U.S. vs China: Protectionism

[SharperDingaan]

"Given that there are roughly 100 million non-college-educated workers in the U.S. economy (about 70 percent of the labor force), the scale of wage losses suffered by this group translates to roughly $180 billion."

 

Sadly; there are a great many similarities between this and the low skilled Afrikaners of South Africa who created apartheid based on skin colour - to protect their privileged economic status. We're just seeing apartheid being implemented by other means.

 

It is of course a choice, implemented by regime.

South African history evidences that majority agreement is not a requirement.

 

SD

 

[Cigarbutt]

Shalab,

 

Unnecessary clarification: i don't enjoy people losing their job or dignity.

 

I read your opinion article. The author has ties with the Economic Policy Institute, which is related to unions and a "left" label. That's OK. We can still talk. The EPI seems to promote publicly financed infrastructure spending and increased taxation to the rich. Hey! This sounds like the political program in Canada! If you have in mind a balanced budget and sustainability, I may be in.

 

SharperDingaan seems to evoke some kind of economic repression and perhaps even class clash. The rising income inequality, whichever its origin, is not healthy. Maybe I should spend more time reading financial statements these days but I suggest that the issue should not be overlooked.

 

Fortunately, the Forefathers of your country put in place founding principles that, likely, will survive the next transition. We just need to come together around those principles and yes, like SD mentions, the majority may hold the balance of power.

 

One or a few guiding lights may help. Where is your Mandela?

 

I include a link which constitutes a form of rebuttal to yours.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/27/business/economy/the-mirage-of-a-return-to-manufacturing-greatness.html?mcubz=3

 

My opinion continues to be that free trade, globalization and the trade deficit with China are not responsible for your country's woes.

[Txvestor]

Seems to me like the best solution for all is to remove all trade barriers everywhere, with clearly justified exceptions.

 

..., ..., ...

 

If we judge that some groups deserve to be helped, that's fine, but help them directly..., ...

 

 

This unfortunately falls into the category of slogan solutions that theoretically exist but politically un-attainable.  Real life is not a slogan.  Will China remove all trade barriers?  Tax only Apple and Google?  Won't happen.  Unfortunately democracy is a  b....  Call it the friction in this political economy.  Sometimes there's no solution other than to slow down the leap into the utopia and take a step back.

 

I realize that. I'm talking about what I think should be aimed for, which is different from what many others believe (nationalists who believe their country/group is special because they were randomly born in it and such). Goals and slogans are different. If you don't have goals and just do whatever is politically expedient or advantageous at the moment, you just float around with the currents and rarely get anywhere.

 

I am not sure it should even be aimed for. Would you wish to accept chinese environmental standards? Food and drug standards? Should we allow the free movement of chinese medical professionals with their level of skills and training into our system? I can site many such examples. And if we do not allow some parts of the economy access but we allow others, we again create the precise social disequilibrium that we are discussing. Despite the issues we are discussing, there are a lot of things about the US that are very right, and which must be preserved. The corporations aren't that much interested in this, and are far more interested in their bottom line and expanded market access. This is a very complex issue without a simple solution. Right now however the voice of the corporations is reigning supreme over the voice of the people. That was the clear theme of this last election, whether that was Trump on the republican side or Sanders on the democraric side. You had to have blinders on to miss that.

The reality however is that the average person today is not percieving international trade to be helpful to his/her prospects. They are further frustrated that their will is not being expressed in the policy sphere. China and other trading partners will not interrupt this arrangement willingly as they obviously are net beneficiaries of the arrangement. Their goal is to let this keep rolling along for as long as they possibly can while developing teir domestic economy as quickly as their can. They are building a middle class out of it and the bigger they can build it, the easier their internal transformation will be. Same with most of our other trading partners. Free trade only works when the prosperity hence created over there then creates more demand for US goods and services. If it does not do that, then the system becomes solely about wage arbitrage by US corporations and with a net benefit to the other country. Cheaper goods at Walmart is a poor substitute for a stable and steady job. A proxy for measuring all of that is the US trade deficit.

And glaringly apparent are the very real issue of rising trade deficits, rising levels of total national indebtedness as well as other non debt obligations, income inequality and federal reserve currency debasement. Many of these things are growing faster than GDP.

These are most certainly not features of a strong economic transformation but rather a very unhealthy and dangerous one. They will invariably affect growth rates and social cohesion if they aren't doing so already.

[HJ]

..., ... Should we allow the free movement of chinese medical professionals with their level of skills and training into our system? ..., ...

 

Uh.. Maybe for certain kinds of doctors, like those who have been practicing in tier 1 cities, especially those who specialize surgeries.  The Chinese doctors would have actually performed so many more actual surgeries, and dealt with so many more different cases than their US counterparts.  The US medicine is better, the US has a more rigid formal educational requirement on the medical profession.  But on skills and experience, if you simply put a Chinese doctor into the US system, I actually might prefer the Chinese one(s).

 

Anyway, this is neither here nor there as it relates to the topic at hand.

 

The Chinese economy development over the past 40 years is partly driven by a mercantilistic trade policy, but also by simply absorbing all the technological advancement that occurred in the West for over 200 years.  The Chinese is an industrious people and have cut shrewd deals with the western government and corporations for its own benefit. 

 

All considered, which government has done the best for its people living standard wise over this past 40 years?  The Chinese one by far.  And they look at trade through a much more political lens than an economic one, which seem to me, a much more pragmatic approach geared towards solving the problem of that society.

 

Disclosure - I am a Chinese citizen who live in the US, and have had plenty of experience with both US and Chinese doctors.  On trade, I wish the US policy makers can take a more pragmatic rather than dogmatic approach for the good of its average citizens rather than just its business class.

 

 

 

 

[Txvestor]

HJ,

So good, i think most people here can see that the american people have been had. US gov't and corporations have cut bad deals for the averege american citizen. Isn't that the whole point!

As to your preference for chinese doctors in tier 1 chinese cities. With the limited knowledge I have about standards there, I wouldn't consider myself eligible to comment. That said however when one reads of Mao Zedong's Barefoot chinese doctors and their qualifications etc. I can't say it inspires much confidence. And remember average is what matters if comparing apples to apples.

Finally the point i made was not unique to the medical industry. It is much more systemic.

[Cigarbutt]

« Would like to know what caused the problems in US if it is not unfettered one way trade. Essentially the lot of an average person has improved in almost every country on the planet in the last two decades. »

 

Out of respect shalab, here is a short response.

 

Early this morning, I read something which summarizes this well.

 

https://fee.org/articles/the-core-of-liberty-is-economic-liberty/?utm_source=FEE+Email+Subscriber+List&utm_campaign=aa901e1dfc-MC_FEE_DAILY_2017_09_07&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_84cc8d089b-aa901e1dfc-107170297

 

Invariably, for these tough topics, there is a political component and maybe this is not the right forum for these discussions. I am really a fan of economic liberty and, possibly, you are right that some of it was taken away (by strangers through trade, large corporations and others) but I humbly submit that the « ordinary people » somehow have let it be taken away. I also hope that the « we » continues to be extended beyond the heartland.

 

Obstacles, compromises and maybe some abnegation along the way but J curves up for grabs.

 

Good luck to you.