NKLA - Nikola

[Jurgis]

$20B for essentially a name and a bunch of hand-waving is crazy.

 

But hey

 

I should be up a billion dollars!

 

--- kudos to ValueAct

[Liberty]

Fisker Automotive was too early... If it had come out with a few renderings and hand-made prototypes today instead of 10 years ago, it'd be worth at least $30bn instead of going bankrupt.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisker_Automotive

[Spekulatius]

Where I was going is that these guys said they would outsource production. There are contract manufacturers but the only one with the capability of building a full size pickup that I know of is Magna Steyr. Even other significant contract manufacturers like Pininfarina probably don't have the capabilities to deliver on such a project.

 

My question was is if I'm missing anything here. Is there a contract manufacturer in the NAFTA region with Magna's capabilities?

 

You're not thinking like asset-lite second-level thinker.

 

They can outsource the outsourcing! Then they could provide outsourced outsourced truck as a service.

 

It's all hydrogen anyway! Hint, hint: what do you get when you burn hydrogen? Spoiler: hot air

 

More like hot water.

[Guest roark33]

This really has serious potential to end up like Theranos. 

 

I wish someone would write the Bad Blood book while it is happening instead of after. 

[Guest roark33]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-17/nikola-s-founder-exaggerated-the-capability-of-his-debut-truck?utm_source=google&utm_medium=bd&cmpId=google&sref=cQBAEOvQ

 

The real shame about this is when people like Milton aren't stopped and thrown in jail, it only encourages more people to do this.  Milton sold $70m worth of stock in the SPAC merger, so even if this thing goes completely belly up, he will walk away with roughly 30m (after taxes and civil penalties:))

 

 

[A Dhandho Investor]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-17/nikola-s-founder-exaggerated-the-capability-of-his-debut-truck?utm_source=google&utm_medium=bd&cmpId=google&sref=cQBAEOvQ

 

The real shame about this is when people like Milton aren't stopped and thrown in jail, it only encourages more people to do this.  Milton sold $70m worth of stock in the SPAC merger, so even if this thing goes completely belly up, he will walk away with roughly 30m (after taxes and civil penalties:))

 

Strange that nobody seems to see the similarities between the trading in NKLA and Tesla.

 

To me, Milton seems like Elon on steroids.

 

The funny thing is that even Tesla longs believe NKLA is overvalued but Tesla is still undervalued one way or another  :o

[Liberty]

To me, Milton seems like Elon on steroids.

 

What has he built?

[JRM]

To me, Milton seems like Elon on steroids.

 

What has he built?

 

A platform to raise capital.

[arcube]

If he was Elon on steroids, we will already be on Mars. The fact that you compare the two speaks a lot about how you can be so negative on Tesla. Now you have two ideas to short. Go for it, you might end up even!

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-17/nikola-s-founder-exaggerated-the-capability-of-his-debut-truck?utm_source=google&utm_medium=bd&cmpId=google&sref=cQBAEOvQ

 

The real shame about this is when people like Milton aren't stopped and thrown in jail, it only encourages more people to do this.  Milton sold $70m worth of stock in the SPAC merger, so even if this thing goes completely belly up, he will walk away with roughly 30m (after taxes and civil penalties:))

 

Strange that nobody seems to see the similarities between the trading in NKLA and Tesla.

 

To me, Milton seems like Elon on steroids.

 

The funny thing is that even Tesla longs believe NKLA is overvalued but Tesla is still undervalued one way or another  :o

[A Dhandho Investor]

To me, Milton seems like Elon on steroids.

 

What has he built?

 

A platform to raise capital.

 

Exactly.

 

"Nikola founder exaggerated the Capability of His Debut Truck" -> Elon literally went on a Hollywood stage with fake solar roof tiles so that the Solarcity bailout could go through.

 

Trevor Milton seems a better salesman than Elon (he talks more smoothly) and already follows in Elon's footsteps of harassing the media: https://twitter.com/nikolatrevor/status/1273428216259072000?s=21

 

Maybe he can create a website to rate journalists for credibility called Pravduh?

 

@Liberty, do you think it is a coincidence that Elon leaked an email that Tesla was ready for volume production for the semi truck and then on Twitter said they were still looking for a location where to produce it?

 

 

[Liberty]

To me, Milton seems like Elon on steroids.

 

What has he built?

 

A platform to raise capital.

 

Exactly.

 

"Nikola founder exaggerated the Capability of His Debut Truck" -> Elon literally went on a Hollywood stage with fake solar roof tiles so that the Solarcity bailout could go through.

 

Trevor Milton seems a better salesman than Elon (he talks more smoothly) and already follows in Elon's footsteps of harassing the media: https://twitter.com/nikolatrevor/status/1273428216259072000?s=21

 

Maybe he can create a website to rate journalists for credibility called Pravduh?

 

@Liberty, do you think it is a coincidence that Elon leaked an email that Tesla was ready for volume production for the semi truck and then on Twitter said they were still looking for a location where to produce it?

 

I get that both have exaggerated claims. But Elon has also built a bunch of companies and things that do work. What has the other guy built?

[stahleyp]

https://youtu.be/xN8tUQoZg_s?t=453

 

"The generation investing now... they don't care about revenue."

 

[A Dhandho Investor]

To me, Milton seems like Elon on steroids.

 

What has he built?

 

A platform to raise capital.

 

Exactly.

 

"Nikola founder exaggerated the Capability of His Debut Truck" -> Elon literally went on a Hollywood stage with fake solar roof tiles so that the Solarcity bailout could go through.

 

Trevor Milton seems a better salesman than Elon (he talks more smoothly) and already follows in Elon's footsteps of harassing the media: https://twitter.com/nikolatrevor/status/1273428216259072000?s=21

 

Maybe he can create a website to rate journalists for credibility called Pravduh?

 

@Liberty, do you think it is a coincidence that Elon leaked an email that Tesla was ready for volume production for the semi truck and then on Twitter said they were still looking for a location where to produce it?

 

I get that both have exaggerated claims. But Elon has also built a bunch of companies and things that do work. What has the other guy built?

 

He has built a 20b company with no revenues. Just like Elon knows, the narrative is everything.

[Liberty]

He has built a 20b company with no revenues. Just like Elon knows, the narrative is everything.

 

So the answer is, they aren't the same at all.

[A Dhandho Investor]

Here's a 1,5h interview with Trevor Milton: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/758369/4605602-episode-35-trevor-milton

 

edit - @ Liberty - from Wikipedia:

 

Prior to working at Nikola Motor Company, Milton was the CEO and founder of dHybrid Systems LLC, a natural gas storage technology company which was acquired by America's largest steel providers, Worthington Industries, Inc. [4]

 

Prior to dHybrid Systems LLC, he was the CEO and founder of dHybrid, Inc., which recalibrated diesel engines to run off both natural gas and diesel to reduce emissions. [4]

 

Prior to dHybrid Inc., he was the CEO and founder of upillar.com an e-commerce site, and CEO and founder of SGS Alarms, an ADT authorized dealer.[4]

 

In September 2019, Forbes assessed Milton's net worth to be at least $1 billion, as he owns at least 40% of his company, and it is valued at about $3 billion.[1]

[Guest roark33]

The earnings call was one of the worst I have ever heard. 

[Broeb22]

https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1731289/000110465920102820/tm2030359d1_8k.htm

 

So Nikola is using GM to supply GM's battery technology to Nikola and also using GM to manufacture?

 

If it looks like a fraud, and smells like a fraud, it's probably a fraud.

[Liberty]

https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1731289/000110465920102820/tm2030359d1_8k.htm

 

So Nikola is using GM to supply GM's battery technology to Nikola and also using GM to manufacture?

 

If it looks like a fraud, and smells like a fraud, it's probably a fraud.

 

Outsource everything except the brand. Good deal if you can get it, I guess  ;D

[A Dhandho Investor]

https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1731289/000110465920102820/tm2030359d1_8k.htm

 

So Nikola is using GM to supply GM's battery technology to Nikola and also using GM to manufacture?

 

If it looks like a fraud, and smells like a fraud, it's probably a fraud.

 

Curious to hear your thoughts in what sense you consider this to be a fraud?

 

Did you know for instance that Nio also outsources key parts of its manufacturing process? Nio purchases its own raw materials, they build their own tooling and they design the vehicles - but they don't actually manufacture their own cars. Rather, JAC, a government-owned OEM manufactures their vehicles for them, on a contract basis, at their own factories, using their own workers (supervised by NIO managers).

[gfp]

Does the GM agreement cover any of the tractor / big rig type vehicles or just the Badger pickup truck?  Does Nikola have a partner to build their commercial trucks?

[BG2008]

This is a great tweet of the situation

 

[Broeb22]

https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1731289/000110465920102820/tm2030359d1_8k.htm

 

So Nikola is using GM to supply GM's battery technology to Nikola and also using GM to manufacture?

 

If it looks like a fraud, and smells like a fraud, it's probably a fraud.

 

Curious to hear your thoughts in what sense you consider this to be a fraud?

 

Did you know for instance that Nio also outsources key parts of its manufacturing process? Nio purchases its own raw materials, they build their own tooling and they design the vehicles - but they don't actually manufacture their own cars. Rather, JAC, a government-owned OEM manufactures their vehicles for them, on a contract basis, at their own factories, using their own workers (supervised by NIO managers).

 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rdanedavis/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/klynk/

 

So you're saying these guys are going to design what you're describing?

 

Comparing them to Tesla's team, they are way below-average.

 

[Dalal.Holdings]

https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1731289/000110465920102820/tm2030359d1_8k.htm

 

So Nikola is using GM to supply GM's battery technology to Nikola and also using GM to manufacture?

 

If it looks like a fraud, and smells like a fraud, it's probably a fraud.

 

Curious to hear your thoughts in what sense you consider this to be a fraud?

 

Did you know for instance that Nio also outsources key parts of its manufacturing process? Nio purchases its own raw materials, they build their own tooling and they design the vehicles - but they don't actually manufacture their own cars. Rather, JAC, a government-owned OEM manufactures their vehicles for them, on a contract basis, at their own factories, using their own workers (supervised by NIO managers).

 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rdanedavis/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/klynk/

 

So you're saying these guys are going to design what you're describing?

 

Comparing them to Tesla's team, they are way below-average.

 

Don’t worry—with GM’s help, they’ll surely come up with a winning product customers want! Chevy and Caddy didn’t work, so now it’s Nikola!

[arcube]

Such is a condition of GM- It has to participate in a new no name fuckery to save it's own skin. Nothing else works, let's try this. How the Management Team is saving their skin with these one offs and no clear conviction at the cost of shareholders is just astounding.

 

https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1731289/000110465920102820/tm2030359d1_8k.htm

 

So Nikola is using GM to supply GM's battery technology to Nikola and also using GM to manufacture?

 

If it looks like a fraud, and smells like a fraud, it's probably a fraud.

 

Curious to hear your thoughts in what sense you consider this to be a fraud?

 

Did you know for instance that Nio also outsources key parts of its manufacturing process? Nio purchases its own raw materials, they build their own tooling and they design the vehicles - but they don't actually manufacture their own cars. Rather, JAC, a government-owned OEM manufactures their vehicles for them, on a contract basis, at their own factories, using their own workers (supervised by NIO managers).

 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rdanedavis/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/klynk/

 

So you're saying these guys are going to design what you're describing?

 

Comparing them to Tesla's team, they are way below-average.

 

Don’t worry—with GM’s help, they’ll surely come up with a winning product customers want! Chevy and Caddy didn’t work, so now it’s Nikola!

[A Dhandho Investor]

https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1731289/000110465920102820/tm2030359d1_8k.htm

 

So Nikola is using GM to supply GM's battery technology to Nikola and also using GM to manufacture?

 

If it looks like a fraud, and smells like a fraud, it's probably a fraud.

 

Curious to hear your thoughts in what sense you consider this to be a fraud?

 

Did you know for instance that Nio also outsources key parts of its manufacturing process? Nio purchases its own raw materials, they build their own tooling and they design the vehicles - but they don't actually manufacture their own cars. Rather, JAC, a government-owned OEM manufactures their vehicles for them, on a contract basis, at their own factories, using their own workers (supervised by NIO managers).

 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rdanedavis/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/klynk/

 

So you're saying these guys are going to design what you're describing?

 

Comparing them to Tesla's team, they are way below-average.

 

So you're saying that this is a fraud because you believe that they will not be able to do what I'm describing?

 

Not that it is on-topic, but I guess that compared to the Tesla team involved in the Cybertruck design, the complete auto design industry looks indeed like noobs.

 

Don’t worry—with GM’s help, they’ll surely come up with a winning product customers want! Chevy and Caddy didn’t work, so now it’s Nikola!

 

Not that it is super relevant in the discussion, but I will put it here anyway. https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/world/general-motors-ventures-mini-car-becomes-chinas-most-sold-ev-surpassing-teslas-model-3-5813011.html

 

I really have no dog in this fight re NKLA, but funny to see how Tesla fans seem to dunk on other EV/hydrogen/whatever ventures while saying that they encourage EV competition because Tesla is light years ahead..