Guest VAL9000 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 not talking for him but i think he may be saying for what drives BB, those developers are not game changers. Yes, that's what I'm saying. There is a difference between an app and a quality app. There is no real benefit between blackjack app #594 and #595 (the market is already saturated). 600 blackjack apps is simply proof that Apple's environment is that much better than RIM's. RIM would love to have that level of developer support, but they don't. They don't because their development environment is terrible. The sheer volume of apps available on iOS is a result of a very well thought out and very well executed development ecosystem. It's nothing short of a huge success for Apple and their customers. Determining quality of applications shouldn't be up to Apple, RIM, or whoever else. Quality is determined by the free market, and the free market votes with its wallet. There was one developer stating they would no longer support support Blackberry in an article the other day which kind of gives Blackberry a black eye in print. What wasn't said in the article was the company wasn't making money bc the app had become obsolete by the competition. They probably don't mention it because it's totally irrelevant. Seesmic doesn't make money because they're in a terrible business; they make a cross-platform twitter client. These guys are more focused on getting bought than they are on turning a profit. Even so, they have a huge user base and $16mm in funding. Recently they took $4mm in funding from SalesForce.com to go after enterprise customers. So, they take that money in Feb and drop BlackBerry in June. That's kind of a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CONeal Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I'm not arguing that Apple does not have a good environment but there is a point where additional apps for the same purpose is overkill. I am arguing that the developers that are protesting Blackberry are doing it for publicity. Glad you brought up Seesmic. So they are outdone by Ubersocial to the point that really they would not be missed by Blackberry users. How many people actually heard of them before that press release? Doesn't really matter how much money a company can raise. How much money was raised during the internet boom? How many companies failed? They have a fixed amount of money and in my view are going to an environment where the competition does not exist yet (windows tablet). The eyeball business model has failed before. The only thing is, are you able to cash out before everything comes crashing down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turar Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 The main assumption in these arguments is that it's a winner-take-all situation, and the loser will have no seat at the table whatsoever. At the current valuation, I think RIM is a buy even if they get downgraded to a kiddie table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmitz Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Yes, that's what I'm saying. There is a difference between an app and a quality app. There is no real benefit between blackjack app #594 and #595 (the market is already saturated). There was one developer stating they would no longer support support Blackberry in an article the other day which kind of gives Blackberry a black eye in print. What wasn't said in the article was the company wasn't making money bc the app had become obsolete by the competition. The way you get quality apps is sometimes through the competition; besides, it's not that you need to sift through all the apps available to find the one you want. You hear about an app being interesting, apple has popularity / freshness searches, and so on. This is exactly how Windows won the first time around; with lots of developers you will generate lots of crap, yes, but enough of the gems that need to be there for your business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerbaron Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 The Playbook seems to be getting pretty good feedback as they roll out the software updates... they might be getting their shit together in the end. http://www.amazon.com/Blackberry-Playbook-7-Inch-Tablet-16GB/product-reviews/B004UL34EY/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1 Hopefully their new QNX phones will be Playbook x 2 ! BeerBaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smazz Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 The Playbook seems to be getting pretty good feedback as they roll out the software updates... they might be getting their shit together in the end. http://www.amazon.com/Blackberry-Playbook-7-Inch-Tablet-16GB/product-reviews/B004UL34EY/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1 Hopefully their new QNX phones will be Playbook x 2 ! BeerBaron Wow, Impressed with the detail those people put into their reviews. And what is the real reason IPAD wont use FLASH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 And what is the real reason IPAD wont use FLASH? Mostly speed and battery life, and because they think HTML5 is the ascending tech right now. Steve Jobs wrote an open letter in reply to Adobe complaining a while ago: http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCG Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Flash is buggy as he'll. That said, imdo miss having itnon my iPad once in a while. I think Jobs is right that Flash won't be used in the future, but it will take several years for everyone to convert over to html5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smazz Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 yea, I read that on another forum but to be honest, this made me kind of lol.. We also know first hand that Flash is the number one reason Macs crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 An open letter from a former RIM exec to the CEOs: http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/30/open-letter-to-blackberry-bosses-senior-rim-exec-tells-all-as-company-crumbles-around-him/ They face an uphill battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smazz Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 An open letter from a former RIM exec to the CEOs: http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/30/open-letter-to-blackberry-bosses-senior-rim-exec-tells-all-as-company-crumbles-around-him/ They face an uphill battle. iow it's worse than we think. We have received an open letter to Mike and Jim from a high-level RIM employee (whose identity we have verified), maybe the same former execs that used to write letters about FFH? The old "believe us, we have identified them" yea - we've seen this crap before... different company. Looks like Short Sellers are up to their old tricks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smazz Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 An open letter from a former RIM exec to the CEOs: http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/30/open-letter-to-blackberry-bosses-senior-rim-exec-tells-all-as-company-crumbles-around-him/ They face an uphill battle. iow it's worse than we think. We have received an open letter to Mike and Jim from a high-level RIM employee (whose identity we have verified), maybe the same former execs that used to write letters about FFH? The old "believe us, we have identified them" yea - we've seen this crap before... different company. Looks like Short Sellers are up to their old tricks again. haha he's not a "former" exec. and it's probably an absolute mess inside the company since they were caught so utterly flat footed when "everything" changed. hes not an anything... no names - just believe them he is a real person? if the company was going down the tubes and this "exec" was truley a real person, why would he still be there? and why would he be trying to take down a company or out it if it is still buttering his bread? If he is an exec surely he has stock options? c'mon man, you werent on here in the mid to late 90s were you? This is standard short type bs. I never heard of that website either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turar Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 RIM's response: http://blogs.blackberry.com/2011/06/rims-response-to-open-letter/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smazz Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 edit: I didnt catch Turars post before i made this post so.. that pretty much spells it out better than my response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CONeal Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Wow, Fast Money unleashed on RIM's ass ( 5 -10 years for QNX? I doubt it). The BGR guy said he was releasing two more letters tomorrow from different employees. Can't help but wonder if all this is drama right before the shareholder meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smazz Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Wow, Fast Money unleashed on RIM's ass ( 5 -10 years for QNX? I doubt it). The BGR guy said he was releasing two more letters tomorrow from different employees. Can't help but wonder if all this is drama right before the shareholder meeting. This is pretty much par for the course when it comes with no sources. thats when this type of garbage usually comes out - especially when you cant verify stuff etc etc.. its usually used in the political game but theyve obviously found some gullable cable monkeys on the financial game show here. Damn, bring in some credibility! Wheres CRAMER??? :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CONeal Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Shareholder proposal to split chairman and CEO roles has been withdrawn. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-30/rim-said-investor-s-proposal-to-split-roles-withdrawn-as-committee-formed.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CONeal Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 finally a day with some good news. Networks Corporation, a consortium of certain technology companies, of which Research In Motion Limited ("RIM") (NASDAQ:RIMM)(TSX:RIM) is a part, emerged as the winning bidder for all of Nortel's remaining patents and patent applications for a cash purchase price of USD$4.5 billion. RIM's portion of the purchase consideration is approximately USD$770 million. The sale is subject to applicable Canadian and United States court approvals. Nortel plans to work diligently with the consortium to close the sale in the third quarter of 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodstove Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Yes, that is indeed good news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerbaron Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 finally a day with some good news. Networks Corporation, a consortium of certain technology companies, of which Research In Motion Limited ("RIM") (NASDAQ:RIMM)(TSX:RIM) is a part, emerged as the winning bidder for all of Nortel's remaining patents and patent applications for a cash purchase price of USD$4.5 billion. RIM's portion of the purchase consideration is approximately USD$770 million. The sale is subject to applicable Canadian and United States court approvals. Nortel plans to work diligently with the consortium to close the sale in the third quarter of 2011. Anybody knows which set of patent they bough? What's their strategy with the new patent portfolio, do they want to expand in other areas of telecoms? BeerBaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2S Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 ^ I'd look through the court papers; a joint hearing (by Canadian and American authorities) is scheduled for July 21. RIM's response: http://blogs.blackberry.com/2011/06/rims-response-to-open-letter/ Engadget's take on the letter more or less summed up my sentiment: "It's ironic, and perhaps tragic, that in responding to a letter in which it's called out for not listening to its employees, RIM completely dismisses the matter altogether and tries to paint itself in a flowery manner. Nothing was learned or resolved, and certainly conditions there can't expect to get any better. RIM seems to not believe the letter is truly from one of its own fold -- we can't be completely certain either, to be honest -- and instead of directly addressing the criticism, insists it already is working to resolve many of these issues discussed at length. The company is optimistic about how everything will turn out at the end of this "major business and technology transition," but unless the fine folks in Canada ditch the rose-colored glasses, the outlook could have a very different hue." Another anonymous employee letter (two, actually) to RIMM: http://www.bgr.com/2011/07/01/more-letters-to-rim-employees-rally-alongside-anonymous-exec/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CONeal Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Just because RIM doesn't air everything out in the press doesn't mean they aren't listening. This is a large company and they can't turn the whole organization around on a dime. These matters can't be solved in 2 weeks time. Most of the points brought out regarding moral and middle management can be said about any company with more then 5,000 employees. Regarding the letters, whether real or not, I hope they pay attention to points 7 and 8 of the 3rd letter. You don't have to be an employee to know these are real. Best Buy is a real pain in the ass if someone wants to buy anything Blackberry. While buying the Playbook I got fed up with them and went someplace else to make the purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodstove Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Mr Burke ... You're surely not suggesting that the market action of today (or any other particular day) can be taken as representing the business value of the Nortel patent portfolio! Or of any other business actions RIM may take or results it may report. However, if you wish to play the particular-day stock-price guessing game, my guess is that the value will not be recognized in the RIM stock price until Weds July 27th. It does not bother me if the market is not in agreement even by then; this is about business, not social acceptance. Cheers! ws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CONeal Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 The latest sale spans wireless, wireless 4G, data networking, optical, voice, Internet and semiconductor technologies. The most prized relate to emerging 4G standards such as long-term evolution (LTE). Besides possible royalties. It could cause the android platform more patent lawsuits then they already have. In a sue everyone first world, holding the patents will hopefully cut down on legal fees as the environment moves toward 4G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CONeal Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 The latest sale spans wireless, wireless 4G, data networking, optical, voice, Internet and semiconductor technologies. The most prized relate to emerging 4G standards such as long-term evolution (LTE). Besides possible royalties. It could cause the android platform more patent lawsuits then they already have. In a sue everyone first world, holding the patents will hopefully cut down on legal fees as the environment moves toward 4G. but to those on the outside looking in, we have no idea what the economics are. in this case I defer to the "wisdom" of the crowd. it's a sideshow. Refer to the wisdom of the crowd of you want. Android has about 45 patent infringement lawsuits pending from my understanding. Each android device sold pays Msft $5. If they lose the Oracle lawsuit it will cost google 6 billion. The patent infringements add up real fast. Never hurts to have a good defense when playing the game. (this is based on a 3rd party info) Edited to revise the number for the Oracle lawsuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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