BargainValueHunter Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Anybody loading up in anticipation of Ward getting the boot? Interesting trade here: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nerves-edge-sandridge-energy-155118407.html optionMONSTER's Depth Charge tracking program detected the purchase of 12,500 June 6 puts for $1.03 and the sale of 25,000 June 5 puts for $0.51. Volume exceeded the previous open interest at each strikes, indicating that these are new positions. The trade cost just $0.01 and will earn a maximum profit of 9,900 percent if SD closes at $5 on expiration. Gains will erode below that level and turn to losses under $5. It's known as a ratio spread because twice as many contracts are sold at the lower strike as the number bought at the higher strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alertmeipp Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Can we say it's shameless threat ? http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/08/sandridge-ward-idUSL4N0B86MV20130208?feedType=RSS&feedName=marketsNews&rpc=43 This thing is going crazy... TPG's presentation was very interesting. It's hard to see how FFH can honestly say they back TW. The facts don't lie, there's been an awfull lot of value destruction. The "related party transaction" appendix is painful to read as an "owner". As for the NAV's, I learned to give them a 20% haircut, for added conservitism. I wonder if TPG has called Icahn. ;) I'm still waiting for my green card. They have 11% now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alertmeipp Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Anybody loading up in anticipation of Ward getting the boot? Interesting trade here: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nerves-edge-sandridge-energy-155118407.html optionMONSTER's Depth Charge tracking program detected the purchase of 12,500 June 6 puts for $1.03 and the sale of 25,000 June 5 puts for $0.51. Volume exceeded the previous open interest at each strikes, indicating that these are new positions. The trade cost just $0.01 and will earn a maximum profit of 9,900 percent if SD closes at $5 on expiration. Gains will erode below that level and turn to losses under $5. It's known as a ratio spread because twice as many contracts are sold at the lower strike as the number bought at the higher strike. I added some, I think he will be out even with Prem's support. Even if he is not, some of what TPG suggests will get implemented is the margin of safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrofan Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Has anyone read the latest presentation from TPG? http://www.shareholdersforsandridge.com/presentations/ Enjoy! Zorro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alertmeipp Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2013/02/06/exclusive-sandridge-gives-ceo-wide-scope-to-cut-his-own-land-deals/ "We continue to strongly support Tom and his leadership at SandRidge," said Paul Rivett, vice president of operations at Fairfax, which owns more than 11 percent of SandRidge's shares. "It seems to me that obviously Tom's done a lot of good and he's been transparent about his relationship with the company and the related-party transactions." Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2013/02/06/exclusive-sandridge-gives-ceo-wide-scope-to-cut-his-own-land-deals/#ixzz2KS8Jb0Pk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijk Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 puzzled by rivett's statements..... could it be that fairfax "support" for tw is driven by a desire to significantly expand their ownership of sd and that they are willing to take short term pain (tw inefficiencies, share price drop) in order to avoid competition from the tpg club/sd takeover to achieve their larger objective? regards rijk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biaggio Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 puzzled by rivett's statements..... could it be that fairfax "support" for tw is driven by a desire to significantly expand their ownership of sd and that they are willing to take short term pain (tw inefficiencies, share price drop) in order to avoid competition from the tpg club/sd takeover to achieve their larger objective? regards rijk I don t know Sandridge but own FFH. Mr Watsa, Rivait strike me as guys that would not criticize and embarass TW through the media. I hope they would not support this type of capital allocation (using shareholder funds for their own benefit) from their managers. Then again Tom does not work directly with him. Maybe they are being "good cops", smart in not being obnoxious and burning bridges. Like the guy at Chesapeake, it seems like his strategy is to make money off of shareholders not with shareholders. It hurts especially when the shareholders have been losing. Human nature would probably ignore these things if everyone was getting rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alertmeipp Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I agree, from FBK experience, it seems these FFH guys, behind closed door, are different men when in front of public eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muscleman Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I agree, from FBK experience, it seems these FFH guys, behind closed door, are different men when in front of public eyes. I was a shareholder for both SD and FFH. After the TPG news in December, I took advantage of that and unloaded my SD shares break even. I bought a small amount of June calls and it is bleeding. Today I sold my FFH shares too, because what Prem is doing with SD is quite confusing to me, and I felt the same as you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plato1976 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 yep, that's why I unloaded some FFH days ago just couldn't understand... I have never frowned over their hedge protection, CPI derivative, book value stagnation over the past few years and so on It's really this weird thing that concerns me the most I agree, from FBK experience, it seems these FFH guys, behind closed door, are different men when in front of public eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muscleman Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 yep, that's why I unloaded some FFH days ago just couldn't understand... I have never frowned over their hedge protection, CPI derivative, book value stagnation over the past few years and so on It's really this weird thing that concerns me the most I agree, from FBK experience, it seems these FFH guys, behind closed door, are different men when in front of public eyes. Yep. Remember a few years ago some bad guys attacked FFH and claimed it is a fraud? Maybe those guys are partially correct, or maybe FFH conspired with the auditor and made it through? Who knows the truth. If it is 100% clean, I can't imagine why they got attacked. Why don't those guys attack BRK? ::) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Wow, are you guys retarded or what to put as plainly as I can? You have access to one of the best insurance and investment minds in North America once a year for about 4 hours at his AGM and another 1.5 hours at our dinner...so you could all ask him this in person. He's also willing to take your calls on their conference call. Prem's always led a very transparent, humble, equitable and shareholder-friendly company...do you think there may be other ways he's trying to rectify things here? And after all the crap you've heard about various participants who were involved in trading Fairfax shares, including published emails and court transcripts, and you guys wonder if he was gaming the system to save his company? All I can say is "Wow!" By the way, they read this board every friggin' day, and if he asks me who the numbskull was that said something, I'm more than happy to tell him. Please sell all of your Fairfax shares if you think Prem's unethical. I'll be more than happy to buy them at book value. Sorry for the rant, but you guys are fortunate to be shareholders in this company. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampr01 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Hi Sanjeev What is your take on SD and do you think FFH vote against SD management?. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Hi Sanjeev What is your take on SD and do you think FFH vote against SD management?. Thanks I don't know. At present, they are showing support for the CEO, but I would suspect that internally if they aren't satisfied with the CEO's compensation or structure, or the operations of the business, they will prod and make appropriate changes. You've seen them do this at other companies they've invested in, and they've even put someone from the company on the board on several occasions. You think the changes at RIM weren't propagated one way or another by Fairfax? Prem doesn't like acting as an activist sort of investor, but at some point, whether it is to preserve shareholder value or reputation, he will step in if he has to. It's what makes him such a respected leader. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wellmont Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 By the way, they read this board every friggin' day, and if he asks me who the numbskull was that said something, I'm more than happy to tell him. Please sell all of your Fairfax shares if you think Prem's unethical. I'll be more than happy to buy them at book value. Sorry for the rant, but you guys are fortunate to be shareholders in this company. Cheers! :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 By the way, they read this board every friggin' day, and if he asks me who the numbskull was that said something, I'm more than happy to tell him. Please sell all of your Fairfax shares if you think Prem's unethical. I'll be more than happy to buy them at book value. Sorry for the rant, but you guys are fortunate to be shareholders in this company. Cheers! :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ It was a rant to help people get their head out of their butts. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BargainValueHunter Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Has Buffett ever been involved with an investment whose CEO has had issues with (shall we say) "ethical transparency"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Has Buffett ever been involved with an investment whose CEO has had issues with (shall we say) "ethical transparency"? Forget investment...what about future CEO in Sokol. Prem doesn't take quite the hardline that Buffett does. He gives people an opportunity to rectify things. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoch01 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Has Buffett ever been involved with an investment whose CEO has had issues with (shall we say) "ethical transparency"? There is no shortage, Buffett says, of "vital matters" that Gutfreund, Strauss, and Feuerstein kept from the directors in the previous months, all the while acting as if things were perfectly normal. But not conveying the Fed letter to the board was in his thinking "the atom bomb." Or maybe, he says, a more earthy description fits: "Understandably, the Fed felt at this point that the directors had joined with management in spitting in its face." http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1997/10/27/233308/index.htm It's debatable when Buffett thought Gutfreund had issues with something like "ethical transparency". Probably it wasn't until after he learned all the facts of the bidding scandal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berkshiremystery Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Leon Cooperman's Omega took a new stake in SandRidge Energy Inc of 24.38 million shares. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/13/funds-investing-omega-idUSL1N0BDDKG20130213?feedType=RSS&feedName=financialsSector&rpc=43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txlaw Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Here's my take on SD and FFH, for what it's worth. I think that, like SEAM and Aubrey McClendon, HWIC and Mr. Watsa will give Tom Ward a chance to redeem himself in some way, and they are going to take the same measured approach to the SD situation as SEAM did with CHK. TPG-Axon is like Icahn, and FFH is like SEAM. It's not all black and white with McClendon and Ward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muscleman Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Here's my take on SD and FFH, for what it's worth. I think that, like SEAM and Aubrey McClendon, HWIC and Mr. Watsa will give Tom Ward a chance to redeem himself in some way, and they are going to take the same measured approach to the SD situation as SEAM did with CHK. TPG-Axon is like Icahn, and FFH is like SEAM. It's not all black and white with McClendon and Ward. Maybe. But if that is true, Tom currently should be at least facing a lot of pressure from Prem, and he should have already announced some kind of pay cuts or so. What I only see is that Tom blatantly denied any allegations from TPG, so I felt like Prem wholeheartedly supported Tom from the beginning. FFH only has 11% of the common, so there is still a good chance that TPG could win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Here's my take on SD and FFH, for what it's worth. I think that, like SEAM and Aubrey McClendon, HWIC and Mr. Watsa will give Tom Ward a chance to redeem himself in some way, and they are going to take the same measured approach to the SD situation as SEAM did with CHK. TPG-Axon is like Icahn, and FFH is like SEAM. It's not all black and white with McClendon and Ward. I agree. At the same time, I think there has been some attention showered upon SD, not to mention CHK, that deserved the light of day. Now it's up to the CEO and his shareholders to decide what the outcome is from all of this, whether things are equitable, and if not what change is in store. I just think that people are jumping to conclusions about Prem's views on the subject...something which we have not heard other than the typical "we support the CEO" standard quote. He doesn't air his dirty laundry in public and whatever he needs to say will be heard by Tom Ward's ears only. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FFHfan Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Mr. Watsa is not Mr. TW babysitter. TW makes his own decisions however rational or irrational they are. As a longterm shareholder in Fairfax I expect small mistakes from time to time. At the end of the day they are human beings and we humans are prone to make mistakes from time to time. What I don't want to see is a "permant loss of capital". Btw. I would love to buy more FFH stock at book value or below. I plan to hold my investment in FFH for the next 30 to 40 years. So if I can cheaply increase my interest in my business, even better. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muscleman Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Wow, are you guys retarded or what to put as plainly as I can? You have access to one of the best insurance and investment minds in North America once a year for about 4 hours at his AGM and another 1.5 hours at our dinner...so you could all ask him this in person. He's also willing to take your calls on their conference call. Prem's always led a very transparent, humble, equitable and shareholder-friendly company...do you think there may be other ways he's trying to rectify things here? And after all the crap you've heard about various participants who were involved in trading Fairfax shares, including published emails and court transcripts, and you guys wonder if he was gaming the system to save his company? All I can say is "Wow!" By the way, they read this board every friggin' day, and if he asks me who the numbskull was that said something, I'm more than happy to tell him. Please sell all of your Fairfax shares if you think Prem's unethical. I'll be more than happy to buy them at book value. Sorry for the rant, but you guys are fortunate to be shareholders in this company. Cheers! Calm down, Sanjeev. The fact that FFH fully supports TW makes me confused and unable to understand, so I sold. We should always stick with investments that we understand, and avoid ones that we can't understand. If you can understand FFH well, that is great for you. I can't, so I must be disciplined and avoid it. I can't buy just because some other reputable folks bought it. I am not saying if FFH is a fraud, or it is not a fraud. I am saying that it is something I couldn't understand. Is that fair? On the other hand, I am still a newbie investor. I am eager to learn more from you veterans. 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now