txlaw Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Wow, are you guys retarded or what to put as plainly as I can? You have access to one of the best insurance and investment minds in North America once a year for about 4 hours at his AGM and another 1.5 hours at our dinner...so you could all ask him this in person. He's also willing to take your calls on their conference call. Prem's always led a very transparent, humble, equitable and shareholder-friendly company...do you think there may be other ways he's trying to rectify things here? And after all the crap you've heard about various participants who were involved in trading Fairfax shares, including published emails and court transcripts, and you guys wonder if he was gaming the system to save his company? All I can say is "Wow!" By the way, they read this board every friggin' day, and if he asks me who the numbskull was that said something, I'm more than happy to tell him. Please sell all of your Fairfax shares if you think Prem's unethical. I'll be more than happy to buy them at book value. Sorry for the rant, but you guys are fortunate to be shareholders in this company. Cheers! Calm down, Sanjeev. The fact that FFH fully supports TW makes me confused and unable to understand, so I sold. We should always stick with investments that we understand, and avoid ones that we can't understand. If you can understand FFH well, that is great for you. I can't, so I must be disciplined and avoid it. I can't buy just because some other reputable folks bought it. I am not saying if FFH is a fraud, or it is not a fraud. I am saying that it is something I couldn't understand. Is that fair? On the other hand, I am still a newbie investor. I am eager to learn more from you veterans. 8) I think what set Sanjeev off was the following statement: Yep. Remember a few years ago some bad guys attacked FFH and claimed it is a fraud? Maybe those guys are partially correct, or maybe FFH conspired with the auditor and made it through? Who knows the truth. If it is 100% clean, I can't imagine why they got attacked. Why don't those guys attack BRK? ::) I can understand why you might get pissed off at this comment, especially if you were there alongside FFH battling it out during that time. It is the Corner of Berkshire and Fairfax -- just saying. As to full support for TW, my sense is that even if FFH was opposed to TW and was pushing for change in the background, they wouldn't be airing that before the public. Doesn't seem like FFH's style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muscleman Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Wow, are you guys retarded or what to put as plainly as I can? You have access to one of the best insurance and investment minds in North America once a year for about 4 hours at his AGM and another 1.5 hours at our dinner...so you could all ask him this in person. He's also willing to take your calls on their conference call. Prem's always led a very transparent, humble, equitable and shareholder-friendly company...do you think there may be other ways he's trying to rectify things here? And after all the crap you've heard about various participants who were involved in trading Fairfax shares, including published emails and court transcripts, and you guys wonder if he was gaming the system to save his company? All I can say is "Wow!" By the way, they read this board every friggin' day, and if he asks me who the numbskull was that said something, I'm more than happy to tell him. Please sell all of your Fairfax shares if you think Prem's unethical. I'll be more than happy to buy them at book value. Sorry for the rant, but you guys are fortunate to be shareholders in this company. Cheers! Calm down, Sanjeev. The fact that FFH fully supports TW makes me confused and unable to understand, so I sold. We should always stick with investments that we understand, and avoid ones that we can't understand. If you can understand FFH well, that is great for you. I can't, so I must be disciplined and avoid it. I can't buy just because some other reputable folks bought it. I am not saying if FFH is a fraud, or it is not a fraud. I am saying that it is something I couldn't understand. Is that fair? On the other hand, I am still a newbie investor. I am eager to learn more from you veterans. 8) I think what set Sanjeev off was the following statement: Yep. Remember a few years ago some bad guys attacked FFH and claimed it is a fraud? Maybe those guys are partially correct, or maybe FFH conspired with the auditor and made it through? Who knows the truth. If it is 100% clean, I can't imagine why they got attacked. Why don't those guys attack BRK? ::) I can understand why you might get pissed off at this comment, especially if you were there alongside FFH battling it out during that time. It is the Corner of Berkshire and Fairfax -- just saying. As to full support for TW, my sense is that even if FFH was opposed to TW and was pushing for change in the background, they wouldn't be airing that before the public. Doesn't seem like FFH's style. I see. I didn't start learning investing until late 2009, so I wasn't around that time for the FFH battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Wow, are you guys retarded or what to put as plainly as I can? You have access to one of the best insurance and investment minds in North America once a year for about 4 hours at his AGM and another 1.5 hours at our dinner...so you could all ask him this in person. He's also willing to take your calls on their conference call. Prem's always led a very transparent, humble, equitable and shareholder-friendly company...do you think there may be other ways he's trying to rectify things here? And after all the crap you've heard about various participants who were involved in trading Fairfax shares, including published emails and court transcripts, and you guys wonder if he was gaming the system to save his company? All I can say is "Wow!" By the way, they read this board every friggin' day, and if he asks me who the numbskull was that said something, I'm more than happy to tell him. Please sell all of your Fairfax shares if you think Prem's unethical. I'll be more than happy to buy them at book value. Sorry for the rant, but you guys are fortunate to be shareholders in this company. Cheers! Calm down, Sanjeev. The fact that FFH fully supports TW makes me confused and unable to understand, so I sold. We should always stick with investments that we understand, and avoid ones that we can't understand. If you can understand FFH well, that is great for you. I can't, so I must be disciplined and avoid it. I can't buy just because some other reputable folks bought it. I am not saying if FFH is a fraud, or it is not a fraud. I am saying that it is something I couldn't understand. Is that fair? On the other hand, I am still a newbie investor. I am eager to learn more from you veterans. 8) Hi Muscleman, the rant was not aimed at you specifically. I just noticed the posts were getting more and more pessimistic about Fairfax and Prem's ethics. You just happened to be the last poster. In terms of selling your FFH stock, you do realize that Fairfax has perhaps $200M invested in Sandridge, and Fairfax's investment portfolio and cash is $25B! So they have less than 1% of the investible portfolio in Sandridge. Even if you fired Tom Ward and sold the company for twice it's current price, that would have less than a 2% effect on Fairfax. I think investor's lose sight of the big picture, and thus the rant. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanMaestro Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8091/8472211112_316c2424db.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muscleman Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Wow, are you guys retarded or what to put as plainly as I can? You have access to one of the best insurance and investment minds in North America once a year for about 4 hours at his AGM and another 1.5 hours at our dinner...so you could all ask him this in person. He's also willing to take your calls on their conference call. Prem's always led a very transparent, humble, equitable and shareholder-friendly company...do you think there may be other ways he's trying to rectify things here? And after all the crap you've heard about various participants who were involved in trading Fairfax shares, including published emails and court transcripts, and you guys wonder if he was gaming the system to save his company? All I can say is "Wow!" By the way, they read this board every friggin' day, and if he asks me who the numbskull was that said something, I'm more than happy to tell him. Please sell all of your Fairfax shares if you think Prem's unethical. I'll be more than happy to buy them at book value. Sorry for the rant, but you guys are fortunate to be shareholders in this company. Cheers! Calm down, Sanjeev. The fact that FFH fully supports TW makes me confused and unable to understand, so I sold. We should always stick with investments that we understand, and avoid ones that we can't understand. If you can understand FFH well, that is great for you. I can't, so I must be disciplined and avoid it. I can't buy just because some other reputable folks bought it. I am not saying if FFH is a fraud, or it is not a fraud. I am saying that it is something I couldn't understand. Is that fair? On the other hand, I am still a newbie investor. I am eager to learn more from you veterans. 8) Hi Muscleman, the rant was not aimed at you specifically. I just noticed the posts were getting more and more pessimistic about Fairfax and Prem's ethics. You just happened to be the last poster. In terms of selling your FFH stock, you do realize that Fairfax has perhaps $200M invested in Sandridge, and Fairfax's investment portfolio and cash is $25B! So they have less than 1% of the investible portfolio in Sandridge. Even if you fired Tom Ward and sold the company for twice it's current price, that would have less than a 2% effect on Fairfax. I think investor's lose sight of the big picture, and thus the rant. Cheers! Got you. I was lazy when I bought FFH. I didn't no any homework. I bought it just as a blind trust to temporarily hold my cash. Just like my BRK.B position. I sold it as soon as I find other interesting investments to buy. I didn't have the long term plan to hold it for 30 years. :) When I feel like this is probably not as safe as I thought, as a place holder for cash, I sold it. That's it. I probably shouldn't have said anything about whether FFH is a fraud or not, because I didn't really have any real opinion on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8091/8472211112_316c2424db.jpg That's what they said to Steve Jobs when they fired him from Apple the first time too! ;D Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longlake95 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Sorry if this was already posted: Omega buys stake in SD. Cooperman's fund also took a new stake in SandRidge Energy Inc of 24.38 million shares, and a new stake of 3.16 million shares in Facebook Inc in the fourth quarter. The fund increased its stake in McMoRan Exploration Co by about 1.8 million shares. I'm willing to bet he backs TPG. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muscleman Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Sorry if this was already posted: Omega buys stake in SD. Cooperman's fund also took a new stake in SandRidge Energy Inc of 24.38 million shares, and a new stake of 3.16 million shares in Facebook Inc in the fourth quarter. The fund increased its stake in McMoRan Exploration Co by about 1.8 million shares. I'm willing to bet he backs TPG. ;D I sold my FFH position yesterday and bought SD today with that sales proceeds. I think TPG has a good chance to win. Cooperman bought at an average price of $6.7, which means that if he votes no, he would likely get hammered on this position. Then why would he buy in the first place? Why not wait until the vote has come out as no, and buy at a much lower price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muscleman Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8091/8472211112_316c2424db.jpg That's what they said to Steve Jobs when they fired him from Apple the first time too! ;D Cheers! Sanjeev, or any other FFH long term shareholders, could you please tell me if Prem had ever made fortune by hurting other minority shareholders? For example, if the TPG vote comes out to be no, I think share prices will drop a lot. Will Prem take that chance to buy even more, and potentially take over SD at a price, say, $4 per share? If that happens, all other shareholders are hurt. I know there is a poison pill, so this is likely not going to happen. But I still would like to ask just in case. For other SD shareholders, what do you think would happen when the TPG vote comes out as a no? Will they buy more and try to do another round of attack to get rid of Tom? I can't see why they would just give up and sell the shares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8091/8472211112_316c2424db.jpg That's what they said to Steve Jobs when they fired him from Apple the first time too! ;D Cheers! Sanjeev, or any other FFH long term shareholders, could you please tell me if Prem had ever made fortune by hurting other minority shareholders? For example, if the TPG vote comes out to be no, I think share prices will drop a lot. Will Prem take that chance to buy even more, and potentially take over SD at a price, say, $4 per share? If that happens, all other shareholders are hurt. I know there is a poison pill, so this is likely not going to happen. But I still would like to ask just in case. For other SD shareholders, what do you think would happen when the TPG vote comes out as a no? Will they buy more and try to do another round of attack to get rid of Tom? I can't see why they would just give up and sell the shares. None that I know of. Some may argue that FBK would fall into that category, but they were already aligned and supportive of Abitibi and it's management, but had a large stake in FBK as well. They voted with Abitibi. Prem's intention is to always increase shareholder value. If the value of his ownership increases, that means the value of all other shareholder's increases. His company is called Fairfax because they want "Fair" and "Friendly" "Acquistions". He doesn't go out of his way to be confrontational or exploitive. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berkshiremystery Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Sorry if this was already posted: Omega buys stake in SD. Cooperman's fund also took a new stake in SandRidge Energy Inc of 24.38 million shares, and a new stake of 3.16 million shares in Facebook Inc in the fourth quarter. The fund increased its stake in McMoRan Exploration Co by about 1.8 million shares. I'm willing to bet he backs TPG. ;D Not only Fairfax & Omega,.... ...you should also include Jorge Paulo Lemann/ 3G. (aka Buffett's partner in the Heinz deal) as a SD shareholder. http://www.insidermonkey.com/hedge-fund/3g+capital/278/?fp=2012-09-30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muscleman Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8091/8472211112_316c2424db.jpg That's what they said to Steve Jobs when they fired him from Apple the first time too! ;D Cheers! Sanjeev, or any other FFH long term shareholders, could you please tell me if Prem had ever made fortune by hurting other minority shareholders? For example, if the TPG vote comes out to be no, I think share prices will drop a lot. Will Prem take that chance to buy even more, and potentially take over SD at a price, say, $4 per share? If that happens, all other shareholders are hurt. I know there is a poison pill, so this is likely not going to happen. But I still would like to ask just in case. For other SD shareholders, what do you think would happen when the TPG vote comes out as a no? Will they buy more and try to do another round of attack to get rid of Tom? I can't see why they would just give up and sell the shares. None that I know of. Some may argue that FBK would fall into that category, but they were already aligned and supportive of Abitibi and it's management, but had a large stake in FBK as well. They voted with Abitibi. Prem's intention is to always increase shareholder value. If the value of his ownership increases, that means the value of all other shareholder's increases. His company is called Fairfax because they want "Fair" and "Friendly" "Acquistions". He doesn't go out of his way to be confrontational or exploitive. Cheers! Thanks for your insights. ;D Is there any chance that while FFH said in public that they support TW, they actually vote yes for the TPG vote? It is illegal to do that right? Why won't they just take that opportunity to get rid of TW, instead of waiting and hoping that TW suddenly changes his heart and become a good man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nestorius Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Per 13G released this afternoon, FFH has increased their stake to 62.5 million shares, or 12%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alertmeipp Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Okay, so, who is selling out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muscleman Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Okay, so, who is selling out? Some random retail folks, or some short sellers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berkshiremystery Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Per 13G released this afternoon, FFH has increased their stake to 62.5 million shares, or 12%. Thanks,.... just went through the filing.... http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/915191/000119312513059343/d486660dsc13ga.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy1 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Okay, so, who is selling out? Oh, there is a Goldman Sachs 13G also. They are now at 19m shares. As of 09/30/12, GS had 24m shares. So, part of the selling is from GS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muscleman Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Does anyone have a detailed breakdown of the major shareholders? Yahoo shows that RIVERSTONE/CARLYLE ENERGY PARTNERS IV, L.P. holds 10.45%. So we have TPG: 6.6%. GS, 5%. Cooperman 5%. Mount Kellett 5%. These folks add up to over 21%. If they can get RIVERSTONE to vote yes too, that would be 31%. From the media I see some random mutual fund complaining about TW too, so maybe those funds will vote yes too. Does anyone think Cooperman would join the fight with a vote for no? Has anyone received the white card from TW? I think he is trying to confuse shareholders with the green card that TPG sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomcapital Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Does anyone have a detailed breakdown of the major shareholders? See attached...sd_holders.xlsx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longlake95 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 added today @ $5.72, the scale is tipping out of TW's favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muscleman Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Does anyone have a detailed breakdown of the major shareholders? See attached... Thanks a lot! Looks like you have already done the homework! So we would expect the result to come out in mid March? Why do Calyle and Riverstone hold exactly the same share count? That must be some kind of duplicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomcapital Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Thanks a lot! Looks like you have already done the homework! So we would expect the result to come out in mid March? Why do Calyle and Riverstone hold exactly the same share count? That must be some kind of duplicate. I just pulled the holders list straight from Bloomberg, and sometimes there are errors in the data. I don't have a view/position on SD, but wanted to help out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berkshiremystery Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Thanks a lot! Looks like you have already done the homework! So we would expect the result to come out in mid March? Why do Calyle and Riverstone hold exactly the same share count? That must be some kind of duplicate. I just pulled the holders list straight from Bloomberg, and sometimes there are errors in the data. I don't have a view/position on SD, but wanted to help out. There you go.... http://holdings.nasdaq.com/asp/Institutional.asp?FormType=Institutional&symbol=SD&Selected=SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sampr01 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 ISS recommends removing SandRidge board, Bloomberg reports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hellsten Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Does anyone have a detailed breakdown of the major shareholders? See attached... Thanks. Looks like Allan Mecham bought 1806134 shares in Q4 2012. ~$10 million… http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/general-discussion/the-400-man!/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now