Charlie Munger on US Economy: Pain Not Over

[Parsad]

Easy, easy Carl!  I think what Charlie was saying is that generally, great nations usually become satiated and self-satisfied, thus become usurped by those hungrier than them.  If the US doesn't want to get its fiscal house in order and compete, it will be decided for them...and that's got nothing to do with Charlie.  Cheers!

[Guest ValueCarl]

Glen Beck? Not my kind of guy. The comedian, Stewart, too easily makes him look like a FOOL eating his own words by going to the tape.  ;D

 

There's this silly business, Clear Channel, who bends over backwards to give these silly "entertainers" like Beck or Seacrest, the lions share of their REVENUE STREAMS.

 

I'm waiting for it to go BUST for such a stupid business model where individual "personalities" are compensated excessively compared to the "distributors" and "investors" of the "mediums" which bring them to public awareness.    

 

Should you ever find me eating my own words, like Beck, I will admit it! I will chop my own head off!

 

What must happen in this country, however, is purposeful, meaningful education in partnership with business to meet the needs of this millennium. Great leadership in concert with businesses at local levels must spearhead such "CHANGE."  

 

At the same time, getting back to the basics and away from the rampant commercialism of believing everyone can be rich from the perspectives of "billionaires" must be foregone. What the hell is wrong with being average? Simplicity is a comforting tool for people to adopt.  

 

Sometimes I listen to these songs Generation Y'rs are being fed today, and think, NOT GOOD!!!!!!! "I want to be a billionaire......so fricken bad....." is one that comes to mind, like "OPRAH or the QUEEN."  ;D

 

Someone must teach these song writers and their audiences STATS!    

 

 

[dcollon]

Guys,

 

Thanks for posting the video, much better than the notes I was typing up on the airplane.  Kind of funny to see my picture on the video.  I was the one that asked about pension liabilities.  Charlie made the joke that the groupies had followed him to Ann Arbor.

 

As I orginally said it was a great two hours.

 

Sorry for not getting the notes out before the video.  I hate when work gets in the way of fun.

 

 

[Parsad]

Yeah, I was laughing when I saw you ask the question and you said you're not actually a law student at Michigan.  Then Charlie cracked his joke.  It didn't look it was a full house either.  Frankly, that may have been one of the greatest discussions I've ever seen or heard by Charlie, so I think you were very fortunate to have attended.  Wish I was there too!  Cheers!

[shalab]

dcollon, would still appreciate your notes. The interview was great - congrats for being able to be there in person and question Charlie. Does anyone know how to burn a DVD from Charlie's interview?

 

cheers!

 

[Hawk4value]

"...When you're a FAT cat, sitting high on your TREE ready to pounce down on the little canaries all around you for LUNCH, it's fairly easy to tell people to "tough it out," don't worry and don't have "ENVY" in your hearts...."

 

ValueCarl, Charlie was not always a Fat Cat. As he said, during the Depression he and his family members "toughed it out". He persevered thru the bad times and was ready when the good times came. Charlie is basically giving these young people tough love. Stop whinning about how tough it is and get out there and roll up your sleeves. Don't depend on the gov't to bail you out or "spread the wealth", as our socialist leader believes. America was built on guts, adversity and meritocracy. Charlie has it 100% correct.

[beerbaron]

Guys,

 

Thanks for posting the video, much better than the notes I was typing up on the airplane.  Kind of funny to see my picture on the video.  I was the one that asked about pension liabilities.  Charlie made the joke that the groupies had followed him to Ann Arbor.

 

As I orginally said it was a great two hours.

 

Sorry for not getting the notes out before the video.  I hate when work gets in the way of fun.

 

DCollon, the public questions in this interview were so much better then the ridiculously stupid questions asked Buffet in the interview from the other thread. WTF, they complained there was not enough train freight... he is not the operator of Burlington he's just the owner.

 

BeerBaron

[Guest ValueCarl]

I do not disagree with Mr. Charles T. Munger in principal on your point, or his point, as it was. However, there's a much greater problem which he refuses to address. As a matter of fact, mentioning Friedman and avoiding the Goldman question as being "evil" by Becky in the beginning, makes me know his interests are far more global than domestically oriented. His carry baggage and experiences in the game of finance, has brought him to such a level. It can't be pro American as result though! He's a GLOBALIST now as is Buffett!           

 

Rather than call it "ENVY" because Goldman and their political operatives fixed the board their way, and seemed to have dismantled free market capitalism during the process, what about calling it CRIMINAL?

 

As a side note, I didn't have a chance to watch the whole damn video yet, but I know he passed over the Goldman question at the front end, and suspect it may not have come up again the way I saw it progressing, but I could be wrong.

 

Once again, as I've said this repeatedly, neither him nor his partner SQUEALED like a PIGS-they should have!-over the incessant printing that took place like whiplash on the American peoples necks, rather, they blessed every event to flood our system with fiat dollars as being, "the right thing to do."   

 

More to the point remains the psychology which wasn't lost by the American people that, Wall Street, and their government officials are mostly criminal thugs who STEAL MONEY without PENALTY! That's a DISGRACEFUL MESSAGE for so many of their hard working people, who wake up each day, attempting to fight the good fight while struggling to keep their families happy, healthy and financially secure!

 

Back to that CRIMINAL ELEMENT again and "THE ILLEGAL NAKED SHORT SELLING" which GUTTED nascent enterprises, some with MERIT inside the capital markets, in order that CUT THROAT SCOUNDRELS across Wall Street could CHURN MONEY in their FAVOR with DUBIOUS METHODS at the DTCC, exchanges X the globe, and more!

 

 

Near the peak of the problem, when this great lawyer, Mr. Charles T. Munger, was asked directly about the problems with "ILLEGAL NAKED SHORT SELLING" in our system, he proceeded to say, "SHORT SELLING" is not a problem in our system!  :(

 

The problem is all about PENIS ENVY, I guess!       

 

 

     

[Buffetteer]

Charlie & Warren addressed the Goldman issue extensively at this year's AGM. Charlie also talked about it this year in Pasadena (which was covered as well by OID and can be found in their latest issue).

 

What do you think is a better alternative to the "keep your head down, work hard and don't envy your neighbour" advice, ValueCarl? Should he have said, "in tough times it's best to feel sorry for yourself, just give up and let envy fester?"

[Guest ValueCarl]

I think he should have defended the US CONSTITUTION by stating that these perpetrators, whoever and wherever they are, should be charged and tried for "TREASON" against the citizens of this once great nation. At the same time, he should support the dismantling of the central banking beast in the US who has had control of their FINANCES since 1913, and has only DESTROYED their currency value for nearly 100 years!  

 

Has Charlie forgotten his own damn DEFINITION of INSANITY!

 

If found guilty in a court of law, they should be HUNG according to the LAW.

 

This is something GLOBAL THINKERS like Charlie and Warren would never suggest, however. They must think outside the US BOX, which makes their INTERESTS COUNTER to the citizens of The United States of America, notwithstanding Buffett headlines to the contrary depicting some NEBULOUS patriotism which isn't there!  

 

That's because they've been captured by the international bankers, most importantly, those criminals at GOLDMAN SACHS!

 

Once Americans see these SCOUNDRELS hanging from POLES, they will believe in the VALIDITY of their system again, and get back to the HARD WORK ETHICS which once made them great! Lest there be no mistake about it, I include US POLITICIANS who had their hands in these SCAMS!

 

Have you forgotten the Nuremberg Trials, and its world wide psychological effects for satisfying the peoples QUEST FOR JUSTICE?

 

Seeing people who are responsible for The Peoples pain experience DEATH, will be very healthy for the US economy while extending like a contagion around the world.

 

We're all NOT O.K., as in, "I'm O.K., you're O.K."    

 

 

IMO

 

[rmitz]

I think he should have defended the US CONSTITUTION by stating that these perpetrators, whoever and wherever they are, should be charged and tried for "TREASON" against the citizens of this once great nation. At the same time, he should support the dismantling of the central banking beast in the US who has had control of their FINANCES since 1913, and has only DESTROYED their currency value for nearly 100 years!  

 

Has Charlie forgotten his own damn DEFINITION of INSANITY!

 

If found guilty in a court of law, they should be HUNG according to the LAW.

 

This is something GLOBAL THINKERS like Charlie and Warren would never suggest, however. They must think outside the US BOX, which makes their INTERESTS COUNTER to the citizens of The United States of America, notwithstanding Buffett headlines to the contrary depicting some NEBULOUS patriotism which isn't there!  

 

That's because they've been captured by the international bankers, most importantly, those criminals at GOLDMAN SACHS!

 

Once Americans see these SCOUNDRELS hanging from POLES, they will believe in the VALIDITY of their system again, and get back to the HARD WORK ETHICS which once made them great! Lest there be no mistake about it, I include US POLITICIANS who had their hands in these SCAMS!

 

Have you forgotten the Nuremberg Trials, and its world wide psychological effects for satisfying the peoples QUEST FOR JUSTICE?

 

Seeing people who are responsible for The Peoples pain experience DEATH, will be very healthy for the US economy while extending like a contagion around the world.

 

We're all NOT O.K., as in, "I'm O.K., you're O.K."    

 

 

IMO

 

 

I just gotta say this once.  You should lay off the capitals and bold in your writing.  It makes me feel like I'm reading Zippy the Pinhead.

[Guest ValueCarl]

Hmm, are you sure?

 

I thought I was THE LONE RANGER!

 

HI HO, SILVER!  ;D

 

http://www.monex.com/liveprices?gclid=CKfcheeXj6QCFRplgwodvVZ9Hg 

[Guest broxburnboy]

"...When you're a FAT cat, sitting high on your TREE ready to pounce down on the little canaries all around you for LUNCH, it's fairly easy to tell people to "tough it out," don't worry and don't have "ENVY" in your hearts...."

 

ValueCarl, Charlie was not always a Fat Cat. As he said, during the Depression he and his family members "toughed it out". He persevered thru the bad times and was ready when the good times came. Charlie is basically giving these young people tough love. Stop whinning about how tough it is and get out there and roll up your sleeves. Don't depend on the gov't to bail you out or "spread the wealth", as our socialist leader believes. America was built on guts, adversity and meritocracy. Charlie has it 100% correct.

Unfortunately it has become evident that the current version of American meritocracy is built on deceit, corruption and privileged access to the money spigot.

[Granitepost]

I am sad to say that the quality of the discussions on this board have deteriorated significantly recently.  The quality of this board has been extremely high in the past and it would be a shame for us to allow it to fall due to the desire of one or two members to get some attention.  There seems to be a greater quantity of posts recently (probably due in some part to an increase in membership) and the time required to read the daily posts has likewise increased.  I skip over all messages with excessive words capitalized in order to save time, but am wondering if there is any way we can set guidelines for appropriate content quality.  Perhaps another strand would be an appropriate avenue for suggestions or perhaps Sanjeev can intercede on behalf of the board.

[Guest ValueCarl]

In all due respect to each member of this board, if you don't agree, or refuse to examine different perspectives containing different levels of merit by different messengers, implement an "IGNORE" feature button like some other venues do. That is a wonderful way to prevent "freedom of speech" in cyberspace, enhancing ones ability to tune out miscreants and/or radicals in direct conflict with your own underlying belief systems. That won't make you right or wrong,  however, until you witness "outcomes" unfold.  

 

Without a doubt, for reasons being cited here by some who you may not care to read, America is embarking on a new Revolution, hopefully, one that will make their "founding fathers" proud.

 

However, you might look to the Jewish people of Nazi Germany, who closed their eyes refusing to "believe" what was going on all around them, even while certain wise men were forewarning, for some precedent as to the things I say.

 

Charles T says to stop whining and to tough it out. Well, when you mismanage, steal, dupe and deceive the masses out of their money and ways of life, they will "tough it out" in ways that are usually unanticipated.

 

What I love about silver, by the way, is it's so Jessie Livermore, and so ripe for the times. imo            

[Buffetteer]

ValueCarl, if you want to bash the New York Yankees you should probably do it on a Redsox Fanpage not on a Yankees Fanpage.

 

So don't be upset if you don't find much support for your perspective here. And using the persecution of Jews by Nazi Germany as a comparison for whatever point you are trying to make probably doesn't help.

 

But hey, you can always go to a Berkshire bashing forum, I'm sure there are some out there. If not, you could always start one.

 

IMO

[turar]

What I love about silver, by the way, is it's so Jessie Livermore, and so ripe for the times. imo            

 

Can you elaborate more what you love about silver? And as opposed to gold?

[Guest ValueCarl]

Aren't you just saying, "Tell the people what they want to hear," Mr. Buffetteer?

 

That was exactly my point how those dedicated, productive, creative, valuable Jewish people of Deutschland's society, found themselves in grave danger.  

 

As a matter of fact, this is how nations find themselves in grave danger throughout history. This is also how businesses find themselves in trouble after enough time passes, and goods aren't delivered as promised.  

 

Who or what are the causes behind such dreadful policies behind the peoples finances, acting as yokes around their necks ultimately causing them to act irrationally with unintended consequences?

 

When you find the cause behind these financial atrocities which continue to act as a plague across the globe, find the nearest tree, and begin the hanging!

 

In the mean time, I have a recommended movie for the board. Excluding the fact that most of us place real shekels resulting from our own hard work at risk whilst becoming advocates or fans of business franchises or the people behind them, it depicts the utter stupidity of it all, always when pondering "passive stakes" tied to zero "control."    

 

Glad you brought up the NY Yankees though, because as a kid I used to cry when they lost! I was a fan through birthright from the beginning, including suffering through their abysmal franchise in the early seventies before lucky George's estate took them over.

 

Today, however, I couldn't give a rat's, you know what, as I don't even know, "Who's on First" anymore! When they begin to pay me, I might try to be interested again! Until then, it's just a stupid kids game with over grown men being paid exorbitant sums of money, as a result of the pathetic, "Big Fan," types.

 

Silver, you ask, as opposed to gold being blabbered across everyone's lips? Even if gold gets pummeled near term to its old historical high near $800 per oz., the historical ratio of sixteen between the two takes silver much higher. This is one of many reasons in force that I'm a BULL on SILVER. If such a move can also drive a stake through the heart of that dubious banker that Morgan once built, more power to "The People!" imo              

 

 

[beerbaron]

ValueCarl, besides the historical valuations what's your take on the subject? It seems to me you like silver because you believe it's an arbitrage situation.

 

BeerBaron

[Guest ValueCarl]

I think it's arbitrage, hedge, margin of safety, better for barter if all hell breaks loose, tangible and a "PUT" to "The House that Morgan Built" while manipulating the price to protect their shorts and the ones they inherited through their stealing of Bear Stearns! imo 

[Guest ValueCarl]

To my board brethren as well as my foes, always seeking to find easy shekels, in this case, silver shekels, from "Their Temple" prior to those tables be overthrown by the Lord, there's another damn good reason to bank on silver.

 

It's the usefulness or utility of same versus gold, i.e., supply/demand factors. Factors giving silver far more "utility" tied to technology and industry necessities, versus gold since Nixon's final death knell to that other shiny metal.

 

There aren't enough wealthy Indian fathers X the globe(demand) to fill their soon to be married daughters' dowries with this ornate metal(supply), nor enough fiat stimulus in the economy for most folk to waste their food or rent money on such opulence or vanity!

 

Of course, if by some miracle a soon to be enacted gold standard was once again triggered, forcing wasteful SCOUNDRELS to dig, dig, dig, before they stupidly decided to spend what the people didn't have, I might be more bullish on gold.

 

Yours truly,

 

The Lone Ranger  8)             

[seshnath]

I know that Charlie is a very smart, very shrewd man while I'm just a plain ole dummy.

 

A couple of thoughts on his sit down with QUICK BECKY in Michigan, however.

 

When he quit claimed for all to hear that, "Politicians are never so bad you don't live to want them back," all while amusing himself in the chair with that fine Charlie smirk, the whole audience including Becky went silent, not fully understanding if he was having a senior moment or they were dummies like me!   ???

 

As for the real Munger's analogies being in support of the fake Munger's "DEFLATION" argument, I will offer this based upon him referencing his once rich uncle. That architect was making 8K per year during the roaring twenties-quite a nice sum!-and then got denigrated to a little more than 1K per year by uprooting himself to Los Angeles.

 

As Charlie so eloquently pointed out though, that wasn't so bad because he could still live so cheap compared to his paltry wage base. He had some damn disposable income to be "creative" with. Those savings were a partial "margin of safety" from a psychological stand point after and during the country's financial devastation. 

 

Well, as if Charlie didn't know it when telling those poor Youngins who he was so eager to teach, to TOUGH IT OUT while their educational costs in excess of 50K per year before INTEREST, and few job prospects because of capitalists like him and his Chinese partner, LI, rolling up opportunities far away from them where DIRT CHEAP LABOR PREVAILS, even while the same "INFLATION BEAST" tied to their educational liabilities, which he has told his shareholders in their private settings were so damn good to them over the years, won't give them BREATHING ROOM or excess savings beyond paying their food and rent costs partially tied to criminal banks preventing a 70 year old PONZI SCHEME in the housing market to POP so that they could be given the "LIBERTY" for their creative, entrepreneurial juices to flow again.

 

When you're a FAT cat, sitting high on your TREE ready to pounce down on the little canaries all around you for LUNCH, it's fairly easy to tell people to "tough it out," don't worry and don't have "ENVY" in your hearts.

 

Charlie talks about a party, as though he's Republican or something. Truth is, I heard Charlie say that if the Chinese rule the world because they're wired to do so, he's fine with that. If the Li's usurp the Munger's, so be it, according to him. 

 

Did his hero, Benjamin Franklin, care about the long term welfare of his own country and citizen base unlike Charlie?

 

I know Ben liked the printing press, and even had one in his basement. Charlie and Warren, on the other hand, have figured out how to exploit the stupidity behind the "SCOUNDRELS" running those presses on behalf of their own GOVERNMENT IDIOTS, however.         

 

Charlie, Charlie, Charlie! What was the story with "ILLEGAL NAKED SHORT SELLING" again?  >:(     

 

"At any given time the current politicians are never so bad that if you live long you won't want to see them come back and replace the current crew. " is what Charlie was trying to say I think.

[Guest ValueCarl]

Charlie could have easily explained the "negative compounding laws" derived from "The Original Sin."  When and if I begin looking north of Wall Street to the Center of Times Square, where I see justice being performed with the Hangman's rope, I might change my thesis.  >:(

 

Some time ago, Deep Capture published another treatise titled “Michael Milken, 60,000 Deaths, and The Story of Dendreon.” In this book-length story (which might, indeed, have been the longest blog post ever published), we provided excruciating detail about the lengths that the Milken network of hedge funds – including SAC Capital – went to obtain (and manufacture) inside information about biotech companies.

We noted in that story that the hedge funds and  Michael Milken apparently even managed to “capture” doctors working for the Food and Drug Administration – prominent doctors who abandoned their duty to the public and served the interest of the most destructive network of financial operators in America. And we explained in that story that the hedge funds did not just trade on inside information, they also deployed their information advantage and abusive short selling to hobble public companies that were developing medicines that could have saved lives.

During the many years that Deep Capture has sought to expose these miscreants, we have struggled with our despair – our belief that the system might be so thoroughly corrupted that justice would never see the light of day.  In our view, the DOJ officials and FBI agents who are now going after this network of hedge funds deserve medals. They are “public servants” in the true meaning of the phrase.

 

http://www.deepcapture.com/michael-milken-redux-indictments-on-the-horizon-for-sac-capital-and-others-in-its-destructive-hedge-fund-network/