Osama Bin Laden: 1957 - 2011

[Smazz]

As per Muslim law he had to be buried in 24 hrs and it has been stated no available countrys (or acceptable) were prepared to accept his body.

 

The killing was warranted as a previous killer of many innocent - the insult of burial as per muslim beliefs would not have been thats why they stayed the course on that.

 

From what I've read, it was an assumption on the part of the US government/military. They didn't actually ask any of the governments whether this in fact was the case. And like I said earlier, the US effectively controls the government of Afghanistan, for example, so that explanation is somewhat nonsensical.

Which part is non sensical? That they were supposed to demand Afghanistan accepts the body of the guy who ran tyranny over them? What your implying would be acting like a banana republic.

It has been stated that they did talk to other governments. They just stated they wouldnt disclose which ones they were talking to and with all this, how do you propose them to manage moving the body to another country and have him buried within 24 hrs of his death? Considering they had to ensure through DNA tests it was in fact him.

[Guest FFHfan]

Contrary to reports emanating from Pakistan, the United States did not notify Pakistan of the operation until US aircraft were safely out of Pakistani airspace, risking engagement with Pakistani jet fighters that were scrambled during the operation.

 

This was a unilateral US operation. Funny how Pakistan tries to spin this one. For nearly ten years Pakistan pretended that they didn't know about the whereabouts of Bin Laden.

 

Deputy National Security Advisor for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism, John Brennan, said this:

 

"The Pakistanis had no idea who was in their airspace ... thankfully, there was no engagement. This was done well and no Pakistani forces were engaged."

 

Asked how Bin Laden was able to live in Pakistan for so long without authorities in that country being aware of his presence.

 

"We're looking at how he was able to hold out there for so long and if there was support in Pakistan that allowed him to do that, its inconceiveable that Osama bin Laden did not have a support system in the country that allowed him to stay there for a sustained period of time."

 

Everyone knows that the Pakistani military runs the country and the civilian governments are just puppets. Bin Laden was found close to an ISI training center, living in a wealthy suburb of Pakistan's capital Islamabad, where oh wait...retired Pakistani generals live as well.

 

Why does the USA still fund the Pakistani military, when the generals buy weapons against India, instead of using it against the Taliban in Pakistan or Afghanistan, or when the ISI cooperates with the Taliban to kill American soldiers? The US indirectly pays the Taliban to kill US soldiers, and spends billions of US Dollars, so American soldiers can kill Taliban.

 

Congrats to finally killing Bin Laden. Congrats to President Clinton, W.Bush and Obama for the continued effort to get Bin Laden.

But most importantly, thanks to the men and woman in the military and intelligence agencies, abroad and at home, for trying to keep the US safe. Thanks to all military families. Especially the ones of the special forces, be it Seals or Deltas and so on, whose names, stories and sacrifices are kept secret.

 

 

And here comes the backlash:

 

 

Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh condemned the killing of Osama bin Laden, who he hailed him as an "Arab holy warrior", asks "God to offer him mercy with true believers, martyrs".

 

Hamas representative, Ismail al-Ashqar, condemned the killing of bin Laden as a crime and state terror.

 

“We consider Osama bin Laden a modest man and a mujahed,” he said.

 

 

The head of Egypt's prestigious seat of Sunni Muslim learning, al-Azhar, condemned US troops' disposal of the body of Osama bin Laden at sea as an affront to religious and human values.

 

"The Grand Imam, Dr Ahmed El-Tayeb, the sheikh of Al-Azhar condemned the reports, if true, of the throwing of the body of Osama bin Laden into the sea," according to a statement released by al-Azhar, which is respected around the world by many Sunni Muslims as a seat of religious learning.

 

 

And there are already protests in support of Bin Laden in Pakistan.

 

 

 

[txlaw]

Well said, Sanjeev, except that we do treat our Aboriginal people as bad as the US treats its black population. IMHO. And of course, it's very sad in both case.

 

I would say blacks are doing ok down here. I mean there is no Aboriginal President anywhere around the corner. As a black guy, I think the Native Americans are a much cleaner comparison. Though all parties involved got screwed over in History. Having been to Oz, I will say I think the Aboriginals have it way worse. The things an Australian can say about an Aboriginals in a crowded room made me blush, and its hard for a black guy to blush. Again very similar to Native Americans, these things usually arent said about blacks due to fear and PCness.

 

 

Myth, it depends on where you're at in the states, unfortunately.

 

I was in Alabama about two weeks ago visiting my relatives, who were thankfully spared by the tornadoes, and they told me some stories that show just how much racial animosity is still bubbling under the surface in that particular part of the country, especially among older people. 

 

Specifically, between blacks and whites.  Oddly, other non-whites (I think I've mentioned before that I'm Indian) are not subject to the same prejudices to the same degree.

 

Having said that, I got a bit of it from a drunk white guy while I was down there, and I wasn't really in a position to respond in a manner that would have been satisfying.  Ruined my freaking day.

[turar]

Which part is non sensical? That they were supposed to demand Afghanistan accepts the body of the guy who ran tyranny over them? What your implying would be acting like a banana republic.

It has been stated that they did talk to other governments. They just stated they wouldnt disclose which ones they were talking to and with all this, how do you propose them to manage moving the body to another country and have him buried within 24 hrs of his death? Considering they had to ensure through DNA tests it was in fact him.

 

He didn't "run tyranny" over them, in fact he had wide popular support, in my understanding. And yes, that's what I'm implying, although "client state" is a more accurate term. That's what Afghanistan government is, and there's no need to demand anything, the US can just order it.

 

Again, the 24 hour thing is a joke in light of other circumstances. There's no hard and fast requirement of "24 hours", there are always exceptions, and I really don't think the US military cared that much about it.

 

Anyway, I'm gonna wrap up on my end about this issue. Just wanted to see if anyone else found it a bit surprising.

[Myth465]

Tx you have a point. What people say behind closed doors is one thing. Black folks or we, tend to say whatever the hell we want about anyone. Its the gift of being the underclass. I have found that in the US, everyone stays very PC when other races are around (minus drunk assh*les of course). Australia was weird, because Aussies were bitching to me about Aboriginals and it was fully unfiltered, which was very unique.

 

I am usually not treated to such commentary (pretty much anywhere else in the world). People usually have a lot of filters and qualifiers as they talk about their underclass in Europe or South America (especially with me lol). Perhaps it has more to do with Aussie frankness then racism or anything else. I felt as though I would have a much easier time in Australia than an Aboriginal which is strange (when you think about things from an American racial perspective).

 

My comments could be colored though, coming from a fairly mixed large US city. I know Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and other places have totally different race dynamics (I hear it sucks in cities that are mostly white with a huge black population and not much else). I have a huge population of Indian and Pakistani friends, and after 9/11 they joked with me about being new blacks. They caught a massive amount of hell here, and all over the US for a number of years, and would probably have problems in either smaller towns or where they are a significant minority. Also in the Southwest it feels like Hispanics are really the new target.  Its all quite interesting, same story in every country I have been in, just different groups filling the same roles (oppressed and oppressor or immigrant and local or real whatever).

[Guest ValueCarl]

Sanjeev, I hope you let this pass the mustard test with pun intended as he references one movie, "Sling blade," in his rant. Now, you can say what you like about Alex Jones while I have criticized his views, motives and opportunities in the past on my own, but most of the time I have seen him uncover the most amazing things, like when he caught that elitist, David Gergen, off guard with respect to his activities at The Bohemian Grove.

 

Historically, I know that India and Pakistan are arch rivals, so now it's time to gang up on Pakistan for India has now found great grace with the US-labor exploitation and WEB selling GEICO THERE! I smell the disdain for Pakistan right here and now. I don't even want to start with Enron, Global Crossing, Tyco and the rest of the ENTERPRISE CORRUPTION which triggered 911! Forced energy plants on India....defaults by India for same, backstopped by US taxes, CRASH AND BURN the evidence blaming it on OSAMA and the TERRORISTS, etc.....

 

Kudos to the SOB with his frog like voice on this one, too.  

 

Don't allow yourselves to be bitten by the Serpent, my friends. Stop hating one another, for we all have the same basic needs and desires for which "THE GLOBAL ELITISTS" want to take from each and every one of us.   imo  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiuaFdaOnRk    

 

 

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.”

(Marcus Tullius Cicero)  

[txlaw]

Its all quite interesting, same story in every country I have been in, just different groups filling the same roles (oppressed and oppressor or immigrant and local or real whatever).

 

It is very interesting. 

 

Just a fact of life, I suppose.  We all have our prejudices and biases towards the other peeps in the world.  The rationale person doesn't claim that these prejudices/biases don't exist, but rather tries to understand them and act properly/rationally despite having them.

[Myth465]

Its all quite interesting, same story in every country I have been in, just different groups filling the same roles (oppressed and oppressor or immigrant and local or real whatever).

 

It is very interesting. 

 

Just a fact of life, I suppose.  We all have our prejudices and biases towards the other peeps in the world.  The rationale person doesn't claim that these prejudices/biases don't exist, but rather tries to understand them and act properly/rationally despite having them.

 

Quote of the day moment. I think you win today.

[EdWatchesBoxing]

It is hard to read about how the natives have been treated in Canada. Extremely hard to think of how they're being treated today. However, the only thing I do that's remotely on the same wavelength is sponsoring a girl through WorldVision. I sometimes wonder if I am doing the right thing by waiting until I'm financial more secure before helping out in the community. I guess I'm too busy with work and looking out for number one for now.

 

A few weeks ago, I was walking out of the office (downtown Toronto) and a guy stopped me, said he just got out of the Don jail. He also said he was from Rama and was $16 short for the bus ticket. I don't know what it was, but I gave him a $20 and he went off. I guessed he was native and I hoped that it was the start of a better life for him. The funny thing is that he stopped me and asked if I spoke English. It makes sense because I'm Asian, but it was funny to hear one Asian-looking guy asking another if they spoke English.

 

My parents were pretty damn poor where they came from, so I feel extremely fortunate to live in Canada.

[ERICOPOLY]

Tx you have a point. What people say behind closed doors is one thing. Black folks or we, tend to say whatever the hell we want about anyone. Its the gift of being the underclass. I have found that in the US, everyone stays very PC when other races are around (minus drunk assh*les of course). Australia was weird, because Aussies were bitching to me about Aboriginals and it was fully unfiltered, which was very unique.

 

I am usually not treated to such commentary (pretty much anywhere else in the world). People usually have a lot of filters and qualifiers as they talk about their underclass in Europe or South America (especially with me lol). Perhaps it has more to do with Aussie frankness then racism or anything else. I felt as though I would have a much easier time in Australia than an Aboriginal which is strange (when you think about things from an American racial perspective).

 

My comments could be colored though, coming from a fairly mixed large US city. I know Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and other places have totally different race dynamics (I hear it sucks in cities that are mostly white with a huge black population and not much else). I have a huge population of Indian and Pakistani friends, and after 9/11 they joked with me about being new blacks. They caught a massive amount of hell here, and all over the US for a number of years, and would probably have problems in either smaller towns or where they are a significant minority. Also in the Southwest it feels like Hispanics are really the new target.  Its all quite interesting, same story in every country I have been in, just different groups filling the same roles (oppressed and oppressor or immigrant and local or real whatever).

 

I was at the Australian Reptile Park near Sydney in March.   The have an exhibit there called "Spider World" where you can go in and look at all these different venomous spiders.  They actually extract the venom there and it's used to create anti-venom for saving lives:

http://www.reptilepark.com.au/visitor-information/exhibits/spider-world/

 

Visitors are initially drawn into Spider World by the seriously cute rap-dancing spider-rapper 'Syd' (short for Sydney Funnel-web Spider). Upon activating a sensor outside the Spider World entry, Syd goes into welcome mode - rappin' and shakin' to a funky beat:

 

"Welcome to my parlour. won't you come a little farther?. Yeah, my name is Sydney, that's Syd to cut it short..."

So as you walk into the exhibit, there giant black spider is really there dancing and rapping with a boom box.  He's dressed up like Run D.M.C., high top sneaker and all.

 

I met a man at the picnic tables who is Australian and who spent a few years working in Los Angeles.  I explained to him how something like that would be enough to have the park practically closed down in the United States.  He realized what I meant once I spelled it out, but up until then it had just not occurred to him.   In other words, they don't have things like that to be nasty, they just are a little oblivious.

 

The gift shop of the Featherdale Wildlife Park in Blacktown (near Sydney) has "gollywogs" -- a doll for girls.  The doll is jet black with giant red lips.  Yet another example of what would get you shut down in the US.

 

Or there's the Chinese restaurants with "ORIENTAL FOOD" is giant lettering across the front. 

 

But hey, Australia has never had slaves.

[twacowfca]

Tx you have a point. What people say behind closed doors is one thing. Black folks or we, tend to say whatever the hell we want about anyone. Its the gift of being the underclass. I have found that in the US, everyone stays very PC when other races are around (minus drunk assh*les of course). Australia was weird, because Aussies were bitching to me about Aboriginals and it was fully unfiltered, which was very unique.

 

I am usually not treated to such commentary (pretty much anywhere else in the world). People usually have a lot of filters and qualifiers as they talk about their underclass in Europe or South America (especially with me lol). Perhaps it has more to do with Aussie frankness then racism or anything else. I felt as though I would have a much easier time in Australia than an Aboriginal which is strange (when you think about things from an American racial perspective).

 

My comments could be colored though, coming from a fairly mixed large US city. I know Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and other places have totally different race dynamics (I hear it sucks in cities that are mostly white with a huge black population and not much else). I have a huge population of Indian and Pakistani friends, and after 9/11 they joked with me about being new blacks. They caught a massive amount of hell here, and all over the US for a number of years, and would probably have problems in either smaller towns or where they are a significant minority. Also in the Southwest it feels like Hispanics are really the new target.  Its all quite interesting, same story in every country I have been in, just different groups filling the same roles (oppressed and oppressor or immigrant and local or real whatever).

 

I was at the Australian Reptile Park near Sydney in March.   The have an exhibit there called "Spider World" where you can go in and look at all these different venomous spiders.  They actually extract the venom there and it's used to create anti-venom for saving lives:

http://www.reptilepark.com.au/visitor-information/exhibits/spider-world/

 

Visitors are initially drawn into Spider World by the seriously cute rap-dancing spider-rapper 'Syd' (short for Sydney Funnel-web Spider). Upon activating a sensor outside the Spider World entry, Syd goes into welcome mode - rappin' and shakin' to a funky beat:

 

"Welcome to my parlour. won't you come a little farther?. Yeah, my name is Sydney, that's Syd to cut it short..."

So as you walk into the exhibit, there giant black spider is really there dancing and rapping with a boom box.  He's dressed up like Run D.M.C., high top sneaker and all.

 

I met a man at the picnic tables who is Australian and who spent a few years working in Los Angeles.  I explained to him how something like that would be enough to have the park practically closed down in the United States.  He realized what I meant once I spelled it out, but up until then it had just not occurred to him.   In other words, they don't have things like that to be nasty, they just are a little oblivious.

 

The gift shop of the Featherdale Wildlife Park in Blacktown (near Sydney) has "gollywogs" -- a doll for girls.  The doll is jet black with giant red lips.  Yet another example of what would get you shut down in the US.

 

Or there's the Chinese restaurants with "ORIENTAL FOOD" is giant lettering across the front. 

 

But hey, Australia has never had slaves.

 

 

What about the First Fleet, Mate?  Didn't the Rum Corp get rich off free labor?

[ERICOPOLY]

But hey, Australia has never had slaves.

 

What about the First Fleet, Mate?  Didn't the Rum Corp get rich off free labor?

 

Sure enough, however the Australian citizen did not outright own people as George Washington and Thomas Jefferson did.

 

There was a policy of white-only immigration... and that's pretty embarrassing.  But then you had segregation in the US.  The Aboriginals were mistreated (Rabbit Proof Fence is a good movie on this) -- however I think the better analogy here is to compare with the treatment of the Native Americans in the US.

 

 

[Guest ValueCarl]

Eric, teach a non Asian about something Asian in Australia, please. If I am Chinese, maybe of Mandarin descent, would I be more or less happy from seeing a sign that says "CHINESE" RESTAURANT or "ORIENTAL FOOD" restaurant like you have described? tia

 

In my world; however, the goal of The Capitalist throughout the ages hasn't changed and it's alive and well today. It's predicated upon ENTERPRISE CORRUPTION in the name of LABOR EXPLOITATION all while mixing and matching, sharing and spying inclusive of giving proprietory TECHNOLOGIES away(espionage) for such end results, i.e., lather, rinse and repeat the process so no nation is truly sovereign, and no labor force is truly secure while no People can rest on their laurels. 

 

Did you not hear that dribbler who can slam dunk like few others, Kolby Bryant, read from his owners' script after he placed foot in mouth that, "We're all in this together!"  ;)     

[tyska]

It is hard to read about how the natives have been treated in Canada. Extremely hard to think of how they're being treated today. However, the only thing I do that's remotely on the same wavelength is sponsoring a girl through WorldVision. I sometimes wonder if I am doing the right thing by waiting until I'm financial more secure before helping out in the community. I guess I'm too busy with work and looking out for number one for now.

 

A few weeks ago, I was walking out of the office (downtown Toronto) and a guy stopped me, said he just got out of the Don jail. He also said he was from Rama and was $16 short for the bus ticket. I don't know what it was, but I gave him a $20 and he went off. I guessed he was native and I hoped that it was the start of a better life for him. The funny thing is that he stopped me and asked if I spoke English. It makes sense because I'm Asian, but it was funny to hear one Asian-looking guy asking another if they spoke English.

 

My parents were pretty damn poor where they came from, so I feel extremely fortunate to live in Canada.

 

I'm willing to guess that no one on this board has spent their entire lives next to a reserve. While there is no denying the things that were done to them in the past it is really no different than what has happened to just about any group of people in history. I'm sure when the vikings invaded a village there wasn't a lot of cultural sensitivity to the people there, they took what they wanted, killed who they wanted, and stayed or left when they wanted unless some one stronger came along and did the same to them. The European and Asian boundaries were in continuous flux, with whatever new conqueror imposing there religion and culture on the people while they were there. So it gets pretty tiring how this is something that the "natives" have a corner on.

But back to the point of how they are treated today, Calvin Helin, http://www.spiritorca.com/ , tells best in his books what  the worst thing happening is today. Something I've seen with my own eyes, but thank God there are a few Native leaders who see it and are speaking out. The Govt has been trying to make equality of outcome, when all it can really control is equality of opportunity. Even a Native activist, just elected to the Conservatives in Newfoundland, has stopped fighting everything and has come to the realization that you can't fund social programs without economic growth. If only more people, regardless of race, could have an epiphany like that.     

[Smazz]

It is hard to read about how the natives have been treated in Canada. Extremely hard to think of how they're being treated today. However, the only thing I do that's remotely on the same wavelength is sponsoring a girl through WorldVision. I sometimes wonder if I am doing the right thing by waiting until I'm financial more secure before helping out in the community. I guess I'm too busy with work and looking out for number one for now.

 

A few weeks ago, I was walking out of the office (downtown Toronto) and a guy stopped me, said he just got out of the Don jail. He also said he was from Rama and was $16 short for the bus ticket. I don't know what it was, but I gave him a $20 and he went off. I guessed he was native and I hoped that it was the start of a better life for him. The funny thing is that he stopped me and asked if I spoke English. It makes sense because I'm Asian, but it was funny to hear one Asian-looking guy asking another if they spoke English.

 

My parents were pretty damn poor where they came from, so I feel extremely fortunate to live in Canada.

 

I'm willing to guess that no one on this board has spent their entire lives next to a reserve.

My Friend lives in a new subdivision in Caledonia.. from his back yard, he could see the Native Flag from that blockade they had going. I had visited his house - turn left exactly at the street that was blocked.

[EdWatchesBoxing]

Even a Native activist, just elected to the Conservatives in Newfoundland, has stopped fighting everything and has come to the realization that you can't fund social programs without economic growth. If only more people, regardless of race, could have an epiphany like that.     

 

I picked up on that watching the results last night. It's interesting that he has a practical approach to trying to solve his problems. It would be even cooler if we heard about investing talent coming out of the native population, doing good for their communities.

[tyska]

It would be even cooler if we heard about investing talent coming out of the native population, doing good for their communities.

 

 Exactly, if you are going to isolate yourself as a group, you will only build yourself up by working on positives in the group, not wallowing in all the negativity and blame. And from my vantage they were very close to that in the 70s', before Trudeau started pumping money with no accountability into the reserves. All he proved was we didn't have the corner on greedy and corrupt politicians. ;)

[tyska]

It is hard to read about how the natives have been treated in Canada. Extremely hard to think of how they're being treated today. However, the only thing I do that's remotely on the same wavelength is sponsoring a girl through WorldVision. I sometimes wonder if I am doing the right thing by waiting until I'm financial more secure before helping out in the community. I guess I'm too busy with work and looking out for number one for now.

 

A few weeks ago, I was walking out of the office (downtown Toronto) and a guy stopped me, said he just got out of the Don jail. He also said he was from Rama and was $16 short for the bus ticket. I don't know what it was, but I gave him a $20 and he went off. I guessed he was native and I hoped that it was the start of a better life for him. The funny thing is that he stopped me and asked if I spoke English. It makes sense because I'm Asian, but it was funny to hear one Asian-looking guy asking another if they spoke English.

 

My parents were pretty damn poor where they came from, so I feel extremely fortunate to live in Canada.

 

I'm willing to guess that no one on this board has spent their entire lives next to a reserve.

My Friend lives in a new subdivision in Caledonia.. from his back yard, he could see the Native Flag from that blockade they had going. I had visited his house - turn left exactly at the street that was blocked.

 

Just shows wrongs are never righted by more wrongs.

[ubuy2wron]

Sanjeev,

 

You forgot to mention that you guys have GST, PST, HST and even QST(if you live in Quebec) that equal to 15-20% making purchasing any goods extremely difficult and impossible for bargain hunters.  ;D

 

BTW: Does it always seem to you that a Republican president creates a pile of poops, and a Democrat president came along to clean it?  Let's count the way shall we?  Eisenhower created the VN mess, and Kennedy had to clean it up before he was killed.  Nixon created another pile of mess, and Carter had to clean up his mess but wasn't given enough time.  Reagan, for all of his wonderful credits of helping end Communisium created a budget mess, and Clinton had to clean that up.  Then, we had Bush Jr. created this $5 Trillion mess in Iraq, and now Obama had to clean that up.

 

Needless to say, Sanjeev, today is a GREAT DAY to be an American!  Great Day!!!  

 

So, we will clean up our GDP mess, our deficit and our health care problem.  Just give us time.

 

Oh, enjoy your strong dollar!  Please come and spend it on us.  We want Canadian tourism in America.

[EdWatchesBoxing]

 Exactly, if you are going to isolate yourself as a group, you will only build yourself up by working on positives in the group, not wallowing in all the negativity and blame. And from my vantage they were very close to that in the 70s', before Trudeau started pumping money with no accountability into the reserves. All he proved was we didn't have the corner on greedy and corrupt politicians. ;)

 

How true, fix problems from within.