AAPL - Apple Inc.

[PlanMaestro]

Apple has alienated two of the largest mobile carriers in the world

http://bgr.com/2013/07/16/apple-carrier-relations-analysis/

[Guest valueInv]

Apple sure has some catching up to do:

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2013/07/android_vs_iphone_why_apple_still_has_the_edge_over_google_s_operating_system.single.html

[Parsad]

Apple sure has some catching up to do:

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2013/07/android_vs_iphone_why_apple_still_has_the_edge_over_google_s_operating_system.single.html

 

All that article states is that the carriers tend to bastardize the esthetics of the operating system, when they try and make them their own.  You'll notice that it doesn't mention at all that Android is bad...only that Google's Android OS is not uniform between devices like they are on Apple devices. 

 

Even you have to admit that where Android and Android devices were 2-3 years ago, seems like a couple of generations ago in the IT world.  Not unlike how cars made by Hyundai in the 80's and early 90's are light years away from the cars they make today that win all sorts of awards.  Android devices won't get worse...they will only get better. 

 

Apple and it's rabid fans should avoid discounting the competition, because the competition is coming up fast...just like Apple came up fast on the competition during Job's 2nd reign.  There is no place for complacency in the IT world.  Cheers!   

[Guest valueInv]

Apple sure has some catching up to do:

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2013/07/android_vs_iphone_why_apple_still_has_the_edge_over_google_s_operating_system.single.html

 

All that article states is that the carriers tend to bastardize the esthetics of the operating system, when they try and make them their own.  You'll notice that it doesn't mention at all that Android is bad...only that Google's Android OS is not uniform between devices like they are on Apple devices. 

 

Even you have to admit that where Android and Android devices were 2-3 years ago, seems like a couple of generations ago in the IT world.  Not unlike how cars made by Hyundai in the 80's and early 90's are light years away from the cars they make today that win all sorts of awards.  Android devices won't get worse...they will only get better. 

 

Apple and it's rabid fans should avoid discounting the competition, because the competition is coming up fast...just like Apple came up fast on the competition during Job's 2nd reign.  There is no place for complacency in the IT world.  Cheers! 

 

Android devices in practice are no where  near. Apart from the crap that Manjoo mentions, apparmetlt S4 has two versions of many apps - one version that has the Samsung eye scrolling etc enabled and another that does not. They made the phone so comped that they had to include an "easy mode".

 

 

Btw, I own a Hyundai. One the surface it looks awesome. But after owning it for a white your start noticing things- the clock is not good at keeping time, the AC temperature controls are not properly calibrated, the wheels lose grip easily, the Bluetooth can't stream music, etc.

 

[Parsad]

Apple sure has some catching up to do:

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2013/07/android_vs_iphone_why_apple_still_has_the_edge_over_google_s_operating_system.single.html

 

All that article states is that the carriers tend to bastardize the esthetics of the operating system, when they try and make them their own.  You'll notice that it doesn't mention at all that Android is bad...only that Google's Android OS is not uniform between devices like they are on Apple devices. 

 

Even you have to admit that where Android and Android devices were 2-3 years ago, seems like a couple of generations ago in the IT world.  Not unlike how cars made by Hyundai in the 80's and early 90's are light years away from the cars they make today that win all sorts of awards.  Android devices won't get worse...they will only get better. 

 

Apple and it's rabid fans should avoid discounting the competition, because the competition is coming up fast...just like Apple came up fast on the competition during Job's 2nd reign.  There is no place for complacency in the IT world.  Cheers! 

 

Android devices in practice are no where  near. Apart from the crap that Manjoo mentions, apparmetlt S4 has two versions of many apps - one version that has the Samsung eye scrolling etc enabled and another that does not. They made the phone so comped that they had to include an "easy mode".

 

 

Btw, I own a Hyundai. One the surface it looks awesome. But after owning it for a white your start noticing things- the clock is not good at keeping time, the AC temperature controls are not properly calibrated, the wheels lose grip easily, the Bluetooth can't stream music, etc.

 

Correct, but they have caught up to the Japanese, Americans and in many cases the Germans.  Just like no one wanted to buy a "Jap" car in the United States 30 years ago, no one wanted to buy a Korean car 15 years ago.  Guess what?

 

I like Apple...I own only Apple stock (no Google, no Microsoft, no Blackberry, no Nokia)...I own only an iPhone and would not go to any other phone right now.  But guess what I'm noticing?  Many of my friends who turned me onto Apple phones five years ago, are now using Android phones!  I don't know why, but they are.  I don't like them, other than the large screen, but they are buying them up and switching phones. 

 

So, it doesn't matter whether you and I like the esthetics, the technology or the company...the fact remains that Android is hurting Apple's competitors and in time will hurt Apple if things remain the same.  Cheers!

[rkbabang]

Apple sure has some catching up to do:

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2013/07/android_vs_iphone_why_apple_still_has_the_edge_over_google_s_operating_system.single.html

 

All that article states is that the carriers tend to bastardize the esthetics of the operating system, when they try and make them their own.  You'll notice that it doesn't mention at all that Android is bad...only that Google's Android OS is not uniform between devices like they are on Apple devices. 

 

Even you have to admit that where Android and Android devices were 2-3 years ago, seems like a couple of generations ago in the IT world.  Not unlike how cars made by Hyundai in the 80's and early 90's are light years away from the cars they make today that win all sorts of awards.  Android devices won't get worse...they will only get better. 

 

Apple and it's rabid fans should avoid discounting the competition, because the competition is coming up fast...just like Apple came up fast on the competition during Job's 2nd reign.  There is no place for complacency in the IT world.  Cheers! 

 

Android devices in practice are no where  near. Apart from the crap that Manjoo mentions, apparmetlt S4 has two versions of many apps - one version that has the Samsung eye scrolling etc enabled and another that does not. They made the phone so comped that they had to include an "easy mode".

 

 

Btw, I own a Hyundai. One the surface it looks awesome. But after owning it for a white your start noticing things- the clock is not good at keeping time, the AC temperature controls are not properly calibrated, the wheels lose grip easily, the Bluetooth can't stream music, etc.

 

Correct, but they have caught up to the Japanese, Americans and in many cases the Germans.  Just like no one wanted to buy a "Jap" car in the United States 30 years ago, no one wanted to buy a Korean car 15 years ago.  Guess what?

 

I like Apple...I own only Apple stock (no Google, no Microsoft, no Blackberry, no Nokia)...I own only an iPhone and would not go to any other phone right now.  But guess what I'm noticing?  Many of my friends who turned me onto Apple phones five years ago, are now using Android phones!  I don't know why, but they are.  I don't like them, other than the large screen, but they are buying them up and switching phones. 

 

So, it doesn't matter whether you and I like the esthetics, the technology or the company...the fact remains that Android is hurting Apple's competitors and in time will hurt Apple if things remain the same.  Cheers!

 

I've noticed the same thing.  People who were the first I knew to own iPhones years ago are now using Android.

 

My commuting car is a 2007 Hyundai Elantra.  I bought it new in 2007 and it now has 130k miles and runs great.  It doesn't have the best fit and finish, it isn't a BMW, but I change the oil 3 times per year and change the tires every 75K miles and it gets me to work everyday and back.  For a car I paid $15K for right off the showroom floor, I can't complain. I'd probably buy another one.  No frills, reliable and an overall good value for your money.

BTW, I've never experienced the issues valueInv is having. I never noticed a problem with my clock keeping time, my radio doesn't have bluetooth and I don't have climate control. I don't know about wheels losing grip easily?  Buy better tires, I noticed a difference when I put better tires on at 75K miles.

 

 

 

[Palantir]

Sigh. Why must every prediction be all or nothing? Android and Apple can both do well, and hold strong in their own respective customer bases. Apple is targeting a premium market, and will have lower marketshare....doesn't mean Apple is dead.....

[Guest valueInv]

Correct, but they have caught up to the Japanese, Americans and in many cases the Germans.  Just like no one wanted to buy a "Jap" car in the United States 30 years ago, no one wanted to buy a Korean car 15 years ago.  Guess what?

 

I like Apple...I own only Apple stock (no Google, no Microsoft, no Blackberry, no Nokia)...I own only an iPhone and would not go to any other phone right now.  But guess what I'm noticing?  Many of my friends who turned me onto Apple phones five years ago, are now using Android phones!  I don't know why, but they are.  I don't like them, other than the large screen, but they are buying them up and switching phones. 

 

So, it doesn't matter whether you and I like the esthetics, the technology or the company...the fact remains that Android is hurting Apple's competitors and in time will hurt Apple if things remain the same.  Cheers!

 

We're talking about two different things. I am talking about the product, you are talking about buyer behavior. Buyers are driven by many factors include product, quality, price, advertising, distribution and a whole slew of factors.

 

Android the product provides a poor user experience if it comes loaded with crapware, if it too complex for users, etc. Apple is way ahead in these metrics. That is why is won better ratings in Korea even though Samsung dominates. Manjoo is writing about the product, not buyer behavior. "catching up" refers to the product.

 

Here is a great example:

 

http://www.scmagazine.com/android-flaw-allows-hijack-of-any-app-to-go-unnoticed/article/302497/

http://www.scmagazine.com//as-users-await-permanent-fixes-researchers-help-address-android-master-key-vulnerabilities/article/303659/

 

They've discovered one of the  security holes in Android phones. Except Google can't fix it because they have to create a fix (easy), get manufactures to patch it to their versions of Android and then distribute it to operators who will take their own sweet time pushing it out. This will probably take months and a big chunk of phones out there will never get the fix. In the mean time, the phones are sitting ducks.

 

So a simple thing like applying a security patch is a challenge.

 

Funny thing is people say Apple needs to catch up while competitors business models are built around copying Apple:

http://obamapacman.com/2013/07/samsung-galaxy-tab-3-copied-ipad-mini-thin-border-design-samesung/

 

 

[Palantir]

ValueInv, I would not get too giddy. Given that MS and GOOG have disappointed the street, good chance AAPL will do the same.

 

 

Anyways, I am long all three of them.

[Guest valueInv]

ValueInv, I would not get too giddy. Given that MS and GOOG have disappointed the street, good chance AAPL will do the same.

 

 

Anyways, I am long all three of them.

 

I am anxiously hoping that Apple will disappoint.

I would be very disappointed if they end up buying back stock at high prices.

 

But where are those elaborate theories about commoditization, moats and disruption.

 

We need some people to rationalize this fast. ;)

[txlaw]

ValueInv, I would not get too giddy. Given that MS and GOOG have disappointed the street, good chance AAPL will do the same.

 

 

Anyways, I am long all three of them.

 

I am anxiously hoping that Apple will disappoint.

I would be very disappointed if they end up buying back stock at high prices.

 

But where are those elaborate theories about commoditization, moats and disruption.

 

We need some people to rationalize this fast. ;)

 

And yet you post with glee when any other tech company "disappoints."  ::)

[Guest valueInv]

ValueInv, I would not get too giddy. Given that MS and GOOG have disappointed the street, good chance AAPL will do the same.

 

 

Anyways, I am long all three of them.

 

I am anxiously hoping that Apple will disappoint.

I would be very disappointed if they end up buying back stock at high prices.

 

But where are those elaborate theories about commoditization, moats and disruption.

 

We need some people to rationalize this fast. ;)

 

And yet you post with glee when any other tech company "disappoints."  ::)

 

Confirms my thesis in both cases.

[Guest wellmont]

ValueInv, I would not get too giddy. Given that MS and GOOG have disappointed the street, good chance AAPL will do the same.

 

 

Anyways, I am long all three of them.

 

I am anxiously hoping that Apple will disappoint.

I would be very disappointed if they end up buying back stock at high prices.

 

But where are those elaborate theories about commoditization, moats and disruption.

 

We need some people to rationalize this fast. ;)

 

And yet you post with glee when any other tech company "disappoints."  ::)

 

except even after the so called disappointment, goog is still up over 27% for the year. Pre-disappointment, aapl is down Almost 20% for the year. I wonder if aapl shareholders are in for even More disappointment after they report?

[txlaw]

ValueInv, I would not get too giddy. Given that MS and GOOG have disappointed the street, good chance AAPL will do the same.

 

 

Anyways, I am long all three of them.

 

I am anxiously hoping that Apple will disappoint.

I would be very disappointed if they end up buying back stock at high prices.

 

But where are those elaborate theories about commoditization, moats and disruption.

 

We need some people to rationalize this fast. ;)

 

And yet you post with glee when any other tech company "disappoints."  ::)

 

Confirms my thesis in both cases.

 

How does disappointing relative to expectations confirm your theses on those companies?

 

You should be dissecting the operating metrics and new biz developments instead.

[txlaw]

ValueInv, I would not get too giddy. Given that MS and GOOG have disappointed the street, good chance AAPL will do the same.

 

 

Anyways, I am long all three of them.

 

I am anxiously hoping that Apple will disappoint.

I would be very disappointed if they end up buying back stock at high prices.

 

But where are those elaborate theories about commoditization, moats and disruption.

 

We need some people to rationalize this fast. ;)

 

And yet you post with glee when any other tech company "disappoints."  ::)

 

except even after the so called disappointment, goog is still up over 27% for the year. Pre-disappointment, aapl is down Almost 20% for the year. I wonder if aapl shareholders are in for even More disappointment after they report?

 

I'm assuming this comment was directed at ValueInv, but I'm going to respond nevertheless. 

 

It really doesn't matter what expectations are or what the price action has been in the short term.  We should be looking at operating metrics and business developments, and ignoring those trading-oriented market factors.

[Guest wellmont]

 

I'm assuming this comment was directed at ValueInv, but I'm going to respond nevertheless. 

 

It really doesn't matter what expectations are or what the price action has been in the short term.  We should be looking at operating metrics and business developments, and ignoring those trading-oriented market factors.

 

agreed. when you characterize a report as a "miss" you are comparing st results to a set of expectations that wall street sell side analysts have set. My point was that shareholders should focus on longer term data points and business metrics. But others may have a different agenda.

[Guest valueInv]

ValueInv, I would not get too giddy. Given that MS and GOOG have disappointed the street, good chance AAPL will do the same.

 

 

Anyways, I am long all three of them.

 

I am anxiously hoping that Apple will disappoint.

I would be very disappointed if they end up buying back stock at high prices.

 

But where are those elaborate theories about commoditization, moats and disruption.

 

We need some people to rationalize this fast. ;)

 

And yet you post with glee when any other tech company "disappoints."  ::)

 

Confirms my thesis in both cases.

 

How does disappointing relative to expectations confirm your theses on those companies?

 

You should be dissecting the operating metrics and new biz developments instead.

 

Thats exactly what I am doing, in addition to financial metrics. I have long said that companies like FB are going to add new channels and new inventory to the advertising business. That is going to push down prices and margins. Take a look at Google's numbers. The stock isn't down much.

 

I told you way back that you can't trust Dell's management. I also told you that the cloud will create problems Dell's server business. HAve you been following the new developments?

 

I have told you that it is unlikely that RIM will be able to win back marketshare. I also told you that the cloud, M2M, MDM were BS buzzwords. Have you been looking at the new developments?

 

I have told you that the new Windows was a wildcard. That they were taking a huge risk. I told you that MSFT entering the hardware business would fracture their relationships and erode their strengths. Have you been following?

 

And Apple, oh, Apple. The blitzkrieg will start this fall, maybe with a whimper first or maybe with a show of force.   

 

Keep watching  ;)

[Guest valueInv]

Oh and BTW, I told you a while back that the high end was saturating. And you posted this elaborate theory saying it wasn't.

 

How you been following new developments?

[texual]

What if this new Blitzkrieg happens this fall, and the stock keeps going down? What if AAPL stays range bound for the next 7-12 years?

[Guest valueInv]

What if this new Blitzkrieg happens this fall, and the stock keeps going down? What if AAPL stays range bound for the next 7-12 years?

 

I would live for that to happen and Apple keep buying back stock.

[txlaw]

I have told you that the new Windows was a wildcard. That they were taking a huge risk. I told you that MSFT entering the hardware business would fracture their relationships and erode their strengths. Have you been following?

 

I disagree that they took a huge risk with making Windows 8 the way it is.  I think they had to radically depart from the conventional desktop OS in order to stave off the competition.  Going hybrid was the right way to go -- otherwise, they risk losing even more market share going forward than they will. 

 

However, the execution on Windows 8 was just poor -- very poor.  That's the issue.

 

Surface was necessary to illustrate to the market how to get the most out of Windows 8.  It was a step that MSFT had to take because the OEMs simply weren't cutting it.  The OEMs and MSFT continue to be frienemies, just like AAPL and Samsung are frienemies.  They are still tied to each other, as we can see from the results in the PC market.  However, the thread to MSFT is that the OEMs start going with Android or other solutions.  Just take a look at HP's plans for Android tablets.  Why do you think MSFT is involved in the DELL deal as a financing partner?

 

 

 

[txlaw]

Oh and BTW, I told you a while back that the high end was saturating. And you posted this elaborate theory saying it wasn't.

 

How you been following new developments?

 

Again, you mischaracterize my posts.

 

I never said the "high end" of the market wasn't saturating in NA.  What I said was that the size of the "high end" (really, "high priced") market is shrinking because the difference between "mid-range" phones and "high end" phones is disappearing. 

 

The bottom line is that I was arguing that ASPs should be decreasing substantially for phone sales going forward not simply because of saturation on the high end and segmentation, but because customers will be paying much less for phones going forward because the technology is good enough. 

 

Put another way, if you have 3 out of 5 smartphone purchasers buying what you would call "high end" phones now, at least 2 of those 3 could easily go with "mid-range" phones going forward as they refresh their devices.

[Guest wellmont]

I have told you that the new Windows was a wildcard. That they were taking a huge risk. I told you that MSFT entering the hardware business would fracture their relationships and erode their strengths. Have you been following?

 

Surface was necessary to illustrate to the market how to get the most out of Windows 8.  It was a step that MSFT had to take because the OEMs simply weren't cutting it.  The OEMs and MSFT continue to be frienemies, just like AAPL and Samsung are frienemies.  They are still tied to each other, as we can see from the results in the PC market.  However, the thread to MSFT is that the OEMs start going with Android or other solutions.  Just take a look at HP's plans for Android tablets.  Why do you think MSFT is involved in the DELL deal as a financing partner?

 

I don't see the OEMs writing off almost $1b of hardware in a quarter. if this was an attempt to "teach" the OEMs how to do it, I give them an F.

[txlaw]

I have told you that the new Windows was a wildcard. That they were taking a huge risk. I told you that MSFT entering the hardware business would fracture their relationships and erode their strengths. Have you been following?

 

Surface was necessary to illustrate to the market how to get the most out of Windows 8.  It was a step that MSFT had to take because the OEMs simply weren't cutting it.  The OEMs and MSFT continue to be frienemies, just like AAPL and Samsung are frienemies.  They are still tied to each other, as we can see from the results in the PC market.  However, the thread to MSFT is that the OEMs start going with Android or other solutions.  Just take a look at HP's plans for Android tablets.  Why do you think MSFT is involved in the DELL deal as a financing partner?

 

I don't see the OEMs writing off almost $1b of hardware in a quarter. if this was an attempt to "teach" the OEMs how to do it, I give them an F.

 

Depends on whether the write-down was due solely to hardware design or due to other factors.  IMO, the hardware design was fine.  I think the problem was: 

 

-Windows RT appears to be the worst of both worlds.

-The pricing was off.  They were charging an awful lot for Surface RT devices given the competition both from the market leader (AAPL) and from the OEMs.  The value proposition was not there for most consumers.

-Only selling it physically in MSFT stores upon launch was a mistake that killed any chance of selling more of their inventory at the high prices they started at.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually have to write down the Surface Pro inventory as well, due to decreased pricing.  I rarely see any of them in the wild, and I think it's because there are so many good convertibles that one can go with instead.

[Parsad]

Tx & Value, I've gotten numerous complaints about the slagging going on, so I've spent the last 10 minutes deleting posts that I'm sure you both laboriously put together to point out each other's numerous deficiencies!  ;D  If both of you know so much, how come one has been wrong on DELL for 12 months and the other one has been wrong on AAPL for 12 months.  I'm guessing it's because like the rest of us, you're both only human! 

 

I'm busy moving this weekend to my new house, so I'm tired and really busy packing and unpacking boxes.  I may not even have internet for 24 hours as it gets installed in the new house, so I don't want to spend 35 minutes fiddling around on my iPhone monitoring posts (yes, ValueInv it is a great phone, like all Apple products, but Siri is not a real person or assistant and cannot do a damn thing for me this weekend!).

 

I'm sure if the two of you got together for coffee, neither would actually pound the other into a bloody pulp (as most of us imagine), but would probably enjoy each other's company.  The anonymity of cyberspace makes it very easy to take offense and give offense...been there, done that!  So I am pleading to the small grain of common sense that pervades your intellect, when all rationality has failed, because ValueInv believes that Tim Cook has something actually hiding under that sleeve of his, or Txlaw believes that Dell's server business will usurp IBM.  For the love of God, let me enjoy my weekend without having to delete another one of either of your posts!  Cheers and thanks!  Now don't beat each other over the head when I'm not looking!  ;D