ItsAValueTrap Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 If you have high quality/well underwritten loans, your competitive advantage will give you extraordinary returns on growing capital. I don't understand banks too well, but I think Buffett commented that he was surprised at the fees bank customers put up with. -Regarding "free" chequing accounts... banks give these out and make their money back on overdraft fees. -Forex... there are nice juicy margins here. -You have high net worth? The bank will call you up and try to get them to manage it. Fees for financial advice, mutual funds, etc. are very lucrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green King Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 There seems to be misuse between aggregate and individual return over time for stock, companies and money managers. Umm something to add in as a guard to watch for when other are trying give certainty statistics. There seems to be a confusion between IV determines prices But Price dose not determine IV as shown in other posts twacowfca Can one say Occurrence of event determine Aggregate statistical results But Aggregate statistical results dose not determine occurrence of results In the social world. Or should it be But Aggregate statistical results dose not always determine occurrence of results So be careful Which one should be the exception and which the rule ? Causality is presumed to be unidirectional with the arrow of time, although not necessarily so in math models. You might enjoy "A World Without Time", The Forgotten Legacy of Godel and Einstein" by Palle Yourgrau. Practically, there are sometimes logical reasons that indicate which came first, the chicken or the egg. :) Just brought it. Thanks But expect questions if i don't understand it. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treasurehunt Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 I guess Buffett's ultimate holding period is forever and he would not own a wonderful royalty business if he knew that at some point in the future this business could not survive. This has been a fabulously successful strategy for him but I'm not sure I would be as stringent with this for my own personal investments. I don't think his ultimate holding period is forever. He will screw around with other things. - At one point in time, he hoarded physical silver. Because this trade has no yield, clearly this is a trade where you asset flip. - He sold out of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. And he has sold out of other stocks before. - He's done some stuff where he has sold credit default swaps. Buffett has made investments which have gone to 0 I believe... e.g. he invested in Irish banks. Here's the actual quote from Buffett: "In fact, when we own portions of outstanding businesses with outstanding managements, our favorite holding period is forever." You can find the quote in the 1988 letter to shareholders: http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/1988.html. Clearly there are a lot of qualifications attached to holding stocks forever. Even an outstanding business can become less attractive in time and outstanding management can certainly be replaced by incompetent management, in which case I assume Buffett won't be averse to selling. One thing I have gotten out of this quote is that it is valuable to try and find stocks that I am willing to hold forever at the time of investment. I think this filter has helped me avoid value traps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=104364&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1770631&highlight= ICHMOND, Va., Jan. 2, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- Markel Corporation (NYSE: MKL) announced today that it has completed the previously announced acquisition of Essentia Insurance Company from OneBeacon Insurance Group, LLC. Essentia Insurance Company will continue to underwrite insurance exclusively for Hagerty Insurance Agency and Hagerty Classic Marine Insurance Agency throughout the United States. Hagerty is the leading insurance provider for classic vehicles in the world and host to the largest network of classic car owners. Hagerty offers insurance for classic cars, vintage boats, motorcycles and related automotive collectibles. Hagerty remains a privately-owned, family business. The transition is intended to be seamless for existing Hagerty customers and agents. Both groups will continue to enjoy the same specialized products, service offerings and claim handling. Insurance agents will continue to work with Hagerty as they traditionally have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compoundinglife Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Gayner and other insiders did some buying: http://www.dataroma.com/m/ins/ins.php?t=y&&sym=MKL&o=fd&d=d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crip1 Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 Nice run-up recently has seen MKL recover about 60% of what was lost in the days after the Alterra announcement. -Crip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obtuse_investor Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Nice run-up recently has seen MKL recover about 60% of what was lost in the days after the Alterra announcement. -Crip I hope everyone got a chance to buy some more, even though it didn't quite fall quite enough to be highly attractive. It didn't even fall a cent below the pro-rata book value of ~$424. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShahKhezri Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I increased my position by 150%. I thought it was a no-brainer (if there is such a thing). I sold Y $335 which I bought at $280 last year when they did an equity transaction to add to my MKL position. No I just need FFH to do an equity transaction in the next 12 months to continue this streak. JK, FFH is already at 30%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Partner24 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Doh! No, I didn't have time to do it, because I'm starting few new positions, but still MKL is cheap enough. I'll cross my fingers that it will stay at that level or so over the next few years, but who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junto Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Doh! No, I didn't have time to do it, because I'm starting few new positions, but still MKL is cheap enough. I'll cross my fingers that it will stay at that level or so over the next few years, but who knows... I certainly hope it doesn't! Opened my first position in the name both ALTE and MKL. Long-term hold and I expect to see returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obtuse_investor Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I was only able to increase my position in Markel by 7.7%. My next bid was below $424, which never happened. I was hoping for a fiscal cliff to make Mr. Market swoon into some short term despair. It is certainly nice to have average cost well below book value per share for a such a well managed business. I see MKL as one of my core holdings for the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Partner24 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I certainly hope it doesn't! Opened my first position in the name both ALTE and MKL. Long-term hold and I expect to see returns. Well, as long as you are a buyer, you hope to buy cheap and sell expensive. Ask Costco and Walmart managers about their customers ;-) So that's why if you plan to keep adding to your position, you hope that intrinsic value goes up and price stay the same or better yet, go down. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racemize Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm trying to find info on the annual meeting this year--is it going to be in Omaha after BRK? I emailed IR, but they haven't responded. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRK IN MKE Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm trying to find info on the annual meeting this year--is it going to be in Omaha after BRK? I emailed IR, but they haven't responded. Thanks! I am pretty sure there annual meeting is always in Virginia. Markel does have a brunch every year on Sunday after the Berkshire shareholder meeting. Last year it was at the Hilton Omaha Hotel. I have attached my invite from last year. I would recommend emailing Myra Hey mhey@markel.com if you are planning on attending. I believe she is Tom Gaynor's secretary. I would highly recommend this event. I look forward to it as much (if not more) than Berkshire shareholder meeting. Omaha_Invite_3-12.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racemize Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm trying to find info on the annual meeting this year--is it going to be in Omaha after BRK? I emailed IR, but they haven't responded. Thanks! I am pretty sure there annual meeting is always in Virginia. Markel does have a brunch every year on Sunday after the Berkshire shareholder meeting. Last year it was at the Hilton Omaha Hotel. I have attached my invite from last year. I would recommend emailing Myra Hey mhey@markel.com if you are planning on attending. I believe she is Tom Gaynor's secretary. I would highly recommend this event. I look forward to it as much (if not more) than Berkshire shareholder meeting. This is exactly what I was looking for--thanks so much! I hadn't realized it was just a brunch, but I'm looking forward to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twacowfca Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm trying to find info on the annual meeting this year--is it going to be in Omaha after BRK? I emailed IR, but they haven't responded. Thanks! I am pretty sure there annual meeting is always in Virginia. Markel does have a brunch every year on Sunday after the Berkshire shareholder meeting. Last year it was at the Hilton Omaha Hotel. I have attached my invite from last year. I would recommend emailing Myra Hey mhey@markel.com if you are planning on attending. I believe she is Tom Gaynor's secretary. I would highly recommend this event. I look forward to it as much (if not more) than Berkshire shareholder meeting. This is exactly what I was looking for--thanks so much! I hadn't realized it was just a brunch, but I'm looking forward to it. Yes. Thank you very much. We missed it last year at the Marriott. Didn't realize they had moved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 RICHMOND, Va.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 29, 2013-- Markel Corporation (NYSE: MKL) announced today it will hold a conference call on Tuesday, February 5, 2013 beginning at 10:30 am (Eastern Standard Time) to discuss quarterly and year-end results and business developments. Any person interested in listening to the call should contact Markel's Investor Relations Department at 804-747-0136. Investors, analysts and the general public also may listen to the call free over the Internet through Markel Corporation's web site, www.markelcorp.com. There will be no replay of the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I wonder why no replay? Does Markel normally replay quarterly calls? Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obtuse_investor Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I wonder why no replay? Does Markel normally replay quarterly calls? Cheers! Going through their previous press releases-- Yes, they do. Maybe this is just a way to save some money. It is probably relatively cheap to host it online. I am not sure how many people bother with calling in to hear the replay, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I wonder why no replay? Does Markel normally replay quarterly calls? Cheers! Going through their previous press releases-- Yes, they do. Maybe this is just a way to save some money. It is probably relatively cheap to host it online. I am not sure how many people bother with calling in to hear the replay, anyway. How much would they save by having no replay...a few hundred dollars? No, I think they are trying to get more people to attend this call, as they probably deem the information to be important with the deal. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy1 Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 2012 Earning is out. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/markel-reports-2012-financial-results-214600986.html RICHMOND, Va., Feb. 4, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- Markel Corporation (MKL) reported diluted net income per share of $25.89 for the year ended December 31, 2012 compared to $14.60 in 2011. The 2012 combined ratio was 97% compared to 102% in 2011. Book value per common share outstanding increased 15% to $403.85 at December 31, 2012 from $352.10 at December 31, 2011. Over the five-year period ended December 31, 2012, compound annual growth in book value per common share outstanding was 9%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racemize Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 2012 Earning is out. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/markel-reports-2012-financial-results-214600986.html RICHMOND, Va., Feb. 4, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- Markel Corporation (MKL) reported diluted net income per share of $25.89 for the year ended December 31, 2012 compared to $14.60 in 2011. The 2012 combined ratio was 97% compared to 102% in 2011. Book value per common share outstanding increased 15% to $403.85 at December 31, 2012 from $352.10 at December 31, 2011. Over the five-year period ended December 31, 2012, compound annual growth in book value per common share outstanding was 9%. I wonder what that yields for pro-forma book value after the merge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay21 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 2012 Earning is out. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/markel-reports-2012-financial-results-214600986.html RICHMOND, Va., Feb. 4, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- Markel Corporation (MKL) reported diluted net income per share of $25.89 for the year ended December 31, 2012 compared to $14.60 in 2011. The 2012 combined ratio was 97% compared to 102% in 2011. Book value per common share outstanding increased 15% to $403.85 at December 31, 2012 from $352.10 at December 31, 2011. Over the five-year period ended December 31, 2012, compound annual growth in book value per common share outstanding was 9%. No bonuses again. I'm disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racemize Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 no bonuses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masseyrock Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 By my math: Current diluted BV: $403 Estimated BV w/ Alterra: $426 (6% accretion) Current Portfolio / Share: $966 Estimated with Alterra: $1,197 (24% accretion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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