AAPL - Apple Inc.

[DCG]

The fingerprint sensor is for unlocking the phone, instead of using a passcode. So if someone steals your phone, they (in theory) won't be able to unlock it. Seems like it has the potential to lock people out of their own phones if it has bugs though.

 

I think part of the issue with their product announcements is that there are no surprises any more. They are so large that it's seemingly impossible to keep secrets (more specifically, it's impossible for their parts, manufacturers and distributors to keep secrets). I think if they held off on the iOS7 announcement, and merged them into one big event, it may have had a bigger impact.

 

I'll still most likely upgrade from my 4S to the 5S, although part of me want to hold out for the 6, which will likely have a larger screen. I'm fine with the height of the 5S, but would like it to be a little wider.

 

After about a month of using iOS7 beta on my phone, I still like it quite a bit, but will say the changes are largely cosmetic, and there are some things I wished they changed/fixed.

 

One in particular issue I have with it (which has has always been the case in previous OS's) is that every time I connect my phone to my car stereo  it immediately opens the music app and starts playing the 1st song in alphabetical order. I don't understand the rationale behind this. For one, I often use podcasting apps (or even sometimes just connect it in the car to charge it), so I have to manually stop the song from playing before I can open the other app, and secondly, why would anyone want the first song (starting with A) in their music library to play every single time? Makes no sense, and I can't believe they still haven't fixed this.

 

The Mail app has been improved, but I dislike that there's still no option to have it return to the inbox after deleting an open email (instead of just opening the next email). The Gmail app offers this functionality, but that apps takes a long time to load emails every time you open it.

 

There are also some weird things with the new version of Safari (that I'm hoping will be changed for the official release). The menu bar (containing the Back or Forward buttons, Bookmarket button etc.) disappears when you scroll down on a page. You have to scroll back up to get it to reappear, and somethings it can be a bit wonky. Safari also appears to let you have an unlimited amount of open tabs/windows, and the process of closing open windows is a bit clunky.

 

Those gripes aside, I think the 5S will be the best phone on the market. That said, I understand the demand for larger-screen phones.

 

 

[CorpRaider]

They brought Docomo to their knees!  China is next. Aapl says you will buy a $700 phone and you will like it Chinese.  Disclosure: I currently own no shares.

[Guest valueInv]

 

 

Watch their actual presentation.

 

And yes, their fingerprint sensor pushes boundaries. Think carefully about what a fingerprint sensor means. Oher vendors tried to ship one with their phone and failed.

 

 

 

What does their fingerprint sensor mean?  Besides is being somewhat cool, what purpose will it serve?

 

 

Watch their actual presentation.

 

And yes, their fingerprint sensor pushes boundaries. Think carefully about what a fingerprint sensor means. Oher vendors tried to ship one with their phone and failed.

 

 

 

What does their fingerprint sensor mean?  Besides is being somewhat cool, what purpose will it serve?

 

They can make a fingerprint database and hand it over to the NSA? :D At fair pricing per print... ;D

 

Apple has no access to your fingerprints. They're stored securely on the device locally.

[Palantir]

I can see why some would want a larger screen, but, it also hurts portability a lot to do so, and the iPhone 5 seems to be "just right" in terms of screen size v portability, and you have to keep balancing those two. I for one, don't feel a bigger phone is a plus, I like the sleek look of this thing.

 

Developers also have problems making apps for different screen sizes.

[DCG]

I can see why some would want a larger screen, but, it also hurts portability a lot to do so, and the iPhone 5 seems to be "just right" in terms of screen size v portability, and you have to keep balancing those two. I for one, don't feel a bigger phone is a plus, I like the sleek look of this thing.

 

Developers also have problems making apps for different screen sizes.

 

True.

[txlaw]

Really interesting pricing decision on Apple's part.  I think that Tim Cook has probably thought about this very hard, and decided that keeping iPhone ASPs from collapsing was the best thing for shareholders. 

 

This could indeed be the best decision.  As the OS market commoditizes, I think we will now see Apple get back to a luxury good market share, where they extract cash from embedded license sales, while putting more capital into their software and services business.  This seems like a rational decision that Tim Cook is making and is true to Apple's past and present biz model.

 

But the question remains what the rate of smartphone sales, generally, will be at going forward, what ASPs will look like across the industry (and gross margins as well), and what that means for iPhone unit sales growth and ASPs, as that will determine earnings going forward.  At current prices, I think the likelihood is that you are buying the biz at fair value, while possibly exposing yourself to downside risk if phone ASPs collapse across the board.

[txlaw]

I can see why some would want a larger screen, but, it also hurts portability a lot to do so, and the iPhone 5 seems to be "just right" in terms of screen size v portability, and you have to keep balancing those two. I for one, don't feel a bigger phone is a plus, I like the sleek look of this thing.

 

Developers also have problems making apps for different screen sizes.

 

I used to think that the iPhone 5 was just right in terms of screen size. 

 

But after using a Galaxy S4, I've realized that I want a bigger screen.  That will be the main factor that leads me to switch to Android in the next couple of months.  I'm hoping that the Nexus 5 is just right in terms of screen size.  Otherwise, I'll probably get a Galaxy S4.

[hyten1]

i could be totally off the mark (i don't own apple or do i short apple, just my observation and humble opinion)

 

but i find the pace of new products/services from apple SLOW

 

a 400bil+ dollar company and this is all you can do? people have been saving "they have things in the works, you'll see". I get that i am sure they have things in the works. also people can argue, apple is focused that is why they are so successful, i get that too

 

but come on? this is it?

 

EDIT: take more risk, put out more/different stuff, via google.

 

EDIT 2: maybe apple should have something like "apple labs" (maybe they do), put out more risky stuff at lower volume, test it out etc.

 

hy

[Liberty]

valueInv, looks like you got your wish for cheaper buybacks.

 

 

 

I think there will always be a divide on how Apple is seen to be doing between people who can "see it" and those who can't. A friend's wife couldn't see the difference in sound and image quality between VHS and DVD, and from DVD to Bluray. She was physically capable of seeing it and if you pointed it out to her she would, but she just didn't notice as long as it was whatever content she wanted to watch. Same thing as how some people will be mesmerized by the quality of the writing and attention to detail on a HBO drama like The Wire while others will yawn and go back to watching CSI:whatever.

 

I think many people are like that with their technology. You put a Macbook Pro and a DELL laptop side by side, and they'll go down the feature list and think "why should I pay hundreds more for the Mac? they both can go on the web, play movies and music, store files, have fast CPUs, lots of RAM, etc...". Same with iPhone vs Galaxy. "They both can do X, Y and Z, why pay more?"

 

While for others, Apple's a bargain. Just a bit more money for a much better user experience, with lots of attention to detail, to getting things to feel just right, etc. That's cheap for a device that you'll be spending your life interacting with. In fact, if windows PCs were free, I'd still have bought my Mac Pro because I spend 10 hours a day on it, and if Android tablets were free I'd still have gotten my iPad. There's still a big difference in the quality of the experience and in the usefulness of the devices (which shows in usage surveys, showing that iOS devices are used a lot more). That's why the Apple stores are brilliant; people who didn't think they'd care get to try the devices, and many realize that what doesn't seem like a big difference on paper is actually much bigger in practice (ie. when the iPad first came out, lots of people were disappointed "Meh, it's just a big iPod Touch!" -- and it was on paper, but in practice, that's not what mattered).

 

Those who don't see it might think it's about elitism, but it's not. Paying more for something that truly makes you life better can be good value. For some it's a quality automobile, kitchen knives, mattress, clothes, etc. In consumer electronics, Apple's simply the best IMO.

 

That difference doesn't come from just the technology -- all their competitors have the same kinds of technologies in their R&D labs and have software engineers who could in theory write the same code; it comes from the company's DNA (liberal arts + technology, intense focus on customer, focus on a few things but try to be very best at those, only hire A players, intangible taste and design sense, etc). As long as I see the company focusing on the right things, I'll hold my shares. If one day I try a product from another company and think that it's overall better (not "oh, it has that feature that Apple doesn't have yet", but really a better experience as a whole), then I'll sell my shares.

 

What makes it tricky is that the experience of a consumer product ends up being kind of intangible. With CPUs, you can run benchmarks. But with a kitchen knife, you have to use it and decide if it's worth the money to you.

[hyten1]

i was wondering what peoples thoughts are, just curious because how the company perceive and define itself affects what product/service they provide. too narrow of a definition can render them obsolete one day, too broad of a focus has its own issue as well.

 

 

what is apple?

 

microsoft is a software company, ibm tech services company, etc, what is apple?

 

[Viking]

Liberty, great summary of how many Apple customers feel.

 

I am not surprised to see the stock sell off today. Analysts were predicting a price point of $300-$400 for the 5C. Apple came in at $550. Given the much higher price, of course analysts now HAVE TO slash they volume estimates. This then leads to lower earnings estimates. Apple did not do what they wanted so they are going to throw a tantrum. None of these analysts are even trying to understand what Apple is actually doing and that it just might work out well! With the benefit of time I think analysts will once again be proven to be way off the mark with their current concerns regarding how well the 5C will sell.

 

What is Apple's core smartphone market? The US (we can throw Canada into this bucket as well). For this market, the 5S, 5C & iOS7 are a much, much better offering than what they had this time last year (the 5, 4S & iOS6). Further, Apple is dominating enterprise purchases and this should accelerate with 5C (and the added security). Nobody is talking about this important growth engine for Apple. Bottom line is Apple should be able to continue to grow its US share (they will grow faster than market). So they look good in their most important market.

 

How does Japan look? Apple just signed DoCoMo. This is a very large and premium market. 5S, 5C and iOS7 are a perfect fit. I expect Japan to be a big growth engine for Apple for the next year.

 

How does China look? What we learned yesterday is pretty much all of the major leaks were accurate. The one big leak that did not materialize was the China Mobile deal. My guess is we will get a China deal before November. Once this happens, China will be a big growth engine next year.

 

The remaining markets: I think the combination of 5S, 5C & iOS7 will chug along.

 

When you add it all up, I think Apple will see solid growth in smartphone sales over the next 12 months. Total profits will also grow.

 

Samsung is Apple's main competitor in the premium smartphone segment. Apple has had a much better year than Samsung on both hardware and software development. Samsung had a lot of momentum coming into 2013 and that is no longet the case; they have made a number of mistakes (most recently their rushed attempt at the Galaxy Gear). It looks to me that Apple is once again widening its moat after having it shrink the past few years.

[Liberty]

i could be totally off the mark (i don't own apple or do i short apple, just my observation and humble opinion)

 

but i find the pace of new products from apple SLOW

 

a 400bil+ dollar company and this is all you can do? people have been saving "they have things in the works, you'll see". I get that i am sure they have things in the works. also people can argue, apple is focused that is why they are so successful, i get that too

 

but come on? this is it?

 

EDIT: take more risk, put out more/different stuff, via google.

 

EDIT 2: maybe apple should have something like "apple labs" (maybe they do), put out more risky stuff at lower volume, test it out etc.

 

hy

 

I'm sure Apple tests all kinds of stuff internally, but they don't release them as products until they feel they really have something good enough. Google does its beta testing in public.

 

It's a different model, and both have pros and cons. But you're asking Apple to be something it's not. I doubt they'll change to be more like that.

 

If you look at the past 10 years of announcements, you'll see that it's not like they had a big surprise or breakthrough ever year. The media portrays them like that, but they've never been that way.

 

It also usually takes a while for people to realize what they've got (see the "iPad is just a giant iPod Touch, meh.." comment above).

[hyten1]

i could be totally off the mark (i don't own apple or do i short apple, just my observation and humble opinion)

 

but i find the pace of new products from apple SLOW

 

a 400bil+ dollar company and this is all you can do? people have been saving "they have things in the works, you'll see". I get that i am sure they have things in the works. also people can argue, apple is focused that is why they are so successful, i get that too

 

but come on? this is it?

 

EDIT: take more risk, put out more/different stuff, via google.

 

EDIT 2: maybe apple should have something like "apple labs" (maybe they do), put out more risky stuff at lower volume, test it out etc.

 

hy

 

I'm sure Apple tests all kinds of stuff internally, but they don't release them as products until they feel they really have something good enough. Google does its beta testing in public.

 

It's a different model, and both have pros and cons. But you're asking Apple to be something it's not. I doubt they'll change to be more like that.

 

If you look at the past 10 years of announcements, you'll see that it's not like they had a big surprise or breakthrough ever year. The media portrays them like that, but they've never been that way.

 

It also usually takes a while for people to realize what they've got (see the "iPad is just a giant iPod Touch, meh.." comment above).

 

 

liberty, i hear ya

 

but don't you think a company that is 400bil+ with all their resources etc, and this is all we get in terms of product/service innovation is a setting the bar too low? maybe i have a higher expectation than you guys. i feel like apple is this genius kid that has under achieve. there is so much apple could of and can do with their massive resources.

 

i think part of it comes down to how apple see it self, i hope they don't just see themselves just as a "consumer electronic company"

[Guest valueInv]

i could be totally off the mark (i don't own apple or do i short apple, just my observation and humble opinion)

 

but i find the pace of new products/services from apple SLOW

 

a 400bil+ dollar company and this is all you can do? people have been saving "they have things in the works, you'll see". I get that i am sure they have things in the works. also people can argue, apple is focused that is why they are so successful, i get that too

 

but come on? this is it?

 

EDIT: take more risk, put out more/different stuff, via google.

 

EDIT 2: maybe apple should have something like "apple labs" (maybe they do), put out more risky stuff at lower volume, test it out etc.

 

hy

 

If you had something new, would you announce it along with your iPhone and take away attention from your most important flagship product?

[Liberty]

Viking, agreed. And you didn't even touch on the new iPads.

 

The Mini with a retina screen will sell really well IMO, and if they put the fingerprint scanner on the 5th gen, along with the 64-bit A7 (or A7X with more cores) and badass new camera, that'll crush the tablet competition for a while.

 

I wrote it as specs above, but what most people will see is: That thing is more secure, easier to use, takes much better photos, and is blazing fast with amazing looking games (on top of all the previous iPad advantages + the new very modern iOS 7 look).

 

Oh, and they come with iMovie and iPhoto and office apps out of the box...

[Palantir]

I think Apple stuff is awesome, and I would always prefer it over other brands, it's just horridly expensive for me. My laptop cost $500, two years ago, and it's running great, 2Ghz something processor, 6GB memory, 17" screen etc etc, Apple likely has better laptops in the MBP, but 2k dollars? But I'm willing to spend a six hundred for an iPhone, I still feel I overpaid, but I'm happy with the product.

[VAL9000]

If you had something new, would you announce it along with your iPhone and take away attention from your most important flagship product?

 

Wasn't that exactly what Steve Jobs did every time he uttered the phrase "one more thing"?

 

Just saying, Apple doesn't have anything until it has something, and despite Apple's amazing track record with new product introduction, none of those have been developed in a post-Steve Jobs era.

 

People who say that innovation is the reason to invest in Apple are just as uninformed as the general public.  There's no special insight there, just faith.  So when you are talking about innovation and Apple, you should say "I have faith that they will continue to innovate".  What you don't have, is proof.

 

[Palantir]

microsoft is a software company, ibm tech services company, etc, what is apple?

 

Apple is a devices and services (;D) company that sells a high end product experience.

[Guest wellmont]

I think Apple stuff is awesome, and I would always prefer it over other brands, it's just horridly expensive for me. My laptop cost $500, two years ago, and it's running great, 2Ghz something processor, 6GB memory, 17" screen etc etc, Apple likely has better laptops in the MBP, but 2k dollars? But I'm willing to spend a six hundred for an iPhone, I still feel I overpaid, but I'm happy with the product.

 

you are like 95% of the other people out there. for you this stuff is a tool and not a status symbol.

[Liberty]

If you had something new, would you announce it along with your iPhone and take away attention from your most important flagship product?

 

Wasn't that exactly what Steve Jobs did every time he uttered the phrase "one more thing"?

 

http://everystevejobsvideo.com/steve-jobs-one-more-thing-complete-compilation-1999-2011/

 

I don't think so. It varied a lot.

[Liberty]

you are like 95% of the other people out there. for you this stuff is a tool and not a status symbol.

 

I disagree with that way of putting it. For some it can be a status symbol (in the same way that for some, getting something other than Apple is about being contrarian now that Apple is so popular), but I think that for most, it is a tool. They just think Apple makes better tools worth paying more for.

[Guest wellmont]

globally "most" don't think it's worth paying for. either that or they "can't" pay for it. regardless, aapl is giving up lots of the market in it's effort to remain the mercedes of smart devices. lots of people are just fine with Hondas and Toyotas. we will see if being the luxury alternative in smart tools is going to remain a winning strategy for shareholders. I maintain that investors are looking for innovation beyond smartphones and tablets from all these companies. the iphone may become the next ipod after all.

[Guest wellmont]

microsoft is a software company, ibm tech services company, etc, what is apple?

 

Apple is a devices and services (;D) company that sells a high end product experience.

 

if it's "high end" how come I can get the same "experience" with my $220 smartphone that I can with a $645 iphone? this is a faddish business. bbry can attest to that.

[Buckeye]

If you had something new, would you announce it along with your iPhone and take away attention from your most important flagship product?

 

Wasn't that exactly what Steve Jobs did every time he uttered the phrase "one more thing"?

 

http://everystevejobsvideo.com/steve-jobs-one-more-thing-complete-compilation-1999-2011/

 

I don't think so. It varied a lot.

 

That video gives a great documentation of how quickly their products become obsolete.  What was SO AMAZING 6 or 7 years ago is no big deal today...and can be bought for pennies on the dollar.  What a tough environment to operate in. 

[Palantir]

I think a larger handset would fit well into Apple's high-end product strategy - not because a larger phone is better, but, not so much Android, but rather Galaxy is the rival within the high end market, and a 4.8 inch phone would seriously hurt the GS4/5, and give Apple another excuse to sell something for a lot of money. Maybe 4.5 inches is a good compromise.

 

iPhone Mini (3.5 inch) - 450

iPhone 5/6C (4 inch) - 550

iPhone 6 (4.5-4.8 inch) - 650