Coronavirus

[Jurgis]

 

I work in healthcare...

 

This seems to be affecting old/ immuno compromised people the most( like everything else) These people bluntly are going to die at some point in time sooner then their more resistant counterparts. Not much at this point any of us can do otherwise. The panic is irrational.

 

I'm sorry, you work in healthcare?  As in caring of people who are ill, with the goal of them getting better?

 

There are goals and there are realities. The reality is if your old and/or immuno compromised your more likely to die if you get the corona virus. Without a cure what exactly would you like a healthcare worker to do in that situation?

 

The right thing obviously is to have total contempt to the patients that you exhibit here.

[Guest cherzeca]

 

I work in healthcare...

 

This seems to be affecting old/ immuno compromised people the most( like everything else) These people bluntly are going to die at some point in time sooner then their more resistant counterparts. Not much at this point any of us can do otherwise. The panic is irrational.

 

I'm sorry, you work in healthcare?  As in caring of people who are ill, with the goal of them getting better?

 

There are goals and there are realities. The reality is if your old and/or immuno compromised your more likely to die if you get the corona virus. Without a cure what exactly would you like a healthcare worker to do in that situation?

 

the normal flu season effect is similar (frankly, I believe worse) to this covid19 effect, which leads one to wonder why we have been so cavalier about the normal flu, which unlike covid19 doesnt have a name and a mysterious and perhaps insidious origin...oh that's right, because most of the fatalities occur to people who are old, and our society mostly disrespects elders and aged.  we have a misplaced hysteria re covid19...the hysteria should be directed to why we dont care about normal flu fatalities

[Kaegi2011]

 

I work in healthcare...

 

This seems to be affecting old/ immuno compromised people the most( like everything else) These people bluntly are going to die at some point in time sooner then their more resistant counterparts. Not much at this point any of us can do otherwise. The panic is irrational.

 

I'm sorry, you work in healthcare?  As in caring of people who are ill, with the goal of them getting better?

 

There are goals and there are realities. The reality is if your old and/or immuno compromised your more likely to die if you get the corona virus. Without a cure what exactly would you like a healthcare worker to do in that situation?

 

I know that the internet does not convey tone well, so please believe me when I say that I mean this in the most sincere, non-offense way - I think you should find another line of work outside of the healthcare industry.  If your default response whenever someone is ill with an unknown illness or an illness in which there is no cure is to suggest that there's nothing to do, then perhaps trying to help those in need of help is your calling. 

[Gregmal]

 

I work in healthcare...

 

This seems to be affecting old/ immuno compromised people the most( like everything else) These people bluntly are going to die at some point in time sooner then their more resistant counterparts. Not much at this point any of us can do otherwise. The panic is irrational.

 

I'm sorry, you work in healthcare?  As in caring of people who are ill, with the goal of them getting better?

 

There are goals and there are realities. The reality is if your old and/or immuno compromised your more likely to die if you get the corona virus. Without a cure what exactly would you like a healthcare worker to do in that situation?

 

I know that the internet does not convey tone well, so please believe me when I say that I mean this in the most sincere, non-offense way - I think you should find another line of work outside of the healthcare industry.  If your default response whenever someone is ill with an unknown illness or an illness in which there is no cure is to suggest that there's nothing to do, then perhaps trying to help those in need of help is your calling.

 

You clearly have never met a doctor if thats what you think... its almost a prerequisite for anyone more than a nurse to basically remove emotion from things and strictly stick to protocol. Often times protocol is not warm and fuzzy.

[compoundinglife]

Interesting blog post from a researcher here in Seattle at the Fred Hutch Cancer Research Center. They are doing genomic epidemiology research. Using samples they had from the Seattle flu project ( https://seattleflu.org/ ) they were able to identify the second patient in Washington from a previous flu test sample and come up with a potential transmission chain linking it the first patient.

 

Cryptic transmission of novel coronavirus revealed by genomic epidemiology

https://bedford.io/blog/ncov-cryptic-transmission/

[orthopa]

 

I work in healthcare...

 

This seems to be affecting old/ immuno compromised people the most( like everything else) These people bluntly are going to die at some point in time sooner then their more resistant counterparts. Not much at this point any of us can do otherwise. The panic is irrational.

 

I'm sorry, you work in healthcare?  As in caring of people who are ill, with the goal of them getting better?

 

There are goals and there are realities. The reality is if your old and/or immuno compromised your more likely to die if you get the corona virus. Without a cure what exactly would you like a healthcare worker to do in that situation?

 

the normal flu season effect is similar (frankly, I believe worse) to this covid19 effect, which leads one to wonder why we have been so cavalier about the normal flu, which unlike covid19 doesnt have a name and a mysterious and perhaps insidious origin...oh that's right, because most of the fatalities occur to people who are old, and our society mostly disrespects elders and aged.  we have a misplaced hysteria re covid19...the hysteria should be directed to why we dont care about normal flu fatalities

 

BINGO. Could not have typed it better myself!

[orthopa]

 

I work in healthcare...

 

This seems to be affecting old/ immuno compromised people the most( like everything else) These people bluntly are going to die at some point in time sooner then their more resistant counterparts. Not much at this point any of us can do otherwise. The panic is irrational.

 

I'm sorry, you work in healthcare?  As in caring of people who are ill, with the goal of them getting better?

 

There are goals and there are realities. The reality is if your old and/or immuno compromised your more likely to die if you get the corona virus. Without a cure what exactly would you like a healthcare worker to do in that situation?

 

I know that the internet does not convey tone well, so please believe me when I say that I mean this in the most sincere, non-offense way - I think you should find another line of work outside of the healthcare industry.  If your default response whenever someone is ill with an unknown illness or an illness in which there is no cure is to suggest that there's nothing to do, then perhaps trying to help those in need of help is your calling.

 

I agree regarding tone via the internet but thats beside the point. That being said I would have you take a hard look at what the current healthcare system has to offer those with flu who become compromised secondary to super infection or "collateral damage" either metabolic, organ etc.  If you were aware you might become very alarmed by friend.  Many of those who die due to the flu are not able to helped, nothing can be done. They have irreversible organ/lung damage, do not physically have the immune response needed to fight the virus or would only survive in a vegetative state. My initial assumption is your aware there is no cure for covid19 or the the flu, correct? Again, since there is no cure, outside of supportive measures what exactly would you like a healthcare provider to do?

 

I think this is a good segway into why many on social media, the TV, radio, etc are alarmed by the muted response by health care officials, gov, CDC, etc. Outside of universal precautions and quarantining people THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO!!!!!!!!

 

As cherzeca said above. Where is all the outrage regarding the flu? We deal with that every year and 600-800k people die a year!!! Where is the outrage? The compassion? The love????

[Castanza]

 

I work in healthcare...

 

This seems to be affecting old/ immuno compromised people the most( like everything else) These people bluntly are going to die at some point in time sooner then their more resistant counterparts. Not much at this point any of us can do otherwise. The panic is irrational.

 

I'm sorry, you work in healthcare?  As in caring of people who are ill, with the goal of them getting better?

 

There are goals and there are realities. The reality is if your old and/or immuno compromised your more likely to die if you get the corona virus. Without a cure what exactly would you like a healthcare worker to do in that situation?

 

I know that the internet does not convey tone well, so please believe me when I say that I mean this in the most sincere, non-offense way - I think you should find another line of work outside of the healthcare industry.  If your default response whenever someone is ill with an unknown illness or an illness in which there is no cure is to suggest that there's nothing to do, then perhaps trying to help those in need of help is your calling.

 

I agree regarding tone via the internet but thats beside the point. That being said I would have you take a hard look at what the current healthcare system has to offer those with flu who become compromised secondary to super infection or "collateral damage" either metabolic, organ etc.  If you were aware you might become very alarmed by friend.  Many of those who die due to the flu are not able to helped, nothing can be done. They have irreversible organ/lung damage, do not physically have the immune response needed to fight the virus or would only survive in a vegetative state. My initial assumption is your aware there is no cure for covid19 or the the flu, correct? Again, since there is no cure, outside of supportive measures what exactly would you like a healthcare provider to do?

 

I think this is a good segway into why many on social media, the TV, radio, etc are alarmed by the muted response by health care officials, gov, CDC, etc. Outside of universal precautions and quarantining people THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO!!!!!!!!

 

As cherzeca said above. Where is all the outrage regarding the flu? We deal with that every year and 600-800k people die a year!!! Where is the outrage? The compassion? The love????

 

Not to mention a vaccine would only be what 50% effective for HEALTHY individuals. People don't get it as I said earlier. Rapid compounding spread is inevitable.

[hillfronter83]

Not to mention a vaccine would only be what 50% effective for HEALTHY individuals. People don't get it as I said earlier. Rapid compounding spread is inevitable.

 

This is what seems to be happening. There isn't much people can do unless you are like Chinese government that can order people to sit on their asses for two months at home. Maybe cancelling some meetings, events, etc which will have a short term negative impact on economy. But to put number of deaths so far in perspective, outside of China, about 200 people died. Even if there are cover ups and let's say the number is 10 times bigger. But this is still less than number of people dies from traffic accident A DAY! It's the panic that causes more problem, such as this:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-01/chinese-man-sentenced-to-die-for-murders-at-virus-roadblock

 

This the effect of social media age: people are glued to their device and are getting news 24/7. We just can't help ourselves. A few weeks ago, it was climate change gal, then it's killing of Iranian general...

In a month or so, people will eventually get bored and get on with their life...

[Mephistopheles]

 

I work in healthcare...

 

This seems to be affecting old/ immuno compromised people the most( like everything else) These people bluntly are going to die at some point in time sooner then their more resistant counterparts. Not much at this point any of us can do otherwise. The panic is irrational.

 

I'm sorry, you work in healthcare?  As in caring of people who are ill, with the goal of them getting better?

 

There are goals and there are realities. The reality is if your old and/or immuno compromised your more likely to die if you get the corona virus. Without a cure what exactly would you like a healthcare worker to do in that situation?

 

I know that the internet does not convey tone well, so please believe me when I say that I mean this in the most sincere, non-offense way - I think you should find another line of work outside of the healthcare industry.  If your default response whenever someone is ill with an unknown illness or an illness in which there is no cure is to suggest that there's nothing to do, then perhaps trying to help those in need of help is your calling. 

 

Lol

 

I agree with the sentiment that the old and immunocompromised are the worst affected by this virus, and that many of them will die from this, and that's reality. There is no treatment, is that hard to understand?

 

orthopa, I'm sure you're doing great work in the healthcare industry :)

 

P.s., I am a doctor

 

 

[John Hjorth]

WHO Sit Report 44.

 

The whole situation in the US and how it has evolved over time is certainly concerning, no doubt about that, ref. what has already been discussed in this topic.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

From a humanitarian point of view, now please try to look at the following numbers & figures :

 

Nepal :      Confirmed cases : 1, Deaths : 0. [Population : 29 M [Source]],

Sri Lanka: Confirmed cases : 1, Deaths : 0 [Population : 21 M [Source]], &

India :      Confirmed cases : 6, Deaths : 1 [Population : 1,376 M [Source]].

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

Do you have any trust in the India numbers?

What are my fellow board members, located in India [, or with family and/or friends in India] saying about this?

[karthikpm]

India's probably underreporting and undertesting

only 1/3 of deaths in India are certified

However, they're up to 30 cases now

Lots of panic in Delhi. schools are closed etc ( may be all rioting related )

[undervalued]

 

I work in healthcare...

 

This seems to be affecting old/ immuno compromised people the most( like everything else) These people bluntly are going to die at some point in time sooner then their more resistant counterparts. Not much at this point any of us can do otherwise. The panic is irrational.

 

I'm sorry, you work in healthcare?  As in caring of people who are ill, with the goal of them getting better?

 

There are goals and there are realities. The reality is if your old and/or immuno compromised your more likely to die if you get the corona virus. Without a cure what exactly would you like a healthcare worker to do in that situation?

 

I know that the internet does not convey tone well, so please believe me when I say that I mean this in the most sincere, non-offense way - I think you should find another line of work outside of the healthcare industry.  If your default response whenever someone is ill with an unknown illness or an illness in which there is no cure is to suggest that there's nothing to do, then perhaps trying to help those in need of help is your calling. 

 

Lol

 

I agree with the sentiment that the old and immunocompromised are the worst affected by this virus, and that many of them will die from this, and that's reality. There is no treatment, is that hard to understand?

 

orthopa, I'm sure you're doing great work in the healthcare industry :)

 

P.s., I am a doctor

 

To be able to die peacefully will be nice in that case w/o accruing a lot of debt for survivors.

 

Ps., I am NOT a doctor nor a healthcare worker.

[Viking]

ok. Now that more testing is happening we will start to finally get some data on what the current situation is.

 

2:08 p.m. Washington state cases reaches 70

The positive cases of novel coronavirus in Washington state rose from 39 to 70 in the last 24 hours, according to the state's Department of Health.

 

There were no new deaths reported. Ten of the 11 deaths in the U.S. were in Washington state.

[Kaegi2011]

I agree regarding tone via the internet but thats beside the point. That being said I would have you take a hard look at what the current healthcare system has to offer those with flu who become compromised secondary to super infection or "collateral damage" either metabolic, organ etc.  If you were aware you might become very alarmed by friend.  Many of those who die due to the flu are not able to helped, nothing can be done. They have irreversible organ/lung damage, do not physically have the immune response needed to fight the virus or would only survive in a vegetative state. My initial assumption is your aware there is no cure for covid19 or the the flu, correct? Again, since there is no cure, outside of supportive measures what exactly would you like a healthcare provider to do?

 

I think this is a good segway into why many on social media, the TV, radio, etc are alarmed by the muted response by health care officials, gov, CDC, etc. Outside of universal precautions and quarantining people THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO!!!!!!!!

 

As cherzeca said above. Where is all the outrage regarding the flu? We deal with that every year and 600-800k people die a year!!! Where is the outrage? The compassion? The love????

 

Fair enough.  I believe you that there may be little to be done for those who are so far gone.  What I found distasteful was the lack of apparently concern for those and others who could be saved.  However, as someone mentioned above, there needs to be some emotional distance that the doctor keeps, and I can certainly believe that.  So maybe I just have the wrong projection on the level of empathy that medical professionals *should* have vs. what's reality.  Either way, this has been educational in terms of how inadequately we are prepared for this (and other diseases), so we're all along for the ride. 

 

Thanks for the engagement.  Again, I meant no disrespect before. 

[Viking]

The question now is at what point does Washington State start to quarantine the hardest hit areas? This seems to be the play book in other regions in the world that lost control of the virus. The economic cost right now is too large for any public official to make the call. As everyone starts to understand the gravity of the situation (i.e. the confirmed cases skyrocket higher) they eventually will have no choice. At some point the fear of the health carnage will become greater than the current fear of the economic carnage.

 

My guess is the quarantine will likely happen in stages. Right now they are telling anyone who can work from home to do so. High risk people should stay at home. Soon all schools will be closed. And then finally we will get to a full on quarantine for a couple of weeks.

 

Again, i am basing the comments above on how other parts of the world where a cluster broke out handled the crisis. China, Northern Italy, South Korea and Iran. We will soon be adding Kirkland Washington to this list.

 

And there is a chance that the US has discovered a new way to manage this crisis in Washington State where a quarantine is not required. One possibility is for the US to decide to let the virus spread from Washington State into all states to speed up the process of infecting their populations and getting through this crisis quickly. Yes, the death toll will be much higher with this approach but it is only a flu after all; mother nature at work :-) And as the President said last night the death rate is not 3.4% but closer to 1% (his hunch). Americans now feel much better. I would expect flights to China, Northern Italy, Korea and Iran to start up again any day.

[Gregmal]

I agree regarding tone via the internet but thats beside the point. That being said I would have you take a hard look at what the current healthcare system has to offer those with flu who become compromised secondary to super infection or "collateral damage" either metabolic, organ etc.  If you were aware you might become very alarmed by friend.  Many of those who die due to the flu are not able to helped, nothing can be done. They have irreversible organ/lung damage, do not physically have the immune response needed to fight the virus or would only survive in a vegetative state. My initial assumption is your aware there is no cure for covid19 or the the flu, correct? Again, since there is no cure, outside of supportive measures what exactly would you like a healthcare provider to do?

 

I think this is a good segway into why many on social media, the TV, radio, etc are alarmed by the muted response by health care officials, gov, CDC, etc. Outside of universal precautions and quarantining people THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO!!!!!!!!

 

As cherzeca said above. Where is all the outrage regarding the flu? We deal with that every year and 600-800k people die a year!!! Where is the outrage? The compassion? The love????

 

Fair enough.  I believe you that there may be little to be done for those who are so far gone.  What I found distasteful was the lack of apparently concern for those and others who could be saved.  However, as someone mentioned above, there needs to be some emotional distance that the doctor keeps, and I can certainly believe that.  So maybe I just have the wrong projection on the level of empathy that medical professionals *should* have vs. what's reality.  Either way, this has been educational in terms of how inadequately we are prepared for this (and other diseases), so we're all along for the ride. 

 

Thanks for the engagement.  Again, I meant no disrespect before.

 

Can you imagine trying to do emergency surgery on an infant? Or telling a young person they have cancer? Its fucked up but you need to kind of be mentally deranged or semi sociopathtic to live with it and still do your job well without it bogging you down. Its kind of like working on Wall Street. Except you're actually doing something useful.

[John Hjorth]

Greg,

 

<Off topic>

 

Seriously, your posts have been growing on me nicely within the last few months. I think I understand you now much, much better than just a few months ago. Again, seriously. [No place for fun or something like that here.]

 

</Off topic>

[Viking]

Greg,

 

<Off topic>

 

Seriously, your posts have been growing on me nicely within the last few months. I think I understand you now much, much better than just a few months ago. Again, seriously. [No place for fun or something like that here.]

 

</Off topic>

 

+1

[Gregmal]

Im a complicated fellow, what can I say?

[John Hjorth]

Im a complicated fellow, what can I say?

 

[ ; - ) ]

[Viking]

For the people who believe this virus is not a big deal, imagine if you or a loved one was on this cruise ship? We know that a cruise ship is the perfect breeding ground for the virus. The death rate for those who were infected on the cruise ship in Japan was 10% (i think). I am sure the 2,500 people on this cruise ship are going through hell right now. Coronovirus is a global health emergency; the sooner people figure it out the better it will be managed.

 

U.S. official warns there isn’t capacity to quarantine all passengers from marooned cruise ship

 

Ken Cuccinelli, the acting deputy secretary of homeland security, said Thursday that there is inadequate capacity at health-care facilities in the United States to accommodate bringing large numbers of cruise ship passengers ashore for quarantine, leading lawmakers to question whether authorities would again seek to quarantine coronavirus cases on a ship held offshore.

 

The Grand Princess, which carries about 2,500 passengers, is marooned off California after a previous passenger died of coronavirus and workers aboard displayed symptoms.

 

- https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/05/coronavirus-live-updates/

[LC]

What bothers me is the cynicism. That mentality does not solve problems or drive progress towards making things better.

 

What I hear is: "vaccines are hardly effective, we don't know how to measurably limit viral transmission, the two-week incubation period reduces usefulness of testing, only the very old are fatally at risk - therefore there is nothing we can do."

 

So forget even bothering to mobilize government resources to make test kits widely available, forget quarantine responses, forget expanding care facilities and resources, forget even trying to develop a vaccine...

 

The real problem is the group of invertebrates looking for 1-ft hurdles to jump over. And if all they see are 6-ft hurdles, well then just "toss it in the 'too hard' pile".

 

Well, some problems cannot just be tossed in the too hard pile and must be dealt with despite being a 6-ft hurdle. This is why we have things like government resources - to tackle the problems that nobody else wants to. And so those who say, "eh, fuck it!", and those who encourage the government to do the same, that type of behavior is not even worth a second glance.

[John Hjorth]

For the people who believe this virus is not a big deal, imagine if you or a loved one was on this cruise ship? We know that a cruise ship is the perfect breeding ground for the virus. The death rate for those who were infected on the cruise ship in Japan was 10% (i think). I am sure the 2,500 people on this cruise ship are going through hell right now. Coronovirus is a global health emergency; the sooner people figure it out the better it will be managed.

 

U.S. official warns there isn’t capacity to quarantine all passengers from marooned cruise ship

 

Ken Cuccinelli, the acting deputy secretary of homeland security, said Thursday that there is inadequate capacity at health-care facilities in the United States to accommodate bringing large numbers of cruise ship passengers ashore for quarantine, leading lawmakers to question whether authorities would again seek to quarantine coronavirus cases on a ship held offshore.

 

The Grand Princess, which carries about 2,500 passengers, is marooned off California after a previous passenger died of coronavirus and workers aboard displayed symptoms.

 

- https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/05/coronavirus-live-updates/

 

Viking,

 

Please read my "rat lab" analysis of that particular situation about that cruise ship in Japan here. The realized "confirmed cases" [infection]  rate ended up at ~ 19 percent, the death rate ended up at ~ 0.16 percent. [Edit : So the death rate among the infected was [0.16 % / 19%] ~0.85 percent.]

 

I think that today, everyone then on board has left the ship.

[Castanza]

What bothers me is the cynicism. That mentality does not solve problems or drive progress towards making things better.

 

What I hear is: "vaccines are hardly effective, we don't know how to measurably limit viral transmission, the two-week incubation period reduces usefulness of testing, only the very old are fatally at risk - therefore there is nothing we can do."

 

So forget even bothering to mobilize government resources to make test kits widely available, forget quarantine responses, forget expanding care facilities and resources, forget even trying to develop a vaccine...

 

The real problem is the group of invertebrates looking for 1-ft hurdles to jump over. And if all they see are 6-ft hurdles, well then just "toss it in the 'too hard' pile".

 

Well, some problems cannot just be tossed in the too hard pile and must be dealt with despite being a 6-ft hurdle. This is why we have things like government resources - to tackle the problems that nobody else wants to. And so those who say, "eh, fuck it!", and those who encourage the government to do the same, that type of behavior is not even worth a second glance.

 

That's called reading into what people have said. Nobody is saying to lack empathy or not move forward with testing, quarantine, etc. It's sad that individuals have died from this. Nobody wants that especially in their own social circle. One of Greg's points earlier in this thread was correct when stating how a lot of people are using this situation as an outlet for political frustration. It's not unwarranted, but there is no benefit to that in the near term. Panicking solves fewer issues than having cynicism in a situation. Doctors and healthcare providers are the most cynical people I've ever met but at the same time are extremely compassionate. My wife works with babies that are the size of baseballs who have little chance of surviving. The situations are terrible and I wouldn't be able to handle it. But she has a job to do and for the most part being an effective healthcare provider means putting emotions on the back burner (most of the time).

 

At the end of the day If you're that worried about it then do what brings you peace of mind and go out as little as possible. Take precautions for your loved ones etc. Is Buffett panicking? That mofo is in the high risk category and he's out hunting!  ;D