Ballinvarosig Investors Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 So basically the agreement has been watered down to GM agreeing to sell hydrogen fuel cells to Nikola. How is this anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadMan24 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I don't know who needs to hear this, but in the future whenever you hear "Hydrogen car" or "Hydrogen vehicle" the words that should immediately come to mind are "fraud" and "snake oil". It isn't just an engineering problem like with EVs, Hydrogen isn't a good idea for passenger vehicles even in theory and no fancy body style or slick powerpoint presentation is ever going to change that. Overgeneralizations like this are what get people in trouble in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I don't know who needs to hear this, but in the future whenever you hear "Hydrogen car" or "Hydrogen vehicle" the words that should immediately come to mind are "fraud" and "snake oil". It isn't just an engineering problem like with EVs, Hydrogen isn't a good idea for passenger vehicles even in theory and no fancy body style or slick powerpoint presentation is ever going to change that. Overgeneralizations like this are what get people in trouble in the first place. Sometimes, yes, but the laws of physics are what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadMan24 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 I don't know who needs to hear this, but in the future whenever you hear "Hydrogen car" or "Hydrogen vehicle" the words that should immediately come to mind are "fraud" and "snake oil". It isn't just an engineering problem like with EVs, Hydrogen isn't a good idea for passenger vehicles even in theory and no fancy body style or slick powerpoint presentation is ever going to change that. Overgeneralizations like this are what get people in trouble in the first place. Sometimes, yes, but the laws of physics are what they are. Enlighten me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 In short, the reason Hydrogen is a terrible idea is that the Hydrogen is used as an energy carrier to power an electric motor. It is identical to an Electric Car, but instead of just charging the battery from a electric outlet, it charges the same battery in the following convoluted way - First, you need to get hydrogen. This is usually made in some factory somewhere fracking natural gas. Or maybe electrolysis (energy inefficient). Second, you gotta ship this stuff to a "gas station". Third, you take your car to said gas station and fill up. You need a gas tank for that in the car. Said tank is highly pressurized and extremely dangerous. Fourth, you have to have a gizmo in the car that converts the hydrogen to energy. This gizmo is really expensive. All that just to turn an electric car into a "hydrogen car". Also, none of this process is particularly "green". You want green? Get a bicycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 The links below are a decent write up of the basics. The whole cycle from extracting, compressing, storing, transporting, recompressing, decompressing (requires heating), temporary storage of electricity in vehicle still requires battery or supercaps, all takes up more energy than you save. With everything factored in it isn't even as efficient and good for the environment as a good modern diesel engine is. Couple that with the fact that it is dangerous, and complicated (far more parts and systems than a battery EV) and I just can't see it ever being commonly used for vehicles. https://ssj3gohan.tweakblogs.net/blog/11470/why-fuel-cell-cars-dont-work-part-1 https://ssj3gohan.tweakblogs.net/blog/11493/why-fuel-cell-cars-dont-work-part-2 https://ssj3gohan.tweakblogs.net/blog/11556/why-fuel-cell-cars-dont-work-part-3 https://ssj3gohan.tweakblogs.net/blog/11572/why-fuel-cell-cars-dont-work-part-4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreign Tuffett Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 I had a dream last night in which NKLA opened up huge this morning. The good news is that the stock is down big again this morning, so the dream was apparently no more realistic than my recurring dream about watching "Top Gun" with Tom Cruise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreign Tuffett Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 On a more serious note, as expected NKLA trading volume is very high this morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roark33 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 I never thought this was going to crash to sub-10, but that move from 19 to 38 over the past two weeks was crazy. Still about an 8b company now, but that's just par for the course today in terms of wildly inflated EV companies (see FCEL).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadMan24 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 In short, the reason Hydrogen is a terrible idea is that the Hydrogen is used as an energy carrier to power an electric motor. It is identical to an Electric Car, but instead of just charging the battery from a electric outlet, it charges the same battery in the following convoluted way - First, you need to get hydrogen. This is usually made in some factory somewhere fracking natural gas. Or maybe electrolysis (energy inefficient). Second, you gotta ship this stuff to a "gas station". Third, you take your car to said gas station and fill up. You need a gas tank for that in the car. Said tank is highly pressurized and extremely dangerous. Fourth, you have to have a gizmo in the car that converts the hydrogen to energy. This gizmo is really expensive. All that just to turn an electric car into a "hydrogen car". Also, none of this process is particularly "green". You want green? Get a bicycle. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The elephant in the room is why Toyota, Honda, and GM continue to invest in said technology. It also ignores the possible breakthroughs in synthesizing hydrogen in a more economical and environmentally acceptable way. Distribution seems like a great tailwind for oil and gas companies, though how Nikola plays a part in this is anyone's guess. It seems like all fluff at the moment. Lastly, a hydrogen car is not likely, but a hydrogen vehicle of enough mass and specificity is. The Army using a GM Colorado ZRH proves that prototypes are in the wild and it is being looked at from not just a usability standpoint, but logistically as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 The big auto companies have to stay somewhat in all technologies that get even a little bit of media attention because for them, it's an advertising technique and an insurance policy. They are not serious about it financially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 And you can't rule out the stupidity of future government regulations. Ethanol makes absolutely no financial nor environmental sense either, yet we are all driving around with it in our gas tanks. Anything with even the possibility of being required, or incentives twisted so badly that it makes financial sense, needs to be kept on the radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreign Tuffett Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Just noticed Nikola back at $25. I suppose market participants have, once again, forgotten that this company straddles the line between outright fraud and just being an idea. I also saw that, as I predicted in November, Worthington sold all its NKLA stock. https://www.barrons.com/articles/an-early-nikola-investor-sells-all-its-stock-51610727082 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compoundinglife Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Just noticed Nikola back at $25. I suppose market participants have, once again, forgotten that this company straddles the line between outright fraud and just being an idea. I also saw that, as I predicted in November, Worthington sold all its NKLA stock. https://www.barrons.com/articles/an-early-nikola-investor-sells-all-its-stock-51610727082 Rumors that TSLA is in talks to acquire them per Twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Just noticed Nikola back at $25. I suppose market participants have, once again, forgotten that this company straddles the line between outright fraud and just being an idea. I also saw that, as I predicted in November, Worthington sold all its NKLA stock. https://www.barrons.com/articles/an-early-nikola-investor-sells-all-its-stock-51610727082 Rumors that TSLA is in talks to acquire them per Twitter. lol... thought it would be a WSB-led LBO first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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