Jump to content

GOOGL - Google


Liberty

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 2.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
  • 5 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Google committing to $6bn+ per quarter, $24bn per year, in buybacks. Also, the co. did provide way more disclosure. You can really see the changes being made by Ruth and Sundar with Larry and Sergei gone. I wonder if the larger share repurchases point to Google moving into a bit more of a harvest mode, with regard to certain businesses of course (Networks and Search spring to mind).

 

Now with a 2.5% buyback yield plus all the associated growth even at ~30x trailing FCF (CFO - CapEx), ex-cash, its not a terrible value proposition even with the regulatory overhang. THe co. still has plenty of catalysts (Waymo, Cloud scaling, YouTube scaling) too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah yes, forgot about dilution. Still share count is down another 5mn y/y. So closer to 5/7 of a percent a year in a "buyback" yield, which is more or less nothing. Just got excited re-reading the call!

 

Definitely, the best call I have listened to in several years...

 

I sometimes see share buybacks dismissed because they only offset dilution.  As in, a company shouldn't do buybacks because it only offsets dilution.  While I can share in the disappointment of share count not actually decreasing, I think that share buybacks offsetting dilution should not be dismissed.

 

Share issuances and buybacks are two separate decisions.  If a company is going to issue shares, they are going to do so whether or not they have a buyback.  Say you have 2% dilution due to share issuances.  A 2% buyback isn't a bad thing or worthless.  It is the difference between a flat share count and 2% dilution.  If someone doesn't like it, they should direct their ire at the share issuances, not the buyback.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sometimes see share buybacks dismissed because they only offset dilution.  As in, a company shouldn't do buybacks because it only offsets dilution.  While I can share in the disappointment of share count not actually decreasing, I think that share buybacks offsetting dilution should not be dismissed.

 

Share issuances and buybacks are two separate decisions.  If a company is going to issue shares, they are going to do so whether or not they have a buyback.  Say you have 2% dilution due to share issuances.  A 2% buyback isn't a bad thing or worthless.  It is the difference between a flat share count and 2% dilution.  If someone doesn't like it, they should direct their ire at the share issuances, not the buyback.

 

I don't think it's irritation from buybacks offsetting dilutions (or partial dilutions).  I think the point was that when one does a relatively simple FCF calc (OCF - capex) the number is misleading, bc dilution can be significant, especially for tech companies.  My quick math suggests that half of the buybacks went to offset dilution last year for Google.  Not that they shouldn't have done the buyback - just that if I'm looking at a FCF yield I need to be sure that I'm doing apples to apples, or at least remember to take out the dilution impact from my figures. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sometimes see share buybacks dismissed because they only offset dilution.  As in, a company shouldn't do buybacks because it only offsets dilution.  While I can share in the disappointment of share count not actually decreasing, I think that share buybacks offsetting dilution should not be dismissed.

 

Share issuances and buybacks are two separate decisions.  If a company is going to issue shares, they are going to do so whether or not they have a buyback.  Say you have 2% dilution due to share issuances.  A 2% buyback isn't a bad thing or worthless.  It is the difference between a flat share count and 2% dilution.  If someone doesn't like it, they should direct their ire at the share issuances, not the buyback.

 

I don't think it's irritation from buybacks offsetting dilutions (or partial dilutions).  I think the point was that when one does a relatively simple FCF calc (OCF - capex) the number is misleading, bc dilution can be significant, especially for tech companies.  My quick math suggests that half of the buybacks went to offset dilution last year for Google.  Not that they shouldn't have done the buyback - just that if I'm looking at a FCF yield I need to be sure that I'm doing apples to apples, or at least remember to take out the dilution impact from my figures.

 

It also makes it less comparable because those are comp expenses that aren't really flowing through the income statement.

 

If you wanted a more accurate picture of the business, hold share count constant and add that $6B/quarter to G&A to get a realistic ROE figure. You could even discount it a bit to reflect those treasury shares appreciating, but point is it's just obfuscation at the point and people talk about how large the buybacks are ( a supposed positive) instead of how large the G&A expense is (a supposed negative).

 

Just allows for the narrative to be manipulated or hidden

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sometimes see share buybacks dismissed because they only offset dilution.  As in, a company shouldn't do buybacks because it only offsets dilution.  While I can share in the disappointment of share count not actually decreasing, I think that share buybacks offsetting dilution should not be dismissed.

 

Share issuances and buybacks are two separate decisions.  If a company is going to issue shares, they are going to do so whether or not they have a buyback.  Say you have 2% dilution due to share issuances.  A 2% buyback isn't a bad thing or worthless.  It is the difference between a flat share count and 2% dilution.  If someone doesn't like it, they should direct their ire at the share issuances, not the buyback.

 

I don't think it's irritation from buybacks offsetting dilutions (or partial dilutions).  I think the point was that when one does a relatively simple FCF calc (OCF - capex) the number is misleading, bc dilution can be significant, especially for tech companies.  My quick math suggests that half of the buybacks went to offset dilution last year for Google.  Not that they shouldn't have done the buyback - just that if I'm looking at a FCF yield I need to be sure that I'm doing apples to apples, or at least remember to take out the dilution impact from my figures.

 

It also makes it less comparable because those are comp expenses that aren't really flowing through the income statement.

 

If you wanted a more accurate picture of the business, hold share count constant and add that $6B/quarter to G&A to get a realistic ROE figure. You could even discount it a bit to reflect those treasury shares appreciating, but point is it's just obfuscation at the point and people talk about how large the buybacks are ( a supposed positive) instead of how large the G&A expense is (a supposed negative).

 

Just allows for the narrative to be manipulated or hidden

 

Hmmm. I don't really get what you are getting at here. SBC is obviously less (on a true value basis) than reported, as the SBC number reported on the CF statement can be way below buybacks when stock prices are rising leading to the share count barely budging. But if we are adding buybacks into G&A aren't we way over-penalizing Net income and RoE? Should we not add SBC back to net income, subtract off the $6bn in buybacks, and then calculate RoE from there?

 

I also imagine this technique for calculating "true" RoE really only works when the net buyback yield is effectively 0 - like in GOOGL's case. Thanks for any help with clarification.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

It also makes it less comparable because those are comp expenses that aren't really flowing through the income statement.

 

If you wanted a more accurate picture of the business, hold share count constant and add that $6B/quarter to G&A to get a realistic ROE figure. You could even discount it a bit to reflect those treasury shares appreciating, but point is it's just obfuscation at the point and people talk about how large the buybacks are ( a supposed positive) instead of how large the G&A expense is (a supposed negative).

 

Just allows for the narrative to be manipulated or hidden

 

Hmmm. I don't really get what you are getting at here. SBC is obviously less (on a true value basis) than reported, as the SBC number reported on the CF statement can be way below buybacks when stock prices are rising leading to the share count barely budging. But if we are adding buybacks into G&A aren't we way over-penalizing Net income and RoE? Should we not add SBC back to net income, subtract off the $6bn in buybacks, and then calculate RoE from there?

 

I also imagine this technique for calculating "true" RoE really only works when the net buyback yield is effectively 0 - like in GOOGL's case. Thanks for any help with clarification.

 

Twocities - I agree 100% with your logic.  I tend to look more at FCF figures rather than P&L figures, so I adjust it on a share neutral basis for FCF.

 

griezeman23 - I think Twicities was just short handing the ROE point.  I think the right way to do it would be to back out SBC, put in a number that one believes to be a run-rate number, and then tax affect it to get to a "truer" ROE.  The reason I don't think it makes sense to just add back the share neutral buyback/SBC cash payments is that it's not clear the time period in which those expenses were incurred.  For example, while options generally vest between 3-5 years, their maturity is generally 10 years from time of issuance (not vesting).  As such, one might have 5-7 years left on an option when it's fully vested.  For some people they would exercise the moment it becomes vested, while for others who are maybe more financially savvy they would wait it out since that 5-7 years is hugely valuable.  Of course, you also have instances where the share price also influence people's willingness to exercise, etc.  All this is to say that I don't think it's analytically appropriate to just add back same year buyback/cash payments.  I don't have a better method outside of trying to get a sense of the company's SBC structure through the proxy statement and making some assumptions for future share dilution based on your expected share price (where it becomes circular...)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • 4 weeks later...

What you guys think about Alphabet/Google earnings?

 

 

https://abc.xyz/investor/static/pdf/2020Q1_alphabet_earnings_release.pdf?cache=4690b9f

 

Earnings: $9.87 per share, adjusted

Revenue: $41.16 billion

Cloud revenue: $2.78 billion

YouTube advertising revenue: $4.04 billion

Traffic acquisition costs: $7.45 billion

 

Alphabet’s revenue growth rate slowed to 13% in the quarter from 17% one quarter earlier, according to a statement. Advertising still makes up the vast majority of Alphabet’s total revenue, at 82%.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What you guys think about Alphabet/Google earnings?

 

 

https://abc.xyz/investor/static/pdf/2020Q1_alphabet_earnings_release.pdf?cache=4690b9f

 

Earnings: $9.87 per share, adjusted

Revenue: $41.16 billion

Cloud revenue: $2.78 billion

YouTube advertising revenue: $4.04 billion

Traffic acquisition costs: $7.45 billion

 

Alphabet’s revenue growth rate slowed to 13% in the quarter from 17% one quarter earlier, according to a statement. Advertising still makes up the vast majority of Alphabet’s total revenue, at 82%.

 

It’s in line with what I expected - I don’t put too much weight on slower revenue growth because sometimes growth slows down for a myriad of reasons. However, I feel the slower revenue growth is due to COVID-19. I would be surprised if revenue growth does not slow down by another 25% next quarter.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/justice-department-state-attorneys-general-likely-to-bring-antitrust-lawsuits-against-google-11589573622

 

Both the Justice Department and a group of state attorneys general are likely to file antitrust lawsuits against Alphabet Inc.’s Google—and are well into planning for litigation, according to people familiar with the matter.

 

The Justice Department is moving toward bringing a case as soon as this summer, some of the people said. At least some state attorneys general—led by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, a Republican—are likely to file a case, probably in the fall, people familiar with the matter said.

 

Much of the states’ investigation has focused on Google’s online advertising business. The company owns the dominant tool at every link in the complex chain between online publishers and advertisers. The Justice Department likewise is making Google’s ad technology one of its points of emphasis. But it is also focusing more broadly on concerns that Google uses its dominant search business to stifle competition, people familiar with the matter said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...