Mohnish Pabrai Q&A at Indiana University.

[Lollapalooza]

I read lots of envy in this thread. I guess success does attract that a lot... 

if you dont give him credit or you're genuinely not interested in what he says and "his latest gimmicks" why do you waste 1h of your time watching?

Unlike you and me, he steps out of anonymity and does not shy away from sharing his ideas and latest learnings with others.

I find it disrespectful specially when you know he used to come to this forum. Personally I appreciate his openness and I feel I've shortened much of my learning curve by listening to him and others that arent afraid to come out in public with some of their 'contrarian' philosophies.

[Thelilyinvestor]

7 hours ago, Lollapalooza said:

I read lots of envy in this thread. I guess success does attract that a lot... 

if you dont give him credit or you're genuinely not interested in what he says and "his latest gimmicks" why do you waste 1h of your time watching?

Unlike you and me, he steps out of anonymity and does not shy away from sharing his ideas and latest learnings with others.

I find it disrespectful specially when you know he used to come to this forum. Personally I appreciate his openness and I feel I've shortened much of my learning curve by listening to him and others that arent afraid to come out in public with some of their 'contrarian' philosophies.

Completely agree Lollapalooza,

Everyone is free to like him or not, but we can all admire his intention of trying to be a better investor every day.

Personally, I am learning so much on his last few talks and I am very "bullish" on his results over the next couple of years... but time will tell!

Long Shinoken!

[MattR]

11 hours ago, Lollapalooza said:

I read lots of envy in this thread. I guess success does attract that a lot... 

if you dont give him credit or you're genuinely not interested in what he says and "his latest gimmicks" why do you waste 1h of your time watching?

Unlike you and me, he steps out of anonymity and does not shy away from sharing his ideas and latest learnings with others.

I find it disrespectful specially when you know he used to come to this forum. Personally I appreciate his openness and I feel I've shortened much of my learning curve by listening to him and others that arent afraid to come out in public with some of their 'contrarian' philosophies.

I find him a bit gimmicky, but that doesnt detract from the value he provides with his talks. If I stopped learning from every person I find slighly gimmicky the learning opportunities would be severely limited.  I am a big fan of his and a big fan of his picks (especially Shinoken, wouldn't have found that awesome business otherwise), and while it seems that he always finds new buckets to play with and touts them as the best bucket he ever found, I still learn more from him than from pretty much every other investor that aren't called Buffett, Munger or Li Lu.

[stahleyp]

Well, I didn't watch this video so I guess I didn't waste an hour of time.

I know...I know, if you question the prophets of the cult of "value" investing. you're burned at the stake. 

Listen, I used to follow Pabrai quite a bit (even read one of his books). I've seen a lot of his videos. Remember when he was preaching about cloning? How'd did that work for people? How many people got blown up from following him into ZINC? 

Am I envious? I don't think so. I mean, I'm not the one who made $50 million or whatever underperforming the market but that's okay (ie from investors). Just because people are skeptical, does not mean they are "envious." 

I know people act like he shares all of this information but ever try to post one of his letters? Amazing how he's very "open" about everything except his own performance, eh?

But he's pretty smooth and a good salesman and has given a lot to charity, so I'll give him credit where credit is due. 

 

[Gregmal]

Everyone has an obligation to be responsible for themselves. If you have a talent, you are entitled to monetize it. If you have a need, it is in your interest to satisfy that need. Pabrai, like many others, is simply the bi product of a good salesman realizing that most folks are financially illiterate. Nothing more. Its really not that hard to do either. I find it incredible how easily impressed the common folk is by financial folks whom have "a lot" of money and some self aggrandizing story about how they got it. 

[Rod]

49 minutes ago, Gregmal said:

Everyone has an obligation to be responsible for themselves. If you have a talent, you are entitled to monetize it. If you have a need, it is in your interest to satisfy that need. Pabrai, like many others, is simply the bi product of a good salesman realizing that most folks are financially illiterate. Nothing more. Its really not that hard to do either. I find it incredible how easily impressed the common folk is by financial folks whom have "a lot" of money and some self aggrandizing story about how they got it. 

I don’t disagree, but why do you think Munger has chosen to be friends with him?

[jobyts]

From what I've seen, people get envious to other people who they constantly interact. And the comparison usually happens only with people that are more or less comparable to our own level. You don't get envious on people who you know only through internet.

People may get envious to their colleague or a friend who made a killing on say, Tesla stocks. But most of us don't get envious to Elon Musk. No one even bothers to compare.

[jobyts]

1 minute ago, Rod said:

I don’t disagree, but why do you think Munger has chosen to be friends with him?

May be because Pabrai is a good man? Also probably impressed by the charity initiative Pabrai has done. Pabrai is not just donating money to a charity, he is actively behind running it efficiently. 

[randomep]

18 minutes ago, jobyts said:

May be because Pabrai is a good man? Also probably impressed by the charity initiative Pabrai has done. Pabrai is not just donating money to a charity, he is actively behind running it efficiently. 

personally, I am very suspicious of someone who markets himself well, and the good perception that results from this marketing.  When he donated 750k to a lunch with Buffett, oh boy did he milk it more than if he used it to advertise, when his results are good, boy do we know about it. He puts himself out there so much that of course we want to know his results, but he only brags about his results in good years.  When they are bad, we have to ask each other in hushed tones for his results because he threatens to sue anyone who puts his report out there.   It is extremely disingenuous for Pabrai to hide his poor results behind the excuse it is against SEC regulations when every other hedge fund is not afraid to do put their reports on the internet.  Someone who does that is not a good man in my books.

 

I don't disagree that there is a lot of envy, maybe I am guilty of that also. BUT it is not envy of his results. It is the fact that his research and stockpicking is very poor for someone who gets so much publicity. It is the same type of visceral feeling when I hear justin beber, he can't sing and I can't stand the fact that he is a star and filthy rich! Maybe I am jealous of Justin Beber too!

 

I haven't heard from his talks very much, but the one big thing I learned from him (because he is out there so much) is to not be married to some idea, and to not be so sloppy in ones research, basically not be so arrogant to try to beat the market doing less work than your peers.

 

 

 

 

[Gregmal]

1 hour ago, Rod said:

I don’t disagree, but why do you think Munger has chosen to be friends with him?

Eh I don't pick my friends based on their investing performance, do you?

[thowed]

18 hours ago, Gregmal said:

Eh I don't pick my friends based on their investing performance, do you?

Ha ha!

[RetroRanger]

What has the beginning to do with IT?  He Talks about that very often. In the early days he made 1-2 Million Out of 100k. Idont know what to reply,If that Track record over 17 years telling you he is No good then , Just Go further 

What is your track record over 17 years? 

Edited April 28, 2021 by RetroRanger

[n.r98]

This whole thread has gone from moderately informative to just downright toxic. I suggest we end this whole conversation; Pabrai is just a fella clawing his way through the woods like all of us. Let's mind our own business. 

[Longnose]

20 minutes ago, n.r98 said:

This whole thread has gone from moderately informative to just downright toxic. I suggest we end this whole conversation; Pabrai is just a fella clawing his way through the woods like all of us. Let's mind our own business. 

Agreed, Like him or not he's a good guy and hes done a lot more positive things for the world than negative. 

[stahleyp]

14 minutes ago, Longnose said:

Agreed, Like him or not he's a good guy and hes done a lot more positive things for the world than negative. 

He's "earned" $50 million from his investors (ie they would have been better off in an index fund) and has given how much to charity? Is the world really better off than if he stayed in IT or something? I don't see how. I'm sure he's better off for it though. So if by world, you meant his world, then I agree.

[stahleyp]

 

43 minutes ago, RetroRanger said:

What has the beginning to do with IT?  He Talks about that very often. In the early days he made 1-2 Million Out of 100k. Idont know what to reply,If that Track record over 17 years telling you he is No good then , Just Go further 

What is your track record over 17 years? 

I haven't managed money for others for 17 years. I'm also not a prominent hedge fund manager who spouts on and on about ideas but gets upset if someone posts a letter. Even Einhorn, who has sucked worse than Pabrai I think  (and is more well known) lets his letters "leak." Nor do I have a license plate that says "CMPD By 27" or whatever.

Besides, what does my track record matter as far as if Pabrai is an elite investor or not? I fail to see how that proves or disproves his ability?

Look, virtually every "value" investor killed it in the same time from that Pabrai killed it. Is it that he just got lucky or is he good? If he was that good, why has his success not translated as such? I see how luck can describe his track record but I don't really see skill describing it. 

[RetroRanger]

You must have overread that the topic is "closed". If you dont Like Pabrai --> Just ignore those threads , so easy!

[Gregmal]

58 minutes ago, stahleyp said:

 

I haven't managed money for others for 17 years. I'm also not a prominent hedge fund manager who spouts on and on about ideas but gets upset if someone posts a letter. Even Einhorn, who has sucked worse than Pabrai I think  (and is more well known) lets his letters "leak." Nor do I have a license plate that says "CMPD By 27" or whatever.

Besides, what does my track record matter as far as if Pabrai is an elite investor or not? I fail to see how that proves or disproves his ability?

Look, virtually every "value" investor killed it in the same time from that Pabrai killed it. Is it that he just got lucky or is he good? If he was that good, why has his success not translated as such? I see how luck can describe his track record but I don't really see skill describing it. 

Im as skeptical of money sucking WS types as any, and more often than not agree with you, but I do sense you are getting a little too into the weeds as far as Pabrai. If people want to pay him, thats there prerogative. Do you think a psychiatrist is worth $300 an hour? I call big time bullshit on that too. Basically psychic /palm reader level BS fortified in terms of marketing by a "degree" from an overpriced university.....but if people want to pay for that... by all means. Capitalism lets folks taker advantage of that. I have no problem there.

That said, I do agree with you in regards to there being nothing special about value investors who did well when all value investors did well. I dont know if or how Pabrai fits into that, but a good investor adapts and evolves. Guys like Einhorn arent great investors because they refuse to adapt and their egos/pride are more important to them than making money. If that wasn't the case they wouldnt insist on fighting the tape for half a decade or more. 

[stahleyp]

Just now, Gregmal said:

Im as skeptical of money sucking WS types as any, and more often than not agree with you, but I do sense you are getting a little too into the weeds as far as Pabrai. If people want to pay him, thats there prerogative. Do you think a psychiatrist is worth $300 an hour? I call big time bullshit on that too. Basically psychic /palm reader level BS fortified in terms of marketing by a "degree" from an overpriced university.....but if people want to pay for that... by all means. Capitalism lets folks taker advantage of that. I have no problem there.

That said, I do agree with you in regards to there being nothing special about value investors who did well when all value investors did well. I dont know if or how Pabrai fits into that, but a good investor adapts and evolves. Guys like Einhorn arent great investors because they refuse to adapt and their egos/pride are more important to them than making money. If that wasn't the case they wouldnt insist on fighting the tape for half a decade or more. 

Yeah, I think you're right. I think I feel mislead by him for a while and I see so many people fawning over him that it gets on my nerves. haha

[stahleyp]

20 minutes ago, RetroRanger said:

You must have overread that the topic is "closed". If you dont Like Pabrai --> Just ignore those threads , so easy!

When one's prior thoughts are exposed as faulty, it's best to change topics.

[RetroRanger]

What is your Problem ? 

[stahleyp]

1 hour ago, RetroRanger said:

What is your Problem ? 

I don't like when people get a lot of credit for something they're probably not actually good at?

[nafregnum]

I don't invest in his funds, but I still feel grateful that Pabrai puts himself out there, because it benefited me personally:

I read The Dhando Investor and The Education of a Value Investor (Guy Spier) back in 2014 and it reawakened my dormant investing hobby.  my original Buffett + Munger fanboy status grew out of reading The Intelligent Investor in 2004, but my first attempts at picking stocks weren't so hot.  

The most useful piece of advice I've heard from Pabrai was this: Just be patient.  Fidelity did some study and figured out the most successful brokerage accounts were just the accounts of dead people and others who had forgotten their account and left it alone for many years.  Letting my winners run for years beyond my impulse to sell has made a huge difference in my results.  I know, this advice also comes from Munger and Buffett too, but I heard the Fidelity anecdote from Pabrai during one of these YouTube style videos.  

[gfp]

Not sure where to put this, but Forbes has an article about Francis Chou's Wantaai Holdings, which bought the Stonetrust Insurance company from Pabrai's Dhando Holdings. Not sure why the plan didn't work our for Monish, but would work better for Francis?  They appear to be allowed to own a bunch of equities inside the Insurance co. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobwolinsky/2021/04/29/francis-chou-wants-to-build-the-next-berkshire-hathaway/?sh=14c0a8047894

[Cigarbutt]

14 hours ago, gfp said:

Not sure where to put this, but Forbes has an article about Francis Chou's Wantaai Holdings, which bought the Stonetrust Insurance company from Pabrai's Dhando Holdings. Not sure why the plan didn't work our for Monish, but would work better for Francis?  They appear to be allowed to own a bunch of equities inside the Insurance co. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobwolinsky/2021/04/29/francis-chou-wants-to-build-the-next-berkshire-hathaway/?sh=14c0a8047894

Stonetrust is privately held so the info is incomplete but, from various public disclosures, it appears that the period under Wantaai's ownership was unusually favorable (industry-wide). Reserve development has been unusually favorable and combined ratios have been unusually low. In 2020, on a net basis, the Covid impact has been positive. You have a combination of lower earned premiums and more (excess) capital.

From regulatory report in 2016: Capital and surplus: 56.2M     earned premiums: 55M

From the Forbes article (2020 year numbers): BV (GAAP): 110M     earned premiums: 45M

https://www.fitchratings.com/research/insurance/us-workers-comp-insurance-underwriting-profits-to-normalize-in-2021-23-10-2020

Workers comp insurance is one of the rare sectors not participating in the current hard market.