Guest wellmont Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Suing a company for not spending their cash? Only in America. no. he is suing them because they have a plan to eliminate pref stock. but someone should sue them for hoarding cash too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCG Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Suing a company for not spending their cash? Only in America. no. he is suing them because they have a plan to eliminate pref stock. but someone should sue them for hoarding cash too. oh. I'd rather them hoard cash than blow it on stupid acquisitions, airplanes and other crap like some other companies though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wellmont Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Suing a company for not spending their cash? Only in America. no. he is suing them because they have a plan to eliminate pref stock. but someone should sue them for hoarding cash too. oh. I'd rather them hoard cash than blow it on stupid acquisitions, airplanes and other crap like some other companies though. I would rather have them give it to owners. they've bought their airplanes already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palantir Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Meh, I think they need to focus on making good products, and devote their energy to develop new ones rather than worrying about what to do with their cash hoard. It's not like Apple has been a decades long dog. It has been like the best performing stock in the universe, if investors are :'( :'( because they aren't getting cash returning to them, they are not appropriate "partners" for Apple management. I think it would be "nice" if AAPL increased payout, but I'm more concerned with the business operations as a driver of value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wellmont Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Meh, I think they need to focus on making good products, and devote their energy to develop new ones rather than worrying about what to do with their cash hoard. It's not like Apple has been a decades long dog. It has been like the best performing stock in the universe, if investors are :'( :'( because they aren't getting cash returning to them, they are not appropriate "partners" for Apple management. I think it would be "nice" if AAPL increased payout, but I'm more concerned with the business operations as a driver of value. it doesn't take a lot of "energy" to return cash. many people use energy and "multi task". I am sure apple bod can do that too. these people are caretakers for the shareholders but don't realize it yet. management doesn't own the cash. their actions demonstrate disregard for the owners. they will be sued more if they keep this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palantir Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 But that's the thing. The management does own the cash. Apple is only a public company in theory. Really, it is a private company that just happens to be public. I'm not convinced that shareholder opinions should be given a lot of weight compared to management opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wellmont Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 But that's the thing. The management does own the cash. Apple is only a public company in theory. Really, it is a private company that just happens to be public. I'm not convinced that shareholder opinions should be given a lot of weight compared to management opinions. it's not a private company. it's a public company. management owns very little stock, which they were given. management did a good job. but many of those people are gone. this is a new unproven management. and so far the stock is way down, and they are being sued by the people that own the company. I guarantee this has got their attention. somebody needs to go in and educate them on how to be stewards of capital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palantir Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 But this management is not unproven. They have been with the firm for over a decade and are in large part responsible for its success and its high stock price. They deserve to run the company as they see fit. The cash does not directly belong to shareholders, it belongs to the company, and it is the management's responsibility to decide what to do with the cash. Are shareholders really going to try to change management? Bring back John Sculley? (I jest) No offense, but if shareholders try to get too smart with Apple and try to change their strategy, that will be a mistake. I'm afraid David Einhorn is not qualified to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmichaud Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Nothing we don't already know....but Cramer is so dumb..... http://www.cnbc.com/id/100442685 He'd rather have Apple buy Twitter or Netflix in order to boost the growth rate. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palantir Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I agree with Cramer, he seems to have a better grasp of what Apple should do than many critics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wellmont Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 But this management is not unproven. They have been with the firm for over a decade and are in large part responsible for its success and its high stock price. They deserve to run the company as they see fit. The cash does not directly belong to shareholders, it belongs to the company, and it is the management's responsibility to decide what to do with the cash. Are shareholders really going to try to change management? Bring back John Sculley? (I jest) No offense, but if shareholders try to get too smart with Apple and try to change their strategy, that will be a mistake. I'm afraid David Einhorn is not qualified to decide. cook is unproven as a CEO. he is unproven as a capital allocator, the primary activity of the CEO. lots of the people that got apple to where they are today are gone. one could argue that the product portfolio that apple has today is insufficient to protect shareholders capital in the future. the value of the company is very dependent on the success of one product that exists in a rapidly changing industry. if apple management tries to be too "smart" and ignore owners, they will be sued more and perhaps removed. it's quite unprecedented to sue a company like this. I would take notice of that monumental event. if I was apple CEO I would stop worrying about what screen is going to go on the ipad mini and start worrying about david einhorn and larry haverty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Partner24 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Suing for having too much cash, suing for having not enough cash. Complaining because Uncle Sam used taxpayers money to save the system and then complaining because Uncle Sam made some profits in some transactions. What's next? Suing because the company did not make XX.XX earnings per share last quarter as analysts tought? When will suing will replace baseball as the national sport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palantir Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 cook is unproven as a CEO. he is unproven as a capital allocator, the primary activity of the CEO. lots of the people that got apple to where they are today are gone. one could argue that the product portfolio that apple has today is insufficient to protect shareholders capital in the future. the value of the company is very dependent on the success of one product that exists in a rapidly changing industry. if apple management tries to be too "smart" and ignore owners, they will be sued more and perhaps removed. it's quite unprecedented to sue a company like this. I would take notice of that monumental event. His job is NOT capital allocation. His job is to ensure that Apple remain a vibrant company who continually makes good products and services. That is THE value driver, and why they have risen to such prominence that we talk about them. Capital allocation is very low on his priority list. if I was apple CEO I would stop worrying about what screen is going to go on the ipad mini and start worrying about david einhorn and larry haverty. If he starts worrying about Einhorn and Haverty, people who know nothing about Apple and have no business telling him what to do, instead of what the screen on the iPhone Mini should look like, that is the end of this firm. Then in that case, I'm not joking about bringing back John Sculley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericd1 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I would like to believe Apple's management knows very well they are holding a lot of cash and they more than likely have a plan for it. Why should management divulge their plans. I don't care until they prove to me they are poor capital allocators. So far, doing nothing isn't a problem. Think what our government would do if they suddenly found a stash of cash like Apple has...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olmsted Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I agree that Cook's primary focus should be on the product and the core business. That said... Is it really too much to ask for? To ask management to run the core business and be good stewards of the shareholders' capital? I don't think so. I actually think that's the definition of what a CEO/BoD are supposed to do. Since when have our expectations of corporate governance sank so low? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCG Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 If I was apple CEO I would stop worrying about what screen is going to go on the ipad mini and start worrying about david einhorn and larry haverty. I'm very glad you're not the CEO then. When management starts managing for individual shareholders, I want out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Suing a company for not spending their cash? Only in America. no. he is suing them because they have a plan to eliminate pref stock. but someone should sue them for hoarding cash too. oh. I'd rather them hoard cash than blow it on stupid acquisitions, airplanes and other crap like some other companies though. True! At least they aren't like Dell and blowing it on acquisitions or buybacks way higher than fair value. They haven't done anything stupid yet with the money, and they've added a dividend which will probably be increased again this year. Yes, I would like them to return capital, but at the same time, they haven't done anything dumb. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Suing for having too much cash, suing for having not enough cash. Complaining because Uncle Sam used taxpayers money to save the system and then complaining because Uncle Sam made some profits in some transactions. What's next? Suing because the company did not make XX.XX earnings per share last quarter as analysts tought? When will suing will replace baseball as the national sport? LOL! I couldn't agree more. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 If I was apple CEO I would stop worrying about what screen is going to go on the ipad mini and start worrying about david einhorn and larry haverty. I'm very glad you're not the CEO then. When management starts managing for individual shareholders, I want out. Yup! Einhorn is the present day whiny, spoiled brat...just in value investor garb. That being said, I would like a fatter dividend from Apple...at least double what they are paying now. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wellmont Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 If I was apple CEO I would stop worrying about what screen is going to go on the ipad mini and start worrying about david einhorn and larry haverty. I'm very glad you're not the CEO then. When management starts managing for individual shareholders, I want out. when management starts managing for themselves, they get sued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 If I was apple CEO I would stop worrying about what screen is going to go on the ipad mini and start worrying about david einhorn and larry haverty. I'm very glad you're not the CEO then. When management starts managing for individual shareholders, I want out. when management starts managing for themselves, they get sued. When management ignores the business and the products, guess what? Stock goes down in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wellmont Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 If I was apple CEO I would stop worrying about what screen is going to go on the ipad mini and start worrying about david einhorn and larry haverty. I'm very glad you're not the CEO then. When management starts managing for individual shareholders, I want out. when management starts managing for themselves, they get sued. When management ignores the business and the products, guess what? Stock goes down in the long run. they are paid extraordinary well to do both. and the stock is down partly because of their unfriendly shareholder policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 If I was apple CEO I would stop worrying about what screen is going to go on the ipad mini and start worrying about david einhorn and larry haverty. I'm very glad you're not the CEO then. When management starts managing for individual shareholders, I want out. when management starts managing for themselves, they get sued. When management ignores the business and the products, guess what? Stock goes down in the long run. they are paid extraordinary well to do both. and the stock is down partly because of their unfriendly shareholder policies. Its not a question of pay, its a question of focus. I think stock buybacks are a no brainer at these prices. Unless they have some big uses for their cash. They need to focus on fixing some of their product problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikx01 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I did not understand the idea of the preferreds (4% or thereabouts and perpetual) being better than share buyback. Sure, a large portion of the cash is overseas; so, buybacks would be require repatriation (and consequent leakage via tax) but so would the coupon on the preferreds. Is it that the coupon will be in future and there is at least some possibility (however small) of an tax-amnesty for cash repatriation. Why are preferreds better than buyback? Any explanation will be highly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wellmont Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I did not understand the idea of the preferreds (4% or thereabouts and perpetual) being better than share buyback. Sure, a large portion of the cash is overseas; so, buybacks would be require repatriation (and consequent leakage via tax) but so would the coupon on the preferreds. Is it that the coupon will be in future and there is at least some possibility (however small) of an tax-amnesty for cash repatriation. Why are preferreds better than buyback? Any explanation will be highly appreciated. DE thinks it's better because it does not require aapl to actually distribute the cash on their balance sheet. it allows them to continue to hoard it as is their inclination, at the same time rewarding shareholders with a new piece of paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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