Will S&P 500 Retest Recent Low By End of April

[Viking]

Here is your bear call for the day. I agree with Minerd’s basic thesis that the economic data will get much worse and this is not reflected in current stock prices. His worst case scenario is grim (S&P 500 falling to 500). So a fall back to 2,191 looks minor in comparison :-)

 

Wall Street star money manager says S&P 500 could plunge to 1,500 in worst case, with coronavirus fallout lingering for years

- https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wall-street-star-money-manager-says-sp-500-could-plunge-to-1500-in-worst-case-with-coronavirus-fallout-lingering-for-years-2020-04-05

 

Minerd explained it this way:

 

BUT ONE THING I WOULD CAUTION IS THAT IF EARNINGS CONTINUE TO FALL AS I EXPECT THEM TO, S&P EARNINGS COULD GET AS LOW AS $100 THIS YEAR. GIVEN THE TRADITIONAL MARKET MULTIPLE OF ABOUT 15 TIMES EARNINGS, THAT WOULD PUT THE S&P AT ABOUT 1,500, STILL ABOUT A THOUSAND POINTS LOWER THAN WE ARE TODAY. CERTAINLY, WE ARE DOWN FROM THE RECENT PEAK OF 3,386, SO WE’VE MADE A BIG MOVE, BUT WE STILL HAVE A PRETTY GOOD MOVE TO MAKE. INVESTORS SHOULD PROBABLY FOCUS THEIR ACTIVITY ON BONDS AT THIS POINT.

 

Minerd said his outlook has darkened considerably further on the economy because the data has been worse than he had estimated.

[meiroy]

 

The problem with just looking at the fundamentals is assuming that the market is normal these days. It's not. The Fed has opened the flood gates. Free liquidity to all. It's like the people are starving and the Queen is distributing free cakes and champagne to all the people. Or something like that. Or maybe it's reflexivity. Because, what are you going to invest in if you see the markets going up, RE? What are the other options? 

 

 

[Uccmal]

It won't be tomorrow.

Dow Futures up over 700 points.

 

I quite frankly have no idea what to make of this for the immediate future.  Could be a dead cat bounce.  I have always been over 100% invested, for 24 years.  I will ride the elevator up or down, but I much prefer up. 

 

My living expenses are 2/3 covered by dividends, most are unlikely to be cut.  For the other 1/3; I have years worth of credit lines I can tap, and deflation is causing expenses to go down.  So far I have saved about $4500 from cancelled travel, not eating out, and lessons of various sorts.  If summer camps for the kids, and summer travel is cancelled we are looking at another several thousand.  Renovation jobs are on hold.  We were planning to spend 30,000 or so on some "needed" outdoor work, but there is a moratorium on new construction work.  And my own home reno will go on hold in a week or two when I can no longer get in the store to "see" the parts I need.  Curbside has limited utility for me. 

 

Multiply my reduced expenditures out throughout the population and you get a major recession followed, or concurrent to a market rout.  The travel, camp, and lessons costs are gone forever.  I wont be travelling anywhere but Canada until at least Christmas (My insurance wont cover it until this is over).  The reno costs are kicked down the road for me, but for people on reduced or no pay there are now years out. 

 

Further out from me, people are unable to get new credit cards, mortgage rates are up, house sales are gone.  And people don't think this is going to affect stock markets?  Most people live paycheck to paycheck, and are unprepared for any interruption.  The government stimulus is just a bandage. 

 

 

 

 

[Gregmal]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-worst-is-behind-us-with-the-most-attractive-risk-reward-in-years-it-is-time-to-buy-stocks-morgan-stanley-says-2020-04-06?mod=mw_latestnews

 

Thats one take. Then you go to the Bargain Meter on VIC and still 43% of people see "very few" ideas lol. If you cant find anything to buy right now, you have no business investing your own money... A lot of things are cheap, but theres also a lot to be cautious about.

[rb]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-worst-is-behind-us-with-the-most-attractive-risk-reward-in-years-it-is-time-to-buy-stocks-morgan-stanley-says-2020-04-06?mod=mw_latestnews

 

Thats one take. Then you go to the Bargain Meter on VIC and still 43% of people see "very few" ideas lol. If you cant find anything to buy right now, you have no business investing your own money... A lot of things are cheap, but theres also a lot to be cautious about.

Really The S&P is about 10% above what it was in Dec 2008 with a global pandemic going on. More people not working than at any time that any of us can remember.  Nobody really sure of how it all shakes out. But this is most attractive opportunity to buy stocks in years? How many years exactly is that?

[Gregmal]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-worst-is-behind-us-with-the-most-attractive-risk-reward-in-years-it-is-time-to-buy-stocks-morgan-stanley-says-2020-04-06?mod=mw_latestnews

 

Thats one take. Then you go to the Bargain Meter on VIC and still 43% of people see "very few" ideas lol. If you cant find anything to buy right now, you have no business investing your own money... A lot of things are cheap, but theres also a lot to be cautious about.

Really The S&P is about 10% above what it was in Dec 2008 with a global pandemic going on. More people not working than at any time that any of us can remember.  Nobody really sure of how it all shakes out. But this is most attractive opportunity to buy stocks in years? How many years exactly is that?

 

Its just an article, with some interesting points to. Why dont any of the "valuation forecasts" ever make an effort to account for the absolutely stunning amount of money being pumped into the system? The dinosaurs waiting for a 10-15x PE on trough S&P earnings are clueless. How can we even compare a 15x S&P multiple now to a historical norm when during that "norm" you could get 5-6% on deposits sitting in a savings account?

[rb]

So with people not working and stunning amounts pumped into the system it's all good. Buy, buy, buy.

 

Turns out markets really like love socialism. Screw Trump and Biden. Just pluck Bernie for President, put AOC over at Treasury, the S&P must be worth at least 5,000.

[Gregmal]

If that’s how you want to look at it, sure I guess but that’s not really what’s being stated. I think it’s a much simpler equation having to do with supply and demand and assets of high quality will certainly command a higher than “normal” multiple. That’s true at the top and also at the bottom.

[tede02]

This rally makes no sense to me. I don't have high confidence in predicting the market direction, but I am highly confident that both the pandemic and economic numbers are going to worsen for weeks if not months. My totally subjective opinion is market hasn't fully priced in the coming bad news outside of select sectors like financials and REITs.

[valueinvestor]

This rally makes no sense to me. I don't have high confidence in predicting the market direction, but I am highly confident that both the pandemic and economic numbers are going to worsen for weeks if not months. My totally subjective opinion is market hasn't fully priced in the coming bad news outside of select sectors like financials and REITs.

 

It kind of makes sense to me. As Gregmal mentioned it's supply and demand.

 

Although I've taken the supply and demand into account - to tede02's point, what's stopped me from going "all in" is earnings. There will definitely be a drop in earnings, and anyone who thinks that business can be flipped on like a switch after a month of closure - probably never operated a business before.

 

From a supply/demand standpoint it's seems quite cheap, but it's hard to see earnings grow from the stimulus. However, it's also easy to see multiples expanding due to this stimulus despite lack of earning growth - especially when banks are close to charging you to hold your money.

 

It's hard to put a number, but if I had a gun to my head, I would say 60% towards not retesting lows and 40% to retesting lows. Simply because the US Government is a formidable force, and even if earnings drop (it's temporary), and the economic engine of this country is robust.

 

Also there's the question of how the world will look like with negative rates and possibilities of more pandemics (you think this will be the last outbreak?) - this will have a definite affect on the economy.

 

However, I don't really think about it so much as an investor, but it is "fun" to think about from an intellectual standpoint (and horrendous to think about from a human POV).

[Gregmal]

Strictly for fun, but helpful in shaping an outlook... when the market hit 3400 or whatever in February. Pause. Stay there and ask yourself what we'd be trading at if you took that exact same situation and applied the rate cuts, stimulus, etc.. 4000? Higher? Then look at where the market fell to. So adjustments can be put into perspective but simply stating, "last month or last year we were here! and now we're only here" misses the mark in so many ways and completely ignores context.

[SHDL]

An interesting development today was that Janet Yellen went on TV and suggested that Congress should probably allow the Fed to buy stocks at some point:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/06/yellen-says-the-fed-doesnt-need-to-buy-equities-now-but-congress-should-reconsider-allowing-it.html

 

This may have scared some bears out of their short positions.

[Castanza]

An interesting development today was that Janet Yellen went on TV and suggested that Congress should probably allow the Fed to buy stocks at some point:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/06/yellen-says-the-fed-doesnt-need-to-buy-equities-now-but-congress-should-reconsider-allowing-it.html

 

This may have scared some bears out of their short positions.

 

Didn't RuleNumberOne call this?

[Viking]

This rally makes no sense to me. I don't have high confidence in predicting the market direction, but I am highly confident that both the pandemic and economic numbers are going to worsen for weeks if not months. My totally subjective opinion is market hasn't fully priced in the coming bad news outside of select sectors like financials and REITs.

 

It kind of makes sense to me. As Gregmal mentioned it's supply and demand.

 

Although I've taken the supply and demand into account - to tede02's point, what's stopped me from going "all in" is earnings. There will definitely be a drop in earnings, and anyone who thinks that business can be flipped on like a switch after a month of closure - probably never operated a business before.

 

From a supply/demand standpoint it's seems quite cheap, but it's hard to see earnings grow from the stimulus. However, it's also easy to see multiples expanding due to this stimulus despite lack of earning growth - especially when banks are close to charging you to hold your money.

 

It's hard to put a number, but if I had a gun to my head, I would say 60% towards not retesting lows and 40% to retesting lows. Simply because the US Government is a formidable force, and even if earnings drop (it's temporary), and the economic engine of this country is robust.

 

Also there's the question of how the world will look like with negative rates and possibilities of more pandemics (you think this will be the last outbreak?) - this will have a definite affect on the economy.

 

However, I don't really think about it so much as an investor, but it is "fun" to think about from an intellectual standpoint (and horrendous to think about from a human POV).

 

The rally today does not surprise me at all. People simply have no idea what economic growth is going to be in the coming year and in 2021. No idea what the employment situation is going to be. So the stock market is going to continue swing wildly. I expect the economic news to get much worse and to likely last longer (absent some breakthrough news on a treatment for the virus). So i am happy to continue to sell the rally and buy the dip (i am back today to 100% cash - i love +6% one day rallies :-)

 

Everything i read from China, Taiwan, South Korea and Singapore is recovery is a very, very slow process. On Bloomberg today a doctor (John Hopkins) said the recovery will be like a dimmer light. The light will be turned on only very slowly. And there will be times when you need to turn the light back down (due to a spike in virus cases) and bring back more stringent social distancing measures. He said this recently happened in Singapore. 

 

But the US is likely 6-8 weeks away from starting to turn the light up even to a low dim. This is because you have to wait not until the curve peaks in most areas, but until the number of new cases is very low and the US is nowhere near this situation. And before you turn up the light you have to have a very robust testing and contact tracing capability. And at some point, to move to the next stage, the US will need to have national coordination (not the haphazard response we have seen so far).

 

The US is fighting the easy part of the battle right now. Essentially, going to lock down was obvious and easy decision and eventually they did that (after trying pretty much everything else). The next part of the battle with the virus is where things get much more difficult. It requires a high degree of national coordination and leadership. Countries like China, Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan have been able to partially pull it off. My guess is Germany will Be the first large economy in Europe to slowly turn the light on. My guess, based on what i have seen the past 10 weeks, is the US will make lots of mistakes along the way and this will slow their move to the next phase and eventual recovery.

 

People will be looking at virus numbers and will see ‘peak’ and ‘we are flattening the curve’ as good news and job done. Stocks will rally big time (like today). Instead, this just means you are through the first phase with the hard work just starting. Over the next 4-6 weeks we are going to see the worst economic news in US history (that is not hyperbole). And where we go after is completely unknown. Bulls are predicting a V recovery. Good luck with that.

 

PS: by far the biggest source of ‘new money’ coming in to stocks over the past 8 years or so was, i believe, corporate stock buybacks. That will be a material reduction in demand for stocks moving forward.

[SHDL]

An interesting development today was that Janet Yellen went on TV and suggested that Congress should probably allow the Fed to buy stocks at some point:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/06/yellen-says-the-fed-doesnt-need-to-buy-equities-now-but-congress-should-reconsider-allowing-it.html

 

This may have scared some bears out of their short positions.

 

Didn't RuleNumberOne call this?

 

He may have. I’m not too surprised but I’m pretty sure this was the first time I heard a Fed insider officially say this.

[Viking]

An interesting development today was that Janet Yellen went on TV and suggested that Congress should probably allow the Fed to buy stocks at some point:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/06/yellen-says-the-fed-doesnt-need-to-buy-equities-now-but-congress-should-reconsider-allowing-it.html

 

This may have scared some bears out of their short positions.

 

Didn't RuleNumberOne call this?

 

He may have. I’m not too surprised but I’m pretty sure this was the first time I heard a Fed insider officially say this.

 

Great interview (from someone who is not trying to sell something). Yellin also said unemplyment is likely currently running at 12 or 13% and moving higher. She also expects Q2 GDP to be down 30%. These are a ‘holy shit’ numbers. Worse than the Great Depression. Stocks averages are trading today where they were trading in January of 2019. Stock investors sure are pessimistic right now and the coming economic carnage is definitely priced in to stocks (that is my attempt at sarcasm :-)

[valueinvestor]

Strictly for fun, but helpful in shaping an outlook... when the market hit 3400 or whatever in February. Pause. Stay there and ask yourself what we'd be trading at if you took that exact same situation and applied the rate cuts, stimulus, etc.. 4000? Higher? Then look at where the market fell to. So adjustments can be put into perspective but simply stating, "last month or last year we were here! and now we're only here" misses the mark in so many ways and completely ignores context.

 

Without the pandemic, strictly for fun, I could see it going to 4000. Again a 20% increase in multiples is not unheard of especially looking at other economies.

 

The rally today does not surprise me at all. People simply have no idea what economic growth is going to be in the coming year and in 2021. No idea what the employment situation is going to be. So the stock market is going to continue swing wildly. I expect the economic news to get much worse and to likely last longer (absent some breakthrough news on a treatment for the virus). So i am happy to continue to sell the rally and buy the dip (i am back today to 100% cash - i love +6% one day rallies :-)

 

Everything i read from China, Taiwan, South Korea and Singapore is recovery is a very, very slow process. On Bloomberg today a doctor (John Hopkins) said the recovery will be like a dimmer light. The light will be turned on only very slowly. And there will be times when you need to turn the light back down (due to a spike in virus cases) and bring back more stringent social distancing measures. He said this recently happened in Singapore. 

 

But the US is likely 6-8 weeks away from starting to turn the light up even to a low dim. This is because you have to wait not until the curve peaks in most areas, but until the number of new cases is very low and the US is nowhere near this situation. And before you turn up the light you have to have a very robust testing and contact tracing capability. And at some point, to move to the next stage, the US will need to have national coordination (not the haphazard response we have seen so far).

 

The US is fighting the easy part of the battle right now. Essentially, going to lock down was obvious and easy decision and eventually they did that (after trying pretty much everything else). The next part of the battle with the virus is where things get much more difficult. It requires a high degree of national coordination and leadership. Countries like China, Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan have been able to partially pull it off. My guess is Germany will Be the first large economy in Europe to slowly turn the light on. My guess, based on what i have seen the past 10 weeks, is the US will make lots of mistakes along the way and this will slow their move to the next phase and eventual recovery.

 

People will be looking at virus numbers and will see ‘peak’ and ‘we are flattening the curve’ as good news and job done. Instead, this just means you are through the first phase with the hard work just starting. Over the next 4-6 weeks we are going to see the worst economic news in US history (that is not hyperbole). And where we go after is completely unknown. Bulls are predicting a V recovery. Good luck with that.

 

Sounds responsible and your reasoning makes sense.

 

However, the only thing that's stop me from being 100% cash by selling the rally and buying into the dip is 80% of my returns in my experience comes from 4-10 days, so I don't have faith in myself to effectively go in and out of the market.

 

Secondly, at least in my case, my information flow does not compete with the big firms, so when I feel like it's safe to invest, that's when imho is too late.

 

Hence, I think having a good cash cushion may be advisable, while investing in companies that are cheap on an absolute basis. At least for me, it helped me stay in the green for this year (not by much), while many other are in the red.

 

An interesting development today was that Janet Yellen went on TV and suggested that Congress should probably allow the Fed to buy stocks at some point:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/06/yellen-says-the-fed-doesnt-need-to-buy-equities-now-but-congress-should-reconsider-allowing-it.html

 

This may have scared some bears out of their short positions.

 

Didn't RuleNumberOne call this?

 

He may have. I’m not too surprised but I’m pretty sure this was the first time I heard a Fed insider officially say this.

 

Great interview (from someone who is not trying to sell something). Yellin also said unemplyment is likely currently running at 12 or 13% and moving higher. She also expects Q2 GDP to be down 30%. These are a ‘holy shit’ numbers. Worse than the Great Depression. Stocks averages are trading today where they were trading in January of 2019. Stock investors sure are pessimistic right now and the coming economic carnage is definitely priced in to stocks (that is my attempt at sarcasm :-)

 

For the most part - I agree, however I'm sure you'd agree that there were some opportunities that had those numbers priced into the stock.

[Viking]

Valueinvestor, i appreciate and largely agree with your comments. There are lots of strategies people can employ today that let them sleep well at night and earn an acceptable return :-)

 

My read is we are still in the early innings of this pandemic with lots of volatility yet to come. Capital preservation is still my main consideration; as i get a better handle on what is to come i will get more aggressive with equities (or if equities retest lows). You make a great point that most equity gains happen over just a couple of days... food for thought :-)

[Cigarbutt]

An interesting development today was that Janet Yellen went on TV and suggested that Congress should probably allow the Fed to buy stocks at some point:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/06/yellen-says-the-fed-doesnt-need-to-buy-equities-now-but-congress-should-reconsider-allowing-it.html

This may have scared some bears out of their short positions.

Didn't RuleNumberOne call this?

He may have. I’m not too surprised but I’m pretty sure this was the first time I heard a Fed insider officially say this.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fed-yellen-purchases/yellen-says-fed-purchases-of-stocks-corporate-bonds-could-help-in-a-downturn-idUSKCN11Z2WI

From 2016. Then some say that the high priests of finance have no forecasting power..

[valueinvestor]

Valueinvestor, i appreciate and largely agree with your comments. There are lots of strategies people can employ today that let them sleep well at night and earn an acceptable return :-)

 

My read is we are still in the early innings of this pandemic with lots of volatility yet to come. Capital preservation is still my main consideration; as i get a better handle on what is to come i will get more aggressive with equities (or if equities retest lows). You make a great point that most equity gains happen over just a couple of days... food for thought :-)

 

Likewise - always love reading different insights. I frequently change my mind, especially when the facts change. This virus is a huge unknown and it's not unthinkable that it may trigger a great depression event.

 

So I think it's may be well-advisable for people to tread careful, not deal with certainties but possibilities, because anything can happen in the early innings of a Yankees-Red Sox game.

[hyten1]

not saying i am totally on board yet. but covid19 is an event with an end date, i think we can all agree on that. at some point covid19 will be done and the world will be back to normal and heading higher.  I think it pretty much common knowledge that in the  immediate future, the economic numbers is going to be bad, that is not a mystery. is it possible the market has already look pass it?

 

its kind of like investing in Amzn before it was profitable (it was losing money, investing for the future, everyone knows that) but the market has look pass it, that is why it was trading at a high PE multiple.

 

Think of the market as AMZN in 2010 or 2015 (didn't look at exactly which years etc.) everyone knows its losing money, but the market is projecting in the future it will be making money and in a big way. So in parallel. Everyone knows the economy is going down the dump in the near future due to covid19, but covid19 will end which if you think about it this is a higher probability event than the conviction at the time that AMZN will be making money in the future (which is the present).

 

so its possible the the market will be trading at a higher PE for 2020 in anticipating for the E to go up in 2021 :)

 

 

please be nice, just food for thought :)

 

 

EDIT: here saudi invest in curise line, a great example. saudi doesn't care about cruise line losing money in 2020 or even maybe 2021. they have look pass this covid19 and in anticipating when all this covid19 ends they want to be in the cruise line business. because fundamentally there is nothing wrong with the curise line business (we can argue about that), its not a melting ice cube.

 

https://business.financialpost.com/investing/saudi-arabia-has-bought-8-stake-in-worlds-biggest-cruise-operator-carnival-for-bargain-basement-price

 

the market can be thinking the same thing, we all know covid19 will cause a temporary hit to earnings, but fundamentally the world/market is not a melting ice cube, its looking beyond covid19.

 

[Viking]

not saying i am totally on board yet. but covid19 is an event with an end date, i think we can all agree on that. at some point covid19 will be done and the world will be back to normal and heading higher.  I think it pretty much common knowledge that in the  immediate future, the economic numbers is going to be bad, that is not a mystery. is it possible the market has already look pass it?

 

its kind of like investing in Amzn before it was profitable (it was losing money, investing for the future, everyone knows that) but the market has look pass it, that is why it was trading at a high PE multiple.

 

Think of the market as AMZN in 2010 or 2015 (didn't look at exactly which years etc.) everyone knows its losing money, but the market is projecting in the future it will be making money and in a big way. So in parallel. Everyone knows the economy is going down the dump in the near future due to covid19, but covid19 will end which if you think about it this is a higher probability event than the conviction at the time that AMZN will be making money in the future (which is the present).

 

so its possible the the market will be trading at a higher PE for 2020 in anticipating for the E to go up in 2021 :)

 

 

please be nice, just food for thought :)

 

 

EDIT: here saudi invest in curise line, a great example. saudi doesn't care about cruise line losing money in 2020 or even maybe 2021. they have look pass this covid19 and in anticipating when all this covid19 ends they want to be in the cruise line business. because fundamentally there is nothing wrong with the curise line business (we can argue about that), its not a melting ice cube.

 

https://business.financialpost.com/investing/saudi-arabia-has-bought-8-stake-in-worlds-biggest-cruise-operator-carnival-for-bargain-basement-price

 

the market can be thinking the same thing, we all know covid19 will cause a temporary hit to earnings, but fundamentally the world/market is not a melting ice cube, its looking beyond covid19.

 

I agree with everything you said :-) However, predicting the next 2 years of Amazon’s development is very different from predicting how the current pandemic is going to play out over the next 2 years (from a health and economic perspective). Also implicit in your analysis is a perspective of what letter the coming recession will take: V, U or L. Today i would place the following probabilities:

V = 75%

U = 20%

L = <5%

 

If V then stocks are reasonably cheap at todays prices (although i think it still likely we retest the S&P 500 low of 2,191. If U stocks are expensive (1,700 for S&P might happen). If L then S&P will likely grind well below 1,500 over many years.

 

Janet Yellin provided a clue as to what to watch: how long the current economic situation lasts. This of course will be determined primarily by what the virus does moving forward. And how effectively governments respond. For example, if the virus comes back in the fall in a mutated form (something that is very possible) and if this mutated version kills off larger number of people including young people then my L estimate will jump considerably. If we discover a vaccine or treatments then my V estimate will jump considerably. Or the virus could be with us for 18 to 24 months or longer and we do not find a vaccine...

 

Bottom line, to steal a line from valueinvestor the facts will inform my investment decision.

[SHDL]

An interesting development today was that Janet Yellen went on TV and suggested that Congress should probably allow the Fed to buy stocks at some point:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/06/yellen-says-the-fed-doesnt-need-to-buy-equities-now-but-congress-should-reconsider-allowing-it.html

This may have scared some bears out of their short positions.

Didn't RuleNumberOne call this?

He may have. I’m not too surprised but I’m pretty sure this was the first time I heard a Fed insider officially say this.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fed-yellen-purchases/yellen-says-fed-purchases-of-stocks-corporate-bonds-could-help-in-a-downturn-idUSKCN11Z2WI

From 2016. Then some say that the high priests of finance have no forecasting power..

 

Thx - this makes the rally look even more suspicious..

[Spekulatius]

An interesting development today was that Janet Yellen went on TV and suggested that Congress should probably allow the Fed to buy stocks at some point:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/06/yellen-says-the-fed-doesnt-need-to-buy-equities-now-but-congress-should-reconsider-allowing-it.html

 

This may have scared some bears out of their short positions.

 

Didn't RuleNumberOne call this?

 

He may have. I’m not too surprised but I’m pretty sure this was the first time I heard a Fed insider officially say this.

 

So than the government can exert control on many US companies which is a giant step towards socialism. I said this before, but I think Bernie wins without being nominated.

[Broeb22]

 

 

So than the government can exert control on many US companies which is a giant step towards socialism. I said this before, but I think Bernie wins without being nominated.

 

It sounds like what you're describing is more like fascism than socialism. Socialism is only socialism if the profits the businesses generate go to the population at large. If they just go to further establishing and enriching the current status quo, that's a lot more like fascism than socialism.