Crip1 Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 OK, this is not anything really new for the members of this board, but it bears asking when was the last time MKL traded at a mere 15% premium to BV? -Crip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest misterstockwell Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 When was the last time they did anything impressive enough to trade at ANY premium to book value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Partner24 Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 Crip, as far as I know, it's been cheaper than that just a few years ago, and in the beginnings of the 90's. That being said, their historical average multiple has been far higher than that. Are you still a shareholder? Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 When was the last time they did anything impressive enough to trade at ANY premium to book value? I would carefully watch what they do with Markel Ventures. It is getting bigger, and they will put more capital into acquiring private businesses for a long time to come. People ask about companies that do what Buffett does...well here is one that has, and they continue to evolve the process. They have the expertise, investment acumen and operational skills to pull it off. They also have the correct fundamentals in all of their actions. The large premiums to book weren't appropriate in the past based solely on the insurance business, but it will be warranted over time as more quality, private businesses come under the fold. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dealraker Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 Parsad, I've been a Markel shareholder for 18 years and have personally met the Markel's. When you say they have the expertise, who specifically are you thinking has this? Thanks if you can reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crip1 Posted November 11, 2010 Author Share Posted November 11, 2010 When was the last time they did anything impressive enough to trade at ANY premium to book value? That could be taken as kind of an inflamitory response, but perhaps not. Well, of course, that depends on what one would call "impressive". Markel has acheived a 13% average growth in BV/Share for the past 5 years (assuming BV remains flat through the end of 2010) which is not bad, certainly. But it's more impressive considering that the past 5 years has included a global financial meltdown and a protracted soft pricing market. This 13% is on the low end of what this company has been acheiving over the past 20 or so years. The question begs to be asked whether this means that their average growth in BV is at a cyclical low or whether we are looking at something akin to mean reversion. -Crip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 I have been thinking more about insurers lately; market looks interesting given it is trading at a multi-year low. It looks to me that BV for all insurers is inflated today; with bond yields at historic lows, BV growth has been boosted in recent years and I think this multi-year benefit is done. Top line growth will be nonexistant given the crazy amount of capital that exists in the industry. Interest and dividend income will be under pressure as investments roll over and lower yielding securities are purchased. Current year CR appears to be 100 for well run p&c insurers; one has to wonder how long prior year reserve releases can continue to keep reported CR's under 100. And most well run companies are trading dirt cheap based on historical valuation metrics; the best part is the best run companies are not trading at much of a premium to the poorly run companies. On the flip side, should bond yields increase insurers will see interest and div income increase (offsetting BV issues). Should the economy improve, top line should improve. Many insurers are using excess capital to re-purchase crazy amounts of cheap stock (particularly the re-insurers); some are taking out 10 to 15% of their float (and I expect this to continue into 2011). Assuming underwriting standards have not been relaxed top quality insurers should continue to report pretty decent reserve releases. When I weave it all together, I really like the best run companies in the insurance/re-insurance space. Many look to remain reasonably profitable in 2011. Right now it is easy to see the issues and what I have learned is there will be positive surprises (we just can't see them right now). And yes, this is insurance so we could also get some nasty surprises as well. Regarding Markel, my read is it is a longer term play than most insurers (it will take a little longer for value proposition to play out). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 Parsad, I've been a Markel shareholder for 18 years and have personally met the Markel's. When you say they have the expertise, who specifically are you thinking has this? Thanks if you can reply. Forget Steve, Tony, and Tom...they built it and they can run it fantastic themselves. But take a look at the promotions they've made over the last few years. Listen to the conference call and hear the terrific people they've brought on board. Their team is smaller than Fairfax's or Berkshire's, but they are talented and it seems as though they've been given the opportunity to learn about all aspects of Markel, not just any specific area. I'm surprised by the depth of knowledge of everyone on their team. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dealraker Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 "That could be taken as kind of an inflamitory response, but perhaps not." This writer responds: Those on this board may find it interesting how long this poster has been invested with those considered hero's on this board. I'll bet longer than anyone else by years. And Parsad is a resource I'm courting so leave out the judgement and body guarding. I'm listening to the conference call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahleyp Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 "That could be taken as kind of an inflamitory response, but perhaps not." I'll bet longer than anyone else by years. are you like 100 or something? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Markel Reports 2010 Financial Results http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=104364&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1523502&highlight= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Good report. Nothing surprising. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 The MKL conf call begins in 10 minutes (10:30 ET): http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=104364&p=irol-irhome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 2010 annual report is out: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=104364&p=irol-reportsAnnual Update: I thought this was a good observation: Finally, one of the many perverse features of the insurance industry is the mislabeling of riskiness and capital adequacy. Right now, prices are falling and premium to surplus ratios are declining. This makes it look like the industry is more overcapitalized and less risky as it charges lower prices to assume the same risks. When prices start to rise, premium to surplus ratios will rise and rating agencies, regulators and analysts will state that the industry is becoming riskier and less capital adequate as it charges higher prices to assume the same risks. In short, this is idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy1 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Finally, one of the many perverse features of the insurance industry is the mislabeling of riskiness and capital adequacy. Right now, prices are falling and premium to surplus ratios are declining. This makes it look like the industry is more overcapitalized and less risky as it charges lower prices to assume the same risks. When prices start to rise, premium to surplus ratios will rise and rating agencies, regulators and analysts will state that the industry is becoming riskier and less capital adequate as it charges higher prices to assume the same risks. In short, this is idiotic. This is a very interesting. I always thought that in the soft market, an insurance company should write less. However, from the above, I can't be more wrong. An insurance company could be taking on more risk, same risk or less risk even though the premium written is lower. What would be a practical way to tell whether a company is intentionally writing less to take less risk or just writing for less, when the written premium is down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bronco Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Anyone have an IV on MKL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffmori7 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Once again an interesting read. This letter, with the discussion about the way they evaluate their IV, the discussion about Markel Venture, is quite similar to the last Buffett letter. They are really trying to build a mini-Berkshire here and let's hope they are successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahleyp Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 anyone know why steven markel is always unloading a ton of his shares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Gurufocus has an overview of MKL: http://www.gurufocus.com/news.php?id=124999 No big insights. Most people here probably know all this. But if you are new to MKL, this might give you an idea of what they're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=104364&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1541682&highlight= Markel Announces Ellicott Acquisition of Rohr RICHMOND, Va., March 22, 2011 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Markel Corporation (NYSE: MKL) announced today that Ellicott Dredge Enterprises, LLC, a Markel Ventures company, has acquired the European and U.S. operations of Rohr Bagger GmbH and its affiliates. Terms of the transaction were not disclosed. The Rohr companies are leading manufacturers of automated floating clamshell and bucket ladder dredge systems for the sand and gravel and aggregates industries. Ellicott is a world leader in the portable dredge design and manufacturing industry with customers in over 80 countries. Markel Corporation is a diverse financial holding company serving a variety of niche markets. In each of these markets, Markel seeks to provide quality products and excellent customer service so that it can be a market leader. The financial goals of the Company are to earn consistent underwriting and operating profits and superior investment returns to build shareholder value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=104364&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1560572&highlight= Markel Corporation (NYSE: MKL) reported diluted net income per share of $0.85 for the quarter ended March 31, 2011 compared to $4.33 for the first quarter of 2010. The combined ratio for the first quarter of 2011 was 112% compared to 101% for the first quarter of 2010. The combined ratio for the first quarter of 2011 included $69 million, or 15 points, of underwriting loss related to the Australian floods, the New Zealand earthquake and the earthquake and subsequent tsunami in Japan. The combined ratio for the first quarter of 2010 included $17 million, or 4 points, of underwriting loss on the Chilean earthquakes. Book value per common share outstanding increased 1% to $329.09 at March 31, 2011 from $326.36 at December 31, 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biaggio Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Markel CEO Discusses Q1 2011 Results - Earnings Call Transcript http://seekingalpha.com/article/268523-markel-ceo-discusses-q1-2011-results-earnings-call-transcript?source=yahoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Writeup about Markel's acquisition of FirstComp: http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2011/05/12/markel-and-firstcomp-a-marriage-made-in-heaven.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffmori7 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Markel Breakfast at Omaha : interesting notes. http://www.scribd.com/doc/55159075/Markel-Breakfast-2011-Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Thanks Jeff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now