Liberty Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I think they did the right thing from a business POV. I'd sure love to see the iPhone 5, but they shouldn't tip their hand faster than they have to. competitors are still catching up to the iPhone 4, and the 4S will make that even harder. So they can keep the 5 under wraps until they need it more. Same with iPad 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest misterstockwell Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I think they did the right thing from a business POV. I'd sure love to see the iPhone 5, but they shouldn't tip their hand faster than they have to. competitors are still catching up to the iPhone 4, and the 4S will make that even harder. So they can keep the 5 under wraps until they need it more. Same with iPad 3. What? You think they are holding back? That would be so stupid. Competitors have caught up, and surpassed iPhone4. The 4S simply fixes the problems spots on the the 4. If people wait in line for this, my faith in humanity will be completely lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I'm going to pre-order this Friday.... And wait in line to pick it up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I don't think anyone has caught up to the iPhone 4 when it comes to the whole package (the integration of design+hardware specs+UI+apps+content). Some phones have better specs, or similar design, etc.. But none give quite the same experience to the average user IMHO. And I say that as a fan of Android as a strong second. Holding back makes a ton of sense. Just look at the iPhone -> iPhone 3G -> iPhone 3GS sequence. You squeeze a lot more money out of the same design and investment. Why reinvent the iPhone every year and a half if you don't have to? Why let your competitors know what new features you've been working on sooner than you have to? Chances are the 4S costs them significantly less to produce than did the original iPhone 4 when it came out, so even if they don't see as much over the holidays as if they had the 5, they can still make a lot of dough. In short, I think that if someone was holding their feet to the fire and kicking their ass, they probably would have had an iPhone 5 ready for the holidays this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest misterstockwell Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I'm going to pre-order this Friday.... And wait in line to pick it up... Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txlaw Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 That was a pretty underwhelming unveiling. I figured that Apple wouldn't bring out an iPhone 5 because they won't release a 4G device until the carriers give them the go ahead. Don't think the carriers can handle a 4G iPhone at this time. However, I expected the new iPhone to at least be thinner or have NFC built into it. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the Nexus Prime and the Windows Mango phones that come out in the next couple of months. Also, the Siri assistant doesn't seem to be ready for prime time. That creepy robot voice doesn't really fit well with the aesthetic of the iPhone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCG Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I agree with Liberty. Regarding them holding back, I don't think that means that they have the 'iPhone5' fully designed and everything and don't want to release it yet; I think they've probably been experimenting with different design options but don't think they have anything they want to rush out yet. The main things missing that people were hoping for with the iPhone5 are true '4G'(although Apple claims the 4GS is as fast as what other companies are calling 4G) and a larger screen. Otherwise, the hardware specs are pretty much what people were looking for. '4G/LTE rollout is still months away in most places. And changing the screen size can be tricky. App developers have to redesign apps to display/function better on a larger screen (while also designing for people who would have the current models). This is a problem with Android. There are lots of different screen sizes out there and not all apps display well on all of them. And the design of the iPhone4 is very good. As Liberty said, there's really no need to redesign it every year & 1/2. I plan on getting the 4S in a couple weeks (fyi..I currently have an older Android phone - I'm not saying I would upgrade to the 4S from the iPhone4 if I had one). I think the iPhone4S looks better than any other phone out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I think they did the right thing from a business POV. I'd sure love to see the iPhone 5, but they shouldn't tip their hand faster than they have to. competitors are still catching up to the iPhone 4, and the 4S will make that even harder. So they can keep the 5 under wraps until they need it more. Same with iPad 3. What? You think they are holding back? That would be so stupid. Competitors have caught up, and surpassed iPhone4. The 4S simply fixes the problems spots on the the 4. If people wait in line for this, my faith in humanity will be completely lost. I don't think they're holding back. Their industrial design cycles are 2 years long. Thats how long it takes them to perfect a new design. If they could've introduced a new form factor, they would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 That was a pretty underwhelming unveiling. I figured that Apple wouldn't bring out an iPhone 5 because they won't release a 4G device until the carriers give them the go ahead. Don't think the carriers can handle a 4G iPhone at this time. However, I expected the new iPhone to at least be thinner or have NFC built into it. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the Nexus Prime and the Windows Mango phones that come out in the next couple of months. Also, the Siri assistant doesn't seem to be ready for prime time. That creepy robot voice doesn't really fit well with the aesthetic of the iPhone. It didn't seem underwhelming to me: http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/siri.html A lot of features they are introducing were announced at the last event. But make no mistake, they've made big, big changes. Their biggest being the cloud features. It is a big move both technically and strategically. This is no longer an itunes-centric system. They're also promoting a new cloud architecture. Before this, that cloud was mostly coupled with web applications. Apple is saying - the cloud is just a service that can be integrated with any application, web or not. You can pick the best interface - web or native - and still integrate with the cloud. This is very different from the architecture the Google is promoting which is a web-based cloud. This has far reaching implications for the industry. Note the above relates to consumer applications, not enterprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tradevestor Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 First real competition to ipad. http://img.ibtimes.com/www/articles/20111004/225021_amazon-kindle-fire-preorder-touch-3g-silk.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombgrt Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 First real competition to ipad. http://img.ibtimes.com/www/articles/20111004/225021_amazon-kindle-fire-preorder-touch-3g-silk.htm And they aren't even selling in Europe... ( :( ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I don't think they're holding back. Their industrial design cycles are 2 years long. Thats how long it takes them to perfect a new design. If they could've introduced a new form factor, they would have. Depends how you define holding back. So far they haven't really had to because they've never been really too threatened, so you can call it their normal cruising speed. But I'm pretty sure they aren't going flat out and releasing new major upgrades as soon as they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I don't think they're holding back. Their industrial design cycles are 2 years long. Thats how long it takes them to perfect a new design. If they could've introduced a new form factor, they would have. Depends how you define holding back. So far they haven't really had to because they've never been really too threatened, so you can call it their normal cruising speed. But I'm pretty sure they aren't going flat out and releasing new major upgrades as soon as they can. Not really threatened? Android is gaining marketshare. Jobs himself has told employees "Make no mistake, Google wants to kill the iPhone". I'm pretty sure they understand the threats. Where do you see evidence that they are not working as hard as they can to release their products quickly? In fact, I see evidence to the contrary. This release has a LOT of new features and far-reaching changes in the architecture, likely to have taken a longer implementation cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hester Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 No company is going to kill Apple through imitation products. None. The brand is too strong, too "cool" right now, and besides the products are pretty damn good to begin with and tough to even imitate at a lower price and add much value. The only thing that will kill apple is failure of future innovation. That will kill it's brand and customer loyalty. Eventually the product cycle will work it's magic and the current Apple products will start to look more and more like the walkman does now. There is no question in 10 years Apple will need different products, the question is can they innovate without Jobs and keep the same level of success and profitibility. They eventually have to replicate an entire line of extremely popular products on a massive level, before we even talk about long term growth. I think it's a long shot. But they can coast on their current products for the next few years and Job smay or may not be with the company so there is no reason to short. But when I see an article or someone say something like "product XYZ is an Ipad/Iphone killer" I laugh. The products are too good, brand too strong right now. The only Iphone killer will be the inevitable advancement of technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hester Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 "Amazon unveiled its new iPad competitor, the Kindle Fire! I'm gonna use mine to order the new iPhone!" -Steven Colbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Not really threatened? Android is gaining marketshare. Jobs himself has told employees "Make no mistake, Google wants to kill the iPhone". I'm pretty sure they understand the threats. I agree with you on what we could call the 'macro' level, but on the 'micro' level, sales of the iPhone 4 are still very strong and nobody else has the combination of integration of design+hardware specs+UI+apps+content that I mentioned earlier. The competition has gotten better, but the iPhone is still more than competitive and so even without a new generation it can still sell quite well, squeezing more out of what was invested in producing it. In aggregate Android has nice market share, but on a phone-to-phone level, the iPhone dominates (including in margins per phone), and as long as it's a leader with consumers, releasing something completely new would be kind of a waste if they can squeeze more out of the current model with a refresh. Where do you see evidence that they are not working as hard as they can to release their products quickly? In fact, I see evidence to the contrary. This release has a LOT of new features and far-reaching changes in the architecture, likely to have taken a longer implementation cycle. What are those changes you talk about? I see they integrated the Siri acquisition, they used the iPad 2's chip with some tweaks, they improved the camera, and there's iOS 5 and iCloud which they've been working on for a while. This is a long list and hard to achieve, but it's nothing compared to going from, say, the iPhone 3 to the iPhone 4. I think they could probably go faster than they do because most of their innovations are modular (and the way these things work, they probably had 5 iPhone 5 external designs in the oven by the time the iPhone 4 hit the shelves). I mean that you can include X features in the next generation or X+Y or whatever. So an iPhone 5 released today might have had X new features while one released in 1 year will have X+Y features because of the longer lead time. If they were really getting their ass kicked in the marketplace by a new entrant or whatever, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have just a refreshed iPhone 4 for the biggest quarter of the year. But I can't be sure of that, nor can you, so we'll probably never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 What are those changes you talk about? Watch the whole video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9046oXrm7f8 They just changed their vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 What are those changes you talk about? I see they integrated the Siri acquisition, they used the iPad 2's chip with some tweaks, they improved the camera, and there's iOS 5 and iCloud which they've been working on for a while. This is a long list and hard to achieve, but it's nothing compared to going from, say, the iPhone 3 to the iPhone 4. Watch this: http://9to5mac.com/2011/10/03/co-founder-of-siri-assistant-is-a-world-changing-event-interview/ And then watch this: http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/siri.html There is a BIG difference, this integrates almost every aspect of IOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 It doesn't change anything to what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCG Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I think you guys are mostly arging the same thing. I don't think theory are necessarily holding back, but they are not rushing out un-perfected/finished products (like RIM does) just for the the sake of appeasing tech bloggers and other media. AAPL stock is getting super cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 It doesn't change anything to what I said. Read this: http://disruptivewireless.blogspot.com/2011/10/my-suspicions-on-iphone-delays-chipset.html You're making the same mistake that everyone else is - you're judging the book by its cover. You're looking at the exterior design of the iPhone and saying "Meh, nothing much changed". Not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 It doesn't change anything to what I said. Read this: http://disruptivewireless.blogspot.com/2011/10/my-suspicions-on-iphone-delays-chipset.html You're making the same mistake that everyone else is - you're judging the book by its cover. You're looking at the exterior design of the iPhone and saying "Meh, nothing much changed". Not true. You're putting words in my mouth, I never said nothing changed or that what mattered was the external design. I just said that from the 4 to the 4S the step was smaller than from the 3 to the 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liberty Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 This patent crap is going to far, on all sides: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-05/samsung-to-seek-ban-on-iphone-4s-sales-in-france-italy-in-patent-dispute.html Can't wait for a big reform, hopefully throwing out 90% of software patents and changing the rules for the creation of new ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerbaron Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Here is a funny statement from a friend of mine in China that wanted me to buy him a iPhone 5. That tells us the perception of the 4s, not that one opinion has any impact on the future of Apple... Ok,Jim Cook said Apple Inc. has not iphone5 to sell your guys,We said we have not money to buy your funny toy iphone4s. I believed that Apple is getting Waterloo... BeerBaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAllen Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I wonder what the reaction would have been if they had called this the iPhone 5? Everything is vastly improved except for the shape of the exterior! Are iPhones for looking at or for using?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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