AAPL - Apple Inc.

[pau_]

Also it's worth noting that if you're a dissident, journalist, political candidate, or someone who is just generally concerned with their personal security and privacy, iPhone is currently the recommended device. Apple takes this stuff really seriously and has stood up to attempts by the FBI to get them to weaken it.

 

See for example this FAQ for journalists that's been vetted by security experts: https://techsolidarity.org/resources/basic_security.htm

 

I'm guessing Pixel probably fixes some of these things, but most android phones are poor in this respect:

[*]everything has security bugs. The cure for this is upgrading. If you bought an android phone five years ago it will be years out of date if you rely on manufacturer updates. If you bought the iPhone 5s five years ago it runs the newest iOS and will be supported when iOS12 comes out.

[*]Apple takes hardware security seriously. If someone steals your iPhone, you can be sure your data is as safe as your passcode. Apple stores encryption keys and sensitive data in a separate part of their in-house designed SOC that the OS doesn't have read access to (secure element). Apple publishes technical details about these systems.

[*]The cell modem/baseband doesn't have direct access to iOS, which is a common (bad) security design in Android.

[jondoug]

Great interchange of perceptions, product valuations, user experiences etc. among fellow CoBF board members with regard to Apple products etc. so far in this topic since the Apple new products presententation on September 12^th. Thank you a lot for sharing.

 

I'm sorry for disturbing the topic torrent here, but I actually have one question, that I simply have to ask here:

 

From what I have read recently in this topic, it appears to me to have been a serious mistake not to buy/switch to iPhone, from ie. Samsung phones a few years ago. So, my question here is for those you, who actually did choose to prodeed about a year ago with the then new iPhone X, what is now your general perception & experience with this product?

 

-Thank you in advance.

 

Not sure if I fit exactly into the profile you were looking for: After being on the iPhone 5 and 6, I moved to a Samasung S6 and then S8 for a couple of years. Switched back to iPhone X last year. I moved to Samsung from the iPhone 6 to test if Android had really had caught up with the iPhone. If you remember at that time there was talk about peak iPhone and that Android had pretty much caught up with iPhone, if not exceeded, in terms of display and user friendly features. Also, I always like Google Maps and also wanted to see if I move completely into the Google ecosystem if my experience will be great within Android. I am a tech professional and if switching was tough for me, it would definitely be very tough for the average iPhone user. There wasn't a big reason for me to switch, expect that I wanted to try it myself to see if it is possible that Apple users could really move away in droves to a different OS.

 

When I first switched, I was liking the experience. I didn't care about privacy at that time, gave all access to Google and found Google Now was very useful. I get notified seamlessly about my trips, I got my calendar pretty much in sync (we use Google Apps for our work). There were some annoyances, specific to Samsung like not moving to the latest Android version and a dedicated button for Bixby their version of Siri/Google Assistant etc.

 

But as time progressed I realized I was spending way more time with performance issues, rebooting the phone and also battery life was degrading significantly. I moved from S6 to S8 and again the same thing happened, in a year found it progressively degrading. S8 also has an image unlock feature, but I found it very unreliable and switched to the touch feature.

 

This year I switched back to iPhone X, effectively after two years on Android and I have been very happy with the switch. The Face ID feature is awesome, battery lasts a long time and of course we all know the phone will last quite a long time. My old iPhone 5 and 6 are still in use among extended family members.

 

Overall the tight coupling between software and hardware goes a long way in making the iPhone experience unmatched. Maybe Google will eventually come out with a Pixel phone that will match Apple in that respect, but that's a long way away.

 

 

 

 

[John Hjorth]

jondoug,

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to phrase a reply to me! -I really appreciate it very much! - There is certainly something to think about, from my personal perspective, going forward.

 

- - - o 0 o - - -

 

Hereby a belated welcome to you here on CoBF! - Please don't be a stranger!

[rkbabang]

Also it's worth noting that if you're a dissident, journalist, political candidate, or someone who is just generally concerned with their personal security and privacy, iPhone is currently the recommended device. Apple takes this stuff really seriously and has stood up to attempts by the FBI to get them to weaken it.

 

See for example this FAQ for journalists that's been vetted by security experts: https://techsolidarity.org/resources/basic_security.htm

 

I'm guessing Pixel probably fixes some of these things, but most android phones are poor in this respect:

[*]everything has security bugs. The cure for this is upgrading. If you bought an android phone five years ago it will be years out of date if you rely on manufacturer updates. If you bought the iPhone 5s five years ago it runs the newest iOS and will be supported when iOS12 comes out.

[*]Apple takes hardware security seriously. If someone steals your iPhone, you can be sure your data is as safe as your passcode. Apple stores encryption keys and sensitive data in a separate part of their in-house designed SOC that the OS doesn't have read access to (secure element). Apple publishes technical details about these systems.

[*]The cell modem/baseband doesn't have direct access to iOS, which is a common (bad) security design in Android.

 

Yes Apple takes security seriously and that is another reason I'm staying with iPhone.  I use a strong password and have it set to erase the phone on 10 wrong attempts.  I do use faceID and love it which is a security hole, but iPhone X has a nice feature that if you hold the buttons on both sides down (like when you take it out of your pocket, or while its still in your pocket and the police are walking towards you, etc) it will disable faceID and require your password. 

[rkbabang]

Great interchange of perceptions, product valuations, user experiences etc. among fellow CoBF board members with regard to Apple products etc. so far in this topic since the Apple new products presententation on September 12^th. Thank you a lot for sharing.

 

I'm sorry for disturbing the topic torrent here, but I actually have one question, that I simply have to ask here:

 

From what I have read recently in this topic, it appears to me to have been a serious mistake not to buy/switch to iPhone, from ie. Samsung phones a few years ago. So, my question here is for those you, who actually did choose to prodeed about a year ago with the then new iPhone X, what is now your general perception & experience with this product?

 

-Thank you in advance.

 

I can't comment on iPhone in comparison to android, because I've never owned an android phone.  So far I've had an iPhone 5, 5S, 6S, and now I've had the X for almost a year.  The X is the best phone I've owned by a long shot.  The screen is amazing, faceID is so much easier than finger print recognition, the battery lasts forever (compared with my previous phones). With the 6S I charged it overnight and it was dead by noon, then I charged it at work and it was dead by 5pm, I charged it in my car and it was dead before I went to bed.  With my X I charge it at night and that is all.  It still has charge when I go to bed.  The camera is great.  Apps open quickly and everything runs smoothly.  As I said I don't know how all this compares to android.  But I see no reason to switch.  I don't like apple maps, but I use Waze anyway and I have google maps installed too.  I don't like apple's email app, so I use google inbox.  I really have no complaints with it.

 

[SlowAppreciation]

Great interchange of perceptions, product valuations, user experiences etc. among fellow CoBF board members with regard to Apple products etc. so far in this topic since the Apple new products presententation on September 12^th. Thank you a lot for sharing.

 

I'm sorry for disturbing the topic torrent here, but I actually have one question, that I simply have to ask here:

 

From what I have read recently in this topic, it appears to me to have been a serious mistake not to buy/switch to iPhone, from ie. Samsung phones a few years ago. So, my question here is for those you, who actually did choose to prodeed about a year ago with the then new iPhone X, what is now your general perception & experience with this product?

 

-Thank you in advance.

 

It's a great product.

 

"I have nothing further to add".

[Spekulatius]

Others focus on creating the best list of specs on paper.

 

Apple focus on creating the best products in actual use.

 

I couldn't agree more

 

i laugh when i hear people talk about somebody else's phone has a higher megapixel camera...  as if people are printing them out ... people just share photos on FB and Instagram these days....  it's the dynamic range, richness of the colour, etc that makes a camera great.

 

Apple hardware never had the best specs. Maybe the exception are the Apple iPhone processors, which are clearly the best. I am not an Apple fanboy, but I know and have compared  iPads with Android tablets, and the iPads beet those Android tablets hands down. I also converted from Android to the iPhone 8+ last year and I am quite happy with the results. the Spple excosystem just worked with less issues and friction and overall thenuswr experience is better. It‘s hard to put really nail it to a few things, it’s just a bit better throughout. I also think that Spples hardware has a longer lifespan. I have used iPads for 4+ years, my wife is still on an iPhone 6 and it just works (she is due tomorrow an upgrade this year) and will hand her phone to my son. The premium paid for comparable Android hardware is probably 10-20% and given the total cost of ownership for a phone and the longevity (or better resale if you do that) , it’s probably close to zero.

[RichardGibbons]

Funny, my experience is the exact opposite of what most people were saying on this thread. I went from Apple to Android, and I vastly preferred Android. Too often, it seemed like Apple was designing its software to get in the way. Essentially, they were making it more difficult for me to do what I want to do. I think they did this sometimes because of incompetence and sometime because a bad user experience could make them more money. In their ecosystem, I felt more like a sucker waiting to be fleeced than a valued customer.

[villainx]

Funny, my experience is the exact opposite of what most people were saying on this thread. I went from Apple to Android, and I vastly preferred Android. Too often, it seemed like Apple was designing its software to get in the way. Essentially, they were making it more difficult for me to do what I want to do. I think they did this sometimes because of incompetence and sometime because a bad user experience could make them more money. In their ecosystem, I felt more like a sucker waiting to be fleeced than a valued customer.

 

When did you go to Android?  I can see why someone might say Android is better if it's earlier in the iPhone cycle. 

 

Just curious.

[Gilp]

Seems like most of the users like their iPhones.

I'm based outside US, here it's less important as social status, some people prefer to use iPhones but if you don't none will treat as outsider.

 

As for value for money and also my personal preference, freedom of customization, freedom of choice, managing the device and some other features, I prefer android.

 

There is a very good and growing lineup of Android One devices. They use "pure" android, get all the recent updates and tend to be fast and secure. Great value for money as well:

https://www.androidcentral.com/these-are-android-one-phones-available-today

 

As for premium devices, I would go with OnePlus phones or Xiaomi Mi 8 line(and now they made the Pocophone F1, one of the best value for money available there currently), also recent Nokia phones starting to look really well. They offer much better value than Samsung devices IMO.

[Jurgis]

Seems like most of the users like their iPhones.

I'm based outside US, here it's less important as social status, some people prefer to use iPhones but if you don't none will treat as outsider.

 

As for value for money and also my personal preference, freedom of customization, freedom of choice, managing the device and some other features, I prefer android.

 

There is a very good and growing lineup of Android One devices. They use "pure" android, get all the recent updates and tend to be fast and secure. Great value for money as well:

https://www.androidcentral.com/these-are-android-one-phones-available-today

 

As for premium devices, I would go with OnePlus phones or Xiaomi Mi 8 line(and now they made the Pocophone F1, one of the best value for money available there currently), also recent Nokia phones starting to look really well. They offer much better value than Samsung devices IMO.

 

You guys should not interrupt the iPhone love fest going on in this thread. You may hurt my stock holdings.  8)  ;D  ::)  :P

 

 

[Gilp]

You guys should not interrupt the iPhone love fest going on in this thread. You may hurt my stock holdings.  8)  ;D  ::)  :P

 

Ohh yeah, of course. Apple introduced the most advanced iPhones ever!

 

"Cupertino, California — Apple today announced iPhone Xs and iPhone Xs Max, the most advanced iPhones ever, taking the vision for the future of the smartphone to a new level."

 

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2018/09/iphone-xs-and-iphone-xs-max-bring-the-best-and-biggest-displays-to-iphone/

 

 

[fareastwarriors]

Seems like most of the users like their iPhones.

I'm based outside US, here it's less important as social status, some people prefer to use iPhones but if you don't none will treat as outsider.

 

As for value for money and also my personal preference, freedom of customization, freedom of choice, managing the device and some other features, I prefer android.

 

There is a very good and growing lineup of Android One devices. They use "pure" android, get all the recent updates and tend to be fast and secure. Great value for money as well:

https://www.androidcentral.com/these-are-android-one-phones-available-today

 

As for premium devices, I would go with OnePlus phones or Xiaomi Mi 8 line(and now they made the Pocophone F1, one of the best value for money available there currently), also recent Nokia phones starting to look really well. They offer much better value than Samsung devices IMO.

 

Where do you live?

[RichardGibbons]

When did you go to Android?  I can see why someone might say Android is better if it's earlier in the iPhone cycle. 

 

 

I had iPhones 4s and 6.

 

[Gilp]

@fareastwarriors in Israel, and spent some time in South East Asia as well.

[gary17]

Has anyone looked at Apple's cash flows statements

i was wondering if anyone knows why the "other current and non current liabilities" are a much bigger number this latest quarter at about $ 37B.  I can't seem to find any notes explaining what this is... i'm trying to figure out their change in working capitals and this number is making their 'owners earnings' really high!

[gfp]

It's the 9 months figure you are looking at, which looks to have been mostly generated in the 1st quarter (ending 12/30/2017), reflecting "deferred income tax benefit."

 

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/000032019318000007/a10-qq1201812302017.htm

 

 

"Deemed Repatriation Tax

As of September 30, 2017, the Company had a U.S. deferred tax liability of $36.4 billion for deferred foreign income. As a result of the deemed repatriation tax, which is based on the Company’s total post-1986 deferred foreign income, the Company replaced $36.1 billion of its U.S. deferred tax liability with a provisional tax payable of $38.0 billion. The estimate of the deemed repatriation tax is based, in part, on the amount of cash and other specified assets anticipated to be held by the Company’s foreign subsidiaries as of September 29, 2018. As a result, the final amount may change as the amounts are finalized. The Company plans to pay the tax payable in installments in accordance with the Act."

[Liberty]

http://austinmann.com/trek/iphone-xs-camera-review-zanzibar

[Viking]

For board members who hold multinational companies like Apple, what is your thinking on the trade skirmish between the US and China? Is it part of your investment thesis or is it something you are ignoring?

 

I wonder if we are not in the very early innings of this skirmish and it may be with us indefinitely (as the cold war was). Should the skirmish escalate i am not sure how it does not impact US multinationals.

 

Companies are likely coming to understand that having 100% of their production in China is a highly risky strategy. It makes sense to me that more companies will chose to diversify their supply chain and it makes sense to me more production will be returning to the US (at the margin).

[plato1976]

I agree with you.

It's just insane to put the whole supply chain in China. As a supply-chain master Cook should feel shameful he didn't move at least part of it outside of China as a hedge, no matter how difficult it is

 

Now I would like to say the risk is not to lose China as a market, but to hang your life on its supply chain. Yes I know if China retaliate by cutting Apply's supply chain it will suffer greatly as well......

[Liberty]

I agree with you.

It's just insane to put the whole supply chain in China. As a supply-chain master Cook should feel shameful he didn't move at least part of it outside of China as a hedge, no matter how difficult it is

 

Now I would like to say the risk is not to lose China as a market, but to hang your life on its supply chain. Yes I know if China retaliate by cutting Apply's supply chain it will suffer greatly as well......

 

The supply chain isn't all in China. Final assembly and some parts are made in China, but a lot of the value of the products is from outside China (most of it, in fact). Lots of hardware from Japan and South-Korea, almost all software and design from the US, services are mostly hosted outside China (except for the China market), etc.

 

I'm not saying it would be easy to do assembly elsewhere than China because of the massive scale of Apple and because there's a lot of know-how in China that hasn't been as developped elsewhere, but to say that it's all in China is misleading.

 

I also think the trade skirmish is mostly by choice at this point. Sure China has been a bad actor and should be pressured and cajoled to do better, but there's no reason except politics why both countries couldn't be in a win-win relationship.

[Spekulatius]

I agree with you.

It's just insane to put the whole supply chain in China. As a supply-chain master Cook should feel shameful he didn't move at least part of it outside of China as a hedge, no matter how difficult it is

 

Now I would like to say the risk is not to lose China as a market, but to hang your life on its supply chain. Yes I know if China retaliate by cutting Apply's supply chain it will suffer greatly as well......

 

It’s not just losing the supply chain that would hurt Apple; China represents also 20% of Apple‘s revenues (although that contribution has been shrinking over the last few years). Losing or even gettting handicapped in this market would hurt quite a bit.

[villainx]

Foxconn is Taiwanese, right?  That's not China - depending how you look at it.

[Viking]

Liberty, i think the issue with China is they are a communist country and their values system is completely different from the West. There is no rule of law. As their economy gets larger and they become more powerful they will dictate more and do more things that conflict with our value system.

 

The US has a window right now to exert influence over China. Is this short term or longer? Time will tell.

 

There are 2 issues for multinationals:

1.) supply chain

2.) sales in China - if the US and Chine get into a nasty trade war i am not sure how that does not hurt US companies selling into China (as Spekulatius says)

[rb]

Foxconn is Taiwanese, right?  That's not China - depending how you look at it.

Yea... Foxconn is a Taiwanese company. But the iPhone is made at Foxconn's gigafactory is Shenzhen.