Guest valueInv Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 No, you're completely wrong about this. Both Knox and Balance are containerization technologies. And both are architected into their respective OS'es. Knox is the Android version of Balance, and is no more secure than Balance, as far as we know (I doubt liability issues have anything to do with Samsung's silence). The reason Samsung had to develop Knox is because stock Android is not as secure as other OS'es. As it turns out, I was wrong about Blackberry branding their containerization software for iOS and Android as Balance. The containerization software that Blackberry is going to offer for those devices will be called Secure Workspace. Take a look at where the container is in the diagram: http://www.samsung.com/global/business/mobile/samsungknox/images/img_knox_01.jpg Do you even have a clue? Do you know what containerization is? All that is the same with Blackberry Balance on BB10. That's why government agencies have approved both BB10 and Knox for use by their employees! Seriously, you are saying that Knox is different than Balance on BB10 because you looked at that diagram? Do a little research into the architectural aspect of BB10 and Balance. Distract and reframe again. You are changing the frame from confusing a security architecture and containerization to "BB10 has a security architecture too". Yes, BB has one too but its not called "Balance". And no, BB does not have the same components as Samsung. BTW, iPhone got approved too: http://www.idownloadblog.com/2013/05/17/pentagon-approves-iphones-and-ipads-for-military-use/ So much for the security edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 This is nonsense and suggests that you're not quite as informed as you pretend to be. You've just stated the generic definition of a NOC, which simply stands for network operations center. Really, we shouldn't be getting hung up on the use of the terms "NOC" and "infrastructure." These are metaphors that are used to explain what value-add BBRY provides. We could just as well call this Blackberry data protection service and get rid of the use of the words "NOC" and "infrastructure. Of course, why would someone who works on this stuff be more informed than a lawyer who reads about it on the Internet? ;D Yes, that is the definition of a NOC, thats what it means . They are not metaphors in the same way a "balance sheet" and a "bank balance" are not metaphors. Only a lawyer would use them interchangeably and then tell people not to get hung up on terminology. If you mean secure email, say it. Don't say NOC service which is completely meaningless in this context. Go back and read compoundinglife's post re: centralized choke points: http://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/investment-ideas/rim-research-in-motion/msg116792/#msg116792 . This is an informed opinion re: the NOC and the value of having a centralized choke point. My counterpoint or theory as to why using BBRY NOC services would be "more secure" would be because you are essentially outsourcing part of IT's job to a service provider who will do it better and possibly even more cheaply. Compounding life is describe a network architecture which was in place when the Internet was in its infancy, I'm guessing he is referring to frame relay. We have come a long way from that. There was value in a horse buggy at one time too. That doesn't mean they are as valuable today. No, you're completely wrong about this. Both Knox and Balance are containerization technologies. And both are architected into their respective OS'es. Knox is the Android version of Balance, and is no more secure than Balance, as far as we know (I doubt liability issues have anything to do with Samsung's silence). The reason Samsung had to develop Knox is because stock Android is not as secure as other OS'es. Umm no. Look at the diagram- the container is a small part of their whole architecture. See that small box on the top right? We have already has this discussion - if BB was using secure hardware like Trustzone, they would be shouting off rooftops about it. As it turns out, I was wrong about Blackberry branding their containerization software for iOS and Android as Balance. The containerization software that Blackberry is going to offer for those devices will be called Secure Workspace. That is the least of your worries ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Incidentally, in case people are wondering why I even bother to engage with ValueInv and wellmont on BBRY, given the way they behave (I've been asked this question by PM before), it is because this board is very Fairfax-centric, and so I feel I can add some value by discussing the business behind such a large FFH equity position. However, it's taking a lot of time to respond to these posts and, frankly, I'm tired of being trolled. So I'm going to have to resist the urge to respond to these guys. If I relapse, feel free to intervene so that I don't get caught up in these exchanges! You're not adding much value by trying to confuse people - do your research before you post. Don't post misleading information. People who work in the industry will call out your BS. This has happened before. You were cheerleading about how honest Dell's management was. When I pointed out that the evidence was to the contrary, you tried to reframe the conversation as trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Case in point: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-17/in-a-blow-to-blackberry-department-of-defense-okays-apple-devices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txlaw Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Incidentally, in case people are wondering why I even bother to engage with ValueInv and wellmont on BBRY, given the way they behave (I've been asked this question by PM before), it is because this board is very Fairfax-centric, and so I feel I can add some value by discussing the business behind such a large FFH equity position. However, it's taking a lot of time to respond to these posts and, frankly, I'm tired of being trolled. So I'm going to have to resist the urge to respond to these guys. If I relapse, feel free to intervene so that I don't get caught up in these exchanges! You're not adding much value by trying to confuse people - do your research before you post. Don't post misleading information. People who work in the industry will call out your BS. This has happened before. You were cheerleading about how honest Dell's management was. When I pointed out that the evidence was to the contrary, you tried to reframe the conversation as trolling. I'm not trying to confuse people or post misleading information. Time will tell whether my analysis on BBRY was right. I think anyone with half a brain can see that you are just being a troll. It's not just me that you insult either, although you clearly like to go at it with me, and particularly love to tout how I know nothing because I'm not "in the industry" or because I'm a lawyer. (Btw, how do you know I was not in the industry?) Wrt to Dell, I did say that Dell management was shareholder friendly. But I was totally wrong about Michael Dell and the Dell board -- I fully admitted it. Michael Dell is stealing the company. I wasn't wrong about the value proposition, though. Clearly, Michael Dell and Silver Lake agree with me. You were definitely being a troll on the DELL thread as well. Okay, last post in response to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Incidentally, in case people are wondering why I even bother to engage with ValueInv and wellmont on BBRY, given the way they behave (I've been asked this question by PM before), it is because this board is very Fairfax-centric, and so I feel I can add some value by discussing the business behind such a large FFH equity position. However, it's taking a lot of time to respond to these posts and, frankly, I'm tired of being trolled. So I'm going to have to resist the urge to respond to these guys. If I relapse, feel free to intervene so that I don't get caught up in these exchanges! You're not adding much value by trying to confuse people - do your research before you post. Don't post misleading information. People who work in the industry will call out your BS. This has happened before. You were cheerleading about how honest Dell's management was. When I pointed out that the evidence was to the contrary, you tried to reframe the conversation as trolling. I'm not trying to confuse people or post misleading information. Time will tell whether my analysis on BBRY was right. I think anyone with half a brain can see that you are just being a troll. It's not just me that you insult either, although you clearly like to go at it with me, and particularly love to tout how I know nothing because I'm not "in the industry" or because I'm a lawyer. (Btw, how do you know I was not in the industry?) Wrt to Dell, I did say that Dell management was shareholder friendly. But I was totally wrong about Michael Dell and the Dell board -- I fully admitted it. Michael Dell is stealing the company. I wasn't wrong about the value proposition, though. Clearly, Michael Dell and Silver Lake agree with me. You were definitely being a troll on the DELL thread as well. Okay, last post in response to you. If being a troll means calling out people when they post blantantly false information, I am happy to be called a troll :-* Time will not tell. Time will not transform Knox into a containerization technology or a "NOC service" into secure email. I know you are not in the industry because of the language you use. You use technology words in ways that make no sense. When someone uses "balance sheet" and "bank balance" interchangeably, you know they're not running a value fund. Micheal Dell agrees with you because he is stealing the company. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 By the way, what is this "law of conservation of attractive profits?" How does that effect an vertically integrated player like Apple? So customers think phones are too good? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Both questions that you side stepped in the Apple thread. You can't argue on both sides at the same time, Counselor. I didn't sidestep anything. I got tired of you failing to provide substantive responses to any of my posts and pretending to be knowledgeable by using the Socratic method. If you have an answer to these questions, feel free to lay them out. As to having it both ways, I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding how commoditization and reciprocal de-commoditization works. I thought I explained this by quoting from Christensen, but it might be that you are just in denial. Here's the simplest way I can put it. The OS layer -- which is where the value has been, as evidenced by the outrageous margins generated from licensing OS'es (note that Apple's margins would be a lot higher if you decoupled the hardware from the software) -- is being commoditized because the OS itself is "good enough." As Eric Schmidt has stated, the OSes (i.e., platforms) are at the point where you can pretty much do whatever you need to with them by building software and services on top of them. Therefore, the value is now shifting to providing applications, services, peripherals (think sensors), etc. The BBRY secure data services and software that I have talked about in all the posts above are part of the layer where the value is right now. Right now, BBRY benefits from providing an integrated solution because we are no where near "good enough" in this realm. Very few people are truly prepared for a world where everything is connected and data is flying across the Internet from all these connected things. Eventually, however, modularity kicks in. It already doesn't make as much sense to take the total package from BBRY (BB10, BES/Balance, NOC services). That's why BB10 itself doesn't have a moat based on security. BBRY has recognized this and is decoupling the OS from their security services. Let's see, Samsung and iPhone have caught up with BB security as evidenced by the recent approvals by military agencies. So security is now "commoditized". Meraki (now Cisco) offers MDM for free, so that is being "commoditized" too with tons of competitors in this space. BBM is being overtaken by iMessage, WhatsApp and a ton of others. That is "commoditized" too. No wonder they are porting it to IOS and Android. So looks like the service layer is getting "commoditized" also. :-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wellmont Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Let's see, Samsung and iPhone have caught up with BB security as evidenced by the recent approvals by military agencies. So security is now "commoditized". Meraki (now Cisco) offers MDM for free, so that is being "commoditized" too with tons of competitors in this space. BBM is being overtaken by iMessage, WhatsApp and a ton of others. That is "commoditized" too. No wonder they are porting it to IOS and Android. So looks like the service layer is getting "commoditized" also. :-\ goog seems to be active here. they just rebranded their talk product to Hangout. And it is inter-operable with ios and android. and it looks like bbm v 1.0 for android and ios won't work on tablets. :( go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I recommend folks read from page 1 to page 200 in this thread. Very interesting comparing the perspectives then & now and also seeing how the company is doing today. I bought RIM back in 2011 & have been buying since. Today it is currently my biggest holding. I never thought that would happen but here we are today LOL. Wells Fargo is my second largest. Seemed like just yesterday when RIM was at $6.10 and the whole world was saying 'game over'. Boy am I glad they were wrong. I think people get so caught up in the events surrounding companies (whether it's the macro or competition) that they lose sight of the underlying business & it's current valuations. Don't get me wrong, one should consider things like industry changes, competition or the economy but very rarely do those things even correlate with the actual performance of the stock in the long term. It still confuses the hell outta me that nobody wanted to get this at $6 flat but when it was at $100 everyone on Bay & Wall Street clamoured for more. Just unbelievable..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanMaestro Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 http://ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2013/5/14/bbm-and-the-rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCitiesCapital Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 http://www.seekingalpha.com/article/1467011 Blackberry Z10 and Q10 outselling iphone and Galaxy in France. That's France, Canada, and the U.K. surely we'll hit a few million in sales for the second quarter. Looking at adding to my position again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoCitiesCapital Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20130531PD205.html Ups component orders. Supply chain sources estimate 30-40M in global sales if Q5 replicates success of Q10 and Z10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wellmont Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I guess if Digitimes said so...but what's really a head scratcher is why the stock would be down 2 x the market today on such "positive" news? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberhound Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I guess if Digitimes said so...but what's really a head scratcher is why the stock would be down 2 x the market today on such "positive" news? Maybe shorts increased their bets based on Reggie's article about the Moto X and margin compression from Zero Hedge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I guess if Digitimes said so...but what's really a head scratcher is why the stock would be down 2 x the market today on such "positive" news? Maybe shorts increased their bets based on Reggie's article about the Moto X and margin compression from Zero Hedge. Can a Zero Hedge article have that much influence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valueorama Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 some anecdotal evidence maybe just maybe Blackberry is having good sales. h t t p : //market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=221343 valueorama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wellmont Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 market-ticker.org? ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 how much m2m revenue has rimm reported? Skate to where the puck is going. Guess where the puck is going? http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-29/behind-the-internet-of-things-is-android-and-its-everywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wellmont Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 how much m2m revenue has rimm reported? Skate to where the puck is going. Guess where the puck is going? http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-29/behind-the-internet-of-things-is-android-and-its-everywhere And here I thought you were going to link to the announcement of the first (tadah!) licensee of bb10. There is only one mention of Blackberry in that entire article. and it's only to contrast the point that Android is FREE. Which means bb10 is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Yipes: http://pandodaily.com/2013/06/06/slackberry/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wellmont Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 even I think 90% of this is made up. ::) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 even I think 90% of this is made up. ::) Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairfaxnut Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 how much m2m revenue has rimm reported? Skate to where the puck is going. Guess where the puck is going? http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-29/behind-the-internet-of-things-is-android-and-its-everywhere Ya, that's all we need. An open concept java based m2m running our stuff. That would be a hackers wet dream come true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wellmont Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 even I think 90% of this is made up. ::) Why? Sales girl named Asia? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valueorama Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 OK this is getting weird. Are we seeing a slowdown in Smartphone sales worldwide? http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/has-the-galaxy-s4-peaked-already-slowing-demand-hits-samsung-shares-1157362 The above article claims, samsung shares down 6% due to S4 sales peaking. We already have reports of IPhone sales slowdown(why would Apple start iphone trade-in program). As i see it can be one of the following: 1. BB and Nokia are eating Samsung and Apple's market share. Highly unlikely. We dont hear of Qs in front of stores. 2. Non-brand phones are selling more phones. There is a small possibility. 3. General slowdown in smartphone adoption, hence slow sale of smart phones. Highly probable. What is your thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now