T-bone1 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 http://www.zerohedge.com/news/so-much-value-investing-whitney-tilson-plunges-133-august-down-mass-redemption-inducing-211-ytd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I suspect they sold FFH simply because there were bargains to be had and Fairfax's stock didn't move around much at the time. I think Zerohedge is blowing the loss out of proportion. It's not any worse than Berkowitz, and they got pummelled because they probably had little cash as they short. The T2 fund actually has a pretty good record, so I suspect if any of their partners pull capital, it will probably be a mistake. There doesn't seem to be anything in their portfolio that looks worrisome. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lessthaniv Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 As much as I dislike Tilson ... I did the same thing. I took some profits in my FFH position and moved to what I perceive to be better opportunities. I'll be back though. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsad Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 As much as I dislike Tilson ... I did the same thing. I took some profits in my FFH position and moved to what I perceive to be better opportunities. I'll be back though. ;D That only makes sense...the FFH position strategy, not the dislike Tilson part. ;D Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sswan11 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Covered his MBIA short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berkshiremystery Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Guys & dolls,... this seems to me like a Gödel contradiction, i.e. Tilson latest letter to partners vs his quarterly 13F filings to the SEC. I haven't followed Tilson lately, but I just looked 5 minutes ago into his last 13F filings @ the EDGAR database. I can't see there in last quarters any ffh holdings. ::) Thus to me it seems like T2 Partners rather owned them temporally inbetween, or he might have been trading them in and out in the recent market volatility. ;) This seems to me not to be value investing, rather pure Vegas like speculation about short term swings. :o Cheers! http://holdings.nasdaq.com/asp/OwnerPortfolio.asp?FormType=OwnerPortfolio&CIK=0001327388&HolderName=T2+PARTNERS+MANAGEMENT%2C+LP http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?action=getcompany&CIK=0001327388&owner=exclude&count=40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coc Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Guys & dolls,... this seems to me like a Gödel contradiction, i.e. Tilson latest letter to partners vs his quarterly 13F filings to the SEC. I haven't followed Tilson lately, but I just looked 5 minutes ago into his last 13F filings @ the EDGAR database. I can't see there in last quarters any ffh holdings. ::) Thus to my it seems like T2 Partners rather owned them temporally inbetween, or he might have been trading them in and out in the recent market volatility. ;) This seems to me not to be value investing, rather pure Vegas like speculation about short term swings. :o Cheers! http://holdings.nasdaq.com/asp/OwnerPortfolio.asp?FormType=OwnerPortfolio&CIK=0001327388&HolderName=T2+PARTNERS+MANAGEMENT%2C+LP http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?action=getcompany&CIK=0001327388&owner=exclude&count=40 Probably owned it on the TSE, wouldn't be reported in his 13F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berkshiremystery Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Guys & dolls,... this seems to me like a Gödel contradiction, i.e. Tilson latest letter to partners vs his quarterly 13F filings to the SEC. I haven't followed Tilson lately, but I just looked 5 minutes ago into his last 13F filings @ the EDGAR database. I can't see there in last quarters any ffh holdings. ::) Thus to me it seems like T2 Partners rather owned them temporally inbetween, or he might have been trading them in and out in the recent market volatility. ;) This seems to me not to be value investing, rather pure Vegas like speculation about short term swings. :o Cheers! http://holdings.nasdaq.com/asp/OwnerPortfolio.asp?FormType=OwnerPortfolio&CIK=0001327388&HolderName=T2+PARTNERS+MANAGEMENT%2C+LP http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?action=getcompany&CIK=0001327388&owner=exclude&count=40 Probably owned it on the TSE, wouldn't be reported in his 13F. Well, Í'm not sure about the TSE or american pink sheet listings. I studied his 13F filings minutes ago. Last time I saw him holding them in 3rd qtr 2010. 2011-08-15 - 13F-HR for 2nd Qtr 2011 Report for the Calendar Year or Quarter Ended: June 30, 2011 http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1327388/000139834411001849/fp0003288_13fhr.txt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2011-05-11 - 13F-HR for 1st Qtr 2011 Report for the Calendar Year or Quarter Ended: March 31, 2011 http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1327388/000139834411001100/fp0002918_13fhr.txt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2011-02-14 - 13F-HR for 4th Qtr 2010 Report for the Calendar Year or Quarter Ended: December 31, 2010 http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1327388/000139834411000370/fp0002541_13fhr.txt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2010-11-15 - 13F-HR for 3rd Qtr 2010 <----------- Report for the Calendar Year or Quarter Ended: September 30, 2010 http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1327388/000139834410001467/fp0002250_13fhr.txt ---------------- Anyway, I should go to bed. I'm already late and have to go tomorrow to some exhibition. --- Night folks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moore_capital54 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I have respect for Tilson as he does organize the VIC, and I attend at least one event every year. That being said I think Tilson is not a great investor at all. His track record speaks for itself. And even moreso due to the type of access he has to some of the greatest players in the game, he is one of Ackman's best friend and can't seem to get even his piggy back trades right. I am not impressed with Mr. Tilson. I would take Pabrai over him any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lessthaniv Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 berkshiremystery, The 13f form is only a list of "13f securities". That's a defined term with the SEC. It should not be mistaken for a complete listing of an institutional managers holdings and quite frankly I believe that's a very common mistake. Currently, Fairfax Financial is not a 13F security. Generally, a 13F security is one of the following; exchange-traded (e.g., NYSE, AMEX) or NASDAQ-quoted stocks, equity options and warrants, shares of closed-end investment companies, and certain convertible debt securities. Shares of open-end investment companies, i.e., mutual funds, are not included and, therefore, will not be listed on Form 13F. Shares of exchange-traded funds ("ETFs"), however, are on the Official List and should be reported. You can review the official list through the following link. If you pull up the list and do a search in the pdf document for Fairfax you'll find it returns nothing ... Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packer16 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I am feeling the same squeeze with performance lagging the market (S&P 500) by 260 bp (down 5.6% YTD) when historically I have beat the benchmark by 18% over 10-yrs and 22% over 5 years at mid-year. I guess this reflects that small value stocks have had a YTD performance of -9.0%. Packer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Partner24 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone. Blaise Pascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biaggio Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone. Blaise Pascal Thanks for the reminder. I have never been any good at trading in + out of things. With my luck, the minute I sell FFH, it will take off + that would be miserable. I figure Tilson and other money managers,hedge funds, etc have different pressures that me as a small player does not have to worry about. I am happy having the fellas at FFH manage money as they see fit for me as a shareholder vs selling FFH to buy something that is cheaper (Like selling your Ferrari to buy 10 used VW's because they are a good deal...incidently I personally own VW no Ferrari for me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbitisrich Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 There isn't enough information in the sale to make an informed judgement of Tilson. You would have to look at the sale + use of proceeds. From the letter, it looks like he sold an insurance company at 1.1X book to buy things that looked cheaper in his opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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