on here to take this seriously. Your country has chosen another path. The best I can hope for now is that our border remains closed.

[Dalal.Holdings]

I have very clearly distinguished outdoor vs indoor gatherings as have many studies...In fact, indoor interaction in winter time is thought to contribute to seasonality of other viruses that spread via respiratory droplets such as influenza...

 

Bottom line is that lockdowns can work if everyone takes part and then you do phased reopening based on strict criteria. If you have some states that choose not to (thanks to federal lack of leadership and attempts to minimize the pandemic), then you will not do well. The trick is to squash the virus with lockdowns then reopen carefully, but some US states skipped lockdowns or just reopened bc they felt like it. That is why you are seeing vast difference for USA vs most developed countries.

 

My answer to reopening is what NY, NJ, CT are doing...reopening counties in phases based on objective criteria while testing a lot.

 

So now the USA has screwed up the pregame (Jan to Mar), the game itself (Mar to May), and the postgame (June onwards)...but not really surprising considering the managers we have.

 

I think some of what we are seeing in the US is a result of what I bolded above. What is unique vs the other countries in that graph is the span of climates the US has. We know that indoor activities increase spread and maybe the largest factor. NY,NJ,CT are indoors more in Feb, March, April, TX, AZ, FL much less so. Now during summer TX, AZ, FL have tropical climates and are seeing outbreaks like Central America. Cuomo said most cases were coming from inside houses in NYC. Most cases likely coming from inside houses/enclosed spaces now. 

 

As we all know this is multifactorial but I think comparing graphs of NY, NJ, CT, to UK, Italy makes as much sense as comparing TX, AZ, FL to central america now. In the fall this will likely flip again. Anyone able to find graphs comparing the above states/regions?

 

As much as we believe we can control and stop the virus we cannot control the factors above pushing populations indoors and outdoors.

 

Sweden puts a huge hole in this thesis. It is a very Northerly latitude country...

 

 

 

The key variable is obvious and most of the developed world has figured it out--smart lockdowns paired with reopening using objective criteria (and lots of testing).

 

For some reason, Americans just can't figure it out though...

 

"You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing after they have tried everything else.”

--WC

[SharperDingaan]

Masks are about reducing the ability of Covid-19 to spread, NOT preventing spread.

Covid-19 is a global pandemic - YOU, as one of the vast majority of people on the globe, are going to get it. Your hope is that you can either get vaccinated before contracting Covid-19, or that there is a ventilator available should you need one.

 

Freedoms are great, but they come with responsibilities. Don't act responsibly, you die.

Bar owners, restaurants, etc. COLLECTIVELY pushed for early re-opening, reduced social distancing, and no masks - so that they could avoid bankruptcy. Patron, and staff deaths, are just another cost of doing business. Easily replaced.

 

The real fear to Covid-19  is that 'wealth/status doesn't save you'.

Whether that be the size of your bank account, your 'class', or the colour of your skin. Sure, you can buy the best care, but once on the ventilator - the family has incentive to pull the plug. You are either spending the family inheritance, or splitting the inheritance too many ways .... better for all if you don't 'linger'.

 

SD

 

 

 

 

[Spekulatius]

Easy to say, but how do you increase circulation in your house? You can open up windows and negate your air conditioning? This is also missing the fact  that one spends a lot of time in the house (10h+) no matter what , if you count sleeping?

 

How do you get infected in your own home to begin with? When another family member is infected, then the rest of the household is screwed in most cases anyways and cross infection is almost inevitable, unless you follow A strict regime where the infected member is quarantined one room in and everyone wears  masks in the house upon contact. Then there are still issues with bathrooms and kitchen as common areas.

 

Now if you host parties with extended family members (who typically don’t live in your house) or friends then that’s a huge risk and they often has been found the root cause of infection clusters . But those things happen during all seasons, but when weather is nice it could be done outsides, reducing the risk somewhat. the better option would be not to host such events and keep them to same household members.

[LongHaul]

I saw a study awhile back that ~70% of flu transmission was prevented when masks were worn by a parent caring for a child with the flu.

It was not 100% wearing either, more intermittent. 

 

Some people are anti-maskers down here in Texas....

 

"You can always tell a Texan, but you can't tell him much."

 

As the fear level rises down here people are getting more serious about masks - even the right wing politicians.  So that it good!

 

 

[tng]

Easy to say, but how do you increase circulation in your house? You can open up windows and negate your air conditioning? This is also missing the fact  that one spends a lot of time in the house (10h+) no matter what , if you count sleeping?

 

How do you get infected in your own home to begin with? When another family member is infected, then the rest of the household is screwed in most cases anyways and cross infection is almost inevitable, unless you follow A strict regime where the infected member is quarantined one room in and everyone wears  masks in the house upon contact. Then there are still issues with bathrooms and kitchen as common areas.

 

Now if you host parties with extended family members (who typically don’t live in your house) or friends then that’s a huge risk and they often has been found the root cause of infection clusters . But those things happen during all seasons, but when weather is nice it could be done outsides, reducing the risk somewhat. the better option would be not to host such events and keep them to same household members.

 

With household infection, there probably isn't much you can do (you are probably infected by the time you realize that someone is sick). But in terms of office space or retail space, if "circulating air" is what is important, then air filters should also do a decent job because the good ones are rated to filter out particles as small as viruses.

 

I have a theory that stuff like dust (which is all over the place indoors) could be a potential transmission vector as people are breathing it into their nose and breathing it back out and dust or pollen can fly around the air because they are "fluffy" and have large surface area and low density. This could be one of the reasons why masks seems to work in reducing infections even though they are ineffective at filtering out virus-sized particles in a laboratory. Virus infections could actually come from the virus riding on larger particles that we breathe deep into our lungs and breathe back out. Outdoors, the dust is dissipated pretty quickly so we don't keep re-breathing the same particles.

[Spekulatius]

Easy to say, but how do you increase circulation in your house? You can open up windows and negate your air conditioning? This is also missing the fact  that one spends a lot of time in the house (10h+) no matter what , if you count sleeping?

 

How do you get infected in your own home to begin with? When another family member is infected, then the rest of the household is screwed in most cases anyways and cross infection is almost inevitable, unless you follow A strict regime where the infected member is quarantined one room in and everyone wears  masks in the house upon contact. Then there are still issues with bathrooms and kitchen as common areas.

 

Now if you host parties with extended family members (who typically don’t live in your house) or friends then that’s a huge risk and they often has been found the root cause of infection clusters . But those things happen during all seasons, but when weather is nice it could be done outsides, reducing the risk somewhat. the better option would be not to host such events and keep them to same household members.

 

With household infection, there probably isn't much you can do (you are probably infected by the time you realize that someone is sick). But in terms of office space or retail space, if "circulating air" is what is important, then air filters should also do a decent job because the good ones are rated to filter out particles as small as viruses.

 

I have a theory that stuff like dust (which is all over the place indoors) could be a potential transmission vector as people are breathing it into their nose and breathing it back out and dust or pollen can fly around the air because they are "fluffy" and have large surface area and low density. This could be one of the reasons why masks seems to work in reducing infections even though they are ineffective at filtering out virus-sized particles in a laboratory. Virus infections could actually come from the virus riding on larger particles that we breathe deep into our lungs and breathe back out. Outdoors, the dust is dissipated pretty quickly so we don't keep re-breathing the same particles.

 

Yeah, dust playing a role is possible, especially when the air is dry and electrostatic charges can play a huge role on how smaller particles like Viruses move in the air and attach themselves to other surfaces or particulars.

 

The air circulation advice is great, but how many people or even business are going to be able to upgrade or change their air circulation systems (heating/ cooling) in a way that actually makes sense. Filtration System tend to be upstream, so upgrading the filters really won’t do anything if other expel in the same room add to the Virus load in the air. Depending on the restive location, air flow can even be detrimental as it can spread the Virus all over the in air. The idea situation would be to have the air flow like in a clean room, from the ceiling down and leaving through exhaust vents near the wall base all over in the room, but I don’t know any office that has this.

 

I guess in some offices you could just vent though open windows , but that doesn’t work in high density multistory building where you can’t even open windows.

 

In any case, I think the recent wave in infection at least partly was kicked off by Memorial Day parties and get together. Its a weak hypothesis thigh, based on the timing of the wave and the fact why mostly younger people are getting infected now. If correct , things are probably going to get worse after the 4th of July. I guess We will just have to see.

[cubsfan]

Here is what I hope everyone is starting to understand (and I'm seeing some signs, sort of). This situation is so complex with a lot of uncertainties, not a single stat, or a chart can be used to fully explain what's going on. Yet, if you have a political lense, every data point can be interpreted to support your narrative. It's just completely unproductive but this seems to be the norm in many media outlets.

 

Here is an attempt to quantify the "Costs of the Lockdown":

 

https://www.hoover.org/research/doctor-scott-atlas-and-efficacy-lockdowns-social-distancing-and-closings

 

The Doctor Is In: Scott Atlas and the Efficacy of Lockdowns, Social Distancing, and Closings:

 

Dr. Scott Atlas is the Robert Wesson Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution, an accomplished physician, and a scholar of public health. For several weeks, Dr. Atlas has been making the case in print and in other media that we as a society have overreacted in imposing draconian restrictions on movement, gatherings, schools, sports, and other activities. He is not a COVID-19 denier—he believes the virus is a real threat and should be managed as such. But, as Dr. Atlas argues, there are some age groups and activities that are subject to very low risk. The one-size-fits-all approach we are currently using is overly authoritarian, inefficient, and not based in science. Dr. Atlas’s prescription includes more protection for people in nursing homes, two weeks of strict self-isolation for those with mild symptoms, and most importantly, the opening of all K–12 schools. The latter recommendation is vital for restarting and maintaining the economy so that parents are not housebound trying to work and educate their children. Dr. Atlas is also adamant that an economic shutdown, and all of the attendant issues that go along with it, is a terrible solution—the cure is worse than the disease. Finally, Dr. Atlas reveals some steps he’s taken in his own life to try to get things back to normal.

[rb]

Oh great we have a radiologist from a conservative think tank telling us about viruses and pandemics. What's next? A dermatologist? A podiatrist maybe?

[cubsfan]

Oh great we have a radiologist from a conservative think tank telling us about viruses and pandemics. What's next? A dermatologist? A podiatrist maybe?

 

 

 

I'm sure you blew past the part that notes Dr Atlas is a scholar in public health.

 

But then again, you're the guy that thinks Martin Luther King is really Al Sharpton. So I shouldn't be surprised.

[Dalal.Holdings]

Oh great we have a radiologist from a conservative think tank telling us about viruses and pandemics. What's next? A dermatologist? A podiatrist maybe?

 

This is how they roll. Just look at the "scientists" they find that agree with them on climate change (while dismissing what is a consensus on the opposing side). Astounding level of delusion and/or intentional effort to mislead.

 

Amusing that he says "lockdowns are too expensive". Now watch most of Europe move on from this and leave the U.S. in the dust while we struggle with our "isolate elderly" strategy and economy continues to take a long term beating even without lockdowns...

 

If we follow the lead of folks like this, it will lead us to our doom.

[cubsfan]

Oh great we have a radiologist from a conservative think tank telling us about viruses and pandemics. What's next? A dermatologist? A podiatrist maybe?

 

This is how they roll. Just look at the "scientists" they find that agree with them on climate change (while dismissing what is a consensus on the opposing side). Astounding level of delusion and/or intentional effort to mislead.

 

Amusing that he says "lockdowns are too expensive". Now watch most of Europe move on from this and leave the U.S. in the dust while we struggle with our "isolate elderly" strategy and economy continues to take a long term beating even without lockdowns...

 

If we follow the lead of folks like this, it will lead us to our doom.

 

Tell me about it - kind of like your own "hero worship" of murderous Mayor De Blasio and Gov Cuomo - NOW there are two real leaders that handled this well!

[Dalal.Holdings]

Oh great we have a radiologist from a conservative think tank telling us about viruses and pandemics. What's next? A dermatologist? A podiatrist maybe?

 

This is how they roll. Just look at the "scientists" they find that agree with them on climate change (while dismissing what is a consensus on the opposing side). Astounding level of delusion and/or intentional effort to mislead.

 

Amusing that he says "lockdowns are too expensive". Now watch most of Europe move on from this and leave the U.S. in the dust while we struggle with our "isolate elderly" strategy and economy continues to take a long term beating even without lockdowns...

 

If we follow the lead of folks like this, it will lead us to our doom.

 

Tell me about it - kind of like your own "hero worship" of Mayor De Blasio and Gov Cuomo - NOW there are two real leaders that handled this well!

 

Yep they could have done better, but I think Cuomo did well considering the hand he was dealt, though some mistakes were made with a never before seen Pandemic. He's doing a good job with the reopenings though. De Blasio is a straight up clown though and I've said that from day one.

 

Now I challenge you to say one critical thing about your God-Emperor Trump & this Pandemic...[crickets]

[cubsfan]

Oh great we have a radiologist from a conservative think tank telling us about viruses and pandemics. What's next? A dermatologist? A podiatrist maybe?

 

This is how they roll. Just look at the "scientists" they find that agree with them on climate change (while dismissing what is a consensus on the opposing side). Astounding level of delusion and/or intentional effort to mislead.

 

Amusing that he says "lockdowns are too expensive". Now watch most of Europe move on from this and leave the U.S. in the dust while we struggle with our "isolate elderly" strategy and economy continues to take a long term beating even without lockdowns...

 

If we follow the lead of folks like this, it will lead us to our doom.

 

Tell me about it - kind of like your own "hero worship" of Mayor De Blasio and Gov Cuomo - NOW there are two real leaders that handled this well!

 

Yep they could have done better, but I think Cuomo did well considering the hand he was dealt, though some mistakes were made with a never before seen Pandemic. He's doing a good job with the reopenings though. De Blasio is a clown though and I've said that from day one.

 

Now I challenge you to say one critical thing about your God-Emperor Trump & this Pandemic...[crickets]

 

Yeah, good thing Cuomo stuffed all those poor sick people into those nursing homes, causing the most  deaths in the country.  Great job Cuomo!

[Spekulatius]

Oh great we have a radiologist from a conservative think tank telling us about viruses and pandemics. What's next? A dermatologist? A podiatrist maybe?

 

This is how they roll. Just look at the "scientists" they find that agree with them on climate change (while dismissing what is a consensus on the opposing side). Astounding level of delusion and/or intentional effort to mislead.

 

Amusing that he says "lockdowns are too expensive". Now watch most of Europe move on from this and leave the U.S. in the dust while we struggle with our "isolate elderly" strategy and economy continues to take a long term beating even without lockdowns...

 

If we follow the lead of folks like this, it will lead us to our doom.

 

It’s not really a trade off. If Texas and Florida can’t get the Virus under control and the hospital run full, schools and Disneyland won’t open in fall. A crappy economy will be all but guaranteed.

[Dalal.Holdings]

Oh great we have a radiologist from a conservative think tank telling us about viruses and pandemics. What's next? A dermatologist? A podiatrist maybe?

 

This is how they roll. Just look at the "scientists" they find that agree with them on climate change (while dismissing what is a consensus on the opposing side). Astounding level of delusion and/or intentional effort to mislead.

 

Amusing that he says "lockdowns are too expensive". Now watch most of Europe move on from this and leave the U.S. in the dust while we struggle with our "isolate elderly" strategy and economy continues to take a long term beating even without lockdowns...

 

If we follow the lead of folks like this, it will lead us to our doom.

 

Tell me about it - kind of like your own "hero worship" of Mayor De Blasio and Gov Cuomo - NOW there are two real leaders that handled this well!

 

Yep they could have done better, but I think Cuomo did well considering the hand he was dealt, though some mistakes were made with a never before seen Pandemic. He's doing a good job with the reopenings though. De Blasio is a clown though and I've said that from day one.

 

Now I challenge you to say one critical thing about your God-Emperor Trump & this Pandemic...[crickets]

 

Yeah, good thing Cuomo stuffed all those poor sick people into those nursing homes, causing the most  deaths in the country.  Great job Cuomo!

 

Wow that hard for you to say one bad thing about Trump, huh? Sad!

 

The Trump Brigade from the Politics section with their sharp, unbiased analysis as always! Come to rescue their own whenever they sense danger coming in the way of their savior...

 

Ya’ll are making CoBF Great Again just like you made the country! A paradise of prosperity!

[Investor20]

Easy to say, but how do you increase circulation in your house? You can open up windows and negate your air conditioning? This is also missing the fact  that one spends a lot of time in the house (10h+) no matter what , if you count sleeping?

 

How do you get infected in your own home to begin with? When another family member is infected, then the rest of the household is screwed in most cases anyways and cross infection is almost inevitable, unless you follow A strict regime where the infected member is quarantined one room in and everyone wears  masks in the house upon contact. Then there are still issues with bathrooms and kitchen as common areas.

 

Now if you host parties with extended family members (who typically don’t live in your house) or friends then that’s a huge risk and they often has been found the root cause of infection clusters . But those things happen during all seasons, but when weather is nice it could be done outsides, reducing the risk somewhat. the better option would be not to host such events and keep them to same household members.

 

With household infection, there probably isn't much you can do (you are probably infected by the time you realize that someone is sick). But in terms of office space or retail space, if "circulating air" is what is important, then air filters should also do a decent job because the good ones are rated to filter out particles as small as viruses.

 

I have a theory that stuff like dust (which is all over the place indoors) could be a potential transmission vector as people are breathing it into their nose and breathing it back out and dust or pollen can fly around the air because they are "fluffy" and have large surface area and low density. This could be one of the reasons why masks seems to work in reducing infections even though they are ineffective at filtering out virus-sized particles in a laboratory. Virus infections could actually come from the virus riding on larger particles that we breathe deep into our lungs and breathe back out. Outdoors, the dust is dissipated pretty quickly so we don't keep re-breathing the same particles.

 

Yeah, dust playing a role is possible, especially when the air is dry and electrostatic charges can play a huge role on how smaller particles like Viruses move in the air and attach themselves to other surfaces or particulars.

 

The air circulation advice is great, but how many people or even business are going to be able to upgrade or change their air circulation systems (heating/ cooling) in a way that actually makes sense. Filtration System tend to be upstream, so upgrading the filters really won’t do anything if other expel in the same room add to the Virus load in the air. Depending on the restive location, air flow can even be detrimental as it can spread the Virus all over the in air. The idea situation would be to have the air flow like in a clean room, from the ceiling down and leaving through exhaust vents near the wall base all over in the room, but I don’t know any office that has this.

 

I guess in some offices you could just vent though open windows , but that doesn’t work in high density multistory building where you can’t even open windows.

 

In any case, I think the recent wave in infection at least partly was kicked off by Memorial Day parties and get together. Its a weak hypothesis thigh, based on the timing of the wave and the fact why mostly younger people are getting infected now. If correct , things are probably going to get worse after the 4th of July. I guess We will just have to see.

 

First of all Japanese all ready have a law in place enforcing these requirements.  If its so expensive and difficult, how did they get it running in few months?

 

There is already research done with UV light and other systems.  It is offered as a plumbing service even before Covid.

 

The Church Trump gave used some ionization method that is installed inside the air duct.  As per their website it costs 3000$.  It is weird all media could think is criticize this because they used a Coronavirus surrogate for safety reasons to test the system instead of Covid-19.

 

UV light had been used for long for TB control.  Both TB and Coronavirus are sensitive to UV light.

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090316201505.htm

UV Light Cuts Spread Of Tuberculosis

 

Introducing UVC lights could be a relatively low-cost measure, say the researchers. Currently, a typical UVC ceiling light costs around US$350 and replacement bulbs cost from US$25. The researchers are now working to develop more affordable US$100 units.

 

https://plumblineservices.com/help-guides/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-a-uv-light-for-my-hvac-system

How Much Does It Cost to Install a UV Light for My HVAC System?

 

the cost to install a UV light for an HVAC system can cost anywhere from $450 to $700+ in the Denver area.

 

 

Depending only on cloth masks is not a great idea IMO.  I posted one article by CIDRAP from Univ. of Minnesota saying no data exists to back cloth masks.  Below is another article

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1422

Covid-19: What is the evidence for cloth masks?

 

But are they effective?

 

Very little good quality research exists on the use of cloth masks, especially in non-medical settings. One randomised controlled clinical trial of cloth masks, published in BMJ Open in 2015, compared their effectiveness with that of medical masks worn by hospital healthcare workers.2 The study, involving the industry partner 3M (which makes medical masks), reported that healthcare workers “should not use cloth masks as protection against respiratory infection. Cloth masks resulted in significantly higher rates of infection than medical masks, and also performed worse than the control arm.”

 

 

This is why I am saying CDC & Fauci are incompetent.  Japanese did not do ground breaking research.  They used already existing plumbing techniques that were available before Covid came up.

 

 

 

 

 

[cubsfan]

Oh great we have a radiologist from a conservative think tank telling us about viruses and pandemics. What's next? A dermatologist? A podiatrist maybe?

 

This is how they roll. Just look at the "scientists" they find that agree with them on climate change (while dismissing what is a consensus on the opposing side). Astounding level of delusion and/or intentional effort to mislead.

 

Amusing that he says "lockdowns are too expensive". Now watch most of Europe move on from this and leave the U.S. in the dust while we struggle with our "isolate elderly" strategy and economy continues to take a long term beating even without lockdowns...

 

If we follow the lead of folks like this, it will lead us to our doom.

 

Tell me about it - kind of like your own "hero worship" of Mayor De Blasio and Gov Cuomo - NOW there are two real leaders that handled this well!

 

Yep they could have done better, but I think Cuomo did well considering the hand he was dealt, though some mistakes were made with a never before seen Pandemic. He's doing a good job with the reopenings though. De Blasio is a clown though and I've said that from day one.

 

Now I challenge you to say one critical thing about your God-Emperor Trump & this Pandemic...[crickets]

 

Yeah, good thing Cuomo stuffed all those poor sick people into those nursing homes, causing the most  deaths in the country.  Great job Cuomo!

 

Wow that hard for you to say one bad thing about Trump, huh? Sad!

 

The Trump Brigade from the Politics section with their sharp, unbiased analysis as always! Come to rescue their own whenever they sense danger coming in the way of their savior...

 

Ya’ll are making CoBF Great Again just like you made the country! A paradise of prosperity!

 

Good thing your hero Cuomo wasn't President - think of the death toll with him running the country. You just never learn!

[Dalal.Holdings]

Oh great we have a radiologist from a conservative think tank telling us about viruses and pandemics. What's next? A dermatologist? A podiatrist maybe?

 

This is how they roll. Just look at the "scientists" they find that agree with them on climate change (while dismissing what is a consensus on the opposing side). Astounding level of delusion and/or intentional effort to mislead.

 

Amusing that he says "lockdowns are too expensive". Now watch most of Europe move on from this and leave the U.S. in the dust while we struggle with our "isolate elderly" strategy and economy continues to take a long term beating even without lockdowns...

 

If we follow the lead of folks like this, it will lead us to our doom.

 

Tell me about it - kind of like your own "hero worship" of Mayor De Blasio and Gov Cuomo - NOW there are two real leaders that handled this well!

 

Yep they could have done better, but I think Cuomo did well considering the hand he was dealt, though some mistakes were made with a never before seen Pandemic. He's doing a good job with the reopenings though. De Blasio is a clown though and I've said that from day one.

 

Now I challenge you to say one critical thing about your God-Emperor Trump & this Pandemic...[crickets]

 

Yeah, good thing Cuomo stuffed all those poor sick people into those nursing homes, causing the most  deaths in the country.  Great job Cuomo!

 

Wow that hard for you to say one bad thing about Trump, huh? Sad!

 

The Trump Brigade from the Politics section with their sharp, unbiased analysis as always! Come to rescue their own whenever they sense danger coming in the way of their savior...

 

Ya’ll are making CoBF Great Again just like you made the country! A paradise of prosperity!

 

Good thing your hero Cuomo wasn't President - think of the death toll with him running the country. You just never learn!

 

Why you keep deflecting from Trump? Can’t say his name anymore? You gonna blame the southern states on your scapegoat Cuomo ? Sad how you delude yourself! Still waiting for your assessment of your Daddy Trump.

[cwericb]

Well Cubs, why don't you tell us what a great job Trump and Pence are doing handling the pandemic. You know the guy who said it would just disappear. Or what a great job Florida, Arizona and Texas are doing. 

 

[Dalal.Holdings]

Well Cubs, why don't you tell us what a great job Trump and Pence are doing handling the pandemic. You know the guy who said it would just disappear. Or what a great job Florida, Arizona and Texas are doing.

 

Can’t speak ill of his Daddy!

[cubsfan]

Well Cubs, why don't you tell us what a great job Trump and Pence are doing handling the pandemic. You know the guy who said it would just disappear. Or what a great job Florida, Arizona and Texas are doing.

 

 

I concede. You guys are right.

 

Cuomo for President. With him running the country, by now, all the nursing homes would be empty - because all the residents would be dead!

 

Have it your way.

[cwericb]

Careful Cubs, you know where Jim Jones’ cult ended up. Your cult leader is doing the same with Covid-19.