Coronavirus

[Liberty]

How far along would science be if we disregarded opinions of those on certain subjects because they hold odd views in other unrelated areas?

 

The answer is not very far.

 

Science is based on falsifiable hypotheses, evidence, and a certain methodology that allows to determine the strength of that evidence; all things that the demon sperm, alien DNA kook hasn't shown. She's made some claims, but that's not science.

 

Judging people's credibility is another thing entirely, but a useful skill in life, which I suggest you try to develop.

[rb]

I am not sure why there continues to be so much debate about pretty much anything Trump says. He has demonstrated over and over again to be an unabashed liar. When he talks why would anyone take anything he has to say seriously?

 

The question is does HCQ+Zinc+Azithromycin when given very early on onset of symptoms works for Covid or Not?

 

Can you show me an RCT done to answer this question?  This is what that doctor was talking about.  The only way to answer if she is correct or not is by doing a study or accept her experience as correct. 

 

The only two studies I know of this combination that I posted little bit earlier show encouraging results.

 

Can you show me an RCT for Remedisivir that improves mortality?

 

HCQ is almost free.  Remedisivir is very expensive and takes IV in hospital.

They're not gonna do an RCT for everything that some right wing guy comes up with.

 

There have been a lot of trials on HCQ. The US FDA determined it doesn't work. The UK CDC determined it doesn't work, the French CDC determined it doesn't work, the German CDC determined it doesn't work, the EU CDC determined it doesn't work.

 

The only people still hawking HCQ are right wingers in US and Brazil. Also known as the bunch that fucked up the pandemic response.

[Liberty]

I am not sure why there continues to be so much debate about pretty much anything Trump says. He has demonstrated over and over again to be an unabashed liar. When he talks why would anyone take anything he has to say seriously?

 

The question is does HCQ+Zinc+Azithromycin when given very early on onset of symptoms works for Covid or Not?

 

Can you show me an RCT done to answer this question?  This is what that doctor was talking about.  The only way to answer if she is correct or not is by doing a study or accept her experience as correct. 

 

The only two studies I know of this combination that I posted little bit earlier show encouraging results.

 

Can you show me an RCT for Remedisivir that improves mortality?

 

HCQ is almost free.  Remedisivir is very expensive and takes IV in hospital.

They're not gonna do an RCT for everything that some right wing guy comes up with.

 

There have been a lot of trials on HCQ. The US FDA determined it doesn't work. The UK CDC determined it doesn't work, the French CDC determined it doesn't work, the German CDC determined it doesn't work, the EU CDC determined it doesn't work.

 

The only people still hawking HCQ are right wingers in US and Brazil. Also known as the bunch that fucked up the pandemic response.

 

It's always the 'No true scotsman' argument with these guys. It's like the young earth creationist saying that there are gaps in the fossil record, and then you find even more fossils, so they say there are now even more gaps in between these new fossils..

 

No amount of evidence is enough to lower their priors, because there's always something you haven't tested or done in the right way according to them...

[rb]

It's ironic...the same individuals bashing this "demon sperm doctor" for her views are the same ones who say men can be women and men can give birth and have periods...

 

Wow that's quite the non-sequitur. It's not even wrong, it's just, nothing at all.

 

Do you often just plug something you have on the mind into an unrelated discussion like that? Might want to have that checked out.

 

Pretty sure everyone who's not bonkers doesn't think that demon sperm infecting you in your sleep is crazy and that this "doctor" doesn't sound very sane and qualified to give medical advice on critical drug research.

 

"Immanuel, a pediatrician and a religious minister, has a history of making bizarre claims about medical topics and other issues. She has often claimed that gynecological problems like cysts and endometriosis are in fact caused by people having sex in their dreams with demons and witches.

 

She alleges alien DNA is currently used in medical treatments, and that scientists are cooking up a vaccine to prevent people from being religious."

 

If you don't think it's INSANE for the president of the US to be simultaneously promoting this "doctor" while attacking Fauci, you probably have had too much love with demons in your dreams..

 

As far as HCQ goes (and I don't know much) is there any reason to prevent individuals from taking it? I don't understand the divisiveness outside of the politics. This whole thing reminds me of the essential oil and cbd oil crowds but at a national level.

 

Well, if it's not effective, and can have dangerous side effects for some people, why would people take it? And claiming something is a cure for a disease for which there is currently no cure is EXTREMELY dangerous, as it'll modify people's behavior and perception of risk and more people will get sick and die and infect others than otherwise, causing more suffering and economic damage than would be the case if people were, y'know, more rational about it.

 

Otherwise, why not go to the pharmacy and just pick stuff at random and take it and tell others to take it too, while at it? It's all FDA-approved, right? Is that the standard?

 

I think both are equally bonkers....just pointing out the hypocrisy from certain camps. Your insertion of her "demon sperm opinion" has no relation to her opinion on HCQ just saying...What I said is not a non-sequitur, but discrediting her views on HCQ because of her other beliefs is.. 

 

Also, regardless of her views if she has been granted an MD license from the mighty AMA why wouldn't she be able to practice medicine or give her opinion?

 

I'm not advocating for HCQ...I have no opinion on whether it works or not.

 

Both may or may not be bonkers, but they have nothing to do with each other. That's what non-sequitur means.

 

As for a license, I'm sure you know that there are bad doctors, lawyers, pilots, plumbers, etc. You judge people on their words and actions, not on pieces of papers, and he words are those of an insane person.

 

How far along would science be if we disregarded opinions of those on certain subjects because they hold odd views in other unrelated areas?

 

The answer is not very far.

This is such bullshit. If you were to have surgery and you hear your would be surgeon talk about demon sperm, alien dna, etc in a medical setting would you let that person cut you? Hell in my case I wouldn't even have that as my family doctor.

 

Believing that there is life in the universe outside the planet Earth is one thing. Believing that alien DNA is used in medical treatments ON planet Earth is a very, very different thing.

 

Different strokes for different folks i guess. 

[Gregmal]

So if it doesnt work, and you dont see a valid argument for it, why continue to get so worked up over it? No one is forcing it down your throat...Conversely, if someone else seems to think it has a benefit, they should be able to do as they wish. Same way some weirdos have dream catchers or other trinkets they ascribe some sort of value to. Are you really this intolerant of everyone else's opinions and beliefs? Stop "pretending" to be concerned about the "health" of people you clearly possess such disdain for.

 

We all know you guys love blabbering on about it simply because you feel every time you do, that you're "really showing Donald!".... let it go.

[rb]

So if it doesnt work, and you dont see a valid argument for it, why continue to get so worked up over it? No one is forcing it down your throat...Conversely, if someone else seems to think it has a benefit, they should be able to do as they wish. Same way some weirdos have dream catchers or other trinkets they ascribe some sort of value to. Are you really this intolerant of everyone else's opinions and beliefs? Stop "pretending" to be concerned about the "health" of people you clearly possess such disdain for.

 

We all know you guys love blabbering on about it simply because you feel every time you do, that you're "really showing Donald!".... let it go.

That's not really how we're supposed to do medicine and drugs. There's a reason why we bother with all those pesky drug trials and have prescriptions and stuff.

 

These are not sugar pills. Drugs also have side effects and can be dangerous. I have yet to hear of a dream catcher side effect. That's why promoting wrong drugs is dangerous and irresponsible. People will seek those drugs. Doctors are supposed to be the gatekeepers but in many cases they just fold. That's how people were able to get huge amounts of oxy and kill themselves.

 

Oh right and just cause the promotion comes from a buffoon doesn't make it any less harmless. After the disinfect yourself with bleach press conference there was a remarkable number of people that actually drank bleach. BLEACH!

 

 

[Jurgis]

Oh right and just cause the promotion comes from a buffoon doesn't make it any less harmless. After the disinfect yourself with bleach press conference there was a remarkable number of people that actually drank bleach. BLEACH!

 

But... electrolytes!

[rb]

So it looks like Louis Gohmert, big anti-masker and all around douchebag, tested positive for COVID. His response has been predictable: wonders whether he got COVID from the few times he actually wore a mask, plans to treat himself with HCQ.

 

You've got to wonder what would it take for these guys to get serious about it. Do some of them have to die for the message to ring home or not even then?

 

In other news Herman Cain (anti-mask guy) died today from COVID. Though they probably wouldn't consider him one of "them". 

[Investor20]

I am not sure why there continues to be so much debate about pretty much anything Trump says. He has demonstrated over and over again to be an unabashed liar. When he talks why would anyone take anything he has to say seriously?

 

The question is does HCQ+Zinc+Azithromycin when given very early on onset of symptoms works for Covid or Not?

 

Can you show me an RCT done to answer this question?  This is what that doctor was talking about.  The only way to answer if she is correct or not is by doing a study or accept her experience as correct. 

 

The only two studies I know of this combination that I posted little bit earlier show encouraging results.

 

Can you show me an RCT for Remedisivir that improves mortality?

 

HCQ is almost free.  Remedisivir is very expensive and takes IV in hospital.

They're not gonna do an RCT for everything that some right wing guy comes up with.

There have been a lot of trials on HCQ. The US FDA determined it doesn't work. The UK CDC determined it doesn't work, the French CDC determined it doesn't work, the German CDC determined it doesn't work, the EU CDC determined it doesn't work.

 

The only people still hawking HCQ are right wingers in US and Brazil. Also known as the bunch that fucked up the pandemic response.

 

From the beginning, the theory of many doctors has been HCQ opens a channel and allows Zinc to enter the cell which acts as antiviral.

 

RCT for something two retrospective studies (Zelenko & NYU Grossman) showed very encouraging data. NYU grossman showed 44% reduction in deaths with 20$ medicine.

 

Yes RCT has been done with Remedesivir.  Can you show me the data to show Remedisivir reduces mortality in a RCT?

 

You are the guys who talk about medicine costs.  Here we have a 20$ medicine that can be administered at home vs Remedisivr which is expensive and can be only be administered in a hospital.

 

Below examples of two other doctors saying HCQ + Zinc works. 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/la-doctor-seeing-success-with-hydroxychloroquine-to-treat-covid-19/ar-BB12cfG5

LA doctor seeing success with hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19

 

He said he has found it only works if combined with zinc. The drug, he said, opens a channel for the zinc to enter the cell and block virus replication.

 

https://kyma.com/news/2020/07/24/local-doctor-sees-success-treating-covid-19-patients-with-hcq-cocktail/

"Hydroxychloroquine along with zinc and either azithromycin or doxycycline and it's based upon now many studies from colleagues around the world. It's shown to be an effective treatment and that’s what we need," said Dr. George Fareed, physician.

 

Dr. George Fareed is Harvard educated and worked at Harvard Medical School as a associate professor. 

 

There are many more examples.  To disregard two retrospective studies, one of which showed 44% reduction in mortality, multiple doctors who are treating hundreds of patients and studying without Zinc, which these doctors say is actual active ingredient is mind bogglingly stupid.

[Castanza]

So if it doesnt work, and you dont see a valid argument for it, why continue to get so worked up over it? No one is forcing it down your throat...Conversely, if someone else seems to think it has a benefit, they should be able to do as they wish. Same way some weirdos have dream catchers or other trinkets they ascribe some sort of value to. Are you really this intolerant of everyone else's opinions and beliefs? Stop "pretending" to be concerned about the "health" of people you clearly possess such disdain for.

 

We all know you guys love blabbering on about it simply because you feel every time you do, that you're "really showing Donald!".... let it go.

 

LOL exactly....plus as soon as some vaccine comes out Liberty will be the first one on here with thousands of twitter links and derogatory comments about how people should be forced to take it and those who don't are science deniers and Trump supporters.

[Castanza]

So if it doesnt work, and you dont see a valid argument for it, why continue to get so worked up over it? No one is forcing it down your throat...Conversely, if someone else seems to think it has a benefit, they should be able to do as they wish. Same way some weirdos have dream catchers or other trinkets they ascribe some sort of value to. Are you really this intolerant of everyone else's opinions and beliefs? Stop "pretending" to be concerned about the "health" of people you clearly possess such disdain for.

 

We all know you guys love blabbering on about it simply because you feel every time you do, that you're "really showing Donald!".... let it go.

That's not really how we're supposed to do medicine and drugs. There's a reason why we bother with all those pesky drug trials and have prescriptions and stuff.

 

These are not sugar pills. Drugs also have side effects and can be dangerous. I have yet to hear of a dream catcher side effect. That's why promoting wrong drugs is dangerous and irresponsible. People will seek those drugs. Doctors are supposed to be the gatekeepers but in many cases they just fold. That's how people were able to get huge amounts of oxy and kill themselves.

 

Oh right and just cause the promotion comes from a buffoon doesn't make it any less harmless. After the disinfect yourself with bleach press conference there was a remarkable number of people that actually drank bleach. BLEACH!

 

I must have missed the part of the conference where the lady doctor told everyone Covid was some alien sperm related thing. Did the other doctors who spoke subscribe to her strange views as well?

 

There are plenty of quacks out there both known and unknown. I'd suspect if all of the quacks were known, there would be an awful shortage of "reliable" doctors, dentists, and scientists.

 

 

[Gregmal]

So if it doesnt work, and you dont see a valid argument for it, why continue to get so worked up over it? No one is forcing it down your throat...Conversely, if someone else seems to think it has a benefit, they should be able to do as they wish. Same way some weirdos have dream catchers or other trinkets they ascribe some sort of value to. Are you really this intolerant of everyone else's opinions and beliefs? Stop "pretending" to be concerned about the "health" of people you clearly possess such disdain for.

 

We all know you guys love blabbering on about it simply because you feel every time you do, that you're "really showing Donald!".... let it go.

That's not really how we're supposed to do medicine and drugs. There's a reason why we bother with all those pesky drug trials and have prescriptions and stuff.

 

These are not sugar pills. Drugs also have side effects and can be dangerous. I have yet to hear of a dream catcher side effect. That's why promoting wrong drugs is dangerous and irresponsible. People will seek those drugs. Doctors are supposed to be the gatekeepers but in many cases they just fold. That's how people were able to get huge amounts of oxy and kill themselves.

 

Oh right and just cause the promotion comes from a buffoon doesn't make it any less harmless. After the disinfect yourself with bleach press conference there was a remarkable number of people that actually drank bleach. BLEACH!

 

And there is a process. You need a prescription. But HCQ is still not a banned substance. So there's that.

[Investor20]

So if it doesnt work, and you dont see a valid argument for it, why continue to get so worked up over it? No one is forcing it down your throat...Conversely, if someone else seems to think it has a benefit, they should be able to do as they wish. Same way some weirdos have dream catchers or other trinkets they ascribe some sort of value to. Are you really this intolerant of everyone else's opinions and beliefs? Stop "pretending" to be concerned about the "health" of people you clearly possess such disdain for.

 

We all know you guys love blabbering on about it simply because you feel every time you do, that you're "really showing Donald!".... let it go.

That's not really how we're supposed to do medicine and drugs. There's a reason why we bother with all those pesky drug trials and have prescriptions and stuff.

 

These are not sugar pills. Drugs also have side effects and can be dangerous. I have yet to hear of a dream catcher side effect. That's why promoting wrong drugs is dangerous and irresponsible. People will seek those drugs. Doctors are supposed to be the gatekeepers but in many cases they just fold. That's how people were able to get huge amounts of oxy and kill themselves.

 

Oh right and just cause the promotion comes from a buffoon doesn't make it any less harmless. After the disinfect yourself with bleach press conference there was a remarkable number of people that actually drank bleach. BLEACH!

 

And there is a process. You need a prescription. But HCQ is still not a banned substance. So there's that.

 

Many prescriptions are off label.  And surgeries etc are not FDA approved.  The doctors practice them.

 

So for example for my mother we went to hospitals.  The doctors would say they did a particular type of surgery and had so many patients and certain percent success. Different doctors had different protocols and approaches. Thats how a patient decides, by talking to the doctors.

 

This notion that if FDA doesnt approve, doctors cannot do it is nonsense.

 

https://www.drugwatch.com/health/off-label-drug-use/

"Consequently, it’s legal and common for doctors to prescribe drugs for uses other than what is listed on the label, commonly known as off-label. One fifth of all prescriptions are off-label."

[rb]

So if it doesnt work, and you dont see a valid argument for it, why continue to get so worked up over it? No one is forcing it down your throat...Conversely, if someone else seems to think it has a benefit, they should be able to do as they wish. Same way some weirdos have dream catchers or other trinkets they ascribe some sort of value to. Are you really this intolerant of everyone else's opinions and beliefs? Stop "pretending" to be concerned about the "health" of people you clearly possess such disdain for.

 

We all know you guys love blabbering on about it simply because you feel every time you do, that you're "really showing Donald!".... let it go.

That's not really how we're supposed to do medicine and drugs. There's a reason why we bother with all those pesky drug trials and have prescriptions and stuff.

 

These are not sugar pills. Drugs also have side effects and can be dangerous. I have yet to hear of a dream catcher side effect. That's why promoting wrong drugs is dangerous and irresponsible. People will seek those drugs. Doctors are supposed to be the gatekeepers but in many cases they just fold. That's how people were able to get huge amounts of oxy and kill themselves.

 

Oh right and just cause the promotion comes from a buffoon doesn't make it any less harmless. After the disinfect yourself with bleach press conference there was a remarkable number of people that actually drank bleach. BLEACH!

 

I must have missed the part of the conference where the lady doctor told everyone Covid was some alien sperm related thing. Did the other doctors who spoke subscribe to her strange views as well?

 

There are plenty of quacks out there both known and unknown. I'd suspect if all of the quacks were known, there would be an awful shortage of "reliable" doctors, dentists, and scientists.

Yea everything i've said just went woosh.

 

Why does it have to be covid related? As a doctor you relate any medical condition/treatment to alien DNA and I'm outta there. See previous comments about credibility.

 

I guarantee you that if I start talking seriously about demon sperm my clients will start to pull their money from me. Who could blame them? And investment management is not even about life and death.

[Castanza]

So if it doesnt work, and you dont see a valid argument for it, why continue to get so worked up over it? No one is forcing it down your throat...Conversely, if someone else seems to think it has a benefit, they should be able to do as they wish. Same way some weirdos have dream catchers or other trinkets they ascribe some sort of value to. Are you really this intolerant of everyone else's opinions and beliefs? Stop "pretending" to be concerned about the "health" of people you clearly possess such disdain for.

 

We all know you guys love blabbering on about it simply because you feel every time you do, that you're "really showing Donald!".... let it go.

That's not really how we're supposed to do medicine and drugs. There's a reason why we bother with all those pesky drug trials and have prescriptions and stuff.

 

These are not sugar pills. Drugs also have side effects and can be dangerous. I have yet to hear of a dream catcher side effect. That's why promoting wrong drugs is dangerous and irresponsible. People will seek those drugs. Doctors are supposed to be the gatekeepers but in many cases they just fold. That's how people were able to get huge amounts of oxy and kill themselves.

 

Oh right and just cause the promotion comes from a buffoon doesn't make it any less harmless. After the disinfect yourself with bleach press conference there was a remarkable number of people that actually drank bleach. BLEACH!

 

I must have missed the part of the conference where the lady doctor told everyone Covid was some alien sperm related thing. Did the other doctors who spoke subscribe to her strange views as well?

 

There are plenty of quacks out there both known and unknown. I'd suspect if all of the quacks were known, there would be an awful shortage of "reliable" doctors, dentists, and scientists.

Yea everything i've said just went woosh.

 

Right back at ya  :o

 

Well it’s Thursday....time to head over to the booze thread  ;D

[Gregmal]

Yet....we continuously see some folks quoting mouthpieces on Twitter.....who dont even have the credentials of... you know, MD.

 

Further, this lady has a crazy theory, whatever. People are fine to judge her on that. Same with Kyrie Irving thinking the Earth is flat. But its downright stupid to say that "everything else they say is invalid" because of it. Its just a stupid tactic liberals use to discredit people. I can learn about medical subjects from a doctor with outlandish or otherwise crazy views; I can learn about basketball from Kyrie....tolerance of opposing viewpoints/beliefs for the win! Except rb, who must really be genuinely concerned about all those rabid Trump sheep dying from coronavirus HCQ....

[Dalal.Holdings]

It is kind of strange how invested some people seem to be in proclaiming HCQ as either effective or ineffective.

 

Trump pathologically can't admit mistakes, and early on he needed to peddle some miracle cure to reassure people, so he jumped on the early positive news about HCQ but pushed it way way way farther than the evidence supported, so here we are. He can't really reverse on it, and his followers take their cues from him, rather than from the science. Heck, the feds bought 60 million doses, so even more incentives to say it works... Personally, I'll trust Fauci over Trump and his 'demon sperm' doctor on this topic.

 

Meanwhile in New Zealand:

 

 

It's ironic...the same individuals bashing this "demon sperm doctor" for her views are the same ones who say men can be women and men can give birth and have periods...

 

BAHAHA! You got me! I literally burst out laughing! LOL! This thread has officially jumped the shark! OMG...My sides! BAHAHAHA

[Investor20]

It is not just about HCQ.  It is about Airborne transmission and ventilation.  It is about Vitamin D and its deficiency.

 

Dr. Fauci and WHO talk about Remedsivir and vaccines that would be very expensive.  But why not leave those to pharmaceutical companies which can make a lot of profit in billions of dollars.

 

Why not WHO and Dr. Fauci focus on Airborne transmission, Vitamin D or studying HCQ+Zinc?  There is no profit in these.  If government agencies and WHO doesnt do research on these, who will?

 

Below is about Vitamin D article recently from Israel.  Why did we have to wait for Israel to do a study on this?  Why didn't Dr. Fauci or WHO?

 

https://www.jpost.com/health-science/vitamin-d-deficiency-could-make-you-more-prone-to-covid-19-new-study-636350

“The main finding of our study was the significant association of low plasma vitamin D level with the likelihood of COVID-19 infection among patients who were tested for COVID-19, even after adjustment for age, gender, socioeconomic status and chronic, mental and physical disorders,” said Dr. Eugene Merzon, head of Leumit’s Department of Managed Care and its leading researcher

 

[Investor20]

Vitamin D as an Independent Risk Factor for COVID-19 Death

https://medium.com/microbial-instincts/lack-of-vitamin-d-as-an-independent-risk-factor-for-covid-19-death-82365d0520fa

 

Several studies were covered:

 

Indonesian study:

 

When adjusted for confounds — i.e., age, sex, and comorbidity — those with vitamin D insufficiency and deficiency were still 7.63 and 10.12 times more likely to die, respectively.

 

Phillipines study:

 

For each standard deviation increase in serum 25(OH)D, the odds of having a mild clinical outcome rather than a severe outcome were approximately 7.94 times,” the author wrote.

 

UK study:

 

They found that only 19% (8/42) of patients admitted to ICU had normal vitamin D levels, and this number is 39.1% (36/92) in those with non-ICU level severity.

........................

 

Fauci department has 5.9 billion dollars budget.  How about they commission a study on Vitamin D and Covid?

 

Yet we have to look at Israeli, UK, Phillipines, Indonesia studies for Vitamin D association with Covid-19.

[RichardGibbons]

Fauci department has 5.9 billion dollars budget.  How about they commission a study on Vitamin D and Covid?

 

Yet we have to look at Israeli, UK, Phillipines, Indonesia studies for Vitamin D association with Covid-19.

 

He says it has an impact, and he's also aware of your zinc claims:

 

Dr Fauci:I think it really relates to the importance of vitamin D in host defense against infection. There’s no doubt that if you are vitamin D deficient, you might have a poor outcome or a greater chance of getting into trouble with an infection. Most people in the developed world are not vitamin D deficient, so adding additional vitamin D may not actually have a substantial clinical effect. That doesn’t lessen the importance of a normal level of vitamin D. In some of the developing countries, there have been studies with tuberculosis and other diseases. Those who are vitamin deficient, including vitamin D and vitamin A, they do worse.

 

 

[Investor20]

Fauci department has 5.9 billion dollars budget.  How about they commission a study on Vitamin D and Covid?

 

Yet we have to look at Israeli, UK, Phillipines, Indonesia studies for Vitamin D association with Covid-19.

 

He says it has an impact, and he's also aware of your zinc claims:

 

Dr Fauci:I think it really relates to the importance of vitamin D in host defense against infection. There’s no doubt that if you are vitamin D deficient, you might have a poor outcome or a greater chance of getting into trouble with an infection. Most people in the developed world are not vitamin D deficient, so adding additional vitamin D may not actually have a substantial clinical effect. That doesn’t lessen the importance of a normal level of vitamin D. In some of the developing countries, there have been studies with tuberculosis and other diseases. Those who are vitamin deficient, including vitamin D and vitamin A, they do worse.

 

Dr Bauchner:Both you and I are strong believers in a randomized clinical trial.

Dr Fauci:And, unfortunately, there’s a paucity of that.

 

This is what I am talking about.  I am not sure if I care he is aware of it.  He is given 5.9 billion dollar budget.  Not to subsidize pharma companies on profitable projects.  It is given to study these and let the people know what to do about it.

 

I dont agree Vitamin D deficiency is low in US. 

 

https://www.cantonmercy.org/healthchat/42-percent-of-americans-are-vitamin-d-deficient/

42% Percent of Americans Are Vitamin D Deficient. Are You Among Them?

 

There are many studies looking at Vitamin D deficiency geographically and death rate in that area.  Below is one example.

 

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200702/More-evidence-on-vitamin-D-deficiency-and-death-rates-from-COVID-19.aspx

Physicians at the Complete Med Care clinic in Dallas, Texas, have conducted a study showing that the prevalence of severe vitamin D deficiency is strongly correlated with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) mortality rate in European countries.

 

Vitamin D deficiency also correlates to race in Covid deaths.  For example below study said

"An estimated 40% of American adults may be vitamin D deficient. For African-Americans, that number may be nearly double at 76% according to a new study by The Cooper Institute."

https://www.cooperinstitute.org/2019/09/24/african-americans-at-greatest-risk-of-vitamin-d-deficiency

 

Some of the above studies such as the Indonesia study said,

 

"When adjusted for confounds — i.e., age, sex, and comorbidity — those with vitamin D insufficiency and deficiency were still 7.63 and 10.12 times more likely to die, respectively. "

 

10 times the chance of death with Vitamin D deficiency is claimed in above study.  42% of Americans and 76% blacks have Vitamin D deficiency.  Yet not one study from 5.9 billion dollar budget to look at it.

[muscleman]

I have to wonder why Fauci is appointed by Trump to lead this.

[Liberty]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-fauci-idUSKCN24W1GS

[Cigarbutt]

It is not just about HCQ.  It is about Airborne transmission and ventilation.  It is about Vitamin D and its deficiency.

 

Dr. Fauci and WHO talk about Remedsivir and vaccines that would be very expensive.  But why not leave those to pharmaceutical companies which can make a lot of profit in billions of dollars.

 

Why not WHO and Dr. Fauci focus on Airborne transmission, Vitamin D or studying HCQ+Zinc?  There is no profit in these.  If government agencies and WHO doesnt do research on these, who will?

 

Below is about Vitamin D article recently from Israel.  Why did we have to wait for Israel to do a study on this?  Why didn't Dr. Fauci or WHO?

 

https://www.jpost.com/health-science/vitamin-d-deficiency-could-make-you-more-prone-to-covid-19-new-study-636350

“The main finding of our study was the significant association of low plasma vitamin D level with the likelihood of COVID-19 infection among patients who were tested for COVID-19, even after adjustment for age, gender, socioeconomic status and chronic, mental and physical disorders,” said Dr. Eugene Merzon, head of Leumit’s Department of Managed Care and its leading researcher

As a learning exercise, i did look in some details (fundamental) at the study mentioned above and briefly at the others (more pattern recognition). There is little hope for an individual impact here but this is offered to the world. BTW, as an individual (adult and ability to consent), you are free to ingest whatever you desire and can combine it or use alternative intake routes. i just worry about the impact at the population level.

 

The study is based on some basic biologic rationale and there is a certain body of literature supporting some of the foundations. The study reaches minimal criteria for publication in a secondary peer-reviewed journal.

 

The negatives

-the study is retrospective and observational (weak evidence to start with)

-one of the main inclusion criteria was the presence of vitamin D levels previously documented which is a huge methodological problem

    -they had to exclude a large number of cases based on that aspect

    -their conclusion is based on a statistical correction of confounders which then becomes a super weak argument, given such an obvious selection bias initial condition

    -there is no documentation or discussion as to why (intent or indication) and when (unstandardized) vitamin D levels were measured (this has huge implications for validity)

-statistical techniques to correct for confounding variables are used but, in addition to the factor mentioned above, there is a whole constellation of factors in this study that suggest a very high risk of significant residual confounding

-the COVID-19 positive group came from a group of lower socio-economic status which is very difficult to control for

-the study does not identify risk factors that are coherent in nature and that have been largely recognized elsewhere (suggesting manifest methodological flaws in this study)

-the basic underlying finding is the following:

 

                                                          COVID+                          COVID-                    p value

Mean vitamin D(ng/mL; 95%CI)    19.00(18.41-19.59)        20.55(20.32-20.78)          0.026

Proportion with low vitamin D level        89.90%                            84.91%                  p<0.001

 

which depicts the classic risk of translating "statistically" significant findings into causality discussions and relevant clinical findings

---

What is concerning (IMO) is the language used. The study has very weak methodology and setup while inflating statistical findings of very questionable value. There is a conflation of analytical conclusions that suggest that the authors were on a mission. In itself (on a scale of 0 to 100), the study has about a 0.1 to 0.01 value in defining the role of vitamin D as a "risk factor" and the study, in itself, would not add significant value in the context of a meta-analytical framework.

---

This knowledge avenue is slightly better than the hydroxychloroquine alley or the bleach dead end and while it's mentioned that considerations such as affordability and benign profile should be given, it's a mental framework that can lead astray. i understand (and agree with) the relative lack of interest at the institutional level. Resources are limited and it's important to keep rational mental pathways separate from emotion centers.

 

---o---o---

 

I have to wonder why Fauci is appointed by Trump to lead this.

i would suggest that people who rationally explain things (even if politely, constructively etc) can be deeply hated if one is wired a certain way.

Note: the post has been edited for spelling errors (there may be one or two left but i have to go; i accompany my father-in-law (who bears very real and significant risk factors) for a test at the hospital).

[Investor20]

It is not just about HCQ.  It is about Airborne transmission and ventilation.  It is about Vitamin D and its deficiency.

 

Dr. Fauci and WHO talk about Remedsivir and vaccines that would be very expensive.  But why not leave those to pharmaceutical companies which can make a lot of profit in billions of dollars.

 

Why not WHO and Dr. Fauci focus on Airborne transmission, Vitamin D or studying HCQ+Zinc?  There is no profit in these.  If government agencies and WHO doesnt do research on these, who will?

 

Below is about Vitamin D article recently from Israel.  Why did we have to wait for Israel to do a study on this?  Why didn't Dr. Fauci or WHO?

 

https://www.jpost.com/health-science/vitamin-d-deficiency-could-make-you-more-prone-to-covid-19-new-study-636350

“The main finding of our study was the significant association of low plasma vitamin D level with the likelihood of COVID-19 infection among patients who were tested for COVID-19, even after adjustment for age, gender, socioeconomic status and chronic, mental and physical disorders,” said Dr. Eugene Merzon, head of Leumit’s Department of Managed Care and its leading researcher

As a learning exercise, i did look in some details (fundamental) at the study mentioned above and briefly at the others (more pattern recognition). There is little hope for an individual impact here but this is offered to the world. BTW, as an individual (adult and ability to consent), you are free to ingest whatever you desire and can combine it or use alternative intake routes. i just worry about the impact at the population level.

 

The study is based on some basic biologic rationale and there is a certain body of literature supporting some of the foundations. The study reaches minimal criteria for publication in a secondary peer-reviewed journal.

 

The negatives

-the study is retrospective and observational (weak evidence to start with)

-one of the main inclusion criteria was the presence of vitamin D levels previously documented which is a huge methodological problem

    -they had to exclude a large number of cases based on that aspect

    -their conclusion is based on a statistical correction of confounders which then becomes a super weak argument, given such an obvious selection bias initial condition

    -there is no documentation or discussion as to why (intent or indication) and when (unstandardized) vitamin D levels were measured (this has huge implications for validity)

-statistical techniques to correct for confounding variables are used but, in addition to the factor mentioned above, there is a whole constellation of factors in this study that suggest a very high risk of significant residual confounding

-the COVID-19 positive group came from a group of lower socio-economic status which is very difficult to control for

-the study does not identify risk factors that are coherent in nature and that have been largely recognized elsewhere (suggesting manifest methodological flaws in this study)

-the basic underlying finding is the following:

 

                                                          COVID+                          COVID-                    p value

Mean vitamin D(ng/mL; 95%CI)    19.00(18.41-19.59)        20.55(20.32-20.78)          0.026

Proportion with low vitamin D level        89.90%                            84.91%                  p<0.001

 

which depicts the classic risk of translating "statistically" significant findings into causality discussions and relevant clinical findings

---

What is concerning (IMO) is the language used. The study has very weak methodology and setup while inflating statistical findings of very questionable value. There is a conflation of analytical conclusions that suggest that the authors were on a mission. In itself (on a scale of 0 to 100), the study has about a 0.1 to 0.01 value in defining the role of vitamin D as a "risk factor" and the study, in itself, would not add significant value in the context of a meta-analytical framework.

---

This knowledge avenue is slightly better than the hydroxychloroquine alley or the bleach dead end and while it's mentioned that considerations such as affordability and benign profile should be given, it's a mental framework that can lead astray. i understand (and agree with) the relative lack of interest at the institutional level. Resources are limited and it's important to keep rational mental pathways separate from emotion centers.

 

---o---o---

 

I have to wonder why Fauci is appointed by Trump to lead this.

i would suggest that people who rationally explain things (even if politely, constructively etc) can be deeply hated if one is wired a certain way.

Note: the post has been edited for spelling errors (there may be one or two left but i have to go; i accompany my father-in-law (who bears very real and significant risk factors) for a test at the hospital).

 

One of the criticisms of HCQ+Zinc by Zelenko or NYU Grossman or this study of Vitamin D is that they are not RCT.

 

Please Cigarbutt, show me the RCT that showed reduced mortality with Remedisivir.  After all NIAID and WHO had resources to help out a private pharmaceutical company set to make billions but has no resources left to study Vitamin D or HCQ+Zinc which are almost free.

 

https://time.com/5865491/remdesivir-covid-study/

Gilead’s analysis is the next-best thing to a randomized placebo-controlled trial, and the company’s scientists acknowledge that more studies are needed to confirm the reduction in mortality.

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/05/11/inside-the-nihs-controversial-decision-to-stop-its-big-remdesivir-study/

The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases has described to STAT in new detail how it made its fateful decision: to start giving remdesivir to patients who had been assigned to receive a placebo in the study, essentially limiting researchers’ ability to collect more data about whether the drug saves lives — something the study, called ACTT-1, suggests but does not prove. In the trial, 8% of the participants given remdesivir died, compared with 11.6% of the placebo group, a difference that was not statistically significant.

 

https://www.gilead.com/purpose/advancing-global-health/covid-19/remdesivir-clinical-trials

Remedisivir is not only expensive, it needs to be given by IV in hospital. But see how many studies by government agencies in above link.  Simple trial by NIAID.  A second study by NIAID.  A third study by WHO.  A study by France. Another by China.

 

But this drug cannot be used for poor by its very nature of being an IV drug.  And after all this help out from tax payer money, Gilead says on their website "a difference that was not statistically significant" for mortality for their RCT study.

 

You think in return, Gilead will study Vitamin D, HCQ +ZINC, ventilation?  Any chance?

 

No their executives will make lots of money from their stock options

 

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/after-gilead-reveals-remdesivir-pricing-analyst-sees-significant-revenue-upside-2020-07-02

After Gilead Reveals Remdesivir Pricing, Analyst Sees Significant Revenue Upside

 

If both govt agencies and private companies work only on profitable projects, who is going to do the non-profitable research?

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/07/us-government-awards-novavax-1point6-billion-for-coronavirus-vaccine.html

Novavax soars after U.S. government awards firm $1.6 billion for coronavirus vaccine development

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/22/us/politics/pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine.html

Pfizer Gets $1.95 Billion to Produce Coronavirus Vaccine by Year’s End

 

For a vaccine that may or may not suceed.  This whole argument that there is no money for Vitamin D, HCQ+Zinc, airborne transmission studies but there are billions and billions for private profitable research?

 

Also, in a subsequent post I gave a link to a medium.com article with several studies claiming Vitamin D improves severity and mortality. Its not just one study that you commented on that studied Vitamin D deficiency for Covid. There are even more actually not covered in medium.com article.  I will try to summarize in coming days.