FNMA and FMCC preferreds. In search of the elusive 10 bagger.

[Grenville]

What's interesting to me is that Berkowitz's e-mail said 53 documents were released into the wild. But we've only seen 27 pages from Morgenson. So... where are the other documents? Will we see another article in a few days?

 

I was wondering about the rest of the doc's just now.

 

I called Fairholme just now and they don't have all the documents yet and said they may put them up on their site when they get them. I wish they would just put them on pacer and make everyone's life easier.

 

Also, I assumed Sweeney ordered the unsealing, but looking at the order it looks like Robinson and the US came to a joint agreement to remove the protective designation.

Withdrawal_of_motion_5-19-16.pdf

[Guest cherzeca]

What's interesting to me is that Berkowitz's e-mail said 53 documents were released into the wild. But we've only seen 27 pages from Morgenson. So... where are the other documents? Will we see another article in a few days?

 

I was wondering about the rest of the doc's just now.

 

I called Fairholme just now and they don't have all the documents yet and said they may put them up on their site when they get them. I wish they would just put them on pacer and make everyone's life easier.

 

Also, I assumed Sweeney ordered the unsealing, but looking at the order it looks like Robinson and the US came to a joint agreement to remove the protective designation.

 

@grenville

 

i cant figure it out either.  no way i would have thought govt would agree to release anything anytime anywhere, unless sweeney was about to order something stronger and she let govt know that informally.  or perhaps govt thought it was buying goodwill with sweeney on the motion to compel, but that seems farfetched.

[doughishere]

http://www.valuewalk.com/2016/05/fannie-mae-secret-docs/

 

 

 

Dick Bove: More Documents Revealed Concerning Fannie Mae “The game has clearly changed here”

[doughishere]

It is ironic that hedge funds in seeking their personal benefit have made this information available. It is the classic evidence of Adam Smith’s “Invisible Hand” – i.e., individuals seeking their benefit will benefit the nation. What is ironic here is that these hedge funds acting in their own self-interest have provided critical information to the nation that the media should have discovered.

 

 

Thats the sound of your mind exploding.

[doughishere]

Another volley...

 

The positions of the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal are also ironic. The Times a supposed liberal Democratic news organization is covering this story closely and has also asked for the government to show the transparency that it demands of others. The Journal is on the other side vigorously and repeatedly defending the government. It has gone so far as to condemn the capitalist actors in this situation while implicitly extolling government ownership of the mortgage industry. The Times is attacking a Democratic Administration. The Journal is attacking capitalist investors.

 

 

Pour it on them, Dick. Pour it on.

[tede02]

That is a great irony in these cases. 

[Eye4Valu]

Obama wants to hand the mortgage business to the TBTF banks and leave his low income constituents out in the cold. WSJ defends liberal government and supports taking of private property. The conservator gives away all of the company's money. Treasury places $$ in the general fund and spends it as it sees fit, bypassing Congressional appropriations. Is hell about to freeze over? Should I be selling parkas?

[Guest cherzeca]

Obama wants to hand the mortgage business to the TBTF banks and leave his low income constituents out in the cold. WSJ defends liberal government and supports taking of private property. The conservator gives away all of the company's money. Treasury places $$ in the general fund and spends it as it sees fit, bypassing Congressional appropriations. Is hell about to freeze over? Should I be selling parkas?

 

that shapiro white paper which argued for recapping GSEs and putting govt warrants into housing fund seemed like it would be right up obama's alley.  guy is too busy playing golf and figuring out who to pardon

[Mephistopheles]

merkhet and cherzeca: Question for you guys; the newly unsealed emails very obviously show that the WH/Treasury was a) calling the shots and b) had a motivation to kill the companies. To me, this screams of a taking. If this is not to be considered a Takings under the 5th Amendment, then what is? And then of course imagine what could possibly be in the other 11,000 documents. And then Sweeney's particularly strong choice of words "the only 'harm' presented is the potential for criticism".

 

Would you guys say that this makes the the Court of Claims case a near guarantee? I know nothing is for certain, but I can't imagine anything short of Sweeney being bought out (which perhaps is a real risk) that would result in a loss for us.

[Guest cherzeca]

merkhet and cherzeca: Question for you guys; the newly unsealed emails very obviously show that the WH/Treasury was a) calling the shots and b) had a motivation to kill the companies. To me, this screams of a taking. If this is not to be considered a Takings under the 5th Amendment, then what is? And then of course imagine what could possibly be in the other 11,000 documents. And then Sweeney's particularly strong choice of words "the only 'harm' presented is the potential for criticism".

 

Would you guys say that this makes the the Court of Claims case a near guarantee? I know nothing is for certain, but I can't imagine anything short of Sweeney being bought out (which perhaps is a real risk) that would result in a loss for us.

 

not so fast.  first, remember fairholme is still in jurisdictional discovery phase.  the taking trial hasnt started, whether or not a motion for summary judgment is filed. second, remember starr won on liability and lost on damages (on illegal exaction, which is similar to taking). i am looking forward to an invalidation of NWS which will result in what i expect to be an acceptable remedy, rather than a takings which looks to valuation of what was taken in 2012

[deadspace]

I too was worried about a taking leading to a determination of valuation based on 2012 prices.  But given what we know now about all that was known at the time a taking by insiders who had all the information  -this would need to lead to an evaluation of these assets at many times the market price at the time of the taking

 

Otherwise the precedent would be awful

 

Any insider facing a large corporate payout could just orchestrate a taking before some big news and face the consequences of paying out those pesky shareholders the price of shares before the announcement

[Mephistopheles]

merkhet and cherzeca: Question for you guys; the newly unsealed emails very obviously show that the WH/Treasury was a) calling the shots and b) had a motivation to kill the companies. To me, this screams of a taking. If this is not to be considered a Takings under the 5th Amendment, then what is? And then of course imagine what could possibly be in the other 11,000 documents. And then Sweeney's particularly strong choice of words "the only 'harm' presented is the potential for criticism".

 

Would you guys say that this makes the the Court of Claims case a near guarantee? I know nothing is for certain, but I can't imagine anything short of Sweeney being bought out (which perhaps is a real risk) that would result in a loss for us.

 

not so fast.  first, remember fairholme is still in jurisdictional discovery phase.  the taking trial hasnt started, whether or not a motion for summary judgment is filed. second, remember starr won on liability and lost on damages (on illegal exaction, which is similar to taking). i am looking forward to an invalidation of NWS which will result in what i expect to be an acceptable remedy, rather than a takings which looks to valuation of what was taken in 2012

 

Thanks for the response

 

In regards to the Starr case, from what I understand the logic for not awarding damages was "but for the deal, AIG would be worth 0, so no damages".

 

In this case, if it wasn't for the deal, then the companies would be a hell of a lot richer, no? Didn't the AIG case have to do with the legacy shareholders before the bailout, whereas the FNMA/FMCC case is not about a class of shares being diluted but the company itself being subject to over payment, which "but for the deal" should simply get a reversal of payments. In other words, I feel valuation is not an issue here, but maybe I'm missing something?

 

Edit: And the Starr case was focused on the exaction of the equity (dilution) component, so valuing the shares in that case makes more sense than in this one imo.

[Mephistopheles]

Also yes the Takings trial hasn't started but again to me it seems extremely likely that we do get a trial with the newly unsealed documents.

[doughishere]

What's interesting to me is that Berkowitz's e-mail said 53 documents were released into the wild. But we've only seen 27 pages from Morgenson. So... where are the other documents? Will we see another article in a few days?

 

 

That's a possibility. Another B.Mac article on Friday?

[Steve_Berk]

That the Treasury was instrumental and pulling the strings of the FHFA goes to proving that the conflict of interest exception that we would like to apply to HERA is available to the shareholders. The argument goes that the FHFA and the Treasury are acting as one and the same and you can't expect that entity to bring a claim on behalf of shareholders against itself so the shareholders can bring a claim. That's how the emails coming from Parrott can be immediately helpful on the point about the Treasury taking charge

[doughishere]

Didnt Obama have a golf outing last summer with the lawyers for Fairholme ?

[Eye4Valu]

With regard to a takings claim, wouldn't the damages suffered be liquidation value for the junior pref? Or would it be what they were trading for in 2012? I doubt Fairholme would be knee deep in the junior pref if it were the later.

[Luke 532]

This is a must watch video.  It's great. http://thenationalrealestatepost.com/ny-times-uncovers-fannie-freddie-white-house-scandal/

[Steve_Berk]

that video is a good one to send to people who don't already know about what's happening. A good introduction into what this is all about without getting into technical details

 

This is a must watch video.  It's great. http://thenationalrealestatepost.com/ny-times-uncovers-fannie-freddie-white-house-scandal/

[Guest cherzeca]

this appears to be the full listing of the documents released last week:  http://fanniefreddiesecrets.org/category/court-documents/

 

EDIT see http://fanniefreddiesecrets.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/FHFA00012792_Redacted.pdf which i havent seen referenced before.  puts to lie the death spiral narrative

 

EDIT:  telephone CC with cooper & kirk: 

Date: May 24, 2016

 

Time: 4:30 PM ET

 

Host: David Thompson, Managing Partner at Cooper & Kirk

 

Subject: Recent developments in GSE litigation, including newly unsealed documents.

 

Participant Toll Free Dial-In Number: (866) 547-1509

 

Participant International Dial-In Number: (920) 663-6208

 

Conference ID: 19870658

[doughishere]

this appears to be the full listing of the documents released last week:  http://fanniefreddiesecrets.org/category/court-documents/

 

EDIT see http://fanniefreddiesecrets.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/FHFA00012792_Redacted.pdf which i havent seen referenced before.  puts to lie the death spiral narrative

 

EDIT:  telephone CC with cooper & kirk: 

Date: May 24, 2016

 

Time: 4:30 PM ET

 

Host: David Thompson, Managing Partner at Cooper & Kirk

 

Subject: Recent developments in GSE litigation, including newly unsealed documents.

 

Participant Toll Free Dial-In Number: (866) 547-1509

 

Participant International Dial-In Number: (920) 663-6208

 

Conference ID: 19870658

 

Whoever gets on in QA mode, if there is a QA, the very first question someone should ask is if they are in settlement talks or has anyone been approached by anyone.

 

 

This is no secret anymore. You can bet Trump knows with his meeting this week, You know Hillary knows and everyone in between. No one can pretend they dont know about F&F, or the situation they are in, ...........

 

I dont want to get a rehash of the same story weve heard the last 25 times. We all know the story to this point. I feel like im waiting for G.R.R.Martin's next book.

[doughishere]

 

EDIT see http://fanniefreddiesecrets.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/FHFA00012792_Redacted.pdf which i havent seen referenced before.  puts to lie the death spiral narrative

 

 

Does the FHFA hire the banks as consultants?  BNP Paribas gets  their emails forwarded straight to the top.

 

 

[merkhet]

No one seems to be asking questions that matter. I'm in the queue though.

[doughishere]

Yeah who cares about Carney. Thanks Merk.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBecM3CQVD8

[merkhet]

"Can we get the government lawyers disbarred?"

 

"Why is Carney so mean?"

 

Seriously? You get in the queue and these are the questions you ask?