AAPL - Apple Inc.

[Liberty]

If you use headphones that rarely, then the 7 wouldn't be a problem. I use headphones every day, and I just plug them in the lightning jack (the lightning Earpods that came with the phone). It's totally fine, same experience as pluging in the old jack. I end my days with about 40-50% charge on the regular 7 since the SoC is so damn power efficient, so I just never have to plug in while I listen.

 

You can also get any pair of bluetooth headphones (some for $20-30 have decent reviews on Amazon), no need to get the AirPods if price is an issue and usage is rare.

 

The 7 also comes with a headphone-jack-to-lightning adapter. You can just leave that always plugged into the end of whatever headphones (over the ears I'm guessing) you use on planes (guessing you don't fly ever week) and it'll be fine too.

 

People made way bigger a deal out of this than it was. Soon all smartphones won't have headphone jacks anyway... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[racemize]

If you use headphones that rarely, then the 7 wouldn't be a problem. I use headphones every day, and I just plug them in the lightning jack (the lightning Earpods that came with the phone). It's totally fine, same experience as pluging in the old jack. I end my days with about 40-50% charge on the regular 7 since the SoC is so damn power efficient, so I just never have to plug in while I listen.

 

You can also get any pair of bluetooth headphones (some for $20-30 have decent reviews on Amazon), no need to get the AirPods if price is an issue and usage is rare.

 

The 7 also comes in with a headphone jack to lightning adapter. You can just leave that always plugged into the end of whatever headphones (over the ears I'm guessing) you use on planes (guessing you don't fly ever week) and it'll be fine too.

 

People made way bigger a deal out of this than it was. Soon all smartphones won't have headphone jacks anyway... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Actually, I just realized the converter is the wrong way--I don't want to use other headphones in the apple port, I want to use the headphones apple provided in other devices.  So these headphones simply won't work with a standard headphone jack?  I guess I'll have to buy new headphones either way then, as my three-year-old ones probably aren't going to make it too much longer.

 

Anyway, my point is, the whole thing is a hassle.  They are non-standard and won't work with other devices, and I have to carry around multiple dongles just to use Apple's devices.  Moreover, if they were so courageous with this change, why isn't the new iphone USB-C?  That choice doesn't line up with 'courageous', it was based on how many people have USB-A ports.  So force everyone to USB-C on the macbook pros and force people to deal with non-standard headphones, but don't make the USB-C change for the iphones?  Really doesn't make any sense to me.

 

And just to clarify, I'm not an anti-Apple person.  I write patents for them for a living.  I've owned a mac for over a decade.  I bought the first iPhone and upgraded every two years until the last one.  I bought the first Apple Watch (although I don't use it anymore, but maybe the new OS is worth trying out).  I agreed with killing off floppy drives and DVD drives.  I can get behind USB-C, but they aren't implementing it across the board.  This headphone thing is just annoying.

 

[Liberty]

Actually, I just realized the converter is the wrong way--I don't want to use other headphones in the apple port, I want to use the headphones apple provided in other devices.  So these headphones simply won't work with a standard headphone jack?  I guess I'll have to buy new headphones either way then, as my three-year-old ones probably aren't going to make it too much longer.

 

If you need earphones that plug into RCA jacks, that's not hard to find and starts pretty cheap.

 

Anyway, my point is, the whole thing is a hassle.  They are non-standard and won't work with other devices, and I have to carry around multiple dongles just to use Apple's devices.  Moreover, if they were so courageous with this change, why isn't the new iphone USB-C?

 

IIRC, Apple pretty much designed the USB-C standard and gave it to the regulatory body. They're not against it. But they keep their ports a long time because there's whole ecosystem built around them and people complain a lot when they changed. Even though lightning was better than the 30-pin ports in basically every way, people still threw a fit and said Apple just wanted to sell more cables or whatever. There's less difference between Lightning and USB-C, so there's no hurry (especially since they think the preferred way to do audio is wireless, and now they have wireless charging), but I'm sure that someday when they change again, it'll be to USB-C. Or maybe to no port at all.

 

That choice doesn't line up with 'courageous', it was based on how many people have USB-A ports.  So force everyone to USB-C on the macbook pros and force people to deal with non-standard headphones, but don't make the USB-C change for the iphones?  Really doesn't make any sense to me.

 

It'll come. There's no easy way to make these changes. People complained about removing floppy drives, CD-roms, DVD roms, etc. You can never get every single product lineup and the ecosystems built around them to perfectly be timed, it's always painful, but once you're on the other side of the transition, it's usually much better. Early digital photos were way worse than film...

 

And just to clarify, I'm not an anti-Apple person.  I write patents for them for a living.  I've owned a mac for over a decade.  I bought the first iPhone and upgraded every two years until the last one.  I bought the first Apple Watch (although I don't use it anymore, but maybe the new OS is worth trying out).  I agreed with killing off floppy drives and DVD drives.  I can get behind USB-C, but they aren't implementing it across the board.  This headphone thing is just annoying.

 

Might want to upgrade the Watch, the new OSes have gotten quite a bit faster and better. Kind of like if you pulled out an original iPhone now running what was then iPhone OS, it'd look pretty rough.

[rkbabang]

Or maybe to no port at all.

 

I was actually half expecting the iPhone X to have no port at all and ship with a wireless charger.  I think that is where they will be going in the near future. There is no reason to switch to USB-C.

 

[villainx]

Or maybe to no port at all.

 

I was actually half expecting the iPhone X to have no port at all and ship with a wireless charger.  I think that is where they will be going in the near future. There is no reason to switch to USB-C.

 

don't you need a port for wherever you might go and not have a wireless charger handy?  Or no transition to USB-C, just wait out lightning until wireless becomes ubiquitous? 

[DooDiligence]

Or maybe to no port at all.

 

I was actually half expecting the iPhone X to have no port at all and ship with a wireless charger.  I think that is where they will be going in the near future. There is no reason to switch to USB-C.

 

Me too.

 

I wouldn't miss the lightning port a bit (sick of picking lint out of it once a month or so.)

 

Still using a 6 Plus & will prob wait for the next iteration of the X but I'm definitely getting a (v3) watch.

 

I'll be able to wade fish up to my friggin' neck & still have music & comms.

[rkbabang]

Or maybe to no port at all.

 

I was actually half expecting the iPhone X to have no port at all and ship with a wireless charger.  I think that is where they will be going in the near future. There is no reason to switch to USB-C.

 

don't you need a port for wherever you might go and not have a wireless charger handy?  Or no transition to USB-C, just wait out lightning until wireless becomes ubiquitous? 

 

I charge my phone either at home, in the car, or at my desk at work.  When I travel I bring a charger with me.  I could do all of that with wireless charging.  It wouldn't miss it at all, and like DooDiligence above, I'd no longer have to stick a toothpick up into it to pull the pocket lint out of it occasionally.  I think they are probably waiting for wireless to become ubiquitous (or at least a little more common than it is now) before making the switch.  I think they will stick with lightning until then.  The waiting is not very courageous of them though.

 

[DooDiligence]

Or maybe to no port at all.

 

I was actually half expecting the iPhone X to have no port at all and ship with a wireless charger.  I think that is where they will be going in the near future. There is no reason to switch to USB-C.

 

don't you need a port for wherever you might go and not have a wireless charger handy?  Or no transition to USB-C, just wait out lightning until wireless becomes ubiquitous? 

 

I charge my phone either at home, in the car, or at my desk at work.  When I travel I bring a charger with me.  I could do all of that with wireless charging.  It wouldn't miss it at all, and like DooDiligence above, I'd no longer have to stick a toothpick up into it to pull the pocket lint out of it occasionally.  I think they are probably waiting for wireless to become ubiquitous (or at least a little more common than it is now) before making the switch.  I think they will stick with lightning until then.  The waiting is not very courageous of them though.

 

I agree, they should have sucked it up & done away with the port.

 

Wireless charging is definitely a step forward.

 

It's a testament to the build that you can still rely on a nearly 3 year old 6 Plus (battery going strong & not too laggy yet...)

 

(lengthening consumer upgrade cycles & watch could begin to cannibalize sales?)

 

I'm stoked about the watch & can't believe the price!

 

Anyone got info on service plans?

 

ATT's still just showing the 1 & 2.

Verizon makes you dig for a link that leads nowhere & T-Mobile's site shows nothing.

Sprint's the only one that's on point to promote the 3 but no service plan pricing info.

[racemize]

Actually, I just realized the converter is the wrong way--I don't want to use other headphones in the apple port, I want to use the headphones apple provided in other devices.  So these headphones simply won't work with a standard headphone jack?  I guess I'll have to buy new headphones either way then, as my three-year-old ones probably aren't going to make it too much longer.

 

If you need earphones that plug into RCA jacks, that's not hard to find and starts pretty cheap.

 

I'm not totally sure this is worth continuing, but just to be clear, this means I can no longer use the headphones they provided with any other device, even with their own macbook pro, which still includes an audio jack.  So I need to go buy a set of headphones that I can use for phone calls and literally any other device (including their own devices), and then add a dongle to that to make it usable with the iPhone, instead of just using the ones that come with the product as I always have before.  I'm hoping there are reasonable audio headphones with the mic functionality and the volume functionality and the passthrough works with the adapter.  If not, they pretty much broke the functionality of the headphones for me.

 

Anyway, my point is, the whole thing is a hassle.  They are non-standard and won't work with other devices, and I have to carry around multiple dongles just to use Apple's devices.  Moreover, if they were so courageous with this change, why isn't the new iphone USB-C?

 

IIRC, Apple pretty much designed the USB-C standard and gave it to the regulatory body. They're not against it. But they keep their ports a long time because there's whole ecosystem built around them and people complain a lot when they changed. Even though lightning was better than the 30-pin ports in basically every way, people still threw a fit and said Apple just wanted to sell more cables or whatever. There's less difference between Lightning and USB-C, so there's no hurry (especially since they think the preferred way to do audio is wireless, and now they have wireless charging), but I'm sure that someday when they change again, it'll be to USB-C. Or maybe to no port at all.

 

 

That choice doesn't line up with 'courageous', it was based on how many people have USB-A ports.  So force everyone to USB-C on the macbook pros and force people to deal with non-standard headphones, but don't make the USB-C change for the iphones?  Really doesn't make any sense to me.

 

It'll come. There's no easy way to make these changes. People complained about removing floppy drives, CD-roms, DVD roms, etc. You can never get every single product lineup and the ecosystems built around them to perfectly be timed, it's always painful, but once you're on the other side of the transition, it's usually much better. Early digital photos were way worse than film...

 

It is true that thunderbolt is USB-C, but they are shipping a USB-A to thunderbolt cable with the phone.  I would have preferred USB-C all the way through, but they aren't supporting any USB-C ported cable now, while insisting that all macbook users use it.  Overall, my impression is they only remove functionality when it is convenient to them.  They removed the various drives because they wanted more room.  They got rid of the headphone jack for the same reason, but also chose not to do so on any of their other products, because it wasn't necessary for those other products.  They moved the macbook pro to one set of USB hubs so the device could be thinner and have more battery life.  But they didn't convert the shipped iphone cable to USB-C at the same time, which would actually have benefits to charging speed and be in line with their own products.  So, if it were actual courage, they would do it across the board, not for only phones (for headphone jacks) or not only for macbooks (for USB-C).

 

[Liberty]

https://stratechery.com/2017/the-lessons-and-questions-of-the-iphone-x-and-the-iphone-8/

[DooDiligence]

https://stratechery.com/2017/the-lessons-and-questions-of-the-iphone-x-and-the-iphone-8/

 

Liberty to the rescue again!

 

I forgot about that guy (he's brilliant.)

 

Anyone pay up the $100 for a sub to his site?

[Liberty]

It is true that thunderbolt is USB-C, but they are shipping a USB-A to thunderbolt cable with the phone.  I would have preferred USB-C all the way through, but they aren't supporting any USB-C ported cable now, while insisting that all macbook users use it.  Overall, my impression is they only remove functionality when it is convenient to them.  They removed the various drives because they wanted more room.  They got rid of the headphone jack for the same reason, but also chose not to do so on any of their other products, because it wasn't necessary for those other products.  They moved the macbook pro to one set of USB hubs so the device could be thinner and have more battery life.  But they didn't convert the shipped iphone cable to USB-C at the same time, which would actually have benefits to charging speed and be in line with their own products.  So, if it were actual courage, they would do it across the board, not for only phones (for headphone jacks) or not only for macbooks (for USB-C).

 

This is literally what design is. Tradeoffs. Making choices that have various pros and cons, and weighting them to find the best balance.

 

They've decided that the headphone jack was too much of a waste of space on the very space-constrained phone, especially since there were three other ways to get audio out (lighting, wireless, and speakers), and that they could make much better use of that space than by maintaining a port from the 1950s or whatever. That extra space means better battery life, better haptics, water resistance, etc. They felt that tradeoff was worth it.

 

The tradeoffs are different on a laptop, so saying they didn't remove it at the same time only means that you're designing with different variables.

 

The same thing was true with DVD drives or whatever. Is all that volume and weight best used to read DVDs, or can we use it for something that will bring more benefits to more users? At a certain point when DVD use was rare enough and almost all content could be had online or over a local network, that space was better used for extra battery life and more silent operations and one less mechanical thing to break and such.

 

But you can't always just wait for nobody to use something anymore, because things are very sticky. Sometimes you have to be the catalyst for it to die (like adobe flash on smartphones), and you get the blame for it, but in the end it's worth it.

 

But the nature of tradeoffs is that it's IMPOSSIBLE to please everybody. So if you fall in the group that isn't pleased by the change, it might seem like a bad one, but you might be looking at things too narrowly. Put yourself in Apple's position and see if you would've done things significantly differently. Remember, they have a lot of data about how people use their products and which features are used and which aren't, and about what breaks, etc.

[Liberty]

https://stratechery.com/2017/the-lessons-and-questions-of-the-iphone-x-and-the-iphone-8/

 

Liberty to the rescue again!

 

I forgot about that guy (he's brilliant.)

 

Anyone pay up the $100 for a sub to his site?

 

I'm a subscriber. He also has a podcast: http://exponent.fm

[racemize]

It is true that thunderbolt is USB-C, but they are shipping a USB-A to thunderbolt cable with the phone.  I would have preferred USB-C all the way through, but they aren't supporting any USB-C ported cable now, while insisting that all macbook users use it.  Overall, my impression is they only remove functionality when it is convenient to them.  They removed the various drives because they wanted more room.  They got rid of the headphone jack for the same reason, but also chose not to do so on any of their other products, because it wasn't necessary for those other products.  They moved the macbook pro to one set of USB hubs so the device could be thinner and have more battery life.  But they didn't convert the shipped iphone cable to USB-C at the same time, which would actually have benefits to charging speed and be in line with their own products.  So, if it were actual courage, they would do it across the board, not for only phones (for headphone jacks) or not only for macbooks (for USB-C).

 

This is literally what design is. Tradeoffs. Making choices that have various pros and cons, and weighting them to find the best balance.

 

They've decided that the headphone jack was too much of a waste of space on the very space-constrained phone, especially since there were three other ways to get audio out (lighting, wireless, and speakers), and that they could make much better use of that space than by maintaining a port from the 1950s or whatever. That extra space means better battery life, better haptics, water resistance, etc. They felt that tradeoff was worth it.

 

The tradeoffs are different on a laptop, so saying they didn't remove it at the same time only means that you're designing with different variables.

 

The same thing was true with DVD drives or whatever. Is all that volume and weight best used to read DVDs, or can we use it for something that will bring more benefits to more users? At a certain point when DVD use was rare enough and almost all content could be had online or over a local network, that space was better used for extra battery life and more silent operations and one less mechanical thing to break and such.

 

But you can't always just wait for nobody to use something anymore, because things are very sticky. Sometimes you have to be the catalyst for it to die (like adobe flash on smartphones), and you get the blame for it, but in the end it's worth it.

 

But the nature of tradeoffs is that it's IMPOSSIBLE to please everybody. So if you fall in the group that isn't pleased by the change, it might seem like a bad one, but you might be looking at things too narrowly. Put yourself in Apple's position and see if you would've done things significantly differently. Remember, they have a lot of data about how people use their products and which features are used and which aren't, and about what breaks, etc.

 

This isn't their stance though.  Their stance is they are doing the courageous thing and choosing what will come.  But they only do it when it works out for them, not across the board, so the logic simply doesn't hold.  If USB C is coming and they choose to force all macbook pro users to switch to it (I'm ok with this stance), then how is it suddenly a different decision on iphones--only one set of users should face their courage while the others it is merely a design choice?  I think they make a choice and then spin it as best they can. 

 

I also think devices should interoperate with each other from the same company, and I really don't think Jobs would have made this choice.  Anyhow, I don't think we're really discussing anything useful anymore.  I think they made a really bad set of decisions, but I'm still buying the phone.  The X looks great, and getting rid of the home button and touch ID is going to be amazing.

 

[Liberty]

Look at any past transition and show me one that went smoothly and without outcry? I remember still finding PowerPC binaries years after the x86 transition and having to run them slowly in emulation...

 

Most USB ports out there are still USB-A, so shipping the iPhone with a lightning to USB-c connector would've caused more problems than it solved, even if for the few who have brand new Macbooks it would've been better when they want to plug in their laptops (which isn't even the most common way -- most people plug in the wall at night to charge and that's it).

 

Changing the port on the phone from lightning to USB-C now would've also caused more problems than it solved since there's a huge lightning ecosystem and almost not USB-C ecosystem, and both standards are very similar, so there would be almost not benefit to the painful transition (no space saved, no increased ease of use, etc) except a few less cable to buy for a fraction of the user base.

 

The point of courage is doing things when you think they need to be done to get big benefits even if you'll get backlash. If the benefits aren't big enough, better not change just for the sake of change.

 

I'm also probably getting an X and my wife will get my 7 (she's due for an upgrade).

[DCG]

The face recognition functionality not working not working at the presentation was kinda shitty.

 

 

http://www.cnn.com/videos/cnnmoney/2017/09/13/apple-iphone-face-recognition-fail-me-sot.hln

[Liberty]

The face recognition functionality not working not working at the presentation was kinda shitty.

 

 

http://www.cnn.com/videos/cnnmoney/2017/09/13/apple-iphone-face-recognition-fail-me-sot.hln

 

There's a long and illustrious history of demo SNAFUs :D Many companies don't even dare do live demos, they just use promo videos.

 

I think there's a chance that it was because one of the demo phones hadn't been unlocked in a while, reverting to the passcode.

 

It's the same with Touch ID. If you don't use Touch ID for 8 hours (iirc), it'll ask your passcode. It makes sense from a security point of view to periodically ask for the passcode and make sure that if the phone is lost or seized, it will quickly revert to the most secure form of ID (in theory... people using shitty passwords/passcodes is another problem).

[Liberty]

Ah, looks like I was wrong, something else happened, which also sounds like good security:

 

Here’s what an Apple rep said about the debacle:

 

People were handling the device for stage demo ahead of time,” says a rep, “and didn’t realize Face ID was trying to authenticate their face. After failing a number of times, because they weren’t Craig, the iPhone did what it was designed to do, which was to require his passcode.” In other words, “Face ID worked as it was designed to.”

 

https://9to5mac.com/2017/09/13/face-id-demo-fail-details/

[DCG]

Ah, looks like I was wrong, something else happened, which also sounds like good security:

 

Here’s what an Apple rep said about the debacle:

 

People were handling the device for stage demo ahead of time,” says a rep, “and didn’t realize Face ID was trying to authenticate their face. After failing a number of times, because they weren’t Craig, the iPhone did what it was designed to do, which was to require his passcode.” In other words, “Face ID worked as it was designed to.”

 

https://9to5mac.com/2017/09/13/face-id-demo-fail-details/

 

 

That makes sense, but is something that should have been planned for.

[Liberty]

That makes sense, but is something that should have been planned for.

 

A sentence that can be applied to mistakes everywhere, yes.

[merkhet]

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/14/apple-face-id-didnt-fail-keynote/

[villainx]

Just thinking about how much the lack of home button (and touch id) harms X.  It forces another set of user interface, and no touch ID.  I think the side button could theoretically do most of the home button user functions, but I'm not sure. But I really like touch ID.  Wonder how upset Apple is that they couldn't get touch ID in. 

[racemize]

Just thinking about how much the lack of home button (and touch id) harms X.  It forces another set of user interface, and no touch ID.  I think the side button could theoretically do most of the home button user functions, but I'm not sure. But I really like touch ID.  Wonder how upset Apple is that they couldn't get touch ID in.

 

I think getting rid of touch ID and the home button is really great.  It hardly ever works flawlessly for me, and the button itself doesn't feel good anymore.  The new gestures seem really intuitive and a much better solution than the home button, personally.  I'm really looking forward to them.

[cubsfan]

https://stratechery.com/2017/the-lessons-and-questions-of-the-iphone-x-and-the-iphone-8/

 

Liberty to the rescue again!

 

I forgot about that guy (he's brilliant.)

 

Anyone pay up the $100 for a sub to his site?

 

If you own a significant amount of AAPL, like I do, then this is a must read.

 

[Liberty]

Apple's silicon design team is the best in the business:

 

http://mashable.com/2017/09/14/inside-apple-a11-bionic-and-silicon-team/