TRE - Sino-forest put.

[libor.plus1]

Niels, Satellite photos, I am impressed. Can you tell us where a person can order satellite images as I have trouble getting up to date imagery of areas I am interested in.

 

I as well would be interested in this service... and how much do snapshots go for?

[niels12think]

Niels, Satellite photos, I am impressed. Can you tell us where a person can order satellite images as I have trouble getting up to date imagery of areas I am interested in.

 

I used mapmart.com - they have a large number of different options and sattellites available. The cost differs significantly among the options. I went for the plain old high res black and white, which was among the cheapest.

 

Cheers!

 

[libor.plus1]

Niels, Satellite photos, I am impressed. Can you tell us where a person can order satellite images as I have trouble getting up to date imagery of areas I am interested in.

 

I used mapmart.com - they have a large number of different options and sattellites available. The cost differs significantly among the options. I went for the plain old high res black and white, which was among the cheapest.

 

Cheers!

 

 

Niel, I'm curious, how did you find the exact coordinates/address of the properties? Did ONP provide that info?

[niels12think]

Niel, I'm curious, how did you find the exact coordinates/address of the properties? Did ONP provide that info?

It took some investigation on my part to find the coordinates. i then verified the site by cross checking with the video and photos from onp site to make absolutely sure i found the correct spot. Everything fits.

 

Cheers!

[MrB]

Can anyone kindly direct me to the copies of bank statements on Sino's website?

 

Page 2 of

http://www.sinoforest.com/Uploads/SF%20MW%20Press%20release%2006%2006%202011%20Final.pdf

"Sino-Forest has released today on its website a summary schedule of cash and cash equivalent and

short term deposits along with a detailed listing with copies of its bank statements confirming the cash

held within the Company as at that date."

 

Tnx.

[lessthaniv]

They are in the dataroom although they are not complete.

[MrB]

Tnx. I see I have to go through a sign up process to get access, which I've done, but I was hoping to look at it over the weekend. Any possibility of emailing it to me or just letting me know whether these are mainland or Hong Kong based banks, please?

[libor.plus1]

Niel, I'm curious, how did you find the exact coordinates/address of the properties? Did ONP provide that info?

It took some investigation on my part to find the coordinates. i then verified the site by cross checking with the video and photos from onp site to make absolutely sure i found the correct spot. Everything fits.

 

Cheers!

 

Sent you a PM

[lessthaniv]

Tnx. I see I have to go through a sign up process to get access, which I've done, but I was hoping to look at it over the weekend. Any possibility of emailing it to me or just letting me know whether these are mainland or Hong Kong based banks, please?

 

                        Offshore not in PRC ($M) Located in PRC ($M)   Total ($M)

 

Cash                                         683.93               300.29           984.22

Short term deposits                       12.9                   20.29             33.19

Total                                         696.83                 320.58           1017.41

 

Greenheart                                   70.66                       0               70.66

 

Consolidated per BS                     767.49                 320.58           1088.07

 

[MrB]

 

Thanks for the posted info!

[cwericb]

Sino repays $90 million dollar note :

 

http://www.sinoforest.com/Uploads%5CPress%20release%20-%20repayment%20of%202011%20Notes%20%28FINAL%29.pdf

 

And releases Q2 results and update on PWC report:

 

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/August2011/15/c3709.html

 

No resignations, no suicides, no whistle blowers, loans being repaid, results being released and major share purchases by reputable buyers such as Chandler who now owns nearly 20%.

 

TRE is presently over $7.00.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[twacowfca]

Sino repays $90 million dollar note :

 

http://www.sinoforest.com/Uploads%5CPress%20release%20-%20repayment%20of%202011%20Notes%20%28FINAL%29.pdf

 

And releases Q2 results and update on PWC report:

 

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/August2011/15/c3709.html

 

No resignations, no suicides, no whistle blowers, loans being repaid, results being released and major share purchases by reputable buyers such as Chandler who now owns nearly 20%.

 

TRE is presently over $7.00.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If a tree falls in a forest and there is no one there to hear it, does it count?

 

[Parsad]

If a tree falls in a forest and there is no one there to hear it, does it count?

 

Only if there is no impairment to the value of the forest!  ;D

 

I'm still wary of these guys, as they have now said that the independent review will take longer due to fragmented data.  How the heck does a billion dollar company (at one point) have fragmented data? 

 

Cwericb, great job on the contrarian bet, but take a little off the table.  Cheers!

[cwericb]

"If a tree falls in a forest and there is no one there to hear it, does it count?"

 

Only if it lands on Carson Block? :)

 

I would think that almost any company of this size and as spread out as is TRE, doing business in a relatively undeveloped country like China, would likely have some 'dirty laundry'. Things are not done quite the way they over there as they are here. That should be expected. But when this all shakes out I would think that the company will essentially have passed the test but with two major improvements. Firstly, and unlike many companies - weather its in China or North America - investors will have an in depth PWC report to tell them exactly what is going on within that company. How many companies anywhere will have undergone that type of scrutiny? Secondly it will have Richard Chandler as major shareholder and not only does he know this area his track record is pretty good.

 

If there was any kind of a Ponzi scheme I doubt they would be paying off loans. One would also suspect the quarterly report probably had PWC's blessings before it was released. So unless one believes that PWC and Ernst & Young were easily duped and that Wellington, Davis, and Chandler had a wish to throw away serious money, this company is going to be around for a while yet. Considering shares were $20-25 before the MW report and are now $7.00 solely due to the MW 'report', one would that even if there are some overstatements found that there is still upside potential. Just my opinion.

 

 

 

[twacowfca]

"If a tree falls in a forest and there is no one there to hear it, does it count?"

 

Only if it lands on Carson Block? :)

 

I would think that almost any company of this size and as spread out as is TRE, doing business in a relatively undeveloped country like China, would likely have some 'dirty laundry'. Things are not done quite the way they over there as they are here. That should be expected. But when this all shakes out I would think that the company will essentially have passed the test but with two major improvements. Firstly, and unlike many companies - weather its in China or North America - investors will have an in depth PWC report to tell them exactly what is going on within that company. How many companies anywhere will have undergone that type of scrutiny? Secondly it will have Richard Chandler as major shareholder and not only does he know this area his track record is pretty good.

 

If there was any kind of a Ponzi scheme I doubt they would be paying off loans. One would also suspect the quarterly report probably had PWC's blessings before it was released. So unless one believes that PWC and Ernst & Young were easily duped and that Wellington, Davis, and Chandler had a wish to throw away serious money, this company is going to be around for a while yet. Considering shares were $20-25 before the MW report and are now $7.00 solely due to the MW 'report', one would that even if there are some overstatements found that there is still upside potential. Just my opinion.

 

 

 

 

How do you explain the satellite photos taken at the expense of one of our board members showing the phony Potempkin Village of what was supposed to be their main operations?

[S2S]

How do you explain the satellite photos taken at the expense of one of our board members showing the phony Potempkin Village of what was supposed to be their main operations?

I'm not one who cares to defend TRE but the impressive work member niels12think concerns another Chinese RTO stock, Orient Paper (ONP), which many bulls like to bandy about as the one example of a Carson Block-shorted stock that is not in shambles.

[Guest Hester]

 

If a tree falls in a forest and there is no one there to hear it, does it count?

 

 

Good one.

 

June 3rd quote from management.

 

"Let me say clearly that the allegations contained in this report are inaccurate and unfounded."

 

Boy it takes a long time to review unfounded claims these days.

 

I've been wondering who they'd have on the CC asking questions after they lost most of the sell side bulls. I was holding out hope we would hear a discussion between management and a skeptic. They're one step ahead of me, no conference call.

[cwericb]

“How do you explain the satellite photos taken at the expense of one of our board members showing the phony Potempkin Village of what was supposed to be their main operations?”

 

I don’t.

 

I’m no expert on Sino nor do I profess to be, nor do I defend them nor make excuses for them. I simply think there is a very good chance that the company is worth more than $1-3 a share. If I am wrong I am probably in good company. Richard Chandler has paid an average of somewhere around $7 per share for nearly 20% of the company and may be seeking control. Even if there is major fraud, I would suspect that Chandler still sees this as a way to pick up this company at a bargain price.

 

(Re Satellite photos - Are you sure that those photos were pertaining to TRE and not to ONP?)

 

 

“They're one step ahead of me, no conference call.”

 

There has been a number of suggestions like this that seem to be rather naive. It is like the twisted accusation that Sino cancelled the analysts tour because they had something to hide when it was the analysts who asked for the tour to be postponed. By the way I now see that it has been announced that the tour will be back on when the PWC report is issued, which seems to make sense to me.  

 

Did anyone seriously think for one minute that there would be a conference call? There is a pending lawsuit and a detailed audit being conducted by PWC surely mamagementy is in no position to be answering questions at this point and I would imagine that they were told to keep quiet.

 

“Boy it takes a long time to review unfounded claims these days.”

 

You wouldn’t have shorted this stock now would you?

 

 

[twacowfca]

“How do you explain the satellite photos taken at the expense of one of our board members showing the phony Potempkin Village of what was supposed to be their main operations?”

 

I don’t.

 

I’m no expert on Sino nor do I profess to be, nor do I defend them nor make excuses for them. I simply think there is a very good chance that the company is worth more than $1-3 a share. If I am wrong I am probably in good company. Richard Chandler has paid an average of somewhere around $7 per share for nearly 20% of the company and may be seeking control. Even if there is major fraud, I would suspect that Chandler still sees this as a way to pick up this company at a bargain price.

 

(Re Satellite photos - Are you sure that those photos were pertaining to TRE and not to ONP?)

 

 

“They're one step ahead of me, no conference call.”

 

There has been a number of suggestions like this that seem to be rather naive. It is like the twisted accusation that Sino cancelled the analysts tour because they had something to hide when it was the analysts who asked for the tour to be postponed. By the way I now see that it has been announced that the tour will be back on when the PWC report is issued, which seems to make sense to me.  

 

Did anyone seriously think for one minute that there would be a conference call? There is a pending lawsuit and a detailed audit being conducted by PWC surely mamagementy is in no position to be answering questions at this point and I would imagine that they were told to keep quiet.

 

“Boy it takes a long time to review unfounded claims these days.”

 

You wouldn’t have shorted this stock now would you?

 

 

 

Nope,  I never go short except rarely on an arbitrage.  It's disgusting to see something that has fraud written all over it being touted over and over again on our board after good advice that the thread should be dropped.

[given2invest]

Nope,  I never go short except rarely on an arbitrage.  It's disgusting to see something that has fraud written all over it being touted over and over again on our board after good advice that the thread should be dropped.

 

Couldn't agree more.  I'm getting pretty sick of cwericb's bumps talking about how great his TRE bottom call has been.  Let's just let this one die till the audit comes out.  Nobody is short it and one guy is long it.  Who cares.

 

 

[Guest Hester]

I agree let's drop it until the independant report.

 

I'm not short and couldn't be if I wanted to. The shares are very difficult to borrow, so I doubt any one else here is short.

[cwericb]

"It's disgusting to see something that has fraud written all over it being touted over and over again on our board after good advice that the thread should be dropped."

 

 

1) With all due respect, who appointed you three or four guys to decide what threads are acceptable on this board. There has been three of four threads on TRE and this one alone has had over 13,000 views. Personally I would think members of this board are probably intelligent enough to decide which threads they read and which they do not.

 

2) You seem very sure of your position, what if you are wrong?

 

3) Aside from the MW report - why do you say TRE has fraud written all over it? What other information are you basing your stand on?

 

4)  If you are relying on Carson Block for your information you might want to check out his background a little more closely. And you might note that even he has changed his accusations of fraud and Ponzi scheme to an “overstatement” - that’s quite a change.

 

5)Who has ever 'touted' TRE? If you are suggesting that I have than you have your information wrong. I stated some time ago that I wouldn’t be surprised if TRE was probably worth more than a couple of bucks. Its been at $6-7 for some time and, in fact, held up very well while everything else tanked. However, it could go either way and like every other share purchase it is a bit of a gamble.

 

One of the biggest hurdles that TRE faces now is NOT the damage that fraud has done but the damage the ACCUSATIONS of fraud has done to the company and its ability to obtain financing. When people say things like TRE “has fraud written all over it’ when they really have no proof of that and they pronounce their opinion as being a fact, they become part of  the problem.

 

“I'm getting pretty sick of cwericb's bumps talking about how great his TRE bottom call has been.”

 

I beg your pardon, but would you like to back that up? I have never once said anything about that and this is a reflection of some of the twisted comments that have appeared here. Today I simply posted some pertinent news regarding the Q2 results and the PWC report. As far as “bumps” are concerned I have only responded to some mis-information.

 

 

 

 

[given2invest]

Um, you've posted repeatedly bragging about your amazing well timed purchases and how you wish you bought more after its bounced 10, 20 , 30%.  Most of those posts were weeks or months ago.  I have no desire to go back through the many threads and find it.  You definitely have a bone to pick with the many people on here that have urged caution even though most (all?) have no horse in the race. 

 

I do wish you best on your investment.  I have no stake in TRE. 

 

 

 

[given2invest]

Eh, why not:

 

Today: 

TRE is presently over $7.00.

  Thanks for the updated price, I took this as a "SEE!"

 

July 21: 

Until relative recently I had never held shares in TRE. I did, however, pick up a small amount under $3.00 - which look pretty good at this point. (And FYI I have owned FFH for years before you joined this board)

  Great purchase! 

 

July 5: 

I have been saying that I believe that there is a reasonable chance that there is some value in TRE, but I certainly would not guarantee that. Any time you buy any company, there is a certain amount of risk involved. It is a balance of risk vs reward. There may be high risk involved here but also the potential of a good reward. Right about now as the stock is pushing towards $5.00, I'm wishing I had purchased some in the $1.30 - $1.50 range.

 

June 9: 

If I had bought TRE at $18 last week and had to sell this week for $5 I wouldn't be a happy camper especially if I later found that report to have been wrong and created to try to destroy the company. If the company later recovered it wouldn't help me much. However the reality is that I bought a few shares in the $3.90's a couple of days ago and so far, so good.

 

And so on...

 

You have bought a lot of TRE.  You wish you bought more.  I hope it goes back to 20!  Let's just wait till we get some real news before we declare victory.  :)

[FFHWatcher]

I have noticed that as the price of TRE has rebounded, it's opponents have become more irritated using emotional words such as 'It's disgusting...' and 'I'm pretty sick of...' 

 

I don't understand how people who say they have no vested interest get so emotional (the words 'disgusting' and 'pretty sick of' suggest pretty strong emotions) about a stock?  I don't even get that emotional about things I own, let alone things I don't own.  That does not make sense.  Something isn't right here.

 

I don't understand how you few posters are so absolutely certain that TRE is a fraud?  You don't have any more information than anyone else.  I understand that you obviously FEEL strongly that it is fraud and CWERICB is taking the brunt of your combined arrogance.  There are many other experts looking at the same information and making completely different conclusions.  Just because they are smart (perhaps smarter than many here) and have more resources (many more resources than most here) doesn't make them right either. 

 

CWERICB seems to be pretty clear that he is saying that it is his opinion that TRE is not a complete fraud and is worth more than $3-7/share, and he is willing to put his money where his mouth is.  You few are basically saying that it is NOT your OPINION but it is a virtual FACT that TRE is a fraud. That seems like arrogance to me and I find it unusual.  I am sure there isn't any collusion happening here but certainly unusual behavior.  Maybe everyone is feeling philanthropic and are here to ensure CWERICB doesn't lose all his money?  That was likely Blocks primary purpose too.  If it is a Fraud, congrats to Block.  If it is worth more than $3-7, than congrats to CWERICB.  Let's shut up and wait for the PWC report but I certainly don't mind hearing that CWERICB is making money.  Who minds hearing that another person is making money?