txlaw Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I still don't really like Prem being on their board. It seems like he got involved in a business he doesn't really understand and is trying to invoke change to recover his losses. Does he really have time to be dealing with trying to reshape RIM? Personally, I believe that HWIC made a big mistake getting into RIM at the high prices they initially started buying at. They appear to have made the same mistake with DELL. However, at this point, it makes sense to me to get involved because at current prices, the gap between IV and market price is close to 0 in a runoff situation, a decent size where assets are optimized through a change in strategy (which RIM is now taking), and very large if there is an actual turnaround where BB10 gains transaction (optionality -- don't count on this). For me, it was very important to make sure that assets wouldn't deteriorate in value based on RIM management being in denial. When Mr. Watsa joined the board, the calculus changed for me, and I started a position. And it looks like Mr. Watsa's influence is partly behind Heins' recent acknowledgement of the problems that RIM has. Regarding the duties of being a board member, I don't have personal experience with this, but I don't think this is going to take up tons of Mr. Watsa's time. It's not like he's there day to day. Even better, FFH gets more exposure to the tech sector and will learn a lot from this, regardless of what occurs with RIM. People made the same argument about Bruce B dealing with JOE, but I don't think this is that big a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Hamilton Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I still don't really like Prem being on their board. It seems like he got involved in a business he doesn't really understand and is trying to invoke change to recover his losses. Does he really have time to be dealing with trying to reshape RIM? While I doubt Prem is going to bring anything in the way of technical expertise, he clearly has an understanding of how to restructure troubled companies (improve managerial reporting structures, focus on markets where a company can "win", align management with shareholders,etc.). RIMM is going to have to reimagine itself, but this is no different than what went on at IBM in the 90's, AAPL when Jobs came back, or DELL now that Michael Dell is fully engaged again. The real question is whether Thorsten Heins can be a Lou Gerstner type figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanMaestro Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 For me, it was very important to make sure that assets wouldn't deteriorate in value based on RIM management being in denial. When Mr. Watsa joined the board, the calculus changed for me, and I started a position. And it looks like Mr. Watsa's influence is partly behind Heins' recent acknowledgement of the problems that RIM has. Good point. Tech founders are usually not very pragmatic and like to swing for the fences. There is a margin of safety in RIMM and it has its strengths but those were at risk. New CEO still has to show the goods though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 So far I haven't seen anything - either an articulated strategy or a product announcement that convinces me that RIM can compete and survive. Once they show their cards, you can evaluate their direction and handicap their odds. I consider investing before then as a speculation with little or no margin of safety. It's a leap of faith based on their management team - pretty much the same one that oversaw its downfall. All I have heard so far from them is that they have a number of options. Thats a warning sign. They need to pick a viable one and execute quickly. Time is something they have very little of. They need a strong direction. I doubt their current assets or business will give them much margin of safety. They are probably going to have to spend big both on R&D and marketing to execute on whatever direction they choose. Since they are short on time, they will need to buy technology instead of developing it. This means expensive, risky acquisitions. I think the odds of them catching up with Android, IOS and Windows in the mainstream market are very low. At best, they can hope for either a niche market or a different (non-device) business. Even if they succeed in those businesses will, they likely be much smaller than the handset businesses. This makes a big difference in the valuation. In other words, its way to early to make a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 IMO culture is extremely important. That goes for all companies, but probably even moreso for tech companies where everything is constantly changing. RIM doesn't seem like it has a very good culture.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augustabound Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 So far I haven't seen anything - either an articulated strategy or a product announcement that convinces me that RIM can compete and survive. I keep hearing the release on their "new" Blackberry 10 is set for later this year, but can't help but think this is just another Blackberry. (I'm guessing that's why they're adjusting their strategy to focus more on the business clients/enterprise than casting a wide net like they used to. Giving up the part of the market they can't compete in for a part they helped create). I guess the guy who came up with the cool names, like Bold and Curve, was on holidays the week they came up with, "10". :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraven Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 So far I haven't seen anything - either an articulated strategy or a product announcement that convinces me that RIM can compete and survive. I keep hearing the release on their "new" Blackberry 10 is set for later this year, but can't help but think this is just another Blackberry. (I'm guessing that's why they're adjusting their strategy to focus more on the business clients/enterprise than casting a wide net like they used to. Giving up the part of the market they can't compete in for a part they helped create). I guess the guy who came up with the cool names, like Bold and Curve, was on holidays the week they came up with, "10". :P I'm assuming it's someone a little older who was a big Bo Derek fan back in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smazz Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 The NOISE level on this stock is completely out of control. I keep hearing RIMM is dead, RIMM future in doubt, and what a joke this stock is from the knuckleheads on TV. The irrational fear of the thoughtless herd is dominating this stock more than anything. Good time to pile in, only wish Prem had waited like Yacktman did. Oh no, the media does their homework. Check out this slide from CNBC. They really are knucklheads. http://i42.tinypic.com/sxn4vo.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCG Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Rapper Nono C. Pearson wants to buy RIM (I think this is mostly a gag, but not exactly sure)? http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/5/2927414/dr-nono-black-berry-acquisition-press-release Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooskinneejs Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 That guy must be looking for a way to get himself a nice spot in jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 More top executives leaving: http://business.financialpost.com/2012/04/06/more-rim-executives-depart-as-blackberry-maker-weighs-options/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rijk Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 a different (and i believe realistic) perspective.... regards rijk http://www.portfolio14.com/2012/04/research-in-motion-is-absurdly-cheap.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanMaestro Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I do not know the technical, execution or marketing challenges but this is precisely the sort of thing RIMM should be considering. Former RIM CEO sought radical strategy shift http://businesstech.co.za/news/mobile/9757/former-rim-ceo-sought-radical-strategy-shift/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanMaestro Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 RIM’s hard choices: Five ways to rescue Canada’s tech icon http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/rims-hard-choices-five-ways-to-rescue-canadas-tech-icon/article2402233/ The idea would be to free up the two very different businesses to pursue distinct growth and innovation strategies, without coming into conflict with each other. “If you treated (BlackBerry services) as a separate business, you’d make different decisions,” says one former RIM employee. Right now, inside the company, there’s a view that both the services and hardware divisions must compromise because of the other unit’s business interests. “And both sides take a hit on that,” says the former employee. Some have argued that RIM would be worth more split into two; the brand erosion caused by its lacklustre handsets may be clouding the value of its BlackBerry network business. Indeed, Mr. Abramsky valued that network in July at being worth as much as $21-billion, three times the current value of the entire company. Mr. Heins has maintained that RIM is more valuable as an integrated player – that its point of differentiation is a combination of its devices, favoured by some users for their keyboards, and its network services, beloved by IT professionals for their security. But that dual skill set could be a curse as well as a boon. “They’re in an identity crisis,” says a recently departed RIM executive. “They don’t know what they’re trying to do any more. Everything that made them different aren’t differentiators any more.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 lots of people bought the rimm tablet for $400-$500 and didn't get 1/10th the value IPAD buyers get. that's a Crime. ONE TENTH?? Lol yea.. maybe 1/10th of the Apps ok Checking out the recent comparisons listed on CB between New iPad vs. ASUS Transformer Infinity (Android) vs. BlackBerry PlayBook 2.0 To be honest, looks like the ASUS is on top yet it hasnt come out yet so really not fair to put that one in there. The Asus Transformer Prime is already out and I have to say it's pretty impressive, especially when running on Android ICS (Ice Cream Sandwich) and it uses the very (VERY) powerful NVIDIA’s Tegra 3 quad-core chip. I'll admit that when it comes to apps, Apple is ahead of everybody, but I haven't needed something desperately and couldn't find an Android app for it, and most importantly if you're someone like me who doesn't like all the limitations Apple puts on their operating system then Google and Android are your friend. Plus other misc things like having an SD card slot to increase available storage and stuff like that the Ipad doesn't offer. I'm really curious to see what Windows 8 tablets will be able to accomplish. Its impressive alright: http://event.asus.com/ASUSPad/TF201GPS/ The GPS doesn't work and you need to attach a dongle to get it to work. Best of luck jumping through those hoops to get the dongle mailed to you. Oh yeah, its free!!! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooskinneejs Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 "top app maker is ditching BlackBerry" http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/17/technology/youmail-blackberry/index.htm?hpt=hp_t2 "Here's a sign of just how far BlackBerry's star has fallen: The maker of one popular app is pulling the plug, citing a "steady exodus" of users gravitating instead to Android and the iPhone...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 http://business.financialpost.com/2012/04/17/larry-ellison-considered-buying-rim-palm/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanMaestro Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 http://video.ft.com/v/1492897049001/Smartphone-democracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 http://business.financialpost.com/2012/04/26/rim-turnaround-could-take-three-to-five-years-says-fairfax-ceo/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mranski Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 which begs the question, why would we want to be a participant in a 5 year tech turnaround? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombgrt Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 “It really would be unfortunate if anything happened to RIM,” Mr. Watsa said, noting that there is an “emotional component” to his involvement that goes beyond the investment facts. That includes RIM’s standing as a Canadian success story, Mr. Watsa’s friendship with co-founder Mike Lazaridis, and RIM’s roots in Waterloo, where Mr. Watsa is chancellor of the university. :-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 which begs the question, why would we want to be a participant in a 5 year tech turnaround? 5 years is an eternity is the device world where the average replacement cycle of a cell phone is 18 months. The more I read, the more I'm convinced that there is little possibility of RIM being in the device business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCG Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Prem has no business being involved in this company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkbabang Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 which begs the question, why would we want to be a participant in a 5 year tech turnaround? 5 years is an eternity is the device world where the average replacement cycle of a cell phone is 18 months. This is absolutely true. Who knows what phones will look like or what they will do in 5 years? We might not even be using handheld phones 5 years from now. (I'm only half joking when I say that, checkout the google glasses). If RIMM doesn't have a clear immediate plan to turn itself around starting right now and ending within the next 18 months at the very very latest, it better just see what a company like maybe Google will give it for its IP and patents and call it a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alertmeipp Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Some of Prem's individual investments make me wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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