Jurgis Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 Top comment from YC Hacker News related to the Bloomberg article (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23116898): "On another aside, I have known folks who have worked at IB in the past, and their systems absolutely suck dead goats. Huge masses of legacy C++ code with poor testing. Most of these brokerage firms have legacy code base from the 90s that is poorly understood. They also have nonexistent organizational quotient around code validation, correctness and testing their risk models. A futures margin model is not something one can whip up over a weekend but a good CS undergraduate can program one over a couple months. Sorry for the IB customers but I have zero sympathy for IB or should I say negative ;)" As markets keep doing things they have never done before, things tend to break. Having worked in buy side in the past, most of tech is dated and buggy in the best of times... The companies were making upgrades and moving to new software but it takes many, many years to implement. Side note, continued good employment opportunities for programmers since so many sectors besides finance need to upgrade their software. Honestly, I was super surprised that negative contract prices did not fail or crash NYMEX or any other exchanges where they were traded. Kudos to programmers who implemented that correctly without much (if any) real world testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCLarkin Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 "On another aside, I have known folks who have worked at IB in the past, and their systems absolutely suck dead goats. Huge masses of legacy C++ code with poor testing. "The reason that [programmers] think the old code is a mess is because of a cardinal, fundamental law of programming: It’s harder to read code than to write it.” -- Joel All Code is Legacy Code: https://medium.com/better-programming/all-code-is-legacy-code-4d3df80d0979 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roark33 Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-08/oil-crash-busted-a-broker-s-computers-and-inflicted-huge-losses?sref=cQBAEOvQ Pretty amazing story, not such a good look for IBKR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 roark, thank you for posting. This was the problem: Compounding the problem, and a big reason why Shah lost an unbelievable amount in a few hours, is that the negative numbers also blew up the model Interactive Brokers used to calculate the amount of margin -- aka collateral -- that customers needed to secure their accounts. I actually posted this exact item here: https://www.cornerofberkshireandfairfax.ca/forum/general-discussion/energy-sector/msg410462/#msg410462 Ultimately this is the point: This is incredibly sloppy by IBKR. Incredibly. Risk management should be aware the collateral models they are using could not manage negative prices. In fact there should be an automated script that prevents these models even being used once prices go negative, i.e. if a customer tries to make a trade, it will lock them out as the product will not be priced as the model is shut off. Without a product price, the collateral requirement cannot be calculated and therefore the trade cannot be executed. Incredibly sloppy. Any of the CCAR banks would be broken in half by regulators if this ever happened. Trading desk heads and their entire teams would be fired. Which, it would not happen - internal controls are much stronger and FRB/OCC also perform their own exams testing these items annually and monitor results quarterly and desks perform these tests daily/weekly. IBKR should be ashamed - this is a rookie, rookie mistake. And Petterfly is a damn bonehead for attempting to blame anyone other than himself and the knuckleheads he hired. “That’s how it’s possible for these contracts to go absolutely crazy and close at a price that has no economic justification,” Peterffy said. “The issue is whose responsibility is this?” It's your responsibility, you dumbass. Don't be so cheap to hire dopeheads next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decko Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Not sure if anyone cares... but Im done with IBKR. Im on day 6 of trying to get a large amount of money sent into my hedge fund.. and its been a freaking joke. A disaster. I knew it was cheap and service was minimal,, but after 4 years its got to the point of dismal performance on their end.. I dont want to go down the list of what happened, but its really bad. Just my opinion.. Thus, im shopping and leaving IBKR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Not sure if anyone cares... but Im done with IBKR. Im on day 6 of trying to get a large amount of money sent into my hedge fund.. and its been a freaking joke. A disaster. I knew it was cheap and service was minimal,, but after 4 years its got to the point of dismal performance on their end.. I dont want to go down the list of what happened, but its really bad. Just my opinion.. Thus, im shopping and leaving IBKR. Maybe do so we know as well. I'm personally surprised because I have never had a problem with a wire with them, even though i do quite often with my bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Customer service of IBKR in a nutshell: 1) IBKR’s software is always correct. 2) calling customer service is useless 3) if <> 1) you are out of luck Their CSR will literally tell you to transfer your account and close it, if you are not satisfied. I have to say that their platform is pretty good and very reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chompsterama Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Not sure if anyone cares... but Im done with IBKR. Im on day 6 of trying to get a large amount of money sent into my hedge fund.. and its been a freaking joke. A disaster. I knew it was cheap and service was minimal,, but after 4 years its got to the point of dismal performance on their end.. I dont want to go down the list of what happened, but its really bad. Just my opinion.. Thus, im shopping and leaving IBKR. I've had the exact same experience. I'm still with them, but their service and compliance teams are unbelievably bad. FWIW, try their ProServe team or their Prime desk - they can usually push things along. But still, I often hang up and call again to get another rep. #Anectdata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Btw, I think they've started to add RMs to the team. I got an email last week from some guy who told me that he's my new RM and that if I need anything I should just reach out to him. I haven't done so yet because after all this time I've become so used to looking out for myself on their platform. But I may "find" some problem to see if these guys provide any real help or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 My gripe is they have limited me to 3 linked bank accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 My gripe is they have limited me to 3 linked bank accounts. That's weird. I have a ton from multiple geographies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 My gripe is they have limited me to 3 linked bank accounts. That's weird. I have a ton from multiple geographies. Weird is right. 6 months ago I had something like 8 accounts linked. Not sure what happened but at some point I tried adding another one and the platform refused and said I had exceeded the amount of linked accounts. I reached out to customer service and they said IBKR now limits it to 3. Maybe they think I am an AML risk :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 But where you able to keep the original 8? If so maybe they grandfathered you. Perhaps it is better to choose another strategy. Perhaps funds can be aggregated outside IBKR into 3 accounts and then transferred in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hielko Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 I think I have 5 accounts linked and that is the max. But have seen other US brokers that have the same limit, such as TD Ameritrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 But where you able to keep the original 8? If so maybe they grandfathered you. Perhaps it is better to choose another strategy. Perhaps funds can be aggregated outside IBKR into 3 accounts and then transferred in. I was able to keep them but I could not add any additional. So I deleted down to 2 in order to add another. I'm doing exactly as you mention - aggregating outside IBKR and transferring in/out as needed. Not a deal breaker, just an annoyance :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgis Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 On the positive side, TurboTax online tax filing and not-qualified dividend reporting was fine with IBKR this year. So sometimes they learn/fix issues... I still mostly hate them from past experiences... 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 I hate using their app/site but still can't beat that margin rate. I would love to see Schwab or Fidelity offer competitive and enticing margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 so with near zero commissions, is the future of IBKR asset accumulation and lending business (margin loans)? I mean they seem to make no money on anything , passing on the 'savings' to customers. There will be no forex Mastercard, maybe almost free trading. The only thing they make money on will be loans? Yet they do seem to be making a steady 1 billion cash minimum each year. It seems higher rates would super charge their yield spreads. To be honest I much prefer their survival of the fittest trading model. Namely, why run an investment bank with all those employees when you can 'distribute trading' to independent contractors and just make money on some 'tools of the trade' or financing. Might be interesting if they got themselves into buying a social trading platform like etorro or darwinex. To complement their hedge fund directory exchange which seems like a dead end as it stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kab60 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 What if they started charging customers 0,1 pct. of AUM... Peterffy has been pretty adamant that he won't raise prices, but I think it's difficult to invest when they're so dependent on rates. Someone on VIC wrote that Saxo Bank charges customers 0,15 pct., but I couldn't quickly confirm that. It could be much less than that and still be meaningful. It's a bit frustrating, because they're growing tremendously but it's not really getting reflected in their income statement, and if consensus is right, and rates are lower for longer it could be a very tough long term hold... Obviously, great upside if rates ever move up but that can be said for a lot of stuff. Personally wouldn't give a crap about paying 0,05-0,2 pct. of AUM, but I understand others might feel very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Hmm, don't relish the idea of paying a wealth tax, that's usually the domain of governments. Belgium now has a financial trading tax, and Netherlands has no capital gains tax but charges a "1.34%" tax on net assets. Of course, a company having the power of a government to tax capital seems mighty juicy! Unless you're the customer ( I would go for such a tax IF nations abolished capital gains tax. Not everyone has the luxury of living in Belgium , Switzerland or Netherlands and having no taxes on gains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 Does anyone else have problems navigating the IB website (not client portal). For a while now I keep getting This Site Can't Be Reached / Secure Connection Failed type errors. I tried 3 browsers and from my iphone, same crap. Wondering if I got a problem of does anyone else experience that. it's really annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 Does anyone else have problems navigating the IB website (not client portal). For a while now I keep getting This Site Can't Be Reached / Secure Connection Failed type errors. I tried 3 browsers and from my iphone, same crap. Wondering if I got a problem of does anyone else experience that. it's really annoying. Seems to work fine on my end. It could be a temporary problem with your internet provider. I have had similar things happen to me every once a while with certain websites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Looks like IB has one of those rare outages this morning 12/7/2020, starting 6:50 EST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfp Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 rare indeed - looks like they couldn't get it sorted before the open. Please post here if you are able to access trader workstation. Thanks We have experienced a significant failure in multiple segments of a highly resilient data storage system. We have engaged the vendor for analysis and recovery. Independently, we are rerouting modules of the overall IB brokerage system to our backup recovery centers. We recognize the dislocation this has caused to our clients, and express our apologies. Based on the current situation, we expect a prompt recovery, and will of course, keep interested parties informed in a timely manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Systems appear to be up and running again at 10:02AM when I checked. This took a while. I bet a couple of IT guys there have a really bad day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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