Myth465 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I dont think they need to provide more detail. They give alot of details in the rolling PPT updates. Perhaps just different styles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jouni1 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 any fresh thoughts on leucadia? seems that it could be cheap here. jefferies will probably have a great year. i also like the portfolio now. good, basic businesses that might benefit from being part of the group (access to capital etc). i think handler might be the real thing. seems humble (for a banker) and i have a feeling he's going to be in the billionaire club when he's done with banking. he gets paid a lot but he is the man to run this. also holds a quarter billion worth of stock. handler said he's going to be opportunistic with buybacks, but having seen none probably means: 1) it's not cheap 2) there's better places to put the money (garcadia, berkadia?) or 3) he doesn't want to do a possibly "overpriced" buyback so soon after the merger, as if to not give a bad impression i like it at these prices, even though i sold mine for a bit less. it would just be so easy to start buying if they were doing buybacks. it just feels like the market hates it now, and it might go to 0.6x book on some bad news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefatbaboon Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I think the options you are looking at are old Jefferies options that are now based on .81 of a LUK share [81 shares per contract], that's why the pricing looks odd. LUK2 vs LUK. http://www.cboe.com/publish/TTStockSM/13-086.pdf http://www.ise.com/assets/documents/optionsExchange/productNotices/equity_corp_actions/2013/2013-026$Jefferies_Group_Inc_(JEF)_-_Merger_With_Leucadia_National_Corporation_(LUK)$20130228.pdf Sorry, should have checked the thread. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I think many investors have a misperception about stock buybacks. Buybacks have many motives and purposes but one that is seldom spoken about is the purpose of covering up inability to grow and poor returns on investment. Inability to grow, in turn, impacts valuations and prospects. Therefore a distinction should be made between returning money to shareholders and opportunity. They are inversely related. I've seen several financial firms buy back stock to mask the fact that they aren't able to find opportunities to reinvest at a decent return. I at least applaud LUK for not doing that. The financial sector has provided poor returns in the last few years (look at JPM and GS) but that can quickly change. This chart suggests a substantial opportunity - http://lakecharlescleanenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/LCCE-Timeline.jpg I expect an announcement sometime this year on the board of directors signing off on this project. I have seen estimates that this business can generate $200-$400 million per year in income. At the low end, on an equity investment of $500 million, is a 40% ROI. I don't think the market is pricing in the value of this project at all. It could be worth $2-3 billion or about $6-8 per Leucadia share. Likewise, the carrying book value of Garcadia & Berkadia underestimates their current earning power, although National Beef's carrying value may overestimate it's earning power at the moment. Linkem is also an interesting animal. It very well could see an IPO and is growing fast. Tangentially related, Greenspan's new book, 'The map and the territory' is an excellent read. It tries to answer the question of why there is a hesitancy to invest in long-lived assets and he argues that the uncertainty of social security liabilities and future tax rates is causing companies to build up cash and be fearful to invest in these long-range projects. This has a host of implications for unleashing some inflation. He also makes the interesting comment that we are not in a bubble because there is still substantial uncertainty and a prerequisite for bubble formation is a long period of relative calm and stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jouni1 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 yeah lake charles and a year after that hopefully oregon lng export build starting up. it's going to be huge for the company. even without the new facilities, i think it could be a decent investment at these prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefatbaboon Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Any recommendations regarding how we should be calculating book value? There's $1.7bn of goodwill from the JEF acquisition - you leave that it or take it out? Also, I guess we have to adjust shares outstanding for the 14m odd RSUs? They're all non-pay as far as I can tell so that's pure dilution with no cash offset. I'd be interested in thoughts on how JEF is performing. Looking at last year if I back out the gains from Harbinger, Knight, and acquisition accounting debt premiums, they scarcely seem to have made any money at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefatbaboon Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/wall-streeter-sues-view-blocking-rooftop-construction-article-1.1300836 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LC Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Poor baby :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racemize Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 10-Q is out: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/leucadia-national-corporation-announces-first-130600380.html http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/96223/000009622314000016/lnc1stqtr2014form10q.htm I previously thought we'd get some decent earnings from Jefferies (on a per share basis), but earnings and growth in BVPS have been pretty low over the last year. Hopefully they will find some good use for the capital... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcliu Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I thought Jefferies is actually doing pretty well. $200M before tax is pretty good results in this environment. The beef business is really dragging down results. I wish there's more disclosure on how they're planning to turn National Beef around.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OracleofCarolina Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/96223/000119312514195955/d728050dex99.htm Slides for today's annual meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ajc Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/96223/000119312514195955/d728050dex99.htm Slides for today's annual meeting. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 They seem to be getting active. They own about a half billion of Harbinger. KCG was not mentioned in the slides, probably cause it's held by Jefferies Group subsidiary but they own about 20% of that. I see at least 1 billion of new investments. Expect Lake Charles announcement this year regarding commencement of construction and final funding as per http://lakecharlescleanenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/LCCE-Timeline.jpg . I estimate this project is worth at least 2-3 billion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiddman Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 They show HomeFed with a value of $226 million. They own 9.4 million shares, so that is about $24/share. HOFD is currently at $51/sh making their stake worth more like $479 million, unless I'm missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiddman Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I count $660M of new investments since March 2013 not including KCG. Wonder why they didn't mention KCG? They mention other new investments as small as $5M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpioncapital Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 It's tucked away in Jefferies trading assets - "We have elected the fair value option for Jefferies investment in Knight Capital Group, Inc., acquired by Jefferies during 2012. On July 1, 2013, Knight Capital completed its previously announced merger with GETCO Holding Company, LLC; as a result KCG Holdings, Inc. became the new public parent of both entities. Although no longer subject to the equity method of accounting, KCG Holdings continues to be accounted for at fair value consistent with the election made for all of Jefferies trading assets. The change in the fair value of this investment was $(1.0) million for the three months ended March 31, 2014." Jefferies owns 22.5m shares or 19.6% of KCG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OracleofCarolina Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I realize the Juneau Energy is tiny, but kind of neat they are working with Juneau. I use to follow/own Contango and Juneau was Ken Peak's partner in that company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwave Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I realize the Juneau Energy is tiny, but kind of neat they are working with Juneau. I use to follow/own Contango and Juneau was Ken Peak's partner in that company. ---------------- Just noticed at least one “insider “ is confident that Leucadia is a good value at current prices. Francisco Borges ( Director) bought 10,000 shares at $25.58 totaling $ 255,777 today (May 14 , 2014) . greenwave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenville Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I realize the Juneau Energy is tiny, but kind of neat they are working with Juneau. I use to follow/own Contango and Juneau was Ken Peak's partner in that company. ---------------- Just noticed at least one “insider “ is confident that Leucadia is a good value at current prices. Francisco Borges ( Director) bought 10,000 shares at $25.58 totaling $ 255,777 today (May 14 , 2014) . greenwave Good catch! Thanks for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepupil Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Some recent things: LUK tried to buy Depfa http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/13/idUSWEB00N5N20140513 Jana Partners put 2.5% of their portfolio in LUK, 7.7MM shares, which makes them the 2nd largest non-indexer shareholder. Haven't really seen any commentary in press and I don't think Jana has said anything publicly. http://whalewisdom.com/stock/luk Don't think activism is necessary here, but I wouldn't mind them getting bigger in LUK and ruffling some feathers (HOFD spin/share swap, Berkadia monetization, something to highlight the energy assets/optionality there). But I think Rosenstein is probably just in this as an OPMI. Anyways, LUK looks cheap here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fareastwarriors Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 pink slime is back, we like our low price ground beef too much http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303749904579579991127674958 'Pink Slime' Makes Comeback as Beef Prices Spike Surging U.S. Beef Prices Revive Ingredient That Nearly Disappeared Two Years Ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ajc Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Berkadia Commercial Mortgage LLC, the joint venture of Berkshire Hathaway Inc. (BRK/A) and Leucadia National Corp. (LUK), added $2 billion to its loan-servicing portfolio with the purchase of Phoenix-based Keystone Commercial Capital. Keystone, with mortgage-banking offices in Boston and San Diego as well as Phoenix, will continue to be overseen by co-founder and managing partner Charlie Williams, Berkadia said today in a statement. Berkadia picks up 16 employees with the purchase. “Berkadia has invested significant time in developing relationships -- particularly with life-insurance companies -- to expand our financing capabilities,” Ernie Katai, head of production, said in the statement. “This demonstrates our continued commitment to that expansion.” Berkadia, the third-largest U.S. commercial and multifamily mortgage servicer, had a portfolio of more than $229 billion as of March 31, according to the statement. Servicers collect payments from borrowers and pass them on to mortgage lenders or investors, minus fees. They can also handle foreclosures when borrowers don’t pay. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-28/berkadia-boosts-loan-servicing-by-2-billion-with-deal.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racemize Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 from Tweedy's last AR: We also pared back our positions in Google, Henkel, Leucadia, Unifirst, Wal-Mart, and Sysco, all of which were trading at, or getting nearer to, estimated intrinsic value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sportgamma Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 from Tweedy's last AR: We also pared back our positions in Google, Henkel, Leucadia, Unifirst, Wal-Mart, and Sysco, all of which were trading at, or getting nearer to, estimated intrinsic value. I don´t really get that...LUK went as high as 32 around the merger, now they are around 25.60 and I for one am pretty satisfied with what they have been doing in the mean time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racemize Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I thought it was a bit strange as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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