txlaw Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Ouch! My one year results are -20% for the Equity fund, and -15% for the Income fund. So much for outsourcing some of my investing capital in the name of diversification. I take it you sold out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest misterstockwell Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I take it you sold out? No, not yet. I put money into this and two hedge funds. The two hedge funds are both up double digits, and the Chou investment down double digits. Luckily the hedge funds got a bigger percentage of my dollars. I'll give Francis a chance to come back. I cringe when I look at his holdings, but I will put that out of my mind and trust in his experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hester Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I would really love to know what is the obsession with OSTK from the whole Watsa crew. I personally don't get it. We all must do our part to fight the sith lord. Even if it means slowly bleeding your mutual fund's returns... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahleyp Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 As of right now, why would I buy from OSTK instead of AMZN? From my experience, AMZN has superior prices and service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OracleofCarolina Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-11/overstock-com-loses-ruling-in-suit-alleging-short-selling-by-goldman-sachs.html?cmpid=yhoo Another OSTK court case dismissed today, this one against Goldman Sachs regarding short selling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Value Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I would really love to know what is the obsession with OSTK from the whole Watsa crew. I personally don't get it. We all must do our part to fight the sith lord. Even if it means slowly bleeding your mutual fund's returns... Lol... Come on now, it can't be all about the whole deep capture story and them wanting to support Byrne in his crusade against the hedgies. I'm sure they see something in OSTK but to me that business just seems to be such a 10 foot hurdle to try and jump especially when the headwinds you're facing are called Jeff Bezos and Amazon. Kinda like the money Fairfax keeps dumping in RIMM, I don't get that one either. Is it Ontario folks sticking together this time? By the way, I took a look at the phones that Nokia and MSFT are starting to put out, and I am now ready to unilaterally call the death of RIMM. Iphone and Android were tough enough, now Nokia and MSFT just joined them. Somebody stick a fork in RIMM, they're done! All this being said I am a happy Fairfax shareholder and I have zero intention of selling my shares, probably ever! Prem has proven his worth time and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hester Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Lol... Come on now, it can't be all about the whole deep capture story and them wanting to support Byrne in his crusade against the hedgies. I think it is. Watsa has been wrong on many heavily shorted ideas where he didn't have an edge. RIMM, Sino Forest bonds. Maybe Chou has some other reason for having 12% of his fund in Overstock, he does seem to love dying retailers. To Watsa's credit he sizes the bets appropriately, and has the ability to make spectacular macro bets, not so much for Chou. I would be very comfortable betting that Chou will continue to underperform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanMaestro Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I think it is. Watsa has been wrong on many heavily shorted ideas where he didn't have an edge. RIMM, Sino Forest bonds. Maybe Chou has some other reason for having 12% of his fund in Overstock, he does seem to love dying retailers. To Watsa's credit he sizes the bets appropriately, and has the ability to make spectacular macro bets, not so much for Chou. I would be very comfortable betting that Chou will continue to underperform. I do not get it, Francis Chou mentions explicitly the buy of the decade but then goes and buys some dying retailers with all their complications. Why not burn the boats and just buy those damn banks instead of diworsifying into a sector that would suffer a lot, maybe even more so, if the economy tumbles? Why? Not that banks are not retailers (retail banking, duh) but they have higher switching costs and barriers to entry. And it is not easy for a pure play internet bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Lol... Come on now, it can't be all about the whole deep capture story and them wanting to support Byrne in his crusade against the hedgies. I think it is. Watsa has been wrong on many heavily shorted ideas where he didn't have an edge. RIMM, Sino Forest bonds. Maybe Chou has some other reason for having 12% of his fund in Overstock, he does seem to love dying retailers. To Watsa's credit he sizes the bets appropriately, and has the ability to make spectacular macro bets, not so much for Chou. I would be very comfortable betting that Chou will continue to underperform. You're quite incorrect here. The CDS idea was Francis' and Brian Bradstreet's, but Francis couldn't get approval from the Ontario Securities Commission in time to buy the credit default swaps, whereas Fairfax was able to execute on the idea right away. By the time Francis received approval, the prices of the swaps had started to rise and he could never get back in. Francis is probably one of the most intelligent investors out there, and you don't have to take my word for it...just ask Prem, Brian Bradstreet or Sam Mitchell. Investors should examine their results over a decade not a couple of years. In regards to Overstock, he's making a bet that a company with $1.1B in revenues and 25M customers can earn a 1.5-2.5% net profit margin long-term. That would undercut their competitors and value a growing business at less than 10 times earnings. Overstock's problems haven't been the business model, but a distracted CEO who seems to be in denial regarding his obligations to shareholders and his obligation to an ethical dilemma. Hopefully the recent setbacks in the lawsuits restores focus back on the business. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahleyp Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Sanj, A ton of insight as always. Thanks, man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric50 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Actually OSTK is a screaming bargain at $7... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hester Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Lol... Come on now, it can't be all about the whole deep capture story and them wanting to support Byrne in his crusade against the hedgies. I think it is. Watsa has been wrong on many heavily shorted ideas where he didn't have an edge. RIMM, Sino Forest bonds. Maybe Chou has some other reason for having 12% of his fund in Overstock, he does seem to love dying retailers. To Watsa's credit he sizes the bets appropriately, and has the ability to make spectacular macro bets, not so much for Chou. I would be very comfortable betting that Chou will continue to underperform. You're quite incorrect here. The CDS idea was Francis' and Brian Bradstreet's, but Francis couldn't get approval from the Ontario Securities Commission in time to buy the credit default swaps, whereas Fairfax was able to execute on the idea right away. By the time Francis received approval, the prices of the swaps had started to rise and he could never get back in. Francis is probably one of the most intelligent investors out there, and you don't have to take my word for it...just ask Prem, Brian Bradstreet or Sam Mitchell. Investors should examine their results over a decade not a couple of years. In regards to Overstock, he's making a bet that a company with $1.1B in revenues and 25M customers can earn a 1.5-2.5% net profit margin long-term. That would undercut their competitors and value a growing business at less than 10 times earnings. Overstock's problems haven't been the business model, but a distracted CEO who seems to be in denial regarding his obligations to shareholders and his obligation to an ethical dilemma. Hopefully the recent setbacks in the lawsuits restores focus back on the business. Cheers! I carefully worded myself by saying Watsa had the ability to make spectacular bets, which gels with what you said. I never said Chou couldn't dream any up. The mutual fund structure is too prohibitive. It's better for just plain vanilla stock pickers who ignore the macro. Overstock's problems are mostly Patrick Byrne I agree. The brand change to O.Co means the business model now has problems (maybe temporary), although that's really the fault of management, not an original business model flaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahleyp Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Does anyone know who Lily Pinarello and David McLean are? I know they are independent trustees of the fund, but they have $0 invested. Maybe they live in Canada and it wouldn't make sense, but I know there are plenty of other independent trustees that invest in funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
returnonmycapital Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Both are Canadian. One is an original investor in the Chou Funds in Canada. The other is a professional in the industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahleyp Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 thanks, return. I was just curious! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest misterstockwell Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Just got my tax paperwork from Chou. I hate it when I lose my ass on an investment and I have to pay taxes to boot. >:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookingstill Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 http://www.chouamerica.com/pdf/123112%20Chou%20America%20Funds%20Annual%20Report%20Final.pdf Annual report Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhdousa Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 New portfolio, as of 3/31/13 out from Chou Equity: Top Holdings As of March 31, 2013 Top 10 Holdings percentage of assets Resolute Forest Products Inc. 17.5% Overstock.com Inc. 16.6% Sears Holdings Corp. 4.9% MBIA Inc. 4.5% MannKind Corp. 4.3% Bank of America warrants 3.6% JPMorgan Chase warrants 3.6% ASTA Funding Inc. 2.6% UTStarcom Holdings 2.5% Wells Fargo warrants 1.6% Close to 40% cash now. Per http://portfolios.morningstar.com/fund/holdings?t=CHOEX®ion=USA&culture=en-us, he -upped his RFP stake by a 1/3 - decreased OSTK and MBI by about 10% each (right before earnings and the BAC deal, respectively....oof!) -dropped SHLD by about 40% -unloaded over 1/2 his Mannkind -dropped UTStarcom by almost 1/2 -dropped almost 1/2 his BAC warrants Any other comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racemize Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 I guess this is a different fund of his? http://whalewisdom.com/filer/chou-associates-management-inc this one has BRK at the top, but similar other positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourkid8 Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 This is his Canadian fund: Chou Associates. The previous one was Chou America Funds for americans. Tks, S I guess this is a different fund of his? http://whalewisdom.com/filer/chou-associates-management-inc this one has BRK at the top, but similar other positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhdousa Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 most recent CHOEX filing reveals 40% cash, and 24% in RFP. SHLD is down to 6% MBIA 5.7% OSTK 4.81% http://portfolios.morningstar.com/fund/holdings?t=CHOEX®ion=USA&culture=en-US Any thoughts on the RFP holding (I know there is already a very extensive thread on this company)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkhet Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 most recent CHOEX filing reveals 40% cash, and 24% in RFP. SHLD is down to 6% MBIA 5.7% OSTK 4.81% http://portfolios.morningstar.com/fund/holdings?t=CHOEX®ion=USA&culture=en-US Any thoughts on the RFP holding (I know there is already a very extensive thread on this company)? I'm confused. It looks like he added to Sears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhdousa Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 most recent CHOEX filing reveals 40% cash, and 24% in RFP. SHLD is down to 6% MBIA 5.7% OSTK 4.81% http://portfolios.morningstar.com/fund/holdings?t=CHOEX®ion=USA&culture=en-US Any thoughts on the RFP holding (I know there is already a very extensive thread on this company)? I'm confused. It looks like he added to Sears? Oops, you're right. I was confusing him with Berkowitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plato1976 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 yeah, really no idea why fairfax and chou both love RFP so much... most recent CHOEX filing reveals 40% cash, and 24% in RFP. SHLD is down to 6% MBIA 5.7% OSTK 4.81% http://portfolios.morningstar.com/fund/holdings?t=CHOEX®ion=USA&culture=en-US Any thoughts on the RFP holding (I know there is already a very extensive thread on this company)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 50centdollars Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Chou America 2013 report released. http://www.chouamerica.com/pdf/123113%20Chou%20Annual%20Report%20FINAL%20-%20Dated.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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