Steve Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 I bought some more Apple options this week... Jan 15 LEAPS - 500 strike. Leon Cooperman's trade on Apple a few months ago... I did the math he was referring to the Jan 14 options: http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000167529 Bill Miller's comments on Apple LEAPS before before the capital allocation announcement: http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2013/03/15/aapl-rising-despite-ubs-sterne-agee-target-cuts/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardincap Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Silly. This ad is running everywhere. Why would cook spend tens of millions on an ad to an unintended audience?? Think different is actually a great ad and a great message Apple's ads sucking: http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/27/designed-by-apple-in-california-ads-rank-poorly-in-consumer-survey Yes, that is according to agency hired by Samsung :P BTW, those are not necessarily targeted at consumers. You said that Cook should be doing more PR. This is it. Its right in front of you. That ad is Cook's message. What he will do and what he won't. It is a lot like the message Jobs sent in the "Think Different' campaign when he took over Apple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Silly. This ad is running everywhere. Why would cook spend tens of millions on an ad to an unintended audience?? Think different is actually a great ad and a great message Apple's ads sucking: http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/27/designed-by-apple-in-california-ads-rank-poorly-in-consumer-survey Yes, that is according to agency hired by Samsung :P BTW, those are not necessarily targeted at consumers. You said that Cook should be doing more PR. This is it. Its right in front of you. That ad is Cook's message. What he will do and what he won't. It is a lot like the message Jobs sent in the "Think Different' campaign when he took over Apple. Because it is a message for employees, press , bloggers, investors, partners,app developers and consumers. It is Cook's message and it is relevant to the current circumstance. Think about what it means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardincap Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Silly. This ad is running everywhere. Why would cook spend tens of millions on an ad to an unintended audience?? Think different is actually a great ad and a great message Apple's ads sucking: http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/27/designed-by-apple-in-california-ads-rank-poorly-in-consumer-survey Yes, that is according to agency hired by Samsung :P BTW, those are not necessarily targeted at consumers. You said that Cook should be doing more PR. This is it. Its right in front of you. That ad is Cook's message. What he will do and what he won't. It is a lot like the message Jobs sent in the "Think Different' campaign when he took over Apple. Because it is a message for employees, press , bloggers, investors, partners,app developers and consumers. It is Cook's message and it is relevant to the current circumstance. Think about what it means. i dont need to think about what it means. i understand apple. the reason why this is a terrible commercial is because consumers dont care about apple's design methodology, they want to see its manifestations (products). app developers, partners, bloggers, investment analysts already understand apple's design methodology. cook said exactly the same thing in the quarterly conference call in 09, when he first took over as interim CEO. google it. this ad is kind of like saying "trust us, we'll build a product you'll like." may be useful to build brand recognition, but useless if youre already the #1 brand in the world. "think different" was great because apple was desperately trying to survive and it helped them build their brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MYDemaray Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I have no position here, but this is the type of ad I would expect to see to counter, say the Foxconn reputation, that their products are just sweatshop devices...seems to me it's trying to recapture some of the halo of product integrity. Just my thoughts...if it were any other company I'd guess they had a "consumer insight" into this reputational aspect...with Apple, I have no idea if they try to gauge their customers that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 i dont need to think about what it means. i understand apple. the reason why this is a terrible commercial is because consumers dont care about apple's design methodology, they want to see its manifestations (products). app developers, partners, bloggers, investment analysts already understand apple's design methodology. cook said exactly the same thing in the quarterly conference call in 09, when he first took over as interim CEO. google it. this ad is kind of like saying "trust us, we'll build a product you'll like." may be useful to build brand recognition, but useless if youre already the #1 brand in the world. "think different" was great because apple was desperately trying to survive and it helped them build their brand. Every time you hear someone say Apple is not innovating because they don't have feature x, y, z they don't get Apple. Every time you hear someone say that Apple should release product x because a competitor has released it ,they don't get Apple. Every time you hear someone say Apple should do X because they are losing market share, they don't get Apple. Every time you hear someone say Apple should do X because their share price has dropped, they don't get Apple. Every time you hear someone say Apple is not innovating because they haven't released anything new since the iPad, they don't get Apple. Apple will release something only when they think it is good and only when they are ready. Read back on this thread and you will see why Tim Cook is sending that message. Read any tech blog, any business magazine and you will see why he is sending that message. Like I said before, consumers are not the primary target. The ads are on TV because they are the most efficient way to reach all constituencies. You will see ads targeted to consumers when they release their new products. Stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I watched the Samsung 4S launch a couple of months ago; very Korean feel to it with lots of over the top glam. Interesting to see Apple promoting its US ties in a much more subtle way: designed by Apple in California, make Mac Pro in US. The majority of Apple's profits are iphone; they dominate phone sales in the US market. Looks to me like the ad campaign is looking to consolidate their position in the US market; personally, I liked the ads (not a big reaction either way, but definitely not negative). I do see some nationalism creeping into both Samsung and Apple which is not surprising especially given the stakes involved. Both Korean and US governments want their company to 'win' and I am sure they are doing what they can behind the scenes to help the local. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I watched the Samsung 4S launch a couple of months ago; very Korean feel to it with lots of over the top glam. Interesting to see Apple promoting its US ties in a much more subtle way: designed by Apple in California, make Mac Pro in US. The majority of Apple's profits are iphone; they dominate phone sales in the US market. Looks to me like the ad campaign is looking to consolidate their position in the US market; personally, I liked the ads (not a big reaction either way, but definitely not negative). I do see some nationalism creeping into both Samsung and Apple which is not surprising especially given the stakes involved. Both Korean and US governments want their company to 'win' and I am sure they are doing what they can behind the scenes to help the local. Apple might be promoting its US base because it is lobbying for repatriation of international cash. But the message is more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpRaider Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Wouldn't you start manufacturing in the US if your foreign contract manufacturers were "developing" their own competing phones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardincap Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 read my message again. apple is picky?? no shit, they havent done anything in 10 months. people dont care about what apple thinks, they want them to do x,y,z anyway. i disagree on most things but agree on some.. 10 month lull w/o any major product release is too long, and i suspect management now understands that. androids ARE getting competitive. apple is rapidly losing leverage against carriers (docomo said as much on wsj). htc one is a great phone and its making apple's loyalty rate show cracks (i have a disturbing number of friends who switched and love it). ios7 is looking like it could be delayed looking at how buggy it is now. so it may be even longer than 12 months w/o new products. i dont need to think about what it means. i understand apple. the reason why this is a terrible commercial is because consumers dont care about apple's design methodology, they want to see its manifestations (products). app developers, partners, bloggers, investment analysts already understand apple's design methodology. cook said exactly the same thing in the quarterly conference call in 09, when he first took over as interim CEO. google it. this ad is kind of like saying "trust us, we'll build a product you'll like." may be useful to build brand recognition, but useless if youre already the #1 brand in the world. "think different" was great because apple was desperately trying to survive and it helped them build their brand. Every time you hear someone say Apple is not innovating because they don't have feature x, y, z they don't get Apple. Every time you hear someone say that Apple should release product x because a competitor has released it ,they don't get Apple. Every time you hear someone say Apple should do X because they are losing market share, they don't get Apple. Every time you hear someone say Apple should do X because their share price has dropped, they don't get Apple. Every time you hear someone say Apple is not innovating because they haven't released anything new since the iPad, they don't get Apple. Apple will release something only when they think it is good and only when they are ready. Read back on this thread and you will see why Tim Cook is sending that message. Read any tech blog, any business magazine and you will see why he is sending that message. Like I said before, consumers are not the primary target. The ads are on TV because they are the most efficient way to reach all constituencies. You will see ads targeted to consumers when they release their new products. Stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palantir Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Apple might be promoting its US base because it is lobbying for repatriation of international cash. But the message is more than that. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wellmont Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 it's not even about smartphones and tablets and laptops anymore. it's a given that Android is competitive, and in fact dominates outside of N/A. Windows is only getting stronger. It's really about what's next. Do you have anything going on besides maturing smartphones and tablets? And right now appl has not shown their cards. They are being opaque about innovation, and have decided to concentrate on fluffy soft messages. read my message again. apple is picky?? no shit, they havent done anything in 10 months. people dont care about what apple thinks, they want them to do x,y,z anyway. i disagree on most things but agree on some.. 10 month lull w/o any major product release is too long, and i suspect management now understands that. androids ARE getting competitive. they no longer have leverage against carriers (docomo said as much on wsj). htc one is a great phone and its making apple's loyalty rate show cracks (i have a disturbing number of friends who switched and love it). ios7 is looking like it could be delayed looking at how buggy it is now. so it may be even longer than 12 months w/o new products. i dont need to think about what it means. i understand apple. the reason why this is a terrible commercial is because consumers dont care about apple's design methodology, they want to see its manifestations (products). app developers, partners, bloggers, investment analysts already understand apple's design methodology. cook said exactly the same thing in the quarterly conference call in 09, when he first took over as interim CEO. google it. this ad is kind of like saying "trust us, we'll build a product you'll like." may be useful to build brand recognition, but useless if youre already the #1 brand in the world. "think different" was great because apple was desperately trying to survive and it helped them build their brand. Every time you hear someone say Apple is not innovating because they don't have feature x, y, z they don't get Apple. Every time you hear someone say that Apple should release product x because a competitor has released it ,they don't get Apple. Every time you hear someone say Apple should do X because they are losing market share, they don't get Apple. Every time you hear someone say Apple should do X because their share price has dropped, they don't get Apple. Every time you hear someone say Apple is not innovating because they haven't released anything new since the iPad, they don't get Apple. Apple will release something only when they think it is good and only when they are ready. Read back on this thread and you will see why Tim Cook is sending that message. Read any tech blog, any business magazine and you will see why he is sending that message. Like I said before, consumers are not the primary target. The ads are on TV because they are the most efficient way to reach all constituencies. You will see ads targeted to consumers when they release their new products. Stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpRaider Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Hey The ad campaign is cheaper than driverless cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 read my message again. apple is picky?? no shit, they havent done anything in 10 months. people dont care about what apple thinks, they want them to do x,y,z anyway. i disagree on most things but agree on some.. 10 month lull w/o any major product release is too long, and i suspect management now understands that. androids ARE getting competitive. apple is rapidly losing leverage against carriers (docomo said as much on wsj). htc one is a great phone and its making apple's loyalty rate show cracks (i have a disturbing number of friends who switched and love it). ios7 is looking like it could be delayed looking at how buggy it is now. so it may be even longer than 12 months w/o new products. There ya go. Cook has sent s message loud and clear that they are sticking to their values. So, don't expect faster release cycles when he tells you that they are going to be picky. Don't expect him to be more transparent when he has told you they're going to double down on secrecy. He has told you what he is going to do. If you don't agree, don't hold the stock. If you think Android has caught up, don't hold the stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardincap Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 the apple halo effect is clearly putting you on the exuberant optimism side. apple can do no harm. not release a product for 16 months? its their "values", leave them alone. where do you draw the line? read my message again. apple is picky?? no shit, they havent done anything in 10 months. people dont care about what apple thinks, they want them to do x,y,z anyway. i disagree on most things but agree on some.. 10 month lull w/o any major product release is too long, and i suspect management now understands that. androids ARE getting competitive. apple is rapidly losing leverage against carriers (docomo said as much on wsj). htc one is a great phone and its making apple's loyalty rate show cracks (i have a disturbing number of friends who switched and love it). ios7 is looking like it could be delayed looking at how buggy it is now. so it may be even longer than 12 months w/o new products. There ya go. Cook has sent s message loud and clear that they are sticking to their values. So, don't expect faster release cycles when he tells you that they are going to be picky. Don't expect him to be more transparent when he has told you they're going to double down on secrecy. He has told you what he is going to do. If you don't agree, don't hold the stock. If you think Android has caught up, don't hold the stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 the apple halo effect is clearly putting you on the exuberant optimism side. apple can do no harm. not release a product for 16 months? its their "values", leave them alone. where do you draw the line? I didn't say anything about optimism. I agree with what he is doing. If I was in his shoes, I would do exactly the same thing. If he is making a mistake, I would make the same mistake. That is a big reason why I hold the stock. I understand what makes them successful. I understand that to release products at the quality that meets their standards, it takes a lot longer than 16 months. I know the company, its culture, its history and the motivations of people who work there. I am not asking you to leave them alone. I am saying don't expect them to do the opposite of what he told you he would do. If you conclude that what he is doing is wrong, you would conclude that you are going to lose money. Then you should se the stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardincap Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 you dont have to say you're optimistic. its on full display. not releasing ANY major product in 16 months in this business is idiotic. you better be prepared to buy back a ton of stock because its going to get punished. one way apple can redeem themselves is by having bought back a disproportionate amount of stock in Q3 relative to their end of '15 buyback completion date. as a shareholder i would be very disappointed if they didnt do this. you can agree on strategy but disagree on tactics. i wont go into everything i disagree w apple on; my point earlier was that the commercial was terrible compared to their past ones. and you can disagree on tactics but still be bullish on the stock. biz performance is not based on innovation, its based on future cash flows. they're not the same. I didn't say anything about optimism. I agree with what he is doing. If I was in his shoes, I would do exactly the same thing. If he is making a mistake, I would make the same mistake. That is a big reason why I hold the stock. I understand what makes them successful. I understand that to release products at the quality that meets their standards, it takes a lot longer than 16 months. I know the company, its culture, its history and the motivations of people who work there. I am not asking you to leave them alone. I am saying don't expect them to do the opposite of what he told you he would do. If you conclude that what he is doing is wrong, you would conclude that you are going to lose money. Then you should se the stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 you dont have to say you're optimistic. its on full display. not releasing ANY major product in 16 months in this business is idiotic. you better be prepared to buy back a ton of stock because its going to get punished. one way apple can redeem themselves is by having bought back a disproportionate amount of stock in Q3 relative to their end of '15 buyback completion date. as a shareholder i would be very disappointed if they didnt do this. you can agree on strategy but disagree on tactics. i wont go into everything i disagree w apple on; my point earlier was that the commercial was terrible compared to their past ones. and you can disagree on tactics but still be bullish on the stock. biz performance is not based on innovation, its based on future cash flows. they're not the same. I didn't say anything about optimism. I agree with what he is doing. If I was in his shoes, I would do exactly the same thing. If he is making a mistake, I would make the same mistake. That is a big reason why I hold the stock. I understand what makes them successful. I understand that to release products at the quality that meets their standards, it takes a lot longer than 16 months. I know the company, its culture, its history and the motivations of people who work there. I am not asking you to leave them alone. I am saying don't expect them to do the opposite of what he told you he would do. If you conclude that what he is doing is wrong, you would conclude that you are going to lose money. Then you should se the stock. What % of your portfolio is Apple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 So people get it? http://kensegall.com/2013/06/the-joy-of-apple-bashing/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardincap Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 so spending millions on an ad saying the same thing cook's been saying since '09 will change that? people tend to form something called opinions. So people get it? http://kensegall.com/2013/06/the-joy-of-apple-bashing/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardincap Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 So people get it? http://kensegall.com/2013/06/the-joy-of-apple-bashing/ segall on the commercial: Of course the new commercial is meant to have an uplifting effect on the employees, as any good ad should do. But this ad is clearly targeting Apple's customers, who have been bombarded with a surging Samsung and a never-ending stream of dire forecasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 So people get it? http://kensegall.com/2013/06/the-joy-of-apple-bashing/ segall on the commercial: Of course the new commercial is meant to have an uplifting effect on the employees, as any good ad should do. But this ad is clearly targeting Apple's customers, who have been bombarded with a surging Samsung and a never-ending stream of dire forecasts. I disagree. What % of your portfolio is Apple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardincap Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 why does that matter? i am bullish on the stock and its reflected in my portfolio. im also bullish on the company as well. forstall leaving was good. ive is the real inventor of iphone+ipad and has the midas touch. tim cook is a terrible promotor, but an incredible operator. phil schiller needs to get better at marketing. we can see him trying - he chose to do a sneak peak of the mac pro (when does apple ever do that?) to show that innovation isnt dead. he talked to the press before s4 launch. but his message is not clear, focused, nor compelling. i dont blame cook entirely for letting negative perception get out of hand, schiller takes plenty of blame as head of marketing. on capital allocation, apple went from horrendous to just a bit better than mediocre. they could be buying back alot more stock. schiller probably leaked the iwatch thing too. So people get it? http://kensegall.com/2013/06/the-joy-of-apple-bashing/ segall on the commercial: Of course the new commercial is meant to have an uplifting effect on the employees, as any good ad should do. But this ad is clearly targeting Apple's customers, who have been bombarded with a surging Samsung and a never-ending stream of dire forecasts. I disagree. What % of your portfolio is Apple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 why does that matter? i am bullish on the stock and its reflected in my portfolio. im also bullish on the company as well. forstall leaving was good. ive is the real inventor of iphone+ipad and has the midas touch. tim cook is a terrible promotor, but an incredible operator. phil schiller needs to get better at marketing. we can see him trying - he chose to do a sneak peak of the mac pro (when does apple ever do that?) to show that innovation isnt dead. he talked to the press before s4 launch. but his message is not clear, focused, nor compelling. i dont blame cook entirely for letting negative perception get out of hand, schiller takes plenty of blame as head of marketing. on capital allocation, apple went from horrendous to just a bit better than mediocre. they could be buying back alot more stock. schiller probably leaked the iwatch thing too. Because I think you are a lot more optimistic about Apple than I am ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest valueInv Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Here's the actual story behind "Think Different": http://www.forbes.com/sites/onmarketing/2011/12/14/the-real-story-behind-apples-think-different-campaign/ Segall is right about one thing - Its not like Steve Jobs is single handedly responsible for Apple's success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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