ourkid8 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Does anyone know if he took a stake in the company and what would be the impact to the warrants if there was a spin-off of it's life and mortgage insurance subsidiaries? Icahn: http://carlicahn.com/aig-ceo-letter/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BargainValueHunter Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Does anyone know if he took a stake in the company and what would be the impact to the warrants if there was a spin-off? Icahn: http://carlicahn.com/aig-ceo-letter/ http://www.wsj.com/articles/icahn-says-he-has-taken-large-stake-in-aig-encourages-company-to-split-1446038362 Activist investor Carl Icahn said he has accumulated a “large stake” in American International Group Inc. and called for the insurer to split into three public companies. In a letter to AIG Chief Executive Peter Hancock that Mr. Icahn posted on his website, he called for the global insurer to pursue separations of both its life and mortgage insurance units. Mr. Hancock said in a statement that the company has taken significant steps to cut risk and sell noncore assets, while adding the company maintains an open dialogue with all shareholders. A representative from Mr. Icahn wasn’t immediately available for comment. He hasn’t yet made a regulatory filing disclosing the size of his stake in AIG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourkid8 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 How about the impact on the Warrant holders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantheman Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 How about the impact on the Warrant holders? Warrant holders are covered on this as I understand it. The anti-dilution adjustments would apply if they spun businesses or sold them in an IPO outright. Pages S-5 through S-8: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/5272/000095012311003847/y89089e424b2.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berkshiremystery Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Actually,... I enjoy reading the news, that they are tremendously undervalued. ;D Never have sold one single share or warrant,.. since I joined the bandwagon, after Bruce Berkowitz had invested in them. They are still way below bv. The journey continues,... Icahn Urges AIG to Split Into Three, Says ‘Time to Act Is Now’ http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-28/icahn-urges-aig-to-split-into-three-says-time-to-act-is-now-?cmpid=yhoo.headline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchman Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 BERKOWITZ SELLS OUT OF AIG ??! Common at least, maybe still has warrants. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinod1 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 BERKOWITZ SELLS OUT OF AIG ??! Common at least, maybe still has warrants. Wow. Where do you see that Berkowitz sold out of AIG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinod1 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 How about the impact on the Warrant holders? Warrant holders are covered on this as I understand it. The anti-dilution adjustments would apply if they spun businesses or sold them in an IPO outright. Pages S-5 through S-8: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/5272/000095012311003847/y89089e424b2.htm The warrant holders are protected but one way to lose with warrants in such a scenario is if these split up entities are acquired by other companies then the warrant holders would lose the time value. Unlikely scenario though. Vinod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racemize Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 BERKOWITZ SELLS OUT OF AIG ??! Common at least, maybe still has warrants. Wow. Where do you see that Berkowitz sold out of AIG? http://www.dataroma.com/m/m_activity.php?m=fairx&typ=a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhubarbXIV Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 BERKOWITZ SELLS OUT OF AIG ??! Common at least, maybe still has warrants. Wow. Where do you see that Berkowitz sold out of AIG? http://www.dataroma.com/m/m_activity.php?m=fairx&typ=a That has to be in error. His most recent FAIRX fact sheet still lists AIG at 10% of assets (and his largest position) as of 9/30. http://www.fairholmefundsinc.com/Facts/FAIRXfacts.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinod1 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Thanks Race & RhubarbXIV. I think as dutchman pointed out, the 10% might be entirely in warrants. Vinod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berkshiremystery Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Here's from "Fairholm Captial Mgmt",... the 13-F list from 2.Q. http://www.nasdaq.com/quotes/institutional-portfolio/fairholme-capital-management-llc-62805 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhubarbXIV Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Ehh, either way we'll find out in like two weeks when the next batch of 13Fs comes out. I'm probably more curious to see how much money Carl put where his mouth is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valueyoda Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Think, it is highly unlikely that management wants to split up AIG at this point. Furthermore, the DTA could be in jeopardy if that transpires. The stock excluding the DTA at $64 is not as cheap as people might expect, if combined ratios don't materially improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourkid8 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Very good point. This could light the fire under management's ass to improve CR quicker, expediting cost savings and repurchasing additional shares at this price. Either way, it's truly a win/win for all shareholders. Thanks Carl! Once the DTAs are used, then at that point it will make sense to break up the company. Think, it is highly unlikely that management wants to split up AIG at this point. Furthermore, the DTA could be in jeopardy if that transpires. The stock excluding the DTA at $64 is not as cheap as people might expect, if combined ratios don't materially improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valueyoda Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 It would have been greater if Carl hadn't been involved at this point, as management would have been able to repurchase shares longer at cheaper levels, resulting in higher BV per share down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinod1 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Think, it is highly unlikely that management wants to split up AIG at this point. Furthermore, the DTA could be in jeopardy if that transpires. The stock excluding the DTA at $64 is not as cheap as people might expect, if combined ratios don't materially improve. My understanding is that DTA's would not be in jeopardy if AIG splits off in these sense of spinning the parts to its shareholders. The intent behind limitations on transfer of control is to prevent acquisitions of companies with substantial NOL's purely to avoid tax and without any other business justification. Vinod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valueyoda Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Not necessarily true. It depends where within the company the TDA resides. I have to check it again, as normally I look at it from a consolidated holding company perspective, but I would imagine that a lot of the TDA resides within the mortgage insurance division, which wouldn't be very attractive if that would be spun off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valueyoda Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Besides the $100 price that was put on AIG is completely BS, unless insurance valuations are going much higher coming years. Unless Carl has a stake of at least a few billion dollar, I would suprised if management would be swayed to break it up. Contrary to what a lot of people think, it is not always beneficial to break up a multi-line insurance company, as the different divisions reduce the overall earnings volatility - provided that each division has a great manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spekulatius Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Besides the $100 price that was put on AIG is completely BS, unless insurance valuations are going much higher coming years. Unless Carl has a stake of at least a few billion dollar, I would suprised if management would be swayed to break it up. Contrary to what a lot of people think, it is not always beneficial to break up a multi-line insurance company, as the different divisions reduce the overall earnings volatility - provided that each division has a great manager. I think the split is BS and won't provide much LT value. It's not like life assurance Co. trade at premium valuations. This is just a good for a quick puff, nothing more. While I do agree that AIG looks cheap, one needs to take into account that AIG has a history of under reserving (they had a large reassessment for their property line just a few years ago), so it may not be much cheaper than other insurance companies like MET for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valueyoda Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I agree. AIG looks deceptively cheap to a lot of investors who base their analysis on a quicky p/b comparison. However, AIG has some significant operational issues relative to most insurers (hence the high combined ratio), overvaluation of the DTA asset and revaluation of certain assets. It is still relatively cheap and the risk is not too high at these prices (especially below $60), but there is absolutely no reason for this company to trade at book anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye4Valu Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Looks like Fairholme exited its AIG position in its entirety: http://www.gurufocus.com/news/370361/fairholme-fund-sells-stake-in-american-international-group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzCactus Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Looks like Fairholme exited its AIG position in its entirety: http://www.gurufocus.com/news/370361/fairholme-fund-sells-stake-in-american-international-group They still hold a large number of warrants if I'm not mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benhacker Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Mutual Fund filing for 10/27 (reporting 8/31) still shows AIG.wS positions. http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1096344/000119312515354812/d49529dnq.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkhet Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I suspect that it's due to redemptions. Also sold down a big portion of his Bank of America position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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