Coronavirus

[Gregmal]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9629563/Chinese-scientists-created-COVID-19-lab-tried-cover-tracks-new-study-claims.html

Hopefully more and more continues to bleed out. Remember all the whistleblowers in China in Jan/Feb who just went away? Remember the Chinese scientist chick who came over here around this time last year saying it was a coverup and the media scrubbed her and she just went away? Or the reports of an internal memo going around the Wuhan Institute mandating a complete security and procedural overhaul last February? Almost the same as new security features at a bank after a robbery? But when the government and media collude together to hide things from people, one has to accept that the truth is, very likely we will never get the full or true story. But all signs point to a massive government coverup here. Both with respect to China, and also most likely the US being complicit; after all they happened to be funding this lab. The behavior in the beginning was very telling. The US politicians held an emergency meeting a couple weeks into January, a mere 2 weeks after the first cases were reported in China? The lockdowns in China after like 3 weeks? We'd previously seen random outbreaks like Ebola and some others and never was the response like this one. Tell tale behavior of people who know more than they're letting on. Meanwhile, the average fool goes to The NY Times and says "thats the truth, they're credible!"...and it goes away just like the powers that be want. 

A reminder to all to always think for yourselves. There's a saying when investing that the more certainty/data one needs to invest, the higher the price they pay and the lower the subsequent returns. Great investors connect a few facts with a bunch of speculation and circumstantial data and arrive in the correct place. Obviously not everyone has this skill, but self awareness makes it somewhat easier. You had everything you needed here 3-4 months into this "pandemic".

 

[Spekulatius]

It should absolutely get investigated what happens in this Wuhan lab at that one and the US should apply pressure tomorrow the Chinese to open the Sarong so to speak. If it want in the lab, we should be able to find the animal host and transfer chain. it should be evident for everyone that after hundred thousands of dead and trillion $ in economic damages throughout the world economy, we need to find out exactly what happened and to prevent this from occurring again.

In the meantime, assume Occam’s razor is correct 80-90% of the time.

I also think we should support Taiwan and give them the 23M/46Mdoses of a vaccine they need to get most of the population vaccinated. That would send a nice signal to allies and a big middle finger to the Chinese who want to sell their lousy vaccine to countries that don’t have any other options.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Spekulatius

[JRM]

Even more damning is that Trump could have been on the right track with HCQ\Invermectin, but we had to follow the "science" instead.  How many people died unnecessarily due this political arrogance?

https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/The-Drug-that-Cracked-Covid-by-Michael-Capuzzo.pdf

[Gregmal]

If one didnt rely on The NY Times or Wapo, Occam's razor would have lead to the most logical conclusion....

Get me a world map.

Put a pin on where these type of virus research institutes are located

Get a second world map.

Put a pin where the first virus cases were reported. Draw a circle around the 100 mile radius.

Overlap them now.

Conclusion?

Meanwhile some actually thought it came from a dirty food festival? If that were the case we'd have new pandemics every 6 months. Especially when NYC does their food truck festivals...Sometimes common sense is not the hard part, its finding the right lens to look through. Many people suffered from politically inspired bias. 

[Buckeye]

On 5/27/2021 at 12:24 PM, Gregmal said:

I mean for one, the first thing Joe Biden did upon entering office was shut down the ongoing Wuhan Lab investigation. 

Hello Greg,

Thank you for your reply and for specifics.

[Buckeye]

On 5/27/2021 at 12:24 PM, Gregmal said:

I mean for one, the first thing Joe Biden did upon entering office was shut down the ongoing Wuhan Lab investigation. 

Hello Greg,

Thank you for your reply and for specifics.

[Buckeye]

On 5/27/2021 at 12:24 PM, Gregmal said:

I mean for one, the first thing Joe Biden did upon entering office was shut down the ongoing Wuhan Lab investigation. 

Hello Greg,

Thank you for your reply and for specifics.

[Buckeye]

On 5/27/2021 at 12:24 PM, Gregmal said:

I mean for one, the first thing Joe Biden did upon entering office was shut down the ongoing Wuhan Lab investigation. 

Hello Greg,

Thank you for your reply and for specifics.

[ERICOPOLY]

On 5/24/2021 at 11:30 AM, rkbabang said:

I too have gotten the vaccine, but I did so knowing full well that I am basically a guinee pig taking an experimental injection for which the short term risks are poorly studied and the long term consequences are completely unknown

It's not a hard decision knowing that almost 600,000 are dead in the US from covid-19, and many other survivors are suffering long term effects from their battle with covid-19.  Meanwhile, the number of people vaccinated in the US far exceeds the number who have been infected with covid-19, and the dead and suffering are almost exclusively among the non-vaccinated. 

As the saying goes:   'Scorecard!'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gregmal]

https://nypost.com/2021/06/03/state-dept-staffers-were-warned-against-probing-covid-origin-report/

Pretty stunning. As is a ton of the other stuff now leaking out. Especially little liar Fauci who knew all along and was colluding with China.

Granted, this is America and there is no accountability anymore....but I think there should be severe fines, loss of licenses, and repercussions for any politician, scientist, or media outlet that had a role is covering this up or keeping it under wraps. Everyone from FB and TWTR to guys like Fauci need to be held accountable.

It was obvious from the beginning...my favorite was all the "its so contagious/highly transmissible" statements...Hmmmm, almost like it was designed to be!

[ERICOPOLY]

56 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

https://nypost.com/2021/06/03/state-dept-staffers-were-warned-against-probing-covid-origin-report/

Pretty stunning.

So the "Kung Flu" comments were not racist in origin, but were instead a deflection organized by the top of US Government in order to hide the Administration's role in the outbreak?

In 2017, under President Donald Trump, the moratorium was lifted and replaced with a review system called P3CO — for Potential Pandemic Pathogen Care and Oversight — that left the review process shrouded in secrecy, according to the article.

Edited June 3, 2021 by ERICOPOLY

[Gregmal]

I think there is little doubt much of the administration and tentacles of government were aware. Why hold top secret task force meetings in January of 2020, mere weeks after word of this broke? One so informative that there was bipartisan support for massive repositioning of said members stock portfolios! I dont ever recall such measures, certainly not to the same extent, occurring for Ebola in 2014 or H1N1...

But "Kung Flu" was a great example of this coverup. Same for the travel ban to China. Rather than actually looking into why these things were being said/done...they(media and politicians) just redirected the narrative and called it racism. 

 

[ERICOPOLY]

5 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

 

But "Kung Flu" was a great example of this coverup. Same for the travel ban to China. 

 

My point was to ask whether the people pointing the finger at China were doing so to deflect the spotlight off of themselves.  Why else would they repeatedly say "over there!", "over there!".

That can be read either way.  Perhaps the media called it racist because they underestimate the man.

 

[Gregmal]

Just my opinion but I believe the US is also quite culpable in this. There's always finger pointing involved, but the truth is its typically for show. The US and China were hardly in the dark on this. We hear tons about "China covering it up" but nothing about our own public servants and supposed watch dogs doing the same here. Or the scientists who inexplicably chose self interest out of fear of potentially losing funding or getting a bad rap...lots of things were exposed and supposed checks and balances failed the American people.

The media should be a watchdog and it says something that a "tabloid" as many people call it, like Daily Mail or NY Post, were the only ones doing their job. Whereas, even on these very forums, you had tons of arrogant people sneering those publications while linking to crap like the NY Times and the like, or "scientific" journals and sites, which were all either actively deceiving everyone, or willfully negligent and complicit. I recall posts here to respected scientists who were publishing shit(or tweeting lol) basically saying the genome sequencing proves its impossible for this to have been lab originated....something we now know is just bogus interpretation of the "science"...

Imagine how much less confusing and controversy there would have been if in February 2020 they had just been honest with people? Hey, a lab manipulated virus accidentally got out of a research lab...its been tinkered with to be highly contagious...here's what can be done to take precautions? LOL instead they all lied and scrambled and made it a political thing and forced people to focus on Trump sucks/Fauci is awesome/hoax/mask/no masks.....and then wonder why people are all over the place with this! Imagine if the "respected" journalists and firms had put in 1/10th the effort into getting to the bottom of this as they did stupid tabloid shit like tax returns and fear porn?

[Thrifty3000]

This group (DRASTIC) is to the covid lab leak theory what Wall Street Bets was to the GME thesis:

https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-how-amateur-sleuths-broke-wuhan-lab-story-embarrassed-media-1596958

[beerbaron]

It seems like a very valid question if the Virus was man made in China and was the results of incompetence. But to me its sounds like witch hunt. It is plausible that it was actually the case, and I would not be surprised if it happened, after all incompetence or human error is a function of our species. China, Japan, China, Europe, Russia all made monumental mistakes on projects... , Chernobyl, Mars Climate Orbiter, Challenger, etc...

But what I fail to understand is what is the outcome here? First, it's almost impossible that we could be able to take the genome of COVID and come out with great confidence that it was man made. Analysis, peer review, fact, counter facts, etc... this can take 5 years of scientific debate and when we'll be finished all we will have in front of us is a 1000 pages document with a spaghetti of nuances. Nothing concrete will ever come out of it.

Most importantly, what's the end game here? Would we go to war with China over this? An why? It's not like they would ever admit it and it's not like we could ever be close to proving this with let's say... 98% certainty. So why do all this if we won't do anything over this? Seems like a distraction IMO.

However, you don't need proofs that China screwed up to improve things. Actually if any of you ever worked with Asian cultures you would know that not losing face is way above truth. Give them a way out and they will collaborate with you.

The pandemic has made everybody very aware of the risks so we have a good opportunity here to reduce risks. Our focus should be on answering the following questions:

How are each country handling their biological labs?

Do all labs handling virus have proper procedures in places?

How we better secure those labs?

Which equipment's and knowhow are critical to making bio weapons and how do we control this?

Pointing fingers is not going to help. Identifying the risks and make sure we have a unified approach and proper funding to avoid those 

BeerBaron

[Gregmal]

20 hours ago, beerbaron said:

It seems like a very valid question if the Virus was man made in China and was the results of incompetence. But to me its sounds like witch hunt. It is plausible that it was actually the case, and I would not be surprised if it happened, after all incompetence or human error is a function of our species. China, Japan, China, Europe, Russia all made monumental mistakes on projects... , Chernobyl, Mars Climate Orbiter, Challenger, etc...

But what I fail to understand is what is the outcome here? First, it's almost impossible that we could be able to take the genome of COVID and come out with great confidence that it was man made. Analysis, peer review, fact, counter facts, etc... this can take 5 years of scientific debate and when we'll be finished all we will have in front of us is a 1000 pages document with a spaghetti of nuances. Nothing concrete will ever come out of it.

Most importantly, what's the end game here? Would we go to war with China over this? An why? It's not like they would ever admit it and it's not like we could ever be close to proving this with let's say... 98% certainty. So why do all this if we won't do anything over this? Seems like a distraction IMO.

However, you don't need proofs that China screwed up to improve things. Actually if any of you ever worked with Asian cultures you would know that not losing face is way above truth. Give them a way out and they will collaborate with you.

The pandemic has made everybody very aware of the risks so we have a good opportunity here to reduce risks. Our focus should be on answering the following questions:

How are each country handling their biological labs?

Do all labs handling virus have proper procedures in places?

How we better secure those labs?

Which equipment's and knowhow are critical to making bio weapons and how do we control this?

Pointing fingers is not going to help. Identifying the risks and make sure we have a unified approach and proper funding to avoid those 

BeerBaron

Its not really about China anymore, at least in terms of holding them accountable. It can likely never be proven to a degree they'll cop to it, and even if it was, there's few realistic paths at this point. The point is to seek accountability from the scumbags in the press and the politicians who covered it up, who lied, who censored the truth. There also should be accountability from the shitbags, normal folks, who basically used this as an outlet for their derangement and created a situation where the politicians and media could do something like this. Isnt it insane that we had numerous politicians and publications matter of factly stated that the lab leak was "debunked"? "Fact checking it"? Are you kidding me! It was all an active fraud on the American people and a widespread politically charged aggression. 

Here's some new stuff:

https://nypost.com/2021/06/05/trump-wanted-to-publicly-grill-fauci-on-wuhan-lab-funding/

Evidence China had a vaccine before the first cases were acknowledged.

Evidence Fauci was scheming back in January. 

this gem:

The meeting objective was to assess what data is needed to understand the evolutionary origins of COVID-19 and respond to “resulting misinformation”. 

Fauci gave a 10-minute presentation.

By April, the intelligence community had concluded there was no chance that COVID-19 had been manipulated in a lab. 

“The Intelligence Community also concurs with the wide scientific consensus that the COVID-19 virus was not manmade or genetically modified,” the Office of the Director of National Intelligence said in the April 30, 2020 statement.

The statement was false; there was no consensus. More than 30 internationally renowned scientists signed letters to call for an inquiry into a potential lab leak. 

So get this! The POTUS wanted to investigate it....THERE WAS ZERO BIPARITSAN SUPPORT! There was also the determination that it would be impotent because the media would actively undermine it! And then craziest of all, the second the new guy, who has rampant history and ties ton China...comes in and immediately shuts down any remaining inquiries into it and continue appeasing/covering up for China! And while we needed 3 years to investigate some bogus Russia conspiracy....he's giving this, which is immensely greater in significance....90 freakin days! Gee, I wonder what conclusion this "inquiry" will have? 

People should be outraged and holding these folks accountable. However many of them, the ones who expressed fake outrage a year ago, the ones basically just using covid as a derangement outlet...like many of this ones who were posting on this very thread...are long gone and dont care anymore. Its disgraceful. 

As I said over a year ago(to which many of these pompous chumps said was an improper and selfish statement) fuck everyone else. Take care of you and your friends/loved ones. When something like this can happen, and you have the government and media actively lying and scheming and so much of the country wrapped up in "AHH I HATE HIM!!"...that they too become complicit in it...watch out. Thats very dangerous. So much of this could have been avoided...especially all the skepticism around it if there's wasn't so much of an effort to hide it and paint a political narrative around it. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Gregmal

[LongHaul]

Beerbaron - read the Newsweek article Thrifty3000 posted.  

 

After reading this I think the odds that the Covid-19 virus came from the Wuhan Lab are higher than I previously thought.

I would rate the article and A++ and the work of Drastic and A++.  It is really amazing. 

 

What are the odds that Covid-19 comes out of Wuhan? - a city that only has ~1% of China's population and also holds the National Institute of Virology.  

 

Much more information will come out in the next few months.  

Edited June 8, 2021 by LongHaul

[maplevalue]

This Week in Virology 762 - SARS-CoV-2 origins with Robert Garry

I don't necessarily agree with the conclusions of the people in the podcast (particular with respect to CCP obfuscation), but still an interesting discussion with some Professors from Tulane and Columbia. They are fairly dismissive of the lab leak hypothesis.

Edited June 8, 2021 by maplevalue

[Gregmal]

Its amazed me how throughout this thing, the "science" guys seem so personally invested in this not being a lab leak. I know part of this is self interest...they love being celebrities and viewed as experts(rather than the nerdy putzes that most of them are), and they probably also fear the funding they rely on would be jeopardized....but its just another example of how many of the people who have played a pivotal role in how this thing has been handled, act out of self interest. 

[beerbaron]

6 hours ago, LongHaul said:

Beerbaron - read the Newsweek article Thrifty3000 posted.  

 

After reading this I think the odds that the Covid-19 virus came from the Wuhan Lab are higher than I previously thought.

I would rate the article and A++ and the work of Drastic and A++.  It is really amazing. 

 

What are the odds that Covid-19 comes out of Wuhan? - a city that only has ~1% of China's population and also holds the National Institute of Virology.  

 

Much more information will come out in the next few months.  

Thanks for the recommendation. I red the article and placed myself a reminder to revisit in 3 months when the intelligence community has done it's job. At this point I have little opinion, it's quite possible it came from a lab but really the question should be how to make sure it never comes from a lab?

 

Here is my prognostic of the findings in 3 months, I'll post in this thread then. You can claim I was wrong but I'm putting my neck down. US intelligence findings will be:

• There are circumstantial evidences that Covid might have come from a lab but no solid proofs.
• Understanding a virus genome is complicated because it changes a lot over time.
• China has not been cooperating with our investigation so our findings are not strong.

BeerBaron

[Jurgis]

"No politics on CoBF" is dead. Good job @Parsad

 

 

* it's not just this thread. It's pretty pervasive.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Jurgis

[Gregmal]

1 hour ago, Jurgis said:

"No politics on CoBF" is dead. Good job @Parsad

 

 

* it's not just this thread. It's pretty pervasive.

Hi Rat Clown,

 

If I may ask, what part of seeking the truth or seeking accountability is politics? Are you not recalling how many people hastily dismissed the lab leak theory for the past year? I specifically recall several folks here even trashing another member for posting a Hedgeye story about this last March.

 

Otherwise, if you wish to revert to old habits of trying to get me banned or censored, please just be forthright. The lame attempt above to pressure and manipulate @Parsad is cowardly and in poor taste. 

 

I have told Sanjeev on several occasions that I am fine shutting the covid thread if its too controversial however the thread remains open and the lab leak, as well as the behavior and active cover up of many is disgraceful and worth discussing. 

 

Otherwise, I appreciate your contributions here as do many others. Your actionable investment ideas are second to none. 

 

Thx

[hasilp89]

Maybe this had been shared upthread and I missed it (saw someone post about Drastic), I found this article pretty informative of the timeline and the different factors at play. It’s long but it lays things out and you can think for yourself. My take is that like @Gregmal said there are many parties accountable. What sucks is it became a political issue as soon as trump opened his mouth. Scientists backed off because the topic became xenophobic. Speaking for myself I just believed what the media and US government told me that this came from bats at a wuhan wet market. From the studies I see now, there were no bats. Ridiculous it couldn’t be investigated properly considering the impact it has had and that leaders everywhere couldn’t ask the tough questions.

 

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-inside-the-fight-to-uncover-covid-19s-origins?utm_campaign=MOI Global&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue newsletter

[cubsfan]

The truth is definitely worth knowing.  And like Russia, Russia and today, Critical Race theory garbage, it's good to examine the Covid origin - coverup for China and our public health official's roles in keeping the truth from the American people.  Unfortunately, some members are embarrassed by the truth and would just as soon shut @Gregmal down and intimidate him.

 

We've seen it before.